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ReaListik
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Joined: 08 Jun 2008
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 Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| rybee wrote: | Everyone used to hate on Mitch back in the day calling him Kupcake.
I'm sure Jim will get credit whenever LA gets better again. |
Not if he's ousted.
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kwase
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Joined: 21 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerfan 4 Life wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | http://www.si.com/nba/2015/04/09/matt-barnes-kobe-bryant-lakers-clippers-mitch-kupchak
| Quote: | | “The reason people don’t want to go to the Lakers is because of management,” Barnes tells SI.com. “Kobe can be the scapegoat all they want but if you play hard, Kobe likes you. And if you bulls--- around, he doesn’t. It’s plain and simple. He’s not a vocal leader. He just expects you to play as hard as you can every minute on the court, like he does.” |
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I just saw this article on Yahoo. Seems like Barnes is implying that someone within the FO is blaming Kobe for free agents not wanting to come here. Kind of reminds me when the "insider" said that Kobe is to blame for Shaq leaving here. Anyway, folks on this board always talking about you need someone who's connected with the organization to get your info from, well here ya go. From the research that I've done, you're not going to get someone still on the Lakers payroll to say squat. They all fear for their jobs because apparently Jimbo rules with an iron fist (See firings of long-time employees). So I suggest folks do their own digging like I did. I know what the problem is with the team, and so do the majority of the fans. Whether Jimbo can correct it remains to be seen, but so far his tenure has been like every other endeavor he's been involved in... a complete failure. |
Didn't somebody mention that the insider was Jim Buss? |
Yes, the rumor was that it was Jimbo. Especially after Kobe came on the radio and said he knew exactly who it was. It just so happened to be the same time Jimbo was said to be starting his position within the org. It wasn't looking like we were going to be good that year again, and Kobe was pissed because he turned down other offers to stay with the Lakers on the premise that they would contend. Then there was talks that Jimbo wouldn't trade Bynum for...I can't remember who...and that's where the "Ship his ass out" comment came from. Remember, Shaq had been traded and won a ring, so all of a sudden there was an article that leaked from within the org that the reason Shaq left and they weren't good was because of Kobe. This is just my thinking, but Jimbo could be the person leaking info to the media that it's all Kobe's fault so that he doesn't have to take responsibility. Remember Magic said that he doesn't like to own up to things. |
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Lakers95
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 20880
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim's the one that Dr. Buss apparently groomed, and put in charge of, for basketball operations for this franchise, so by default, he'll get the most blame. It's just the way it is. At the same time though, you do have a point. The FO should all collectively be blamed, or all collectively be praised. Not everything good should be considered Mitch or Jeanie's doing, while everything bad is Jim's. |
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Lakers95
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Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 20880
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | Lakerfan 4 Life wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | http://www.si.com/nba/2015/04/09/matt-barnes-kobe-bryant-lakers-clippers-mitch-kupchak
| Quote: | | “The reason people don’t want to go to the Lakers is because of management,” Barnes tells SI.com. “Kobe can be the scapegoat all they want but if you play hard, Kobe likes you. And if you bulls--- around, he doesn’t. It’s plain and simple. He’s not a vocal leader. He just expects you to play as hard as you can every minute on the court, like he does.” |
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I just saw this article on Yahoo. Seems like Barnes is implying that someone within the FO is blaming Kobe for free agents not wanting to come here. Kind of reminds me when the "insider" said that Kobe is to blame for Shaq leaving here. Anyway, folks on this board always talking about you need someone who's connected with the organization to get your info from, well here ya go. From the research that I've done, you're not going to get someone still on the Lakers payroll to say squat. They all fear for their jobs because apparently Jimbo rules with an iron fist (See firings of long-time employees). So I suggest folks do their own digging like I did. I know what the problem is with the team, and so do the majority of the fans. Whether Jimbo can correct it remains to be seen, but so far his tenure has been like every other endeavor he's been involved in... a complete failure. |
Didn't somebody mention that the insider was Jim Buss? |
Yes, the rumor was that it was Jimbo. Especially after Kobe came on the radio and said he knew exactly who it was. It just so happened to be the same time Jimbo was said to be starting his position within the org. It wasn't looking like we were going to be good that year again, and Kobe was pissed because he turned down other offers to stay with the Lakers on the premise that they would contend. Then there was talks that Jimbo wouldn't trade Bynum for...I can't remember who...and that's where the "Ship his ass out" comment came from. Remember, Shaq had been traded and won a ring, so all of a sudden there was an article that leaked from within the org that the reason Shaq left and they weren't good was because of Kobe. This is just my thinking, but Jimbo could be the person leaking info to the media that it's all Kobe's fault so that he doesn't have to take responsibility. Remember Magic said that he doesn't like to own up to things. |
"(bleep) ing ship his ass out! We're talking about Jason Kidd here!" I was dying of laughter when I first saw that video. The guys who made it tried to sell it for profit too, IIRC. 
