OFFICIAL JULIUS RANDLE THREAD!!
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bandiger
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Aike wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Aike wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I can enjoy watching former Lakers, but I can't remain a "true" fan of them. I'd like to remain a Julius Randle fan. Really, really hope we bring the guy back.

I also hope he's working on his ball handling, right hand and 3pt shot. I think he could be even better getting to the rim off the dribble if his handle was tighter.


Agree totally. I appreciate heís in the gym already, dude has that work ethic and i app appreciate it. Itíll help him with his jumping and general quickness which should help on both ends.

The real opportunity for Randle to improve though has to do with his shooting. There is a lot of room for growth there and really the key to him becoming a starter on a playoff team vs just a guy putting up numbers on a lottery team. I hope his offseason dedication includes as much shooting as it does physical training.


I think you continue to underrate Randle. He is without a doubt ďstarter on a playoff teamĒ quality already. Not his fault that most of the rest of the team isnít yet at his level.


Has nothing to do with my personal opinion of him

Randle - 17th in BMP among PFís who got significant minutes

There are 16 playoff teams, by definition he isnít a starting quality PF on a playoff team..heís close. Hence the need for improvement. That has nothing to do with playstyle or my personal opinion about how far a team can go in the playoffs with a PF whoís primary strength is finishing around the basket and whoís primary weakness is shooting.

For the record, the only starter we had that is good enough to be a starter on a playoff team, by this definition, is Lonzo Ball...who was 15th in BPM among PGís.


Pretty clear that it has a great deal to do with your personal opinion of him. Otherwise, why go out of your way to nit pick single stats to barely ďproveĒ your point?

Hereís a sampling of players with lower BPM than Randle this season: Paul Millsap, Myles Turner, Mirotic, Devin Booker, C.J. McCollum, Khris Middleton, Gortat. Any of those guys playoff team starter quality?


Iím sorry if the statistical fact that Randle was the 113th best player in the NBA this season doesnít fit your narrative that heís a good player. He is the 17th best PF in the NBA. Thatís great, heís the #3 option an a .500 team.

As far as the guys on your list, Iím not going to take the time to rank them vs. those at their position but if they arenít top 16, then if they did make the playoffs then they were carried. 5 starters the quality of julius randle last year do not make the playoffs, thatís the point. Are we interested in making the playoffs or defending and suggesting overpaying an average NBA player?


Dude is not worth paying unless they have Lebron type player to cover for his major weakness. I'm thinking you pay this guy the max he'll just get you stuck in making the playoffs but never beating or matching the elite teams cause he can't shoot and his defense isn't good enough.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Aike wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Aike wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I can enjoy watching former Lakers, but I can't remain a "true" fan of them. I'd like to remain a Julius Randle fan. Really, really hope we bring the guy back.

I also hope he's working on his ball handling, right hand and 3pt shot. I think he could be even better getting to the rim off the dribble if his handle was tighter.


Agree totally. I appreciate heís in the gym already, dude has that work ethic and i app appreciate it. Itíll help him with his jumping and general quickness which should help on both ends.

The real opportunity for Randle to improve though has to do with his shooting. There is a lot of room for growth there and really the key to him becoming a starter on a playoff team vs just a guy putting up numbers on a lottery team. I hope his offseason dedication includes as much shooting as it does physical training.


I think you continue to underrate Randle. He is without a doubt ďstarter on a playoff teamĒ quality already. Not his fault that most of the rest of the team isnít yet at his level.


Has nothing to do with my personal opinion of him

Randle - 17th in BMP among PFís who got significant minutes

There are 16 playoff teams, by definition he isnít a starting quality PF on a playoff team..heís close. Hence the need for improvement. That has nothing to do with playstyle or my personal opinion about how far a team can go in the playoffs with a PF whoís primary strength is finishing around the basket and whoís primary weakness is shooting.

