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ginia1110
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Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 241
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| kinein wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA. |
I think he is a bulldog of a defender but here you go:
Per Game Averages - Last Season
10.2 PTS 2.7 AST 1.2 TOV 3.5 RPG 12.43 PER
He just fits what the Rockets need since Harden is the Mariana Trench when it comes to Defense half the time. |
Best defensive PG in the nba? May I ask guys, what is that, really?
Are PG's suppose to be defensive minded today?
That new term has really discombobulated my mind ever since i've heard of it.
I thought PG's were suppose to be offense oriented kind of players, so when I saw Bev being touted as defensive PG I thought it was a bit weird~ sorry, Ive been watching basketball for a long time but don't really bother much with the technical side of things as long as they're shooting hoops.
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== WILL TRY TO IGNORE IDIOTIC POST ABOVE==
R.Hibbert, wearing purple & gold next year = my pipe-dream... Lolz  |
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basketofballs
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| ginia1110 wrote: | | kinein wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA. |
I think he is a bulldog of a defender but here you go:
Per Game Averages - Last Season
10.2 PTS 2.7 AST 1.2 TOV 3.5 RPG 12.43 PER
He just fits what the Rockets need since Harden is the Mariana Trench when it comes to Defense half the time. |
Best defensive PG in the nba? May I ask guys, what is that, really?
Are PG's suppose to be defensive minded today?
That new term has really discombobulated my mind ever since i've heard of it.
I thought PG's were suppose to be offense oriented kind of players, so when I saw Bev being touted as defensive PG I thought it was a bit weird~ sorry, Ive been watching basketball for a long time but don't really bother much with the technical side of things as long as they're shooting hoops. |
PGs can be known for their defense. One notable example is Gary Payton, but he was also an exceptional scorer. I mean you can say the same thing about how SGs are offensive oriented, since you know "shooting" is in the name, but Tony Allen is touted as a great defensive 2-guard. Defense is always valued but never really highlighted, and it just so happens that P-Bev really helps out Houston's back court since Harden decides to go on vacation when it comes to that aspect. |
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meows a lot
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Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| -Showtime- wrote: |
There is no way they are contenders next year. It serves Howard right, he went from being on one of the most storied franchises in history to a worse situation. Harden disappears in the playoffs and does not play defense, while Beverley is the worst starting point guard in the NBA. |
Dwight went to play for Rockets because
1) He didn't like his teammates. Simply Kobe got on his case and team chemistry was never formed. Kobe is a serious player a contender. It is a well known fact that he doesn't eff around when it comes to games. Dwight is complete opposite so there is lack of synergy there already
2) there was too much pressure for Dwight, he couldn't handle the criticism.
It's not about how storied a franchise is but how the team you play with fits. If you aren't having a good time, then you aren't having a good time.
Say someone works for Goldman Sachs but the teammates and pressure there was too much but they instead went to work for another company which had a different any more fun environment. The company is less reputable but is still a good company, but they have a blast.
Having said this, I can see why Laker fans can hate on dwight cuz he lacked a winning mentality and the way he left was unprofessional, but cmon, he soley left because Kobe didn't work well with him (also Dwight's game was a bit 1 dimensional)
_________________
“We do have a lot in common.
The same air, the same Earth, the same sky.
Maybe if we started looking at
what's the same instead of
always looking at what's different,
...well, who knows?”
- Meowth |
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meows a lot
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Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| basketofballs wrote: |
PGs can be known for their defense. One notable example is Gary Payton, but he was also an exceptional scorer. I mean you can say the same thing about how SGs are offensive oriented, since you know "shooting" is in the name, but Tony Allen is touted as a great defensive 2-guard. Defense is always valued but never really highlighted, and it just so happens that P-Bev really helps out Houston's back court since Harden decides to go on vacation when it comes to that aspect. |
They can be, but it is less known. People don't highlight defense as much as buckets. Individual defense is only good if the team has crappy team defense to cover for players, but players can overcome their average defense with great team defense - of course this takes good coaching and rotations.
_________________
“We do have a lot in common.
The same air, the same Earth, the same sky.
