Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year?
Off the top of my head..
Stephen Curry
Damian Lilliard
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Goran Dragic
Kyrie Irving
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Michael Carter-Williams
Russell Westbrook
I'm probably missing an obvious one..
Out of those 10 players which one could Jeremy Lin potentially knock out of the top 10?
Top 20 easily.. top 10? He'd have to channel Linsanity pretty much for the entire season lol.
I think he can be better than Conley, dragic, MCW, Lillard and wall. Just sayin.
Well MCW isn't a top 10 PG either. And no those guys are all better. I could maybe see him getting close to Dragic if he plays really well but I still think Dragic will be better.
Top PG IMO no particular order:
Elite:
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Drose (if healthy)
Rondo
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
All star:
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Ty Lawson
Bledsoe (if healthy)
Good/decent:
Kemba Walker
Jeff Teague
Rubio
Lin
Calderon
MCW
Personally, I think Lin is in that second group and taking out how they were used and valued, I'd say he'd be at least in the middle if that pack pushing the top 10 after this year with a higher ceiling than Dragic and the like.
I can't speak for others; but I know that my dislike of Harden has been because I felt like he was a manufactured star.
He's definitely a skilled player; but I don't believe him to be a superstar. He makes a living off of ticky-tack foul calls. The amount of flopping he does is amazing.
In the playoffs, those ticky-tack fouls aren't called as often; and we see his production and efficiency go down. The real Harden is a good player, but not near the superstar player that we're supposed to believe he is.
Real stars still contribute even when they are having off games. Harden doesn't have anything to contribute when he's not getting the calls. He doesn't pick up his defense, block shots or work his a$$ off. And real superstars make their teammates better - I don't think Harden does.
I agree with you except the bolded part. Making your teammates better is probably the most overrated term in basketball. Your teammates have to get better on their own in the offseason. Merely passing them the ball is not going to change what type of player they are. That term "make your teammates better" was popularized when Steve Nash received those 2 MVPS that he didnt deserve. That term was constantly mentioned by the media to justify Nash's MVPS. Lebron is a good example. Did he make his teammates better in this years playoffs? Nope. Lebron made Lebron better. He is playing with Wade and Bosh. Not Varejao or Mo Williams but somehow his Miami teammates got worse.
I'm just going to go ahead and assume that you haven't watched Magic play live. Without a doubt the Magic Man made everyone better. Everyone played harder, shot with more confidence, played with a mission, all felt like they were contributing significantly, and gave more than they had. It was palpable. Magic and Larry played it the right way, and it made everyone better.
That is why, even as a die hard Lakers fan, calling in to Stu at 570am after every game in the Showtime era, and not missing any game, I almost gave up on Kobe. It's all about playing the right way.
Which leads me to Lin. Lin may not be as talented as the greats but he plays the right way. Hers a quote from the Admiral which captures my thoughts on Lin.
David Robinson: "You know i'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the tv to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win. who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something that je ne se quois...it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level.
Wow. I think i saw a video on David saying why is it that Jeremy Lin, a kid who only played a great game in a month, gets more accolades/recognition/hype more than Tim Duncan who has been playing his best game for years now. And then he says this? Now I'm confuse. _________________ == WILL TRY TO IGNORE IDIOTIC POST ABOVE==
R.Hibbert, wearing purple & gold next year = my pipe-dream... Lolz
JEREMY SHOULD MAKE A STICKY POST IT FOR PLAYERS THAT HE WANTS TO KNOCK OFF THIS PG LIST.
Just saying, having an ambition to outplay a damn good player never hurts an athlete
Lol, very out of topic, I just remembered how Arya Stark was so coldblooded with the hound, since he was on her list, when he was dying, she didn't even bat an eyelash.
If i hadn't already seen it, I would be soooooo pissed right now LOL.
He will try to climb up that All Star status even if he injures himself trying since he's an ambitious person (because how else can a kid who went through different struggles everyday can still be here when others couldn't even make it?)
Would be interesting to watch later on if he can.
If not, I will still applaud the kid for even trying to do what he can't do. _________________ == WILL TRY TO IGNORE IDIOTIC POST ABOVE==
R.Hibbert, wearing purple & gold next year = my pipe-dream... Lolz
JEREMY SHOULD MAKE A STICKY POST IT FOR PLAYERS THAT HE WANTS TO KNOCK OFF THIS PG LIST.
