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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
defense wrote:
MJST wrote:
defense wrote:
Quote:
Max level free agents in a "win now" mode aren't coming to wait for 3-4 seasons for Lonzo or BI to get to "that point". If that was the case, LeBron wouldn't have had Wiggins shipped off for Kevin Love.


And yet Lebron didn't ship out a very young Kyrie because he knew he could help him win a ring and he was right.


Kyrie was already a 20-22 ppg scorer by that time and had been in the league for 3 seasons. Neither Lonzo nor Ingram is in that position or at that point in their careers. So that comparison doesn't work.

The only young player we had that could even be considered close to that kind of breakthrough as a scorer THIS season is the one we sent to Brooklyn for Lopez.


Its not about 20 points per game. Its about understanding that they may have the tools to help win. As far as the stats go wait until the end of this season before you boldly declare that Ingram and Lonzo aren't good enough to help a team with Lebron and George.


And maybe they just didn't think Wiggins was very good. They did wait until he completed an underwhelming summer league before actually trading him. Would even the Cavs back then have traded Lonzo after the SPL he just had?


If it meant getting Lebron, yes.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Because our picks will be trash if we get our 2 max players.


Like the picks we sent away in Nash's deal.

Picks are a better asset than players in new CBA
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Because our picks will be trash if we get our 2 max players.


Like the picks we sent away in Nash's deal.

Picks are a better asset than players in new CBA


That's why it'll take more than 1 pick to get rid of Deng.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
nash wrote:


It is just a logical analysis considering all the variables.


Not really, there's a crap ton of assumptions and speculation in there lol


Paramount being the idea that Pelinka will be determining playing time.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
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Speaking of which, there's also going to be a team in Philadelphia, coincidentally in the East, that's likely going to make the Playoffs this year, and gonna have 61M in cap space available as well as LeBron James' protege whom he's spent the off-season working with.


They don't have 61m in cap space. That's been disproven. Are they not re-signing Embiid or Covington?

The reasons for LBJ leaving the Cavs for the Lakers has to do with other non-basketball reasons too. What do the 76ers offer? A cheesesteak empire for LBJ?


According to reports they are debating re-signing Covington or saving cap space. They are already in discussions with Embiid, the idea being a higher salary with less being guaranteed. The Lakers aren't the only team evaluating signing young players or going after FAs. And like the Lakers, they have some young players whose development could make them attractive to star FAs.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
2019 wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
Quick question: So if today,

the Chicago Bulls offered Wade, Bobby Portis for Randle, Deng and 2020 1st round pick do you do it? Throw in one of the second round picks they gave us last year (Calderon trade)


I think you have to. Sorry to lose Ju but Portis is a decent player and Wade would be a big addition. Move Nance to the starting 5 and hope for the best.

Clearling all that cap space would the hugeeeeee.


I just don't see why Chicago would encumber itself with 30m+ on Deng/Jules going forward (once Jules is extended).


They wouldn't, it is a preposterous idea.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Speaking of which, there's also going to be a team in Philadelphia, coincidentally in the East, that's likely going to make the Playoffs this year, and gonna have 61M in cap space available as well as LeBron James' protege whom he's spent the off-season working with.


They don't have 61m in cap space. That's been disproven. Are they not re-signing Embiid or Covington?

The reasons for LBJ leaving the Cavs for the Lakers has to do with other non-basketball reasons too. What do the 76ers offer? A cheesesteak empire for LBJ?


According to reports they are debating re-signing Covington or saving cap space. They are already in discussions with Embiid, the idea being a higher salary with less being guaranteed. The Lakers aren't the only team evaluating signing young players or going after FAs. And like the Lakers, they have some young players whose development could make them attractive to star FAs.


The point is they have a lot of money tied up to guys like Embiid/Covington and others. Is LBJ joining the 76ers sans Embiid/Covington?

