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GasolBynumKobe
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Inverse wrote:
I think when the dust settles, Julius will be considered the second best player in this draft, which would be amazing. That's no knock though, because Jabari Parker is just that good


I've been dreading the mischaracterization of how good Parker is since he was in college. It has begun. Holy Shareef Abdur-Rahim.


I'm not really sure what else to say other than the fact that if Jabari was in a laker uniform, he would be touted as the second coming. If you don't think Jabari will be a star in this league, then Julius won't be either. Jabari has pretty much the exact same measurements as Julius. There's been stretches where teams have been guarding him with their PF's, and he's been dominating. And his step back jumper is NBA ready, and it will be his bread and butter. But we're all entitled to our opinions. But if you had the second pick in the draft, you're saying you would draft Julius over Jabari? Serious question, I'm curious.


Jabari is pudgy, plays slow and will have plenty of 6/19 shooting nights. He's not strong enough to play 4 and not fast enough to play 3. If you're gonna be a tweener, you have to at least excel in shooting which KD has done. Look at Beasley, Derrick Williams..they're tweeners who can't shoot and they have no place in the league. Jabari will be good but 2nd coming? Wiggins has impressed me more so far. Jabari is also horrid defensively.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject:

Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Inverse wrote:
I think when the dust settles, Julius will be considered the second best player in this draft, which would be amazing. That's no knock though, because Jabari Parker is just that good


I've been dreading the mischaracterization of how good Parker is since he was in college. It has begun. Holy Shareef Abdur-Rahim.


I'm not really sure what else to say other than the fact that if Jabari was in a laker uniform, he would be touted as the second coming. If you don't think Jabari will be a star in this league, then Julius won't be either. Jabari has pretty much the exact same measurements as Julius. There's been stretches where teams have been guarding him with their PF's, and he's been dominating. And his step back jumper is NBA ready, and it will be his bread and butter. But we're all entitled to our opinions. But if you had the second pick in the draft, you're saying you would draft Julius over Jabari? Serious question, I'm curious.


Yes, I would. Jabari is going to score his ass off in the NBA, and he'll grab some boards, but his defense is so egregiously bad that he's not going to help his team get much closer to wins. Especially considering that he's playing the 4, which comes with extensive PnR responsibilities in the NBA. Offensively, he'll get his, but he's not going to do much to improve the opportunities of those around him.

He'll be a prolific scorer, a multiple all-star, and will be regarded as one of the better players in the NBA...and it will all be a mirage. Adrian Dantley, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Alex English...I've seen guys like him dozens of times over the years.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Inverse wrote:
I think when the dust settles, Julius will be considered the second best player in this draft, which would be amazing. That's no knock though, because Jabari Parker is just that good


I've been dreading the mischaracterization of how good Parker is since he was in college. It has begun. Holy Shareef Abdur-Rahim.


I'm not really sure what else to say other than the fact that if Jabari was in a laker uniform, he would be touted as the second coming. If you don't think Jabari will be a star in this league, then Julius won't be either. Jabari has pretty much the exact same measurements as Julius. There's been stretches where teams have been guarding him with their PF's, and he's been dominating. And his step back jumper is NBA ready, and it will be his bread and butter. But we're all entitled to our opinions. But if you had the second pick in the draft, you're saying you would draft Julius over Jabari? Serious question, I'm curious.


I'm very interested in this "Jabari is overrated talk" , because maybe i missed something and there actually is some credence to it. When you're being critical of his game, you realize two things -- he settles for low % jumpers a lot; and his jumper is overrated, its barely decent.
I'll be watching his game closely because i do love his potential skillset ; i have a serious infatuation with PFs who can handle, and play an even more perimeter oriented game. But, will he be able tot post up SFs effectively? Need to see high % shots from him.
Comparing him to Randle, the skillset that Randle has brought out since the Summer , it calls for him to be reevaluated as a prospect. Randle is basically the TRUE PF version of Jabari, and that's equated to much less low % shots / coast to coast takes as impressive as Jabari's / an offensive game that is as much of a mismatch for defenders as Jabari. And we'll see how Randle's full perimeter game develops as well, I don't doubt that one day he'll be shooting jumpers on the run, and off of wing type dribble moves.