For the record, the only starter we had that is good enough to be a starter on a playoff team, by this definition, is Lonzo Ball...who was 15th in BPM among PGís.


Pretty clear that it has a great deal to do with your personal opinion of him. Otherwise, why go out of your way to nit pick single stats to barely ďproveĒ your point?

Hereís a sampling of players with lower BPM than Randle this season: Paul Millsap, Myles Turner, Mirotic, Devin Booker, C.J. McCollum, Khris Middleton, Gortat. Any of those guys playoff team starter quality?


Iím sorry if the statistical fact that Randle was the 113th best player in the NBA this season doesnít fit your narrative that heís a good player. He is the 17th best PF in the NBA. Thatís great, heís the #3 option an a .500 team.

As far as the guys on your list, Iím not going to take the time to rank them vs. those at their position but if they arenít top 16, then if they did make the playoffs then they were carried. 5 starters the quality of julius randle last year do not make the playoffs, thatís the point. Are we interested in making the playoffs or defending and suggesting overpaying an average NBA player?


Quote:
16 playoff teams, by definition he isnít a starting quality PF on a playoff team..heís close


So, you are saying that all 16 playoff teams had the 1 to 16 best PF's in the NBA? Was the PF position that top heavy where only the teams with the best PF's in the NBA mad the playoffs? Or did some of those teams have talent at other positions?

Your statement doesn't make sense.


Iím sure a fair amount of starters on playoff teams in the early rounds are not top 16, but just means they got carried.

5 starters of Julius quality as starters on a team is not a playoff team, I think thatís pretty straightforward and easy to understand. For every Julius in the starting rotation there needs to be a better player in comparison to his peers at another position. Unless he improves, he is hurting not helping...if he takes a lot of our Cap, even worse.
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Aike
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Aike wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Aike wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I can enjoy watching former Lakers, but I can't remain a "true" fan of them. I'd like to remain a Julius Randle fan. Really, really hope we bring the guy back.

I also hope he's working on his ball handling, right hand and 3pt shot. I think he could be even better getting to the rim off the dribble if his handle was tighter.


Agree totally. I appreciate heís in the gym already, dude has that work ethic and i app appreciate it. Itíll help him with his jumping and general quickness which should help on both ends.

The real opportunity for Randle to improve though has to do with his shooting. There is a lot of room for growth there and really the key to him becoming a starter on a playoff team vs just a guy putting up numbers on a lottery team. I hope his offseason dedication includes as much shooting as it does physical training.


I think you continue to underrate Randle. He is without a doubt ďstarter on a playoff teamĒ quality already. Not his fault that most of the rest of the team isnít yet at his level.


Has nothing to do with my personal opinion of him

Randle - 17th in BMP among PFís who got significant minutes

There are 16 playoff teams, by definition he isnít a starting quality PF on a playoff team..heís close. Hence the need for improvement. That has nothing to do with playstyle or my personal opinion about how far a team can go in the playoffs with a PF whoís primary strength is finishing around the basket and whoís primary weakness is shooting.

For the record, the only starter we had that is good enough to be a starter on a playoff team, by this definition, is Lonzo Ball...who was 15th in BPM among PGís.


Pretty clear that it has a great deal to do with your personal opinion of him. Otherwise, why go out of your way to nit pick single stats to barely ďproveĒ your point?

Hereís a sampling of players with lower BPM than Randle this season: Paul Millsap, Myles Turner, Mirotic, Devin Booker, C.J. McCollum, Khris Middleton, Gortat. Any of those guys playoff team starter quality?


Iím sorry if the statistical fact that Randle was the 113th best player in the NBA this season doesnít fit your narrative that heís a good player. He is the 17th best PF in the NBA. Thatís great, heís the #3 option an a .500 team.

As far as the guys on your list, Iím not going to take the time to rank them vs. those at their position but if they arenít top 16, then if they did make the playoffs then they were carried. 5 starters the quality of julius randle last year do not make the playoffs, thatís the point. Are we interested in making the playoffs or defending and suggesting overpaying an average NBA player?