And people discount the business reasons LBJ has to come to LA. Philly...yeah, he'd have competition for a new cheesesteak empire. Further, they won't have enough room for 2 max deals like the Lakers may.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject:

They may, just as the Lakers may.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
They may, just as the Lakers may.


I would argue that Embiid/Covington are far more "core" pieces than Deng/JC/Jules.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
22 wrote:
nash wrote:


It is just a logical analysis considering all the variables.


Not really, there's a crap ton of assumptions and speculation in there lol


Paramount being the idea that Pelinka will be determining playing time.


With all the due respect to your opinion, Pelinka, Magic and the coaching staff work together in day to day basis and I'll keep my opinion based in what they say.

I've said after several Magic/Pelinka interviews that I had the feeling that we were going to move two of our young players. One was moved and other was offered in more than one trade scenario.

Time will tell if those are crap ton of assumptions.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
22 wrote:
nash wrote:


It is just a logical analysis considering all the variables.


Not really, there's a crap ton of assumptions and speculation in there lol


Paramount being the idea that Pelinka will be determining playing time.


With all the due respect to your opinion, Pelinka, Magic and the coaching staff work together in day to day basis and I'll keep my opinion based in what they say.

I've said after several Magic/Pelinka interviews that I had the feeling that we were going to move two of our young players. One was moved and other was offered in more than one trade scenario.

Time will tell if those are crap ton of assumptions.


We know that 2 of Deng/JC/Jules will be gone. It's not that much of an assumption.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

We know that 2 of Deng/JC/Jules will be gone. It's not that much of an assumption.


And most agree that it is preferable to move Deng and Clarkson, but stretching Deng is not enough to sign LeBron + Max Player, we have to move him taking nothing in return, borderline impossible if you ask me.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

We know that 2 of Deng/JC/Jules will be gone. It's not that much of an assumption.


And most agree that it is preferable to move Deng and Clarkson, but stretching Deng is not enough to sign LeBron + Max Player, we have to move him taking nothing in return, borderline impossible if you ask me.


That's why trading Deng will require likely 2 1st rounders next year. If Jules plays well enough that they want to keep him, I think Jules > another late future 1st.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
defense wrote:
MJST wrote:
defense wrote:
Quote:
Max level free agents in a "win now" mode aren't coming to wait for 3-4 seasons for Lonzo or BI to get to "that point". If that was the case, LeBron wouldn't have had Wiggins shipped off for Kevin Love.


And yet Lebron didn't ship out a very young Kyrie because he knew he could help him win a ring and he was right.


Kyrie was already a 20-22 ppg scorer by that time and had been in the league for 3 seasons. Neither Lonzo nor Ingram is in that position or at that point in their careers. So that comparison doesn't work.

The only young player we had that could even be considered close to that kind of breakthrough as a scorer THIS season is the one we sent to Brooklyn for Lopez.


Its not about 20 points per game. Its about understanding that they may have the tools to help win. As far as the stats go wait until the end of this season before you boldly declare that Ingram and Lonzo aren't good enough to help a team with Lebron and George.


And maybe they just didn't think Wiggins was very good. They did wait until he completed an underwhelming summer league before actually trading him. Would even the Cavs back then have traded Lonzo after the SPL he just had?


If it meant getting Lebron, yes.


No, they already had Lebron.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
defense wrote:
MJST wrote:
defense wrote:
Quote:
Max level free agents in a "win now" mode aren't coming to wait for 3-4 seasons for Lonzo or BI to get to "that point". If that was the case, LeBron wouldn't have had Wiggins shipped off for Kevin Love.


And yet Lebron didn't ship out a very young Kyrie because he knew he could help him win a ring and he was right.


Kyrie was already a 20-22 ppg scorer by that time and had been in the league for 3 seasons. Neither Lonzo nor Ingram is in that position or at that point in their careers. So that comparison doesn't work.

The only young player we had that could even be considered close to that kind of breakthrough as a scorer THIS season is the one we sent to Brooklyn for Lopez.