I think we may be underestimating Randle's new offensive game, and at the same time, putting a below average jumpshooting bad shot taker on an untouchable pedestal.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject:

GasolBynumKobe wrote:
Inverse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Inverse wrote:
I think when the dust settles, Julius will be considered the second best player in this draft, which would be amazing. That's no knock though, because Jabari Parker is just that good


I've been dreading the mischaracterization of how good Parker is since he was in college. It has begun. Holy Shareef Abdur-Rahim.


I'm not really sure what else to say other than the fact that if Jabari was in a laker uniform, he would be touted as the second coming. If you don't think Jabari will be a star in this league, then Julius won't be either. Jabari has pretty much the exact same measurements as Julius. There's been stretches where teams have been guarding him with their PF's, and he's been dominating. And his step back jumper is NBA ready, and it will be his bread and butter. But we're all entitled to our opinions. But if you had the second pick in the draft, you're saying you would draft Julius over Jabari? Serious question, I'm curious.


Jabari is pudgy, plays slow and will have plenty of 6/19 shooting nights. He's not strong enough to play 4 and not fast enough to play 3. If you're gonna be a tweener, you have to at least excel in shooting which KD has done. Look at Beasley, Derrick Williams..they're tweeners who can't shoot and they have no place in the league. Jabari will be good but 2nd coming? Wiggins has impressed me more so far. Jabari is also horrid defensively.


Has looked anything but slow so far...
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Parker will get destroyed on defense.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject:

You guys haven't been watching if you don't see the explosion Jabari Parker plays with
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
You guys haven't been watching if you don't see the explosion Jabari Parker plays with


agreed, he's really evolving in that sense
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I'm very interested in this "Jabari is overrated talk" , because maybe i missed something and there actually is some credence to it. When you're being critical of his game, you realize two things -- he settles for low % jumpers a lot; and his jumper is overrated, its barely decent.
I'll be watching his game closely because i do love his potential skillset ; i have a serious infatuation with PFs who can handle, and play an even more perimeter oriented game. But, will he be able tot post up SFs effectively? Need to see high % shots from him.
Comparing him to Randle, the skillset that Randle has brought out since the Summer , it calls for him to be reevaluated as a prospect. Randle is basically the TRUE PF version of Jabari, and that's equated to much less low % shots / coast to coast takes as impressive as Jabari's / an offensive game that is as much of a mismatch for defenders as Jabari. And we'll see how Randle's full perimeter game develops as well, I don't doubt that one day he'll be shooting jumpers on the run, and off of wing type dribble moves.

I think we may be underestimating Randle's new offensive game, and at the same time, putting a below average jumpshooting bad shot taker on an untouchable pedestal.


When I watch Parker, I see a metric ton of "things that lose games". His game is very aesthetically pleasing. He's superb in the areas that your eyes are naturally drawn to. Getting lost on that back screen that causes a chain reaction that allows a wide open shot? Not as easy to catch.

He has a thoroughly developed offensive skill set for his age. That's different than being a good basketball player.


Last edited by GoldenThroat on Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.


I've been watching him, and I'm not sure if he lost any weight or not, but he's still pudgy. Skilled, yes, but still pudgy.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

He has a thoroughly developed offensive skill set for his age. That's different than being a good basketball player.


This. Lack of a skill set will never be an issue with Parker.


On another note, the pudginess may just be his body type.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:27 pm    Post subject:

oldschool32 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.


I've been watching him, and I'm not sure if he lost any weight or not, but he's still pudgy. Skilled, yes, but still pudgy.


