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44TheLogo
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 Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| silkwilkes wrote: | The thing is though... you want a rookie to first get comfortable in the NBA and use the tools that got him there. There's enough to try and adapt to without overloading things with making a ton of technical changes on top of it. Let the first year go by and then go from there.
Kobe's jumper was awkward too in his first year (he didn't use his legs well) and his dribbling was all about crossing over (players picked his pocket a lot)... After his first year, they started working with him on that and he made great progress.
Rookie year is all about settling into the league. Last thing you want to do is confuse a rookie with info overload and it causes him to struggle... can't kill his confidence. |
Luckily we aren't on the training staff so we can sit here and nitpick all we want without hurting his development.  |
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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I mean there are simple things that you can have him do... like getting in great shape so that his effort is there all the time and getting his shoulders squared when he shoots (no fade to the right or left). I've seen progress there already. Once he gets those two things down pat, you move to the next set of stuff like ball and elbow position on his shooting maybe. Remember that he's also working on his man-on-man defense and boxing out too. A lot of stuff.
My only point is that you can't have a rookie work on correcting and improving everything at the same time. |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| silkwilkes wrote: | I mean there are simple things that you can have him do... like getting in great shape so that his effort is there all the time and getting his shoulders squared when he shoots (no fade to the right or left). I've seen progress there already. Once he gets those two things down pat, you move to the next set of stuff like ball and elbow position on his shooting maybe. Remember that he's also working on his man-on-man defense and boxing out too. A lot of stuff.
My only point is that you can't have a rookie work on correcting and improving everything at the same time. |
Well, I agree with everything you say, I'm just pointing out that we're just fans and have nothing to do with his training and developmental schedule. So we can critique him as a player to point out areas that we want to see him grow in without it adversely affecting his development path whatsoever. |
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:13 am Post subject: |
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GT's observations are 100% on point btw. Rightly or wrongly, i feel that i need to keep the LG "pitch and fork" crowd from calling Randle out for not improving certain things when it may not be his immediate area of emphasis. Not directed at peeps like you at all 44.
We have a lot of extremists  |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | yeah absolutely GT, everything you say is exactly what I try to do as a shooter. Hand 90 degrees to elbow (with a slight elbow flare), middle finger shooting finger. What I try to do is imagine a straight line between myself and the basket, find the point on the rim closest to me along that line, and then hang my middle finger on the front of the rim. in practice it does the same thing as "high fiving" it, but forces the wrist to snap on the follow through to get strong backspin on the ball to give it that shooters touch. |
Ya, good point about the wrist snap. I teach that as a separate component from the elbow/arm positioning, and perhaps I shouldn't. I generally emphasize a bouncy/floppy wrist, and that your middle finger should be dipping down onto the top of the square, but teach that as a separate step, and maybe I should find a way to incorporate it with the other elements. Something to think about.
I could talk about this stuff for hours. Thanks for the great conversation, 44.  |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | silkwilkes wrote: | I mean there are simple things that you can have him do... like getting in great shape so that his effort is there all the time and getting his shoulders squared when he shoots (no fade to the right or left). I've seen progress there already. Once he gets those two things down pat, you move to the next set of stuff like ball and elbow position on his shooting maybe. Remember that he's also working on his man-on-man defense and boxing out too. A lot of stuff.
My only point is that you can't have a rookie work on correcting and improving everything at the same time. |
Well, I agree with everything you say, I'm just pointing out that we're just fans and have nothing to do with his training and developmental schedule. So we can critique him as a player to point out areas that we want to see him grow in without it adversely affecting his development path whatsoever. |
Definitely. In these lean years, I take great joy in seeing our prospects grow up. Some of my favorite Laker teams were the 93-96 squads, even though they didn't win the championship. I think we generally place ridiculously immediate expectations on 19 year olds like Randle. I point out these deficiencies from a "it's gonna be fun to see if he gets better at this" standpoint rather than with any expectation that he should be well-rounded right this second.
I think the guy is going to be a flat out stud.