Its not about 20 points per game. Its about understanding that they may have the tools to help win. As far as the stats go wait until the end of this season before you boldly declare that Ingram and Lonzo aren't good enough to help a team with Lebron and George.


And maybe they just didn't think Wiggins was very good. They did wait until he completed an underwhelming summer league before actually trading him. Would even the Cavs back then have traded Lonzo after the SPL he just had?


If it meant getting Lebron, yes.


No, they already had Lebron.


It was probably already established that to get LeBron they were going to be moving their Number 1 pick for a Superstar if they could land it.

If LeBron was patient then they'd have played that season with Wiggins and Kyrie and went after landing Kevin Love in the off-season when he was a free agent.

But I'm pretty sure it was an agreed upon thing that for LeBron to join they were gonna use the pick to land someone to make it another Big 3.

Which is why the trade rumors started up almost immediately after he got there and even during Summer League and carried on to that really awkward interview with Wiggins about it where Wiggins looked disappointed.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

Folks realize there is a LBJ fantasy thread elsewhere?
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
They may, just as the Lakers may.


I would argue that Embiid/Covington are far more "core" pieces than Deng/JC/Jules.


Embiid sure, just as Randle is one of our core pieces. JC and Covington less so.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
22 wrote:
nash wrote:


It is just a logical analysis considering all the variables.


Not really, there's a crap ton of assumptions and speculation in there lol


Paramount being the idea that Pelinka will be determining playing time.


With all the due respect to your opinion, Pelinka, Magic and the coaching staff work together in day to day basis and I'll keep my opinion based in what they say.

I've said after several Magic/Pelinka interviews that I had the feeling that we were going to move two of our young players. One was moved and other was offered in more than one trade scenario.

Time will tell if those are crap ton of assumptions.


That doesn't address my point, the coaching staff will determine who plays.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
They may, just as the Lakers may.


I would argue that Embiid/Covington are far more "core" pieces than Deng/JC/Jules.


Embiid sure, just as Randle is one of our core pieces. JC and Covington less so.


I think you seriously underestimate how valuable the 76ers view Covington. If you look at the advanced analytics he is up there in terms of 3/D forwards. I would argue he is the #2 priority behind re-signing Embiid.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

We know that 2 of Deng/JC/Jules will be gone. It's not that much of an assumption.


And most agree that it is preferable to move Deng and Clarkson, but stretching Deng is not enough to sign LeBron + Max Player, we have to move him taking nothing in return, borderline impossible if you ask me.


I agree, it is borderline impossible
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

That's why trading Deng will require likely 2 1st rounders next year. If Jules plays well enough that they want to keep him, I think Jules > another late future 1st.


That is why I told it is about logic.

Do you believe Randle in the end of his rookie deal has more value than two first round picks?

Do you think any GM would take Deng ahead of two first round picks?

I don't and I'd prefer to keep two first round picks than Clarkson and Randle considering the cap space situation and the flexibility going forward.

We are way deeper at the PF than we were at both guard positions when we moved Russell.

When I tell it would be great if Randle improves to the point he is perceived around the league as a prospect that you want to move a first round pick to have it means that moving him we are going to save 3 first round picks, 2 that we may need to move Deng and one more that we can potentially get for him.

I've heard Pelinka telling they are confident that we can get a late pick for Clarkson. If we can move him and Randle for one protected pick each we have great flexibility and a ton of desirable assets going forward, we can turn two superstar plan in three superstar plan with 4 first round picks to include in any deal.

I'd really prefer to keep picks at this point than send a couple of picks away to move Deng keeping Clarkson or Randle, two players that are good, but far from special.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
They may, just as the Lakers may.


I would argue that Embiid/Covington are far more "core" pieces than Deng/JC/Jules.


Embiid sure, just as Randle is one of our core pieces. JC and Covington less so.


