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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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 Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | It's actually more of a slight to Dwight/Harden. What Morey is saying - I need another star, and I will go shopping in 2015 or 2016 for Aldridge, or Durant ot whomever is a FA all-star at the time.
If he really believed Howard/Harden could win as a 1-2 punch, he wouldn't be passing on paying players around him. |
Good point |
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | It's actually more of a slight to Dwight/Harden. What Morey is saying - I need another star, and I will go shopping in 2015 or 2016 for Aldridge, or Durant ot whomever is a FA all-star at the time.
If he really believed Howard/Harden could win as a 1-2 punch, he wouldn't be passing on paying players around him. |
No, what he's saying is the same thing he said all year, that he needs a high impact 3rd player and Parsons isn't it (he would have been the least important starter had Bosh signed), like OKC have in Ibaka, and the Clippers have in DJ, and the Heat had in Bosh (The Spurs have unprecedented depth for a capped sport, but that's all built on discounts, so you can't replicate that).
If it was an indictment on them, it would be Lebron/Durant or bust, as it is, the two of them wouldn't just need to be better, they would need to be significantly better than KD/WB and CP3/BG to bridge that 3rd player gap. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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I actually think this would help them if they get players that play defense. Ariza has been inconsistent in his career. If they get the version that can hit shots from outside and play D, they're better at SF. Don't know their plans at PF/PG, but when you have 2 superstars, one who is a ball dominant guard and one who thinks he's a great low post player, you need to feed the ego. Parsons, Lin etc. they took quite a few touches away from Harden on the perimeter. James is weird in that he plays his best when the offense is completely run through him. That is certainly now what will happen. It's all Dwight/Harden all the time. If they get the right role players who defend and shoot well, they can be very good.
Don't forget that this was a team that lost in the 1st round last year. And at 15 M Parsons would be overpaid. Still, seems they've gone from a very talented team to basically 2 stars and strictly role players. They went from a lock to be a top 4 West team in terms of talent, to probably a team that's closer to top 7-8 in the West in terms of talent. Their lack of depth will be very tough to overcome in the regular season. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I actually think this would help them if they get players that play defense. Ariza has been inconsistent in his career. If they get the version that can hit shots from outside and play D, they're better at SF. Don't know their plans at PF/PG, but when you have 2 superstars, one who is a ball dominant guard and one who thinks he's a great low post player, you need to feed the ego. Parsons, Lin etc. they took quite a few touches away from Harden on the perimeter. James is weird in that he plays his best when the offense is completely run through him. That is certainly now what will happen. It's all Dwight/Harden all the time. If they get the right role players who defend and shoot well, they can be very good.
Don't forget that this was a team that lost in the 1st round last year. And at 15 M Parsons would be overpaid. Still, seems they've gone from a very talented team to basically 2 stars and strictly role players. They went from a lock to be a top 4 West team in terms of talent, to probably a team that's closer to top 7-8 in the West in terms of talent. Their lack of depth will be very tough to overcome in the regular season. |
I actually don't think we have lost much in terms of talent. Asik was either absent or not engaged for the majority of the season, and Lin isn't tough to replace. Parsons is better than Ariza but it's not a major difference. Ariza is better defensively while Parsons is better offensively. The team is pretty much where they were last season. The only thing that upsets me is we gave away assets to be in the same position. That you can't do.
You are spot on that all the panic speaks volumes about Howard and Harden though. The world shouldn't end if you have two top 10 players. Since when is two stars, a pivot and a scoring guard at that, not enough to build around? |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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You lost major depth. There were countless games Dwight missed last year and Asik started. It also helps when you have a C who can come in for Dwight and you don't lose a beat on D. That won't happen next year.
I know neither Asik/Lin are core players or were such for your team last year. But I think you are selling their impact short. The RS you need depth and more than 2 really talented players. In the playoffs that's when the core comes into play, and yes Lin/Asik were practically worthless. But RS wise? Depth is quite important.
I don't see how you can argue that replacing Asik/Lin with Ariza means you didn't downgrade in overall talent. You've also lost Casspi, who gave some significant minutes.
Take off the glasses, Dream. Morey messed up big time, unless he can somehow land a major player in FA in 2015 or 2016, this wasn't worth it at all. You're almost assured not to win a title next year. I don't see Houston even finishing in the top 4 anymore. They'll make the playoffs - but Parsons gave your team 16/5 last year. Lin gave your team 11/6. Asik was arguably the best backup C in the league. In the RS. You've not replaced that. If you think you have, IMO you're wearing homer glasses on. Houston's probably in the 48-52 win category next year vs 54-58 they were this past season. I don't see them competing at all for the top 2 seeds like they did most of this year. That said, they've got a great chance at being better in the playoffs because as you say, Ariza's better than Parsons on D and Asik/Lin weren't suited to play with Howard/Harden. |
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Jackobe
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Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 4466
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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karma is a (bleep). 