Maybe if we started looking at
what's the same instead of
always looking at what's different,
...well, who knows?”
- Meowth |
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basketofballs
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| meows a lot wrote: | | -Showtime- wrote: |
There is no way they are contenders next year. It serves Howard right, he went from being on one of the most storied franchises in history to a worse situation. Harden disappears in the playoffs and does not play defense, while Beverley is the worst starting point guard in the NBA. |
Dwight went to play for Rockets because
1) He didn't like his teammates. Simply Kobe got on his case and team chemistry was never formed. Kobe is a serious player a contender. It is a well known fact that he doesn't eff around when it comes to games. Dwight is complete opposite so there is lack of synergy there already
2) there was too much pressure for Dwight, he couldn't handle the criticism.
It's not about how storied a franchise is but how the team you play with fits. If you aren't having a good time, then you aren't having a good time.
Say someone works for Goldman Sachs but the teammates and pressure there was too much but they instead went to work for another company which had a different any more fun environment. The company is less reputable but is still a good company, but they have a blast.
Having said this, I can see why Laker fans can hate on dwight cuz he lacked a winning mentality and the way he left was unprofessional, but cmon, he soley left because Kobe didn't work well with him (also Dwight's game was a bit 1 dimensional) |
As a Houstonian, I was initially happy that we stole D12 from you guys. Unfortunately, I don't think he's that quite "I want to win at all costs" yet. Because if he did, he'd dropped the notion of him being a capable pound the post player and run some damn PnR. Even though the numbers say that a Harden and D12 PnR is possibly the most effective way to score, he would rather be inefficient in the post. That irks me... a whole lot. This is coming from a person who saw Dwight as the only Star that showed up in that Portland series. |
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basketofballs
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| meows a lot wrote: | | basketofballs wrote: |
PGs can be known for their defense. One notable example is Gary Payton, but he was also an exceptional scorer. I mean you can say the same thing about how SGs are offensive oriented, since you know "shooting" is in the name, but Tony Allen is touted as a great defensive 2-guard. Defense is always valued but never really highlighted, and it just so happens that P-Bev really helps out Houston's back court since Harden decides to go on vacation when it comes to that aspect. |
They can be, but it is less known. People don't highlight defense as much as buckets. Individual defense is only good if the team has crappy team defense to cover for players, but players can overcome their average defense with great team defense - of course this takes good coaching and rotations. |
Chicago Bulls *cough *cough All joking aside, there's plenty of PGs that are given credit on the defensive end although they're more offensively polished than Beverley. Rondo and Rubio are ones I can name right off the bat that people instantly think of their length and defense. But then again, they're also known for their passes. Beverley is rather infamous for injuring players... Though that's not fair to his ability as a tenacious, hustle defensive player though. |
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Pgforlife
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Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| meows a lot wrote: | | basketofballs wrote: |
PGs can be known for their defense. One notable example is Gary Payton, but he was also an exceptional scorer. I mean you can say the same thing about how SGs are offensive oriented, since you know "shooting" is in the name, but Tony Allen is touted as a great defensive 2-guard. Defense is always valued but never really highlighted, and it just so happens that P-Bev really helps out Houston's back court since Harden decides to go on vacation when it comes to that aspect. |
They can be, but it is less known. People don't highlight defense as much as buckets. Individual defense is only good if the team has crappy team defense to cover for players, but players can overcome their average defense with great team defense - of course this takes good coaching and rotations. |
Good defense from the pg spot is more important than that. Is it as important as interior defense? No. But, saying good defense isn't that important is just wrong. As for Bev, I love Bev. He's a player that plays with all his heart and is athletic enough to do his job well. I just never bought into the narrative that Lin was a poor defender. Baloney. Lin is also a scrappy defender with great positioning, quick hands, and good athleticism. PG defense was never ever the problem in Houston, unlike here. IMO, those who say Lin's defense sucks have never watched Lin's defense with any amount of scrutiny for a sufficient sample size or is biased. The numbers bear this out and so does the eye test.