Just saying, having an ambition to outplay a damn good player never hurts an athlete
Lol, very out of topic, I just remembered how Arya Stark was so coldblooded with the hound, since he was on her list, when he was dying, she didn't even bat an eyelash.
If i hadn't already seen it, I would be soooooo pissed right now LOL.
Hahaha! i'm relieved you already saw it! Lol _________________ == WILL TRY TO IGNORE IDIOTIC POST ABOVE==
R.Hibbert, wearing purple & gold next year = my pipe-dream... Lolz
Wow. I think i saw a video on David saying why is it that Jeremy Lin, a kid who only played a great game in a month, gets more accolades/recognition/hype more than Tim Duncan who has been playing his best game for years now. And then he says this? Now I'm confuse.
I'd be confused to but, its best to wait and watch next season play out and actually spend time to watch his games, look at the numbers and see how he contributes to the Lakers as a team.
A lot of nba legends and coaches have said some very good things about Lin and he did hold Lillard to zero points in the 4th quarter of that series ending game, for 11 minutes and 59 seconds. Until he was subbed out, everyone knows what Lillard did after that.
You just don't do the things he did in the NBA for 1 month in a shortened season where they were playing that many games each week, unless you got something under that hood.
Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year?
Are you talking from a stats standpoint? Maybe.
But he's not a top 10 PG. He's barely top 20 IMO.
Now if he can put up big numbers while the team reaches the playoffs, then he'll be in the convo for top ten.
I like Lin and he's one of my 3 favorite players in the league after Kobe and Drose, but I'm a realist. He's not a top 10 PG. Especially with how stacked the position is around the league
If he puts up top 10 pg stats with this team, you wouldn't consider him a top 10 PG?
You're only a top 10 PG if you can put up top 10 stats on a good team. Or at least a decent team. If Lin puts up 18/7 this year but we're horrible, no he's not a top 10 PG.
Brandon Knight averaged 18 a game on the Bucks. I'd barely put him in my top 25 PGs
Let me tell you this .. If Lin is averaging top 10 stats, the lakers won't be horrible. I mean Dragic didn't even make the playoffs last year and now he is regarded in the top 10 in some circles.
Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year?
Off the top of my head..
Stephen Curry
Damian Lilliard
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Goran Dragic
Kyrie Irving
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Michael Carter-Williams
Russell Westbrook
I'm probably missing an obvious one..
Out of those 10 players which one could Jeremy Lin potentially knock out of the top 10?
Top 20 easily.. top 10? He'd have to channel Linsanity pretty much for the entire season lol.
I think he can be better than Conley, dragic, MCW, Lillard and wall. Just sayin.
Really?
Are you willing to "go on record" saying that?
Lol sorry.. just a little gripe I have on here.
I hope he lives up to that! That'd be a STEAL for the Lakers!
I still can't get over how badly Houston's off-season turned out lol.
Gave up Asik.
Gave up Lin AND 1st rounder
Let Chandler Parsons walk.
Struck out on Carmelo Anthony AND Chris Bosh
Added Trevor Ariza, Nick Johnson (who I'm high on) brought back Troy Daniels.
That, most definitely, isn't anywhere CLOSE to a championship contending team.
I honestly believe that under the right circumstances, Lin will be better than these players - and the right circumstance would be something like Dragic had last year.
Again, this is purely based on my view of his potential and not what he has accomplished or showed in Houston.
I think he can average 17/7 easily and with teams success, he will be considered in the upper tier category.
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12228 Location: The Two One Three
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject:
ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
What does going on record here do exactly? I've never understood that phrase in terms of message boards. Is it like.. bragging rights in case you were right? Like.. isn't everything on the internet on a message board 'on the record' lol.
Sorry. /end my jeff van gundy rant.
Jeremy Lin is going to be good for the Lakers. If you can lock him up after next season for less than 7 million a year.. I'd call that a win.
Lol....talk about B&Ming about the small things in life.
I was more or less using the term as a figure of speech. And in this case, recognizing the fact that I was repeating myself because I was doing just that, repeating myself. It would be pretty petty of me to revel and take pride in being right about something especially considering that many here have the same sentiments as myself.
I do hope you feel better, tho, in getting that off your chest. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse.
Last edited by Hard_Butter on Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3820 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:47 pm Post subject:
Pgforlife wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
jlinfan wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
I can't speak for others; but I know that my dislike of Harden has been because I felt like he was a manufactured star.