(bleep), that offseason was so hectic, with the KG/JO rumors and all of the "Kobe wants out" talk, but that was one of the most entertaining summers ever. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Because he's relatively new compared to 30 years of his father being the guy in the same seat.
The team took the same big stakes gambles it always does. They just didn't pay out. No different than what happened when those same gambles didn't work out in years past.
They'll keep doing the same thing. One or two big hits and this will all be forgotten until the next time they don't hit it big. No different than in years past. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I have mentioned this, but people have a lot of fun whining about anything and creating premature drama... the greatness of Dr.Buss has made most Laker fans spoiled... but don't realize that even the great Dr. Buss made a few mistakes under his belt..... Jim Buss is still grooming to be a great owner.... why not let it all hang out instead of pointing fingers when you feel like it? |
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Legacy
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Joined: 17 Sep 2005
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Location: So. Californ-I-A
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasn't Jim Buss also the guy who wanted Bynum? Someone confirm or deny this one please. I can't remember. |
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JoJo Dancer
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Joined: 25 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| It's simple. Jimbo 2 years as head of basketball operations/owner= The 2 worst records in Los Angeles franchise history. |
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Legacy
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Location: So. Californ-I-A
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Why are people Blaming Jim Buss?? |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | King Nupe wrote: | Sign Dantoni...Yay Mitch, he will be great with Nash!
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Who said this?  |
People were saying those comments at the time. Don't you remember folks saying Dwight would be a better version of Amare S. under D'Antoni and next to Nash? I don't think it was everyone's first choice as a majority, but when we passed on Phil and got D'Antoni instead, it was more like, "Well here's the silver lining".
But as someone pointed out already, sadly, it was the beginning of the end. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to LG
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JIFISH
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 9315
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Why are people Blaming Jim Buss?? |
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| King Nupe wrote: | I've been lurking off an on for the last few years, and I never could understand how loyal Laker fans are so willing to turn on the owner of the Lakers. I mean, lets re-hash all the moves he and Mitch have made since he took over.
Traded for CP3.... Yay Mitch is Awesome!
Lost CP3 in Veto....Jim Buss is the worst ever. Burn him at the stake!
Trade for Dwight Howard....Yay! Mitch!!!!
Trade for Nash.....Yay Mitch, You're the man!
Sign Dantoni...Yay Mitch, he will be great with Nash!
Lakers have ridiculous injuries ....Jim is dumb!!
Let Howard go (Which winded up being the right move) Jim Buss is an idiot!
Nash breaks his leg ...Jim Buss is an Idiot, lets call him JIMBO now!
Lakers get Draft Julius Randle....Mitch is the God of GM's!!!!
Julius breaks leg....It's Jim's fault...Stephen A SMith said so!!!!
Am I wrong on this? Are you guys really that short sighted to see that Jim actually knows what the hell he's doing, it's just that injuries have really hampered the plans.
You guys are lauding the Clippers, Rockets, and other teams, but None of those teams have won a championship. SMH.... |
Excuse me?
Every Laker fan I know at the very least knew that D'Antoni wasn't a good fit for anyone on the team, including a past his prime Steve Nash.
Maybe you and your friends didn't go to bed one night with visions of the return of Phil Jackson dancing in your head, only to wake up and find out our aging, half court team was going to be coached by Mr Run and Gun, Shoot in seven seconds or less. But I remember the shock and disbelief on every Lakers fan I knew when I told them who Jim and Mitch had picked to save us from the long nightmare that was Mike Brown (also a Jim Buss pick).
And most of the injuries our players have suffered are injuries that have become all too common place from teams playing what has come to be known as the DAntoni style offense.
I personally don't praise any team at the moment, and I've never understood how anyone who likes the game of basketball could ever be a Clippers fan, but while I am also no fan of the Rockets, I think you may be wrong about them never having won a championship. It was back in the early 90s, but they did win at least one.