Last edited by Pgforlife on Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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-Showtime-
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| basketofballs wrote: | | ginia1110 wrote: | | kinein wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA. |
I think he is a bulldog of a defender but here you go:
Per Game Averages - Last Season
10.2 PTS 2.7 AST 1.2 TOV 3.5 RPG 12.43 PER
He just fits what the Rockets need since Harden is the Mariana Trench when it comes to Defense half the time. |
Best defensive PG in the nba? May I ask guys, what is that, really?
Are PG's suppose to be defensive minded today?
That new term has really discombobulated my mind ever since i've heard of it.
I thought PG's were suppose to be offense oriented kind of players, so when I saw Bev being touted as defensive PG I thought it was a bit weird~ sorry, Ive been watching basketball for a long time but don't really bother much with the technical side of things as long as they're shooting hoops. |
PGs can be known for their defense. One notable example is Gary Payton, but he was also an exceptional scorer. I mean you can say the same thing about how SGs are offensive oriented, since you know "shooting" is in the name, but Tony Allen is touted as a great defensive 2-guard. Defense is always valued but never really highlighted, and it just so happens that P-Bev really helps out Houston's back court since Harden decides to go on vacation when it comes to that aspect. |
You're comparing Gary Payton and Patrick Beverley? In his prime Payton was averaging 8-9 assists per games and 20+ points per games in addition to that defense.
Beverley averages 2.7 assists per game.
How many other starting PG do that.
Beverley is also an overrated defender, he let Kirk Hinrich score a season high 19 points against him. It doesn't stop there, he gave up lots of points in his matchups throughout the year resulting in some players scoring career and season highs while he defended them.
Beverley's defensive rating is 107 which isn't fantastic either.
Bev's defense in not horrendous but isn't as good as they make it out to be either. |
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-Showtime-
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| basketofballs wrote: | | As a Houstonian, I was initially happy that we stole D12 from you guys. Unfortunately, I don't think he's that quite "I want to win at all costs" yet. Because if he did, he'd dropped the notion of him being a capable pound the post player and run some damn PnR. Even though the numbers say that a Harden and D12 PnR is possibly the most effective way to score, he would rather be inefficient in the post. That irks me... a whole lot. This is coming from a person who saw Dwight as the only Star that showed up in that Portland series. |
You're not a Laker fan? Why did you sign up for this forum just out of curiosity.
As for D12 you can have him, as I don't think he has that drive needed to win. Maybe as a complimentary star but his situation in Houston isn't going to win him anything with Harden's lack of defense.
I agree with you Howard was the only star that showed up that series. Harden was terrible and was one of the main reasons why they were eliminated by Portland. |
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jlinfan
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Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Pgforlife wrote: |
David Robinson: "You know i'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the tv to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win. who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something that je ne se quois...it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level. |
Nice. Never read that before. I think a lot of people would like Lin to beak out again. And I agree with the sentiment that Lin makes the all star game as starter as long as he's wearing purple and gold. This is based on LAL fan base who voted in injured Kobe last year. I think Lin is on record saying he wants to earn an all-star spot so it'll be interesting if he abdicates. |
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JK_Reloaded
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Joined: 17 Jul 2014
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:38 am Post subject: Bets for Bragging Rights - JLin's 2014-2015 Stats |
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So far we've got:
17/9 - JK_ReLoaded
15/5.5 - cgambino123
17/7 - metalogic7
17/6 - basketofballs
Anyone else care to join in for bragging rights throughout the season? |
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jlinfan
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Posts: 720
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| ch3cky0selff00 wrote: |
Jeremy Lin is going to be good for the Lakers. If you can lock him up after next season for less than 7 million a year.. I'd call that a win. |
At this point yeah would be AWESOME. Not a cornerstone piece but even as backup or 6th mam, Lin has a lot to offer on a contender. |
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tomato123
Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Depends on his role given by Kobe. Jeremy is a ball dominated point guard. Probably top 20 if his role is real PG. If the ball isn't always on Jeremy hands, he will struggle but I am sure he will still has better stats than playing for rockets. I would say if Kobe let Jeremy handles the ball, Kobe will also have a huge season. Jeremy is known good passer to get teammates wide open shots and easy buckets.
