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LakerDYnasty72
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
Randle is so far ahead of where Green was at 22 that it isn't even close. |
It's not where Randle is compared to Green at 22. It's how far he has to go to get to Green now. Green is a top 5 F/C, I'm not sure if Randle will ever peak like Green but its worth taking another season to figure out what we have in Randle. |
Where Randle is now is the point. It's the only basis we have for evaluating where he's going. You said it's how far he has to get to Green now. Well, when Randle gets to where Green is now, Green, you would think, will have improved from now, so that Randle will still need to keep improving, as Green will.
The only way we know that he'll improve is from what he's doing now, like averaging a double-double at 20 years of age. Green didn't do that at 20. That's why the statement that Randle is: "so far ahead of where Green was at 22 that it isn't even close" was made.
It's a valid statement. |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: |
Where Randle is now is the point. It's the only basis we have for evaluating where he's going. You said it's how far he has to get to Green now. Well, when Randle gets to where Green is now, Green, you would think, will have improved from now, so that Randle will still need to keep improving, as Green will.
The only way we know that he'll improve is from what he's doing now, like averaging a double-double at 20 years of age. Green didn't do that at 20. That's why the statement that Randle is: "so far ahead of where Green was at 22 that it isn't even close" was made.
It's a valid statement. |
Randle is better than Green at 22. That is a positive sign. The only difference is when Green turned 24 he became a top 10 Player. Now imo he is one of the premier players of his generation an icon for the modern forward.
It's not impossible for Randle to get there but he has a long way to go where most young promising prospects never become superstars.
All that said he has improved year after year and that's all you can ask for.
The Lakers are looking to reload in 2018 and Randle might be part of the plans. If he is we have to stretch/trade deng and trade Clarkson. Which isn't all that bad of a plan I'm not against him staying but I thinks its going to be a wild ride in the summer of 2018 and I could see him in another jersey. |
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yinoma2001
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22
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Great article yinomes. It echoes what many of us have been saying. Julius has been improving a lot. It continues next year for him look out NBA and the Lakers will find a way to keep him with the two max plan |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't get the videos but thanks for linking. Randle and Lopez will form a good duo. Being statically compared to Greek Freak, KD, Lebron and Harden is impressive. The kid is just finding his game, year 3 will be more impressive.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | There are a lot of things he can improve with just effort and conditioning.
Too many times he would jog back; he can and should improve that with better conditioning.
I think at times he also expended too much on the offensive end, usually on ISOs. I think we have better overall weapons this year (compared to being saddled with guys like Moz/Deng last year) and he can conserve energy on that end.
Defensively, there is no reason he can't be at least an average NBA defender. Incredibly strong, quick and nimble. It's effort and focus that needs to be improved.
So he really has all the tools to do it. Just needs to do it. |
Hopefully keeping his weight down about 10-12lbs from where he was a lot of last year, should help. He's gone into both of his seasons around 245, but got up to 256 last year. Now he says he's about 240... just stay below 245 |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | There are a lot of things he can improve with just effort and conditioning.
Too many times he would jog back; he can and should improve that with better conditioning.
I think at times he also expended too much on the offensive end, usually on ISOs. I think we have better overall weapons this year (compared to being saddled with guys like Moz/Deng last year) and he can conserve energy on that end.
Defensively, there is no reason he can't be at least an average NBA defender. Incredibly strong, quick and nimble. It's effort and focus that needs to be improved.
So he really has all the tools to do it. Just needs to do it. |
Hopefully keeping his weight down about 10-12lbs from where he was a lot of last year, should help. He's gone into both of his seasons around 245, but got up to 256 last year. Now he says he's about 240... just stay below 245 |
Randle must become more than just a bruising power forward. Hopefully he has added some things to his offensive game because it is too predictable and his range is, most likely, still limited.
With his new conditioning Julius should be able to take full advantage of his quickness a lot more against bigger 4's and 5's. Defensively he needs to put forth more effort and also use his quickness. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | There are a lot of things he can improve with just effort and conditioning.
Too many times he would jog back; he can and should improve that with better conditioning.