Youíre the one with the anti-Randle narrative, and itís patently obvious. Gotta chuckle at you ďstatistical factĒ based on exactly one measure.

You could note that BPM is notoriously bad at measuring defensive contribution. Kevin Durant comes in at 139 on defense, for instance. Chris Paul is 127. Randle is 148. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is 175. Lemme guess, this is ďstatistical proofĒ that they are all poor defenders?

You could have noted that Randle was 94th this year in WS/48. Or that he was 74 in VORP. Or 56 in PER. But oops, those look like the numbers of a playoff quality starter. Good thing you dug up ďstatistical proofĒ though.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject:

According to BPM, Lowry is better than Durant and AD. So color me skeptical there.

I think one factor that isnít being considered is that Randle is a half decade from his prime.

So however you look at it, you have to assume thereíll be improvement from where he is.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject:

Thatís the point, he wonít get paid for what he did last season, it will be for what he is projected to do. Passing on 4 years, $48 mil was really short sighted.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
According to BPM, Lowry is better than Durant and AD. So color me skeptical there.

I think one factor that isnít being considered is that Randle is a half decade from his prime.

So however you look at it, you have to assume thereíll be improvement from where he is.


Yeah taking one metric and using it to make blanket judgments like that is pretty bad lol
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Last edited by 22 on Wed May 09, 2018 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject:

Okay so that guy who made the thread a few months ago titled "I'd take Randle over Lebron"...I called him crazy but I agree now. Yeah if we get a HOF talent that puts us in immediate contention it would be good for 4-5 years, but Randle's a guy who could keep us a contender with the right pieces for 10+ years. I don't want Lebron if it means losing Randle.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Thatís the point, he wonít get paid for what he did last season, it will be for what he is projected to do. Passing on 4 years, $48 mil was really short sighted.


Not really, Julius was overall a very poor player coming into this season....he didnít earn 4 years $48. It was the right call. Not getting extended challenged him and he rose to the challenge, heís worthy of that now and maybe a bit more.

If he would have shown the work ethic and dedication he exhibited this season prior to getting challenged, he would have gotten his money. Maybe if he would have gotten his 4/48 he wouldnít have gotten in better shape, because he certainly didnít make the effort before that.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:42 pm    Post subject:

If Lakers had offered Julius the extension and he accepted, the Lakers probably would have traded Julius like they did JC for a chance at 2 max players.
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject:

Everyone wants to keep Randle with pg + lebron and the pros/cons of keeping Randle scenario. however, what are the pros/cons if we decide to not keep Randle?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:38 am    Post subject:

Lakers_Jester wrote:
Everyone wants to keep Randle with pg + lebron and the pros/cons of keeping Randle scenario. however, what are the pros/cons if we decide to not keep Randle?


There aren't many pros. I suppose the one pro is that you don't have to stretch Deng yet so he saves you a small amount of money longer term.

But you won't be able to sign another player of his quality as you won't be able to go over the cap to sign him. Signing him won't put you into luxury tax. The only downside of signing him is that he costs ownership money and a small amount of cap space. You basically lose an asset for a small amount of cap space that you won't be able to replace him with a similar quality player with.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:11 am    Post subject:

Lakers_Jester wrote:
Everyone wants to keep Randle with pg + lebron and the pros/cons of keeping Randle scenario. however, what are the pros/cons if we decide to not keep Randle?


Only pro I can think of is shorter wall posts?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
Okay so that guy who made the thread a few months ago titled "I'd take Randle over Lebron"...I called him crazy but I agree now. Yeah if we get a HOF talent that puts us in immediate contention it would be good for 4-5 years, but Randle's a guy who could keep us a contender with the right pieces for 10+ years. I don't want Lebron if it means losing Randle.