-He's downright fast with the ball in his hands. Not fast for a big guy. He's fast, with no qualifiers. Watching everyone eat his dust in transition the other night when Ellington got fouled left Stu Lantz with his jaw on the floor.
-Incredible first step, combined with one of the best rip through moves in the league right now. Sometimes he doesn't know how to finish the play, but he gets to where he wants to go. That's the hard part. Knowing what to do next with come with time, especially with as clever as he is around the basket. He's making a lot of the wrong choices right now on his shot attempts. That will lessen with experience.
-His passes have great zip on them. Shooters are gonna love playing with him, if we ever get our spacing fixed. Fast, accurate passes mean wide open shots.
-Even defensively, he has quick feet when he wants to use them, which you saw when he rotated over for a couple of blocks in that 4th quarter. I don't expect him to be much of a rim protector, but he's very capable of being a good positional defender. This is my biggest expectation of what Byron Scott can bring to the table for him...accountability his rotations. His quick feet also make him an ideal PnR defender, in the mold of a Chris Bosh or Blake Griffin. He's learning that, and showing promise, IMO.
So when I point out little technical stuff, it doesn't mean that I don't think really highly of him. I most certainly do. |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | silkwilkes wrote: | I mean there are simple things that you can have him do... like getting in great shape so that his effort is there all the time and getting his shoulders squared when he shoots (no fade to the right or left). I've seen progress there already. Once he gets those two things down pat, you move to the next set of stuff like ball and elbow position on his shooting maybe. Remember that he's also working on his man-on-man defense and boxing out too. A lot of stuff.
My only point is that you can't have a rookie work on correcting and improving everything at the same time. |
Well, I agree with everything you say, I'm just pointing out that we're just fans and have nothing to do with his training and developmental schedule. So we can critique him as a player to point out areas that we want to see him grow in without it adversely affecting his development path whatsoever. |
Definitely. In these lean years, I take great joy in seeing our prospects grow up. Some of my favorite Laker teams were the 93-96 squads, even though they didn't win the championship. I think we generally place ridiculously immediate expectations on 19 year olds like Randle. I point out these deficiencies from a "it's gonna be fun to see if he gets better at this" standpoint rather than with any expectation that he should be well-rounded right this second.
I think the guy is going to be a flat out stud.
-He's downright fast with the ball in his hands. Not fast for a big guy. He's fast, with no qualifiers. Watching everyone eat his dust in transition the other night when Ellington got fouled left Stu Lantz with his jaw on the floor.
-Incredible first step, combined with one of the best rip through moves in the league right now. Sometimes he doesn't know how to finish the play, but he gets to where he wants to go. That's the hard part. Knowing what to do next with come with time, especially with as clever as he is around the basket. He's making a lot of the wrong choices right now on his shot attempts. That will lessen with experience.
-His passes have great zip on them. Shooters are gonna love playing with him, if we ever get our spacing fixed. Fast, accurate passes mean wide open shots.
-Even defensively, he has quick feet when he wants to use them, which you saw when he rotated over for a couple of blocks in that 4th quarter. I don't expect him to be much of a rim protector, but he's very capable of being a good positional defender. This is my biggest expectation of what Byron Scott can bring to the table for him...accountability his rotations. His quick feet also make him an ideal PnR defender, in the mold of a Chris Bosh or Blake Griffin. He's learning that, and showing promise, IMO.
So when I point out little technical stuff, it doesn't mean that I don't think really highly of him. I most certainly do. |
Not an easy feat nowadays.
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GoldenThroat
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | silkwilkes wrote: | I mean there are simple things that you can have him do... like getting in great shape so that his effort is there all the time and getting his shoulders squared when he shoots (no fade to the right or left). I've seen progress there already. Once he gets those two things down pat, you move to the next set of stuff like ball and elbow position on his shooting maybe. Remember that he's also working on his man-on-man defense and boxing out too. A lot of stuff.