He's definitely a skilled player; but I don't believe him to be a superstar. He makes a living off of ticky-tack foul calls. The amount of flopping he does is amazing.
In the playoffs, those ticky-tack fouls aren't called as often; and we see his production and efficiency go down. The real Harden is a good player, but not near the superstar player that we're supposed to believe he is.
Real stars still contribute even when they are having off games. Harden doesn't have anything to contribute when he's not getting the calls. He doesn't pick up his defense, block shots or work his a$$ off. And real superstars make their teammates better - I don't think Harden does.
I agree with you except the bolded part. Making your teammates better is probably the most overrated term in basketball. Your teammates have to get better on their own in the offseason. Merely passing them the ball is not going to change what type of player they are. That term "make your teammates better" was popularized when Steve Nash received those 2 MVPS that he didnt deserve. That term was constantly mentioned by the media to justify Nash's MVPS. Lebron is a good example. Did he make his teammates better in this years playoffs? Nope. Lebron made Lebron better. He is playing with Wade and Bosh. Not Varejao or Mo Williams but somehow his Miami teammates got worse.
I'm just going to go ahead and assume that you haven't watched Magic play live. Without a doubt the Magic Man made everyone better. Everyone played harder, shot with more confidence, played with a mission, all felt like they were contributing significantly, and gave more than they had. It was palpable. Magic and Larry played it the right way, and it made everyone better.
That is why, even as a die hard Lakers fan, calling in to Stu at 570am after every game in the Showtime era, and not missing any game, I almost gave up on Kobe. It's all about playing the right way.
Which leads me to Lin. Lin may not be as talented as the greats but he plays the right way. Hers a quote from the Admiral which captures my thoughts on Lin.
David Robinson: "You know i'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the tv to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win. who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something that je ne se quois...it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level.
I'm 40 so don't assume anything. Die hard Laker fans don't give up on their franchise player specially when he is an all time great. Guess you were a Shaq guy eh? So Lin got you to come back to the Lakers after all these years that you had to sign up to LG?
I think he can be better than Darius Morris ... _________________ “Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.”
― Isaac Asimov
I can't speak for others; but I know that my dislike of Harden has been because I felt like he was a manufactured star.
He's definitely a skilled player; but I don't believe him to be a superstar. He makes a living off of ticky-tack foul calls. The amount of flopping he does is amazing.
In the playoffs, those ticky-tack fouls aren't called as often; and we see his production and efficiency go down. The real Harden is a good player, but not near the superstar player that we're supposed to believe he is.
Real stars still contribute even when they are having off games. Harden doesn't have anything to contribute when he's not getting the calls. He doesn't pick up his defense, block shots or work his a$$ off. And real superstars make their teammates better - I don't think Harden does.
I agree with you except the bolded part. Making your teammates better is probably the most overrated term in basketball. Your teammates have to get better on their own in the offseason. Merely passing them the ball is not going to change what type of player they are. That term "make your teammates better" was popularized when Steve Nash received those 2 MVPS that he didnt deserve. That term was constantly mentioned by the media to justify Nash's MVPS. Lebron is a good example. Did he make his teammates better in this years playoffs? Nope. Lebron made Lebron better. He is playing with Wade and Bosh. Not Varejao or Mo Williams but somehow his Miami teammates got worse.
I'm just going to go ahead and assume that you haven't watched Magic play live. Without a doubt the Magic Man made everyone better. Everyone played harder, shot with more confidence, played with a mission, all felt like they were contributing significantly, and gave more than they had. It was palpable. Magic and Larry played it the right way, and it made everyone better.
That is why, even as a die hard Lakers fan, calling in to Stu at 570am after every game in the Showtime era, and not missing any game, I almost gave up on Kobe. It's all about playing the right way.
Which leads me to Lin. Lin may not be as talented as the greats but he plays the right way. Hers a quote from the Admiral which captures my thoughts on Lin.
David Robinson: "You know i'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the tv to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win. who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something that je ne se quois...it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level.
I'm 40 so don't assume anything. Die hard Laker fans don't give up on their franchise player specially when he is an all time great. Guess you were a Shaq guy eh? So Lin got you to come back to the Lakers after all these years that you had to sign up to LG?