I like Randle too but I don't think he'll ever get to current LeBron level even in his peak. I'm hoping he'll be a solid 2nd or 3rd options in a championship roster ala Pau. I think the argument is how many years can LeBron sustain this MVP level play? Basing on pre-injury Kobe/MJ, possibly til about 36-37? 3 seasons worth at max? YES, get me LeBron
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Thatís the point, he wonít get paid for what he did last season, it will be for what he is projected to do. Passing on 4 years, $48 mil was really short sighted.


Not really, Julius was overall a very poor player coming into this season....he didnít earn 4 years $48. It was the right call. Not getting extended challenged him and he rose to the challenge, heís worthy of that now and maybe a bit more.

If he would have shown the work ethic and dedication he exhibited this season prior to getting challenged, he would have gotten his money. Maybe if he would have gotten his 4/48 he wouldnít have gotten in better shape, because he certainly didnít make the effort before that.


That is exactly what I posted, he is well worth that now and will be a bargain in 3 years. I will choose to ignore the crap you make up and stick to reality. Is a guy blowing up in his third season abnormal? No, it is extremely common. Now we will have to pay more, good for Julius.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
If Lakers had offered Julius the extension and he accepted, the Lakers probably would have traded Julius like they did JC for a chance at 2 max players.


His $4 mil wouldnít have made much of a difference
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

I think there is a chance that at some point next season, some announcer or media personality will say something to the effect of "sure, you can double Lebron, but then how are you going to stop Julius Randle?" I think honestly believe that Randle still has a chance of becoming a terror of an offensive force in this league while being an elite defender. Dont be so sure we have seen his ceiling.

Finished watching some julius Randle highlights this morning, along with GT's video on him... got me pumped.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject:

Edit...never mind...Iím just done trying to discuss Randle. I wonít post in this thread again. I truly hope that one of two things happen

1) Nobody makes a RFA offer for him and he signs our QO and then leaves on his own
2) Somebody makes a max RFA offer for him and he leaves

Iím just not a fan, I like shooting and defense...and so does our FO...I donít think they are going to overpay him to stay. Peace.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
epak wrote:
If Lakers had offered Julius the extension and he accepted, the Lakers probably would have traded Julius like they did JC for a chance at 2 max players.


His $4 mil wouldnít have made much of a difference


Wasn't the extension up to his cap hold: $12.4 M?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
epak wrote:
If Lakers had offered Julius the extension and he accepted, the Lakers probably would have traded Julius like they did JC for a chance at 2 max players.


His $4 mil wouldnít have made much of a difference


Wasn't the extension up to his cap hold: $12.4 M?


Would have kicked in this upcoming season I think
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
epak wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
epak wrote:
If Lakers had offered Julius the extension and he accepted, the Lakers probably would have traded Julius like they did JC for a chance at 2 max players.


His $4 mil wouldnít have made much of a difference


Wasn't the extension up to his cap hold: $12.4 M?


Would have kicked in this upcoming season I think


But at a hard cap no?
Currently, we can sign 2 max guys and then sign Julius over the cap.

But if he signed the extension, could we have done that?
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
PG13 wrote:
epak wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
epak wrote:
If Lakers had offered Julius the extension and he accepted, the Lakers probably would have traded Julius like they did JC for a chance at 2 max players.


His $4 mil wouldnít have made much of a difference


Wasn't the extension up to his cap hold: $12.4 M?


Would have kicked in this upcoming season I think


But at a hard cap no?
Currently, we can sign 2 max guys and then sign Julius over the cap.

But if he signed the extension, could we have done that?


I think so, if we traded Deng and his number was like 12 million. It is still a 12 million cap hold, so it would be about the same, but we are allowed to go over the 12 million of we trade Deng and signed 2 max, we would just have to sign Julius last. If he signed the extension he would have been locked in at 12 million I think.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Edit...never mind...Iím just done trying to discuss Randle. I wonít post in this thread again. I truly hope that one of two things happen

1) Nobody makes a RFA offer for him and he signs our QO and then leaves on his own
2) Somebody makes a max RFA offer for him and he leaves

Iím just not a fan, I like shooting and defense...and so does our FO...I donít think they are going to overpay him to stay. Peace.