Here are some highlights from two weeks ago v. the Cavs -


He has lost weight. I guess I'm just not seeing the pudginess.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject:

He's still pudgy, I watched a game a few nights ago. He moved well despite not being the fittest guy on the court. I'll have to dig some video up, but his midsection is still fat, and his arms looked to have zero definition.

Just to clarify, I don't doubt he's lost some lbs, but he's still a little pudgy.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject:

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This is an and me thread.

I think they are treating lin like a rookie and preparing him for the bright lights of L.A. The expectations of Laker fans can be unreasonable so they are giving lin the best opportunity to succeed as possible. Fans really expect lin-sanity again and I don't even want to think about what will happen if he can't live up to those expectations. Same with randle. Scott is just falling on the sword. Lin, randle, and davis will all find themselves in the starting lineup when they are ready.


The amazing thing is that none of Scott's lineup decisions have cost the Lakers games as of yet in pre-season and such, in fact the team seemed to play with a better synergy with how he had things set up and we were keeping offensively strong teams defensively right where we wanted them and made them play our pace.


Amazingly when D'antoni is gone the fans suddenly want all the offensive guys in the starting lineup and don't think Byron has a clue what he's doing.

Everyone basically sat and we handed it to the Kings and their starters with our bench and 3rd stringers, maybe Scott has a better idea what he's doing than people want to give him credit for and if it's going to lead to wins I'm not gonna complain.

If Price starts because of the pace and defensive flow and Lin is coming off the bench to be an offensive sparkplug and chemistry maker with Davis and such till our bench guys come back and we go 5-1 then I'm all for it as long as it continues to work.

If Lin starts because he's better offensively but Price can't run the bench or be a sparkplug there and Davis can't get into a rhythm and we go 2-4 then I'm probably gonna go with the first option even if it's the unpopular one.

But Byron was able to put Price out there to annoy the likes of Bledsoe, Collison, Lillard, Burks etc and/or pick up fouls on them as well while Lin is a mismatch over any bench point guard he goes up against while allowing Davis to get into a rhythm and by the time Lin plays with the starters he's already in a rhythm and blends in perfectly.


Given our team makeup as of right now our BENCH is what will make or break this team. If our bench isn't flowing we're not winning, if the bench has no rhythm everything becomes stagnant and as long as Kelly, X, Young are out our bench has no scorer unless you want to throw the ball into Randle's hands every time down and ask him to lead your bench in scoring every night and RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE that is not something you want to put on him which is why Byron liked Lin off the bench because without Swaggy who do the Lakers have to score on the bench that you can depend on? Obviously not Price.

Price in the starting lineup with Kobe is basically the "Fisher" it's not his job to score it's his job to play defense and to hit open threes if he gets them. Kobe handles the offensive load attacking from the block, Boozer handles the post on the other side, Wes is the other defender in a 3 and D role and Jordan Hill is the garbage hustle guy, this is why a guy like Price who really isn't much of a passer was able to have two 10 assist games under the circumstances. People do expect him to revert back to form, but honestly if anyone followed any team he's been on in his entire career, it probably wasn't a team as deep as ours nor with a system similar to Byron's. It's very much like the triangle in that it can make the best out of a players strengths and carve out a role that will maximize what they can do.

This is why many people were able to look great in the triangle, and then go to other teams and look average or below.


Derek Fisher's one year away from the triangle he looked like crap X_X Because it took advantage of the two things he could do well and he became a star off of it. The way Byron runs the triangle/priceton does the same thing. I said a while ago if Price could actually hit his threes it would change the dynamic entirely, he hit two threes a game and that's precisely what it did. Ultimately I expected Lin to start over him, but what Byron was doing in the face of little to no bench support is understandable, and if ones takes off the biased sunglasses they'll understand it too.


Ultimately Lin finished games because Scott trusts him to finish games and know if he wants to put the cap on a game that Lin should be out there with Kobe.

But when it comes to building a rhythm or setting a tone I understand what Byron was doing.

Unlike Mchale I doubt he would yank Lin out of a game when Lin is scoring 35 points and put Price in for the sake of it.