My bad, didn't mean to offend you. I just assumed that because, IMO, if you've seen Magic play, you've seen the ability of a player to make others better. And as much as I liked Shaq, I wasn't a Shaq guy. Actually, more of a Kobe guy as his dedication and competitiveness stood for all that was great about the game for me. In fact, I've only had 3 jerseys in my house (ever), Magic's, Kobe's, and NVE's.
BTW, this is my third account, and I am a die hard Lakers fan. And, yes, I was upset at Kobe during the post-Shaq years, as I didn't believe he played the game the "right" way, and hogged it too much (e.g., I hated Jordan/ I love Pau). But, when he busted a ridiculous string of 50 point games playing mad at the world, scored 81, and eventually brought the trophy home with Pau, Kobe earned my respect as a true Lakers fan and I was a bigger fan of Kobe's than anyone else.
And yes, Lin "brought" me back. He plays the game the right way, i.e., fast, aggressive, hard-nosed, unselfish, team ball led by a dynamic pg, warts and all. At least, that's my opinion of good basketball. I can't stand playing with anyone who doesn't bump the cutter, box out, and shoot fade away 3s when everyone's open. He hasn't shown much, but he'll surprise you. I think he can be one of the most impactful pgs in the league in a few years. He hasn't done much yet, but I've seen his games and find his game indisputable (for me). One more thing, I know everyone is always upbeat to the point of silliness when it comes to judging the promise of young players and that it often fans out, but Lin's case is different. His sample size is not from summer league (which he killed at), not from college, not from the combines, but from real actual NBA games facing everyone in the league and I'm telling ya, watch the Lin/Dragic games, the Lin/Wall games, Lin/Lilliard games, Lin/Lowry games, Lin/Kyrie games, Lin/Rubio games, and you'll see that he not only held his own but won out most of those match ups and I've seen all of his games at least once, usually twice. Of course, in the end, it's just my opinion, and if he doesn't produce for the Lakers, he'll probably be gone in one year. I hope not, though. I wish someone can see what he's been doing and not just go on reputation as most analysts do (they probably don't have enough time to watch every game of every player, let alone an unproven youngster).
Last edited by Pgforlife on Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:54 am; edited 4 times in total
Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year?
Off the top of my head..
Stephen Curry
Damian Lilliard
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Goran Dragic
Kyrie Irving
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Michael Carter-Williams
Russell Westbrook
I'm probably missing an obvious one..
Out of those 10 players which one could Jeremy Lin potentially knock out of the top 10?
Top 20 easily.. top 10? He'd have to channel Linsanity pretty much for the entire season lol.
I think he can be better than Conley, dragic, MCW, Lillard and wall. Just sayin.
Really?
Are you willing to "go on record" saying that?
Lol sorry.. just a little gripe I have on here.
I hope he lives up to that! That'd be a STEAL for the Lakers!
I still can't get over how badly Houston's off-season turned out lol.
Gave up Asik.
Gave up Lin AND 1st rounder
Let Chandler Parsons walk.
Struck out on Carmelo Anthony AND Chris Bosh
Added Trevor Ariza, Nick Johnson (who I'm high on) brought back Troy Daniels.
That, most definitely, isn't anywhere CLOSE to a championship contending team.
The Rockets had a really bad offseason.
There is no way they are contenders next year. It serves Howard right, he went from being on one of the most storied franchises in history to a worse situation. Harden disappears in the playoffs and does not play defense, while Beverley is the worst starting point guard in the NBA.
Lin will definitely be our best non-Kobe penetrating guard in a long time. But for him to be successful, he has to have the ball in his hands. He's an average off-ball player. Whether Kobe will secede that position to him (something he didn't do with Nash) is the question.
Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year?
Off the top of my head..
Stephen Curry
Damian Lilliard
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Goran Dragic
Kyrie Irving
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Michael Carter-Williams
Russell Westbrook
I'm probably missing an obvious one..
Out of those 10 players which one could Jeremy Lin potentially knock out of the top 10?
Top 20 easily.. top 10? He'd have to channel Linsanity pretty much for the entire season lol.
I think he can be better than Conley, dragic, MCW, Lillard and wall. Just sayin.
Really?
Are you willing to "go on record" saying that?
Lol sorry.. just a little gripe I have on here.
I hope he lives up to that! That'd be a STEAL for the Lakers!
I still can't get over how badly Houston's off-season turned out lol.
Gave up Asik.