Bye Felicia

Some also thought the FO would pick Nance over him lol.

You personally don't like his game, and that's fine, so you choose to look at the glass half empty. But defense is not a weakness for him.

The things Randle did at only 23 (while missing a full season) is nothing to snuff at. Kid will only improve because he's dedicated.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Edit...never mind...Iím just done trying to discuss Randle. I wonít post in this thread again. I truly hope that one of two things happen

1) Nobody makes a RFA offer for him and he signs our QO and then leaves on his own
2) Somebody makes a max RFA offer for him and he leaves

Iím just not a fan, I like shooting and defense...and so does our FO...I donít think they are going to overpay him to stay. Peace.


Bye Felicia

Some also thought the FO would pick Nance over him lol.

You personally don't like his game, and that's fine, so you choose to look at the glass half empty. But defense is not a weakness for him.

The things Randle did at only 23 (while missing a full season) is nothing to snuff at. Kid will only improve because he's dedicated.


Not enough credit is given to the fact he is an elite athlete. Comparing him to someone like Bobby Portis ignores the fact Portis would be physically unable to stop and or move Julius Randle. Combined with his ball handling and finishing ability, he is unlike 99.9% of the league.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
22 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Edit...never mind...Iím just done trying to discuss Randle. I wonít post in this thread again. I truly hope that one of two things happen

1) Nobody makes a RFA offer for him and he signs our QO and then leaves on his own
2) Somebody makes a max RFA offer for him and he leaves

Iím just not a fan, I like shooting and defense...and so does our FO...I donít think they are going to overpay him to stay. Peace.


Bye Felicia

Some also thought the FO would pick Nance over him lol.

You personally don't like his game, and that's fine, so you choose to look at the glass half empty. But defense is not a weakness for him.

The things Randle did at only 23 (while missing a full season) is nothing to snuff at. Kid will only improve because he's dedicated.


Not enough credit is given to the fact he is an elite athlete. Comparing him to someone like Bobby Portis ignores the fact Portis would be physically unable to stop and or move Julius Randle. Combined with his ball handling and finishing ability, he is unlike 99.9% of the league.


absolutely my man. Plus he's not afraid of the big moments either
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Roon wrote:
22 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Edit...never mind...Iím just done trying to discuss Randle. I wonít post in this thread again. I truly hope that one of two things happen

1) Nobody makes a RFA offer for him and he signs our QO and then leaves on his own
2) Somebody makes a max RFA offer for him and he leaves

Iím just not a fan, I like shooting and defense...and so does our FO...I donít think they are going to overpay him to stay. Peace.


Bye Felicia

Some also thought the FO would pick Nance over him lol.

You personally don't like his game, and that's fine, so you choose to look at the glass half empty. But defense is not a weakness for him.

The things Randle did at only 23 (while missing a full season) is nothing to snuff at. Kid will only improve because he's dedicated.


Not enough credit is given to the fact he is an elite athlete. Comparing him to someone like Bobby Portis ignores the fact Portis would be physically unable to stop and or move Julius Randle. Combined with his ball handling and finishing ability, he is unlike 99.9% of the league.


absolutely my man. Plus he's not afraid of the big moments either



Randle has shown he can play at an elite level on offense and defense and he is only 23. He has shown the dedication needed to become a great player. He has done this more than any current Laker. He is the Lakers best player by a good distance.

We should find a way to keep him period. If we are lucky enough to find a way to sign PG and Lebron we will need to resign JR. I may mean packaging a pick and a player, Bryant, or Zubac to get rid of Deng to clear the space. We would still have a mid level extension and every asset on the team would be attractive on the open market meaning we would still have flexibility going forward.
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