Notice that 9 games without James Harden last season, Jeremy Lin has held averages of:
21.2PTS, 6.3AST, 3RPG, 4.2 T/O, 1.5 AST/TO
shot 84.8% from the line with 7.3 attempts per game,
shot 48.8% from 3PT land, (42.8% sans Sixers game),
shot 47.5% from the field with 13.3 Attempts.
The 8 games without Carmelo Anthony in NYK, Lin has held averages of:
25 PTS, 9.5 AST, 3.6RPG, 6.5 T/O, 1.46 AST/TO
shot 70.7% from the line with 8.1 attempts per game,
shot 38.5% from 3PT land
shot 50.7% from the field with 17.8 Attempts.
| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year? |
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DL24
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Posts: 195
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: |
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His defense is wildy overrated. He gets the highlight plays and gambles alot so you'll see some steals and blocks where as he would be better off playing positional defense and staying with his man. He's been burned repeatedly for gambling for steals or fouling his man on a 3pt attempt. His most notable skill was getting out of harden's way (reason why he gets to start) |
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DL24
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 195
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| ginia1110 wrote: | | kinein wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: |
By what metric is Beverley the worst starting pg? He's a decent shooter from 3, sports a low turnover rate, and most importantly, he's the best defensive point guard in the NBA. |
I think he is a bulldog of a defender but here you go:
Per Game Averages - Last Season
10.2 PTS 2.7 AST 1.2 TOV 3.5 RPG 12.43 PER
He just fits what the Rockets need since Harden is the Mariana Trench when it comes to Defense half the time. |
Best defensive PG in the nba? May I ask guys, what is that, really?
Are PG's suppose to be defensive minded today?
That new term has really discombobulated my mind ever since i've heard of it.
I thought PG's were suppose to be offense oriented kind of players, so when I saw Bev being touted as defensive PG I thought it was a bit weird~ sorry, Ive been watching basketball for a long time but don't really bother much with the technical side of things as long as they're shooting hoops. |
haha best defensive pg in NFL terms would mean quarterback who hands the ball off best to the running back/has fewest interceptions...Josh Freeman had the fewest interceptions in the league just a few years =) |
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Lin
Rookie
Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | David Robinson: "You know i'm on the outside looking in, but he was the most valuable guy there on the franchise! I don't even know why they'd ever want to let him go. I mean, he was the reason why I would even want to turn on the tv to even watch the Knicks, so now I wanna turn on to watch the Rockets cos you love guys who can win. who have just some kind of magic about them. There's so few guys that have that leadership characteristic... that something that je ne se quois...it's just a special thing that makes it fun to watch so hopefully he brings that to the Rockets and helps take them to another level. |
Jeremy and David are both Christian so that magic David is describing he may attribute it to for working his "thang" |
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AshesToAshes
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: |
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a decade of guards:
nash - injured
farmar - injured, gone
marshall
goudelock
morris
blake
duhon
fisher
sessions
critt
smush
... ya i welcome Lin with open arms. At worst it's another year without a superstar pg; has never really affected our contention for rings (or any other team).
He's expiring and at a fraction of his actual contract.. he just woke up from his own dwightmare.. if he finds a way to be worth even less than he is right now, at least he's gone. But the upside is potentially huge.
Great PG to put beside kobe. Humble, obviously willing to buy into a system or play to others' strengths. Finally, he's going to play WITH a superstar; not just try to support one.
If he picks up on some of that kobe-fisher 2man game... we will be making some noise and frustrate other teams.
"kobe is busted" and "it's just Lin" are thoughts that will haunt other teams.
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cgambino123
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:47 am Post subject: |
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| -Showtime- wrote: | | cgambino123 wrote: | Well MCW isn't a top 10 PG either. And no those guys are all better. I could maybe see him getting close to Dragic if he plays really well but I still think Dragic will be better.
Top PG IMO no particular order:
Elite:
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Drose (if healthy)
Rondo
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
All star:
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Ty Lawson
Bledsoe (if healthy)
Good/decent:
Kemba Walker
Jeff Teague
Rubio
Lin
Calderon
MCW |
| cgambino123 wrote: | Are you talking from a stats standpoint? Maybe.
But he's not a top 10 PG. He's barely top 20 IMO.