Byron knew what he was doing, setting a defensive and slower tone with the veteran starters, let the bench come in there and run their second unit out of the building as Lin can not only pressure the defense but he can run the break with ease and then mix and match the starters and the bench with whomever is playing best because by then everyone had caught a rhythm. It was a method that looked to be working as the final 3 games of the pre-season, the ones we lost were due to free throws in the grand scheme of things.


People before this season were saying we'd be worse than Sacramento, worse than all these other teams and we went out there with Byron's schemes with Hill, Boozer, Kobe sitting out and put a beatdown on the Kings starters. So maybe Byron actually knows what he's doing here.

And that trailblazers team that sat out Aldridge and played Lillard that we were beating by 13 by halftime with Kobe and Hill sitting went on to put a beatdown on the Clippers whom played their starters and the Blazers still had no Aldridge.

In pre-season you can't take much from it but what you can take are schemes from it and what seems to be working and what doesn't and how Byron had us run triangle/princeton allowed us to force teams to play our pace, not the other way around(which was the case 3 of the first 4 games.


So like I said, maybe.. just maybe.. Scott knows what he's doing. Shame now that one of our better defenders is injured, I just hope that when the bench comes in that they are able to find a rhythm and that Lin won't have to play 37 mins a game to get both units going, that'd be too much this early in the season.



Back to the subject of Julius Randle though.

Kid's a beast. Not much more need be said His patience and poise will take him far if he keeps improving it.


Last edited by MJST on Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:25 pm; edited 6 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
oldschool32 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.


I've been watching him, and I'm not sure if he lost any weight or not, but he's still pudgy. Skilled, yes, but still pudgy.


Here are some highlights from two weeks ago v. the Cavs -


He has lost weight. I guess I'm just not seeing the pudginess.

He does look NBA ready in terms of his moves.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject:

I like Randle over Jabari, but let's not act like Jabari's defense isn't gonna improve in the future (especially once he gets into better shape), if that's the argument you're using for rating Randle above him. Randle's defense is below average right now, too, which is to be expected since he's a 19-year-old rookie.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
oldschool32 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.


I've been watching him, and I'm not sure if he lost any weight or not, but he's still pudgy. Skilled, yes, but still pudgy.


Here are some highlights from two weeks ago v. the Cavs -


He has lost weight. I guess I'm just not seeing the pudginess.


In this video he plays like Randle wants to play but also has more shooting range and is more explosive in the paint. Randle probably can become a better post player but it doesn't sound like he wants to be that guy.

Today its not even close, Jabari is way ahead. Wiggins too.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I'm very interested in this "Jabari is overrated talk" , because maybe i missed something and there actually is some credence to it. When you're being critical of his game, you realize two things -- he settles for low % jumpers a lot; and his jumper is overrated, its barely decent.
I'll be watching his game closely because i do love his potential skillset ; i have a serious infatuation with PFs who can handle, and play an even more perimeter oriented game. But, will he be able tot post up SFs effectively? Need to see high % shots from him.
Comparing him to Randle, the skillset that Randle has brought out since the Summer , it calls for him to be reevaluated as a prospect. Randle is basically the TRUE PF version of Jabari, and that's equated to much less low % shots / coast to coast takes as impressive as Jabari's / an offensive game that is as much of a mismatch for defenders as Jabari. And we'll see how Randle's full perimeter game develops as well, I don't doubt that one day he'll be shooting jumpers on the run, and off of wing type dribble moves.

I think we may be underestimating Randle's new offensive game, and at the same time, putting a below average jumpshooting bad shot taker on an untouchable pedestal.


When I watch Parker, I see a metric ton of "things that lose games". His game is very aesthetically pleasing. He's superb in the areas that your eyes are naturally drawn to. Getting lost on that back screen that causes a chain reaction that allows a wide open shot? Not as easy to catch.

He has a thoroughly developed offensive skill set for his age. That's different than being a good basketball player.