So in answer to your question "Am I wrong on this?", I can only say that from my perspective, you most definitely are.
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Irie
Sixth Man
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Why are people Blaming Jim Buss?? |
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| King Nupe wrote: | I've been lurking off an on for the last few years, and I never could understand how loyal Laker fans are so willing to turn on the owner of the Lakers. I mean, lets re-hash all the moves he and Mitch have made since he took over.
Traded for CP3.... Yay Mitch is Awesome!
Lost CP3 in Veto....Jim Buss is the worst ever. Burn him at the stake!
Trade for Dwight Howard....Yay! Mitch!!!!
Trade for Nash.....Yay Mitch, You're the man!
Sign Dantoni...Yay Mitch, he will be great with Nash!
Lakers have ridiculous injuries ....Jim is dumb!!
Let Howard go (Which winded up being the right move) Jim Buss is an idiot!
Nash breaks his leg ...Jim Buss is an Idiot, lets call him JIMBO now!
Lakers get Draft Julius Randle....Mitch is the God of GM's!!!!
Julius breaks leg....It's Jim's fault...Stephen A SMith said so!!!!
Am I wrong on this? Are you guys really that short sighted to see that Jim actually knows what the hell he's doing, it's just that injuries have really hampered the plans.
You guys are lauding the Clippers, Rockets, and other teams, but None of those teams have won a championship. SMH.... |
Jim?
who knows what is going on in the front office of the Lakers. My understanding is Jim made the decision to go with DantonI rather than Phil. That made it seem he was making the calls. From Nash to Dantoni and Howard. After it fell hard, Mitch gained some of that authority resulting in the the hiring of Scott. Who knows? Magic said it. Kobe said it. Jeanie said it. so it must be your fault. |
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vmm
Starting Rotation
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Posts: 416
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| He would be getting the credit if they weren't having historically bad seasons. Yes he made the CP3 trade, but in their arrogance they turned down what would have been a great trade with Houston in the aftermath of "basketball reasons." Now that may just be hindsight though the decisions to hire D'Antoni and Brown are what is inexcusable. Being fleeced by the Suns for a very old Steve Nash was also criminal. And if I recall correctly, didn't Buss essentially gut the scouting department. I thought a recent article talked about how the Lakers were woefully inadequate when it came to the scouting side of things. The embarrassing billboards to keep Dwight Howard here. Perhaps not trading Dwight when everyone with half a brain out there knew that he wasn't going to stay and letting him leave without getting any assets in return. No more Jerry West to bail things out. You can argue and debate about things, but at the end of the day, Jim has presided over two of the worst seasons this franchise proud franchise has ever had. Just my two cents. |
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vmm
Starting Rotation
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Another thing... maybe the triangle is played out and not really applicable to the modern game unless one has an uber talented team. To think that they could play a fast break D'Antoni style offense with a much older team was crazy. And the coaching hire was made because of the trade for a nearly 40 year old point guard. Insane stuff. I just can't help but think that Jim was trying really hard to get out from the shadow of Phil Jackson. We can go on about hubris but I think we clearly would have been better off with Phil than with any of the other coaches. Certainly would have had better luck with bringing in free agents. Just another 2 cents. |
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Theseus
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Joined: 15 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Because people think someone needs to be blamed, that actually changes things in their minds |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Fans need a scapegoat. The reality is that Jim was doing what he's doing now when his father was still alive, though Dr. Buss always had the final say. It wouldn't matter if it were Jim or Jerry at this point because the Lakers collapse was the result of:
a) Kobe not being Kobe since shortly after Dr. Buss died due to the achilles injury.
b) Nash never being the player they needed him to be.
c) Howard seeing A and B and deciding to bolt.
d) The Lakers stacking veteran assets at the expense of draft picks to try to eek more titles out of the Kobe era.
e) If you want to trace back further, the Chris Paul veto is kind of what put them in the position to gamble on Nash.
If Dr. Buss had found the miracle cure and continued to live, all of the above would still be the case. D is the important one. The Lakers were making moves to try to win titles, and it didn't work out. They could have opted to try to get better last summer by signing some mid tier guys instead of just swinging for the fences and then preserving cap space, but if they had then they wouldn't have what is likely a top 5 pick coming this season, and they would have still probably missed the playoffs.
The Lakers having to rebuild after the above things happened was inevitable. I think all things considered they are not in a bad position moving forward. They have significant cap space in each of the next two seasons, some good young talent, and in all likelihood will add more promising your talent next summer, along with some veteran free agent signings.