I think at times he also expended too much on the offensive end, usually on ISOs. I think we have better overall weapons this year (compared to being saddled with guys like Moz/Deng last year) and he can conserve energy on that end.
Defensively, there is no reason he can't be at least an average NBA defender. Incredibly strong, quick and nimble. It's effort and focus that needs to be improved.
So he really has all the tools to do it. Just needs to do it. |
Hopefully keeping his weight down about 10-12lbs from where he was a lot of last year, should help. He's gone into both of his seasons around 245, but got up to 256 last year. Now he says he's about 240... just stay below 245 |
He said maintaining was the most important part, by doing the right things. I agree with him there.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid!
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pio2u
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid! |
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rock0100
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid! |
What if shedding Deng/Clarkson costs us a 1st and Kuzma? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid! |
What if shedding Deng/Clarkson costs us a 1st and Kuzma? |
My calculations show that if you trade JC out and stretch Deng, we will not have enough for a LBJ/PG13 max deal (we would have about 58m in cap space; need 65-66m).
If JC/Deng are traded out, we would have above 65m.
Yeah, it would cost us at least 1 1st, maybe 2. If Jules was balling out so well that it's worth it, then I'm sure they'll consider the cost.
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rock0100
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I agree with you. If Julius is performing well, you do sacrifice any bench player to secure a starting 5 of Lonzo, PG13, Ingram, Bron and Julius or Lonzo, PG13, Ingram, Julius and Cousins.
The first is obviously the best option and a true positionless lineup, but the 2nd is very formidable and would leave us an extra $6 million in cap. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Good analysis of pros/cons of Jules from the man Jonathan Tjarks:
| Quote: | All those flashy plays, though, haven’t helped the Lakers much. Los Angeles has been one of the worst teams in the NBA since Randle came into the league, and he is a big reason why. The Lakers had a net rating of minus-10.2 when he was on the floor last season, the worst of any of their rotation players, and a net rating of minus-3.5 when he was off, the best mark for anyone on their roster. Randle’s unique skill set is the worst of both worlds: It’s difficult to build a lineup around a 4 with his strengths, and it’s almost impossible to hide his weaknesses. He can’t shoot to save his life, and he gets roasted on defense. Nance is a better defender and Kuzma is a better shooter: While they may not have Randle’s upside, they don’t have his downsides either.
There was hope Randle could develop a jumper in the NBA, but it hasn’t happened yet. While he’s a decent free throw shooter (a career 71.7 percent from the charity stripe on 3.6 attempts per game), his numbers from the field are abysmal: He shot 31.8 percent on 66 attempts from 16–24 feet last year, and he’s 27-of-99 (27.3 percent) in his career from 3. A player with Randle’s handle and speed would be practically unguardable if defenders had to respect his shot. Instead, they can just back off and force him to come into them. He’s not long enough to power through a pure athlete at the 4 like Al-Farouq Aminu.
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| Quote: | | And while his jumper may not be correctable, at least in the short term, his defensive effort is. Like most young scorers, Randle never had to expend much energy defensively in his developmental years, and could always count on his athleticism to bail him out when necessary. He will never be a good shot-blocker in the NBA, but his strength and quickness means he could be an effective positional defender who can switch screens and be a cog in a good defense. However, that means Randle has to keep his head up and understand what his responsibilities are. Count the errors in this sequence: He makes a lazy closeout on Zach Randolph, lets him drive in a straight line and doesn’t re-route him, and then falls for a pump-fake and gives up an open look at the rim |
| Quote: | The days of the Lakers letting Randle play through his mistakes are
over. They don’t have a first-round pick this season, and they are trying to be good enough to lure elite free agents like LeBron James and Paul George next summer. Randle will have to earn his minutes. The good news is newly acquired center Brook Lopez could be the perfect frontcourt partner for him. Lopez turned himself into a 3-point shooter last season (shooting 34.6 percent from 3 on 5.2 attempts per game), which should create driving lanes for Randle in the half court. Lopez’s sheer size (7 feet and 275 pounds) means he will be more of a deterrent at the front of the rim than anyone Randle has played with. If Lopez can handle the rim protection, Randle is strong enough to keep players from establishing deep position on him and quick enough to stay in front of them on the perimeter. It’s now or never for Randle. If he can’t succeed playing next to Lopez, he’s going to end up backing him up |
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/8/28/16213130/nba-power-forwards-harrison-barnes-julius-randle-frank-kaminsky
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22
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Boy am I glad that guy isn't a decision maker on the Lakers lol. |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: |
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They still have Randle's hair the same as when he was a rookie in 2k18 :/
Who is responsible for updating the player models for each team? How do you miss such an obvious detail like this 2 years in a row? |
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rock0100
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | They still have Randle's hair the same as when he was a rookie in 2k18 :/
Who is responsible for updating the player models for each team? How do you miss such an obvious detail like this 2 years in a row? |
What is his rating? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid! |
What if shedding Deng/Clarkson costs us a 1st and Kuzma? |
You have to pay to play
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid! |
What if shedding Deng/Clarkson costs us a 1st and Kuzma? |
You have to pay to play |
And he has to play to get the pay...then the Lakers must pay to play.