I know we are all lakers fan, and tend to be a bit biased at times but common let's give credit where it's due. Jabari is going to be an elite player in this league, he's certaintely more NBA ready than Julius randle as of today.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
oldschool32 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.


I've been watching him, and I'm not sure if he lost any weight or not, but he's still pudgy. Skilled, yes, but still pudgy.


Here are some highlights from two weeks ago v. the Cavs -


He has lost weight. I guess I'm just not seeing the pudginess.


Jabari has to be the most polished rookie I've ever seen in my lifetime
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
I know we are all lakers fan, and tend to be a bit biased at times but common let's give credit where it's due. Jabari is going to be an elite player in this league, he's certaintely more NBA ready than Julius randle as of today.


Been saying this since before the draft, has nothing to do with him not being a Laker. He's going to be an elite scorer in the league, no doubt. But players should be measured by their ability to help their team get closer to the goal of a win.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
al242 wrote:
I know we are all lakers fan, and tend to be a bit biased at times but common let's give credit where it's due. Jabari is going to be an elite player in this league, he's certaintely more NBA ready than Julius randle as of today.


Been saying this since before the draft, has nothing to do with him not being a Laker. He's going to be an elite scorer in the league, no doubt. But players should be measured by their ability to help their team get closer to the goal of a win.


Understood, so what intangibles does randle have today that would bring his team closer to wins that Jabari does not have?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:58 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
al242 wrote:
I know we are all lakers fan, and tend to be a bit biased at times but common let's give credit where it's due. Jabari is going to be an elite player in this league, he's certaintely more NBA ready than Julius randle as of today.


Been saying this since before the draft, has nothing to do with him not being a Laker. He's going to be an elite scorer in the league, no doubt. But players should be measured by their ability to help their team get closer to the goal of a win.


Understood, so what intangibles does randle have today that would bring his team closer to wins that Jabari does not have?


It's not intangibles. They're actual, measurable things. Randle doesn't get completely lost off of the ball. He's not all that good at it, but Jabari Parker is a James Harden-level defender, if not worse. The single worst defensive player of any major prospect that I've seen since I began closely following the draft in '92. He's a guy who was being substituted out of games in college for defensive purposes on multiple occasions.

Start at 9:30. Jaw-droppingly bad. But he'll score and board, and people will think he's great because of that.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
al242 wrote:
I know we are all lakers fan, and tend to be a bit biased at times but common let's give credit where it's due. Jabari is going to be an elite player in this league, he's certaintely more NBA ready than Julius randle as of today.


Been saying this since before the draft, has nothing to do with him not being a Laker. He's going to be an elite scorer in the league, no doubt. But players should be measured by their ability to help their team get closer to the goal of a win.


Understood, so what intangibles does randle have today that would bring his team closer to wins that Jabari does not have?


IMO none. I've been very disappointed with Randle's rebounding, motor, and defense. IMO due to conditioning.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:

...to be a superstar he will have to do it on defense and he will have to learn how to pass out of the double team.


This was the one thing I was worried about Randle. I had pegged him to be a bit of a blackhole on offense judging from what I saw of him in college. He'd often force shots against double and triple teams, and I thought either he had trouble recognizing the help defense or wasn't a willing passer or perhaps both.

But, the summer league and the preseason dispelled all that. JR's shown that he has great court vision and is a willing passer. This part of his game has been a pleasant and a much welcomed surprise.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
oldschool32 wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Jabari isn't pudgy any more. He's in pretty good shape now. That's an outdated criticism of him.


I've been watching him, and I'm not sure if he lost any weight or not, but he's still pudgy. Skilled, yes, but still pudgy.


Here are some highlights from two weeks ago v. the Cavs -


He has lost weight. I guess I'm just not seeing the pudginess.


Jabari has to be the most polished rookie I've ever seen in my lifetime


Then I'm assuming you're to young to have seen Duncan as a rookie.
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