My only point is that you can't have a rookie work on correcting and improving everything at the same time. |
Well, I agree with everything you say, I'm just pointing out that we're just fans and have nothing to do with his training and developmental schedule. So we can critique him as a player to point out areas that we want to see him grow in without it adversely affecting his development path whatsoever. |
Definitely. In these lean years, I take great joy in seeing our prospects grow up. Some of my favorite Laker teams were the 93-96 squads, even though they didn't win the championship. I think we generally place ridiculously immediate expectations on 19 year olds like Randle. I point out these deficiencies from a "it's gonna be fun to see if he gets better at this" standpoint rather than with any expectation that he should be well-rounded right this second.
I think the guy is going to be a flat out stud.
-He's downright fast with the ball in his hands. Not fast for a big guy. He's fast, with no qualifiers. Watching everyone eat his dust in transition the other night when Ellington got fouled left Stu Lantz with his jaw on the floor.
-Incredible first step, combined with one of the best rip through moves in the league right now. Sometimes he doesn't know how to finish the play, but he gets to where he wants to go. That's the hard part. Knowing what to do next with come with time, especially with as clever as he is around the basket. He's making a lot of the wrong choices right now on his shot attempts. That will lessen with experience.
-His passes have great zip on them. Shooters are gonna love playing with him, if we ever get our spacing fixed. Fast, accurate passes mean wide open shots.
-Even defensively, he has quick feet when he wants to use them, which you saw when he rotated over for a couple of blocks in that 4th quarter. I don't expect him to be much of a rim protector, but he's very capable of being a good positional defender. This is my biggest expectation of what Byron Scott can bring to the table for him...accountability his rotations. His quick feet also make him an ideal PnR defender, in the mold of a Chris Bosh or Blake Griffin. He's learning that, and showing promise, IMO.
So when I point out little technical stuff, it doesn't mean that I don't think really highly of him. I most certainly do. |
Yeah, I think he's an absolute stud as well, and cannot believe he went 7, though MOST of the picks before him were defensible (Aaron Gordon aside, are you kidding me?). I think he was top 4 in this draft with Embiid, Wiggins, and Parker. Really glad it worked out this way - I wonder if we were the team that leaked his foot injury thing to make sure he fell to us haaha |
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44TheLogo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | yeah absolutely GT, everything you say is exactly what I try to do as a shooter. Hand 90 degrees to elbow (with a slight elbow flare), middle finger shooting finger. What I try to do is imagine a straight line between myself and the basket, find the point on the rim closest to me along that line, and then hang my middle finger on the front of the rim. in practice it does the same thing as "high fiving" it, but forces the wrist to snap on the follow through to get strong backspin on the ball to give it that shooters touch. |
Ya, good point about the wrist snap. I teach that as a separate component from the elbow/arm positioning, and perhaps I shouldn't. I generally emphasize a bouncy/floppy wrist, and that your middle finger should be dipping down onto the top of the square, but teach that as a separate step, and maybe I should find a way to incorporate it with the other elements. Something to think about.
I could talk about this stuff for hours. Thanks for the great conversation, 44. |
Likewise. If I could retire today and do anything I wanted I'd become a basketball coach. As it is I can only do it as a volunteer youth thing on weekends. |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Reading your posts makes me want a Randle hollywood nights jersey!