If the Lakers turn it around and win some titles things will be forgotten. And the hate for Jim will look a lot like the hate for Mitch a decade ago. The pressure is on him (and Mitch) to make sure that happens. |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:37 am Post subject: |
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People blame Jim for the his repeated poor decision making in hiring coaches. It has been an unmitigated disaster
People blame Jim because he has been called out by the media and former employees (Brian Shaw, Ronnie Lester, etc.), players (ie. Magic, Matt Barnes, etc), for his management style and decisions.
People blame Jim because this franchise has suffered the worse two year in this franchise history. Ever since Jerry Buss purchased the Laker this franchise has never been this bad.
People blame Jim because Jim makes public statement that he should be blamed and that he will resign if this team does not make the WCF in the next few years. In other words, he tells people to blame him. |
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BROW GOAT 23
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Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 2763
Location: Puerto Rico
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Why are people Blaming Jim Buss?? |
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| King Nupe wrote: | I've been lurking off an on for the last few years, and I never could understand how loyal Laker fans are so willing to turn on the owner of the Lakers. I mean, lets re-hash all the moves he and Mitch have made since he took over.
Traded for CP3.... Yay Mitch is Awesome!
Lost CP3 in Veto....Jim Buss is the worst ever. Burn him at the stake!
Trade for Dwight Howard....Yay! Mitch!!!!
Trade for Nash.....Yay Mitch, You're the man!
Sign Dantoni...Yay Mitch, he will be great with Nash!
Lakers have ridiculous injuries ....Jim is dumb!!
Let Howard go (Which winded up being the right move) Jim Buss is an idiot!
Nash breaks his leg ...Jim Buss is an Idiot, lets call him JIMBO now!
Lakers get Draft Julius Randle....Mitch is the God of GM's!!!!
Julius breaks leg....It's Jim's fault...Stephen A SMith said so!!!!
Am I wrong on this? Are you guys really that short sighted to see that Jim actually knows what the hell he's doing, it's just that injuries have really hampered the plans.
You guys are lauding the Clippers, Rockets, and other teams, but None of those teams have won a championship. SMH.... |
Completely agree with you. Best post ever. 
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King Randle
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Have u not watched the last 2 years? |
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bandiger
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Joined: 02 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Head of basketball operations two of the worst seasons ever, let's blame everyone else but him. |
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Hector the Pup
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | Head of basketball operations two of the worst seasons ever, let's blame everyone else but him. |
Or use logic on a level slightly higher than that of a kindergartner and realize that multiple things went wrong, not all of which can be attributed to one person or in some cases anyone at all. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | Head of basketball operations two of the worst seasons ever, let's blame everyone else but him. |
Who else is being blamed? The reality is that some of the things that happened with the Lakers roster were inevitable. After you win titles, there will be a lull while you rebuild. It happened sooner than they thought it would due to Kobe and Nash going down with Howard and Gasol jumping ship. But a rebuild was going to happen. There is no avoiding that. |
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | bandiger wrote: | | Head of basketball operations two of the worst seasons ever, let's blame everyone else but him. |
Or use logic on a level slightly higher than that of a kindergartner and realize that multiple things went wrong, not all of which can be attributed to one person or in some cases anyone at all. |
When you are in charge, and things screw up, it is intact your fault. No two ways about it, even acts of God cannot be excused. If things went wrong on your watch, you need to take the blame. If he wasn't the owner, he wouldn't be VP of basketball operations. Simple as that.
To use your analogy... this is not kindergarten, you don't get an award for trying. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Why are people Blaming Jim Buss?? |
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| kwase wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | King Nupe wrote: | Sign Dantoni...Yay Mitch, he will be great with Nash!
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Who said this? |
I know I didn't. That's the bone-headed move that has us where we are today.
OP, do your homework on Jimbo. There's an SI documentary that came out over 10 years ago. That's a good place to start. |
10 years ago the Lakers were winning titles, so not sure I get your point. But as always, people have to blame someone, common sense be damned. It was Mitch, and the supreme idiots here actually had the nerve to blame Dr. Buss at one point. As Forest said, stupid is as stupid does.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Have u not watched the last 2 years? |
Perfect example of the "what have you done for me lately" spoiled fan. Dammit, we should compete for a title every season! Doing so for only 17-18 years is terrible!
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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