That's what Rockets get for disrespecting a religious christian like Jeremy Lin.
Also karma for signing a (bleep) like Dwight Coward.
So happy to see Rockets stuck in another mediocre for another season. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 3983
Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait for the bomb to start ticking after a few losses mount up. The Dwightmare will begin again. |
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Christopher C
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Asik was crucial in guarding LaMarcus Aldridge. LA was torching the Rockets, including Dwight. It was only until McHale inserted Asik to defend LA that LA's shooting percentage dipped. |
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| TheJellosJigglin' wrote: | | Asik was crucial in guarding LaMarcus Aldridge. LA was torching the Rockets, including Dwight. It was only until McHale inserted Asik to defend LA that LA's shooting percentage dipped. |
Aldridge and Lillard shot unsustainable percentages, but that was never the issue after Bosh pump faked, it was that they wouldn't have the support cast around to challenge OKC and the Clippers regardless, stay 4th and lock yourselves in long term to that, or drop to maybe 5th but allow yourself the ability to jump to 1 or 2. The Lakers had 35 reasons, or was it 42 for helping Houston get Bosh, but for Dwight, he'd still be in Orlando if he was cool with teams giving albatrosses to role players to tread water at the 3/4 seed. |
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Buck32
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Joined: 30 Apr 2001
Posts: 7325
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Jackobe wrote: | karma is a (bleep).
That's what Rockets get for disrespecting a religious christian like Jeremy Lin.
Also karma for signing a (bleep) like Dwight Coward.
So happy to see Rockets stuck in another mediocre for another season. |
That's some petty god you have there. Shouldn't he be taking care of more serious problems, like I don't know, like WAR, and hunger?
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22839
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| If Kobe is back to form, and Randle is a stud.... really how much better are the Rockets? I think Rockets will teeter around 6 to 8 to possibly missing playoffs next year. The pattern with the deep West has always been a few steps forward, a few steps back for some of the teams. Case in point, the Blazers were on the brink of something in 10-11, then all of a sudden fell off the map in 12-13, then came back to life again last season. Phoenix has been teetering forever. I vote the Rockets as the "few steps back" team for next season. But I hope they squeak in as the 8th seed so we can get the best possible first round pick from them. |
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Koalita
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Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 902
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| I feel Lin, Parsons and Asik were not good fits with the show runners Harden & Howard. But parting ways with them (and a 1st round pick) for nothing is NOT a good job. Even if they didn't fit that well, they still gave the team some quality and depth. Next year, H&H will shine more, but will HOU win more? I doubt it. But their stars will shine more, with a supporting cast better suited for them. I just doubt H&H are enough to land a championship. |
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ComputerBlue
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Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1872
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Buck32 wrote: | | That's some petty god you have there. Shouldn't he be taking care of more serious problems, like I don't know, like WAR, and hunger? |
Tell Him how you feel.
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Telleris
Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Koalita wrote: | | I feel Lin, Parsons and Asik were not good fits with the show runners Harden & Howard. But parting ways with them (and a 1st round pick) for nothing is NOT a good job. Even if they didn't fit that well, they still gave the team some quality and depth. Next year, H&H will shine more, but will HOU win more? I doubt it. But their stars will shine more, with a supporting cast better suited for them. I just doubt H&H are enough to land a championship. |
Needed a better wing defender, which Ariza is. Didn't need an all nba defender, which would certainly help further (but Ariza isn't), whilst Harden was lazy, Parsons was bad and Lin was lost in rotation (which is why when Dwight and Bev were out, they free fell from 8th to 12th defensively in the last 3 weeks of the season), not winning anything with a $50m roster though. |
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chubby_1_kenobi
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1450
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Ariza:
09' Contract year - played well for the Lakers - got 30+ million from Houston
10' Dissapointing season
11' Dissapointing season
12' Dissapointing season
13' Dissapointing season
14' Contract year - played well for the Wizards - got 30+ million from Houston
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Eighth grade key phrases are crucial tools for this type of subterfuge: "team player", "make teammates better", "ballhog", "selfish", "court vision": all dripping with sanctimony and defamation. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Do your bidding Ariza.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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numero-ocho
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18201
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | By letting Parsons go, the Rockets could have up to max cap room (depending on the next salary cap) next summer, and a substantial trade exception this season to position themselves to build in the ways they could not this week and the draft pick from the New Orleans Pelicans set up nearly identically to the pick that brought them James Harden. - Jonathan Feigen |
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"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
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thegreatest
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Joined: 02 Sep 2002
Posts: 9911
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | By letting Parsons go, the Rockets could have up to max cap room (depending on the next salary cap) next summer, and a substantial trade exception this season to position themselves to build in the ways they could not this week and the draft pick from the New Orleans Pelicans set up nearly identically to the pick that brought them James Harden. - Jonathan Feigen |
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That is only if they decide to punt the year and wait. No FA of quality is going to take a 1 year deal unless they are over paid. I don't think there are FA left that they could justify over paying. Even then, they would need to dump Ariza to get that.