And I'm getting amped for tonight's game! Can't wait to see Julius continue to develop  |
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Purp 32
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| The kid is only 19. In 3 years he's going to be a problem to defend. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree that randle is going to be a stud. He is already making pretty good progress every game. during the draft I didn't want randle but after I started studying his game more I fell in love with it. As far as I'm concerned this is a good sign since I didn't really like kobe at first either. Can't wait for tonight's game. |
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anpherknee
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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DJ Slik
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| randle needs A LOT of seasoning. for all the talent he has all he knows how to do is attempt coast to coast dribble drives. he looked completely lost against PHX. he's got that stud instinct to try to score every time he touches the ball, but that's not getting him to where he needs to be to make the lakers a better TEAM. IMO at this point he needs to learn how to operate in an offense. All I've seen from him at this point is jungle ball. |
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Rivershow
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ Slik wrote: | | randle needs A LOT of seasoning. for all the talent he has all he knows how to do is attempt coast to coast dribble drives. he looked completely lost against PHX. he's got that stud instinct to try to score every time he touches the ball, but that's not getting him to where he needs to be to make the lakers a better TEAM. IMO at this point he needs to learn how to operate in an offense. All I've seen from him at this point is jungle ball. |
You know Jungle ball is racist term right? Let's not use it. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I think he needs to have the offense built around him. He looked a lot better in summer league with the offensive sets madsen was running. It cleared a lot of space for randle to operate. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ Slik wrote: | | randle needs A LOT of seasoning. for all the talent he has all he knows how to do is attempt coast to coast dribble drives. he looked completely lost against PHX. he's got that stud instinct to try to score every time he touches the ball, but that's not getting him to where he needs to be to make the lakers a better TEAM. IMO at this point he needs to learn how to operate in an offense. All I've seen from him at this point is jungle ball. |
most "offensive scoring options" play 1v1, deviated from the flow of an offense.. I guess he does look reckless when he drives... |
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Like all rookies... up and down from game to game sometimes. I get the feeling that he dials it up at the end of the preseason though. Just a hunch. |
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DJ Slik
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | randle needs A LOT of seasoning. for all the talent he has all he knows how to do is attempt coast to coast dribble drives. he looked completely lost against PHX. he's got that stud instinct to try to score every time he touches the ball, but that's not getting him to where he needs to be to make the lakers a better TEAM. IMO at this point he needs to learn how to operate in an offense. All I've seen from him at this point is jungle ball. |
You know Jungle ball is racist term right? Let's not use it. |
Not in my experience where I'm from but if it offends anyone that's fine I will refrain from using it. Not meant in any racist fashion I assure you.
All I've seen from Randle at this point is street ball. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Similar to the street ball we saw from Exum the other night? As well as Kobe when he came into the league? Surprise, they are rookies and are playing like rookies.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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anpherknee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | randle needs A LOT of seasoning. for all the talent he has all he knows how to do is attempt coast to coast dribble drives. he looked completely lost against PHX. he's got that stud instinct to try to score every time he touches the ball, but that's not getting him to where he needs to be to make the lakers a better TEAM. IMO at this point he needs to learn how to operate in an offense. All I've seen from him at this point is jungle ball. |
most "offensive scoring options" play 1v1, deviated from the flow of an offense.. I guess he does look reckless when he drives... |
I wouldn't even characterize it as reckless...from what I've seen...9/10 he gets to the spot he wants to get to...I think people think it looks reckless because he changes motion super fast and kinda uses a high baiting dribble in order to set up his change of direction by dribbling the ball out in front of him...angling his body while the ball is in mid bounce and then when he makes his move... quickly snatching it back to the direction he is driving (which I actually think is a part of the reason he can change direction so effectively). Now I will agree with DJ silk on the premise that he needs to be better off ball...there were a couple plays where he was standing off ball and I was screaming for him to dive into the open lane for a potential bucket...but im sure that is something that will come in time |
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22
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Agreed he has some things to learn about playing off ball. However I'd rather develop his on ball skills more first to get his confidence up. Let him run point forward and "run the show" in the second unit so to speak. Price is not really a good offense intiator anyway. I think our lineups should be
Lin
Kobe
Johnson
Boozer
Davis
Price
Ellington/X
Young
Randle
Hill
Especially while Swaggy is out Julius needs reps running the O |
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anpherknee
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | Agreed he has some things to learn about playing off ball. However I'd rather develop his on ball skills more first to get his confidence up. Let him run point forward and "run the show" in the second unit so to speak. Price is not really a good offense intiator anyway. I think our lineups should be
Lin
Kobe
Johnson
Boozer
Davis
Price
Ellington/X
Young
Randle
Hill
Especially while Swaggy is out Julius needs reps running the O |
agreed, he is the 3rd best shot creator behind kobe and lin and 4th place isnt close right now (excluding nash of course) Randle appears to me to be a player who can get in a groove quickly..all it takes is one good play and he is instantly more involved in the game...he needs more of a leash to try and make plays...especially in the wake of johnson's 8 TO performance...if he has the ball enough to make 8 TOs...then Randle should definitely be getting more on ball opportunities |
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