I think you seriously underestimate how valuable the 76ers view Covington. If you look at the advanced analytics he is up there in terms of 3/D forwards. I would argue he is the #2 priority behind re-signing Embiid.


Interesting then that there are reports that they are debating whether to re-sign him or use that cap space for a FA. You could be right, but there are other reports out there. Reportedly the #1 priority is chasing a star FA or two.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Folks realize there is a LBJ fantasy thread elsewhere?


Hmm let's turn it back around to Randle... with seven degrees of Julius Randle


Julius Randle played all 5 positions in high school

Thus was touted as one of the better up and coming point forwards in the league

drawing comparisons to

LeBron James!!

Who Coach K compared
Julius Randle to!

True story as well, Coach K actually described the role he had for him at Duke being that of a point forward and essentially using him the way they'd used LeBron on Team USA.

It's very fortunate that he went to Kentucky, because if Coach K had kept Randle on the path of his style in high school and worked on his point forward game as a primary role at Duke alongside Jabari Parker at the 3, then Randle may not have fallen to us at 7.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
They may, just as the Lakers may.


I would argue that Embiid/Covington are far more "core" pieces than Deng/JC/Jules.


Embiid sure, just as Randle is one of our core pieces. JC and Covington less so.


I think you seriously underestimate how valuable the 76ers view Covington. If you look at the advanced analytics he is up there in terms of 3/D forwards. I would argue he is the #2 priority behind re-signing Embiid.


Interesting then that there are reports that they are debating whether to re-sign him or use that cap space for a FA. You could be right, but there are other reports out there. Reportedly the #1 priority is chasing a star FA or two.


I work near the Philly market so I'm pretty up to speed on the 76ers. They really like Covington and consider him a building block, and rightfully so. He's a pretty good prototypical 3/D player who can cover multiple positions.

I think they may be able to carve out 25-27m in actual cap space once Embiid (huge cap hold BTW) and Covington are taken care of, which is not even enough for 1 max player.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
defense wrote:
MJST wrote:
defense wrote:
Quote:
Max level free agents in a "win now" mode aren't coming to wait for 3-4 seasons for Lonzo or BI to get to "that point". If that was the case, LeBron wouldn't have had Wiggins shipped off for Kevin Love.


And yet Lebron didn't ship out a very young Kyrie because he knew he could help him win a ring and he was right.


Kyrie was already a 20-22 ppg scorer by that time and had been in the league for 3 seasons. Neither Lonzo nor Ingram is in that position or at that point in their careers. So that comparison doesn't work.

The only young player we had that could even be considered close to that kind of breakthrough as a scorer THIS season is the one we sent to Brooklyn for Lopez.


Its not about 20 points per game. Its about understanding that they may have the tools to help win. As far as the stats go wait until the end of this season before you boldly declare that Ingram and Lonzo aren't good enough to help a team with Lebron and George.


And maybe they just didn't think Wiggins was very good. They did wait until he completed an underwhelming summer league before actually trading him. Would even the Cavs back then have traded Lonzo after the SPL he just had?


If it meant getting Lebron, yes.


No, they already had Lebron.


It was probably already established that to get LeBron they were going to be moving their Number 1 pick for a Superstar if they could land it.

If LeBron was patient then they'd have played that season with Wiggins and Kyrie and went after landing Kevin Love in the off-season when he was a free agent.

But I'm pretty sure it was an agreed upon thing that for LeBron to join they were gonna use the pick to land someone to make it another Big 3.

Which is why the trade rumors started up almost immediately after he got there and even during Summer League and carried on to that really awkward interview with Wiggins about it where Wiggins looked disappointed.


I'm sure they agreed on the possibility, but highly doubt it was set in stone as some condition of him signing there. Why else let him play in the SPL, and risk breaking an ankle and jeopardizing the trade. No, they wanted to see how he looked at a higher level after college before committing to it, and weren't particularly impressed with the results. If he has an SPL like Lonzo did then it's a different story.
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