Houston should have kept Parsons and offered him an extension in the fall. If he balked, trade him and get assets. They would have been better served to get Ariza, then trade Parsons, Jones, and Pelicans pick for Love. Use Lin to a third team (Lakers) to make the trade work cap wise.
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"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
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Last edited by thegreatest on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | You lost major depth. There were countless games Dwight missed last year and Asik started. |
Howard missed 11 games, mostly towards the end of the season when he could have played if necessary. That's countless? A lot of Asik's starts came in the beginning of the season we tried to feature a twin towers combo, which didn't work. Then he pouted, got hurt and went on the trade block, and came back towards the end of the year. We were witout Asik for most of the season Here is his game log.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/asikom01/gamelog/2014/
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
It also helps when you have a C who can come in for Dwight and you don't lose a beat on D. That won't happen next year. |
Agreed. But that luxury isn't worth $15M.
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
I know neither Asik/Lin are core players or were such for your team last year. But I think you are selling their impact short. The RS you need depth and more than 2 really talented players. In the playoffs that's when the core comes into play, and yes Lin/Asik were practically worthless. But RS wise? Depth is quite important. |
RS wise we were without an impactful Asik for most of it, and I don't think what Lin brought will be hard to replace.
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
I don't see how you can argue that replacing Asik/Lin with Ariza means you didn't downgrade in overall talent. You've also lost Casspi, who gave some significant minutes. |
I never said that. I said Asik wasn't a contributor for most of the season and what Lin provided can be replaced. The same goes for Casspi. He was bumped from the rotation once we brought Jordan Hamilton in.
| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
Take off the glasses, Dream. Morey messed up big time |
I believe I said he messed up by giving away assets for nothing. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38775
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ariza:
09' Contract year - played well for the Lakers - got 30+ million from Houston
10' Dissapointing season
11' Dissapointing season
12' Dissapointing season
13' Dissapointing season
14' Contract year - played well for the Wizards - got 30+ million from Houston
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The definition of a contract player. Ariza got a 2 million dollar annual raise from the Rockets this time. Wonder how long they will keep him around this time. They only kept him for 1 season before they pawned him off to New Orleans last time. |
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ExPatLkrFan
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 3983
Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | By letting Parsons go, the Rockets could have up to max cap room (depending on the next salary cap) next summer, and a substantial trade exception this season to position themselves to build in the ways they could not this week and the draft pick from the New Orleans Pelicans set up nearly identically to the pick that brought them James Harden. - Jonathan Feigen |
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Morey had max cap room this year. How did that work for him. As of now they have Moitejunas as their back up to brokeback Dwight and Jones. No back up for Beverly. Tell me they are the same quality team. They have about 6 mill to plug those holes. Good luck Dork Elvis. |
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lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Ariza:
09' Contract year - played well for the Lakers - got 30+ million from Houston
10' Dissapointing season
11' Dissapointing season
12' Dissapointing season
13' Dissapointing season
14' Contract year - played well for the Wizards - got 30+ million from Houston
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The definition of a contract player. Ariza got a 2 million dollar annual raise from the Rockets this time. Wonder how long they will keep him around this time. They only kept him for 1 season before they pawned him off to New Orleans last time. |
Tim Thomas part 2. |
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numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18201
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The Houston Rockets acquired point guard Jonny Flynn and Lithuanian big man Donatas Motiejunas in a trade with Minnesota during Thursday night's NBA draft and sent center Brad Miller and the 23rd pick to the Timberwolves.
The Rockets sent the rights to Nikola Mirotic, the 23rd pick, and No. 38, along with Miller and a 2013 first-round pick, to acquire Flynn and Montiejunas. |
Wonder if this one is going to come back to bite them. No. 38 was Chandler Parsons whom the Wolves sent back to the Rockets for cash.
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"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
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Wags_16
Star Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 3684
Location: East Bay, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| 24KaratGold wrote: | Winner: Bosh
Highest-paid player in the NBA next year? Check
Gets to stay in Miami? Check
Gets to be the best player on his team? Check
His team will still contend for a 3 or 4 seed in the East? Check |
Still a fraud... |
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Boozered!
I love it! Keep failing Rockets I want a top 20 pick next year. |
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