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22
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | They still have Randle's hair the same as when he was a rookie in 2k18 :/
Who is responsible for updating the player models for each team? How do you miss such an obvious detail like this 2 years in a row? |
What is his rating? |
not sure, I'm guessing 78-80. But they had another trailer today with Kobe & KG as announcers and you could see Julius in a few shots. Still rookie hair smh |
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I really want to keep him in 2018. That would require trading Deng/JC outright for $0 back, and if we get LBJ/PG13, I think the numbers work that we can keep him.
Off ball defense.
Effort.
Shooting.
If he can improve noticeably in those 3 areas, he has a chance. Rooting for this kid! |
What if shedding Deng/Clarkson costs us a 1st and Kuzma? |
You have to pay to play |
And he has to play to get the pay...then the Lakers must pay to play. |
If FO is all in with 2 max and that deal is available, pretty sure they'll take it |
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NBALakerLegends
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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At this point, Randle is a taller version of Kenny Thomas. Their 3rd year numbers are remarkably similar, as are their games.
These are the areas in which some posters are expecting vast improvements from Randle this year so that he will become a max/near max player:
- 3-pt. shooting
- mid-range shooting
- off-hand finishing
- conditioning
- effort on both ends this
- defensive awareness
- defensive positioning
- offensive court awareness (no ball-stopping)
- off ball movement
- general BBall IQ
I don't think all of that improves over the course of one off season. I'd be satisfied if just the conditioning, effort and offensive awareness improved this year. My biggest disappointment regarding Randle last year was the huge decline in defensive rebounding rate. Even if he is a lackluster individual and team defender, securing the defensive rebound and limiting teams to one shot is a huge contribution.
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Both players would have thrived in a different era, and both illustrate how difficult it is to succeed at a high level with their profiles (tough defensive guard who can't shoot or play make/undersized rebounding PF who can't shoot or defend)
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | At this point, Randle is a taller version of Kenny Thomas. Their 3rd year numbers are remarkably similar, as are their games. |
I don't think their stats or upside are all that similar. Randle was better across the board aside from defensive stats, despite playing 6 less minutes per game, being two years younger, and missing his entire rookie season.
Thomas: 14.1 points (47.8% fg, 0% 3p, 66.4% ft), 7.2 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1.2 steals, 0.9 blocks in 34.5 minutes
Randle: 13.2 points (48.8% fg, 27% 3p, 72.3% ft), 8.6 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.5 blocks in 28.8 minutes
The third season was also Thomas' second best season of his entire career (he averaged 13.6/10.1 when he was 26).
Their per 36 stats that season:
Thomas: 14.7 points, 7.5 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.2 steals, 1 block
Randle: 16.5 points, 10.7 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks
Thomas only shot a higher percentage than Randle's shooting numbers last year once in his 11 year career (50.5% when he was 28). He never once averaged the number of rebounds that Randle averaged last season in what was essentially his rookie season. He only once surpassed Randle's rebounding numbers from last season (10.1 when he was 26). And Randle's 3.6 assists last season is far better than the the 2.1 that Thomas put up in his career assist year (at 27).
Last edited by J.C. Smith on Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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