Gave up Lin AND 1st rounder
Let Chandler Parsons walk.
Struck out on Carmelo Anthony AND Chris Bosh
Added Trevor Ariza, Nick Johnson (who I'm high on) brought back Troy Daniels.
That, most definitely, isn't anywhere CLOSE to a championship contending team.
The Rockets had a really bad offseason.
There is no way they are contenders next year. It serves Howard right, he went from being on one of the most storied franchises in history to a worse situation. Harden disappears in the playoffs and does not play defense, while Beverley is the worst starting point guard in the NBA.
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA.
Lin will definitely be our best non-Kobe penetrating guard in a long time. But for him to be successful, he has to have the ball in his hands. He's an average off-ball player. Whether Kobe will secede that position to him (something he didn't do with Nash) is the question.
I don't think Kobe will cede that role, lol. But I do think it'll still work. Just let the pg play pg and let Kobe be Kobe.
Lin will definitely be our best non-Kobe penetrating guard in a long time. But for him to be successful, he has to have the ball in his hands. He's an average off-ball player. Whether Kobe will secede that position to him (something he didn't do with Nash) is the question.
I don't think Kobe will cede that role, lol. But I do think it'll still work. Just let the pg play pg and let Kobe be Kobe.
haha *cede, not secede. Though I do think Kobe will withdraw from the union if this team falls 10 games under .500..
Well MCW isn't a top 10 PG either. And no those guys are all better. I could maybe see him getting close to Dragic if he plays really well but I still think Dragic will be better.
Top PG IMO no particular order:
Elite:
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Drose (if healthy)
Rondo
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
All star:
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Ty Lawson
Bledsoe (if healthy)
Good/decent:
Kemba Walker
Jeff Teague
Rubio
Lin
Calderon
MCW
cgambino123 wrote:
Are you talking from a stats standpoint? Maybe.
But he's not a top 10 PG. He's barely top 20 IMO.
Now if he can put up big numbers while the team reaches the playoffs, then he'll be in the convo for top ten.
I like Lin and he's one of my 3 favorite players in the league after Kobe and Drose, but I'm a realist. He's not a top 10 PG. Especially with how stacked the position is around the league
You're only a top 10 PG if you can put up top 10 stats on a good team. Or at least a decent team. If Lin puts up 18/7 this year but we're horrible, no he's not a top 10 PG.
Brandon Knight averaged 18 a game on the Bucks. I'd barely put him in my top 25 PGs
So which are your top 10? Are Dragic, Bledsoe, Rondo, Lawson, Irving, Rubio and MCW included since their teams didn't make the playoffs?
I think at this point Lin has potential. I really don't know where to rank him because he hasn't consistently blown me away for a whole season. I feel if he's given the same freedom Wall or Irving has on their respective teams, he can put up comparable numbers and definitely lead a team to the playoffs.
But we're dealing with the real world here, so Lin has to pretty much show the world what he's capable of this year. It's a contract year for him, so it's sink or swim. Can he make use of his potential and rise above the misuse in Houston? We'll see.
As for the Lakers, it's a 1 year rental, and a no risk situation which garnered them draft picks. Pretty much a win-win situation.
The numbers point to him being a humble hardworking kid who's improving every year. His true shooting percentage is top 10 among PGs (57.2%) above Wall, Irving, Westbrook, Parker....which is why I see the potential.
Unfortunately, I feel Lin played below his potential this season due to the multitude of factors in Houston. Whether he claims his spot in the pantheon of good point guards is still yet to be determined. His journey in my opinion, is still it's early stages and a new Chapter is about to begin.
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA.
Lin will definitely be our best non-Kobe penetrating guard in a long time. But for him to be successful, he has to have the ball in his hands. He's an average off-ball player. Whether Kobe will secede that position to him (something he didn't do with Nash) is the question.
I don't think Kobe will cede that role, lol. But I do think it'll still work. Just let the pg play pg and let Kobe be Kobe.
I don't think it has to be strictly one way or the other, I think Kobe leads the team and Lin chips in wherever possible with an emphasis on team-ball.
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA.
I think he is a bulldog of a defender but here you go:
Per Game Averages - Last Season
10.2 PTS 2.7 AST 1.2 TOV 3.5 RPG 12.43 PER
He just fits what the Rockets need since Harden is the Mariana Trench when it comes to Defense half the time.
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