Now if he can put up big numbers while the team reaches the playoffs, then he'll be in the convo for top ten.
I like Lin and he's one of my 3 favorite players in the league after Kobe and Drose, but I'm a realist. He's not a top 10 PG. Especially with how stacked the position is around the league
You're only a top 10 PG if you can put up top 10 stats on a good team. Or at least a decent team. If Lin puts up 18/7 this year but we're horrible, no he's not a top 10 PG.
Brandon Knight averaged 18 a game on the Bucks. I'd barely put him in my top 25 PGs |
So which are your top 10? Are Dragic, Bledsoe, Rondo, Lawson, Irving, Rubio and MCW included since their teams didn't make the playoffs?
I think at this point Lin has potential. I really don't know where to rank him because he hasn't consistently blown me away for a whole season. I feel if he's given the same freedom Wall or Irving has on their respective teams, he can put up comparable numbers and definitely lead a team to the playoffs.
But we're dealing with the real world here, so Lin has to pretty much show the world what he's capable of this year. It's a contract year for him, so it's sink or swim. Can he make use of his potential and rise above the misuse in Houston? We'll see.
As for the Lakers, it's a 1 year rental, and a no risk situation which garnered them draft picks. Pretty much a win-win situation.
The numbers point to him being a humble hardworking kid who's improving every year. His true shooting percentage is top 10 among PGs (57.2%) above Wall, Irving, Westbrook, Parker....which is why I see the potential.
Unfortunately, I feel Lin played below his potential this season due to the multitude of factors in Houston. Whether he claims his spot in the pantheon of good point guards is still yet to be determined. His journey in my opinion, is still it's early stages and a new Chapter is about to begin. |
I don't think I'd put any of those guys on my top 10 except maybe Dragic. That Phoenix roster was horrible and he nearly carried them to the playoffs in the stacked West with great shooting efficency. I give credit to Hornacek for this, too. I'd put Bledsoe in that category but he's too injury prone and doesn't really play like a PG. Rondo just ahs a terrible team, period.
But I wouldn't put any of the other guys there. Not even Irving. I'll try to make a PG ranking:
1. CP3
2. Tony Parker
3. Drose (If healthy)
4. Steph Curry
5. Westbrook
6. John Wall
7. Rondo
8. Lillard
9. Dragic
10. Mike Conley
That's probably my top 10. After that:
11. Lowry
12. Bledsoe
13. Lawson
14. Irving
15. Rubio
16. Kemba
17. Teague
18. Lin
19. MCW
20. Calderon
Many people will disagree but that's just my opinion |
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Voices
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I have not posted on this thread so my opinion of the trade is positive because of the draft pick. As far a Lin as a player he is a roller coaster ride. Lin can be explosive and he can also make unnecessary mistakes. I can see a lineup of Young and Lin being explosive with mistakes. Lin might prove to be a good teammate and a good player. It should be interesting.
_________________
.....
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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ch3cky0selff00
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 4392
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| EchoZulu wrote: | | ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | What does going on record here do exactly? I've never understood that phrase in terms of message boards. Is it like.. bragging rights in case you were right? Like.. isn't everything on the internet on a message board 'on the record' lol.
Sorry. /end my jeff van gundy rant.
Jeremy Lin is going to be good for the Lakers. If you can lock him up after next season for less than 7 million a year.. I'd call that a win. |
Lol....talk about B&Ming about the small things in life.
I was more or less using the term as a figure of speech. And in this case, recognizing the fact that I was repeating myself because I was doing just that, repeating myself. It would be pretty petty of me to revel and take pride in being right about something especially considering that many here have the same sentiments as myself.
I do hope you feel better, tho, in getting that off your chest. |
Oh, I do. I feel much better.
- I go on record here
- the word "retread" when used to talk about a coach
- I'll gladly eat crow
for some reason just really grinds my gears LOL
for what its worth tho, my post was mostly tongue in cheek. |
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Voices
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| cgambino123 wrote: | | -Showtime- wrote: | | cgambino123 wrote: | Well MCW isn't a top 10 PG either. And no those guys are all better. I could maybe see him getting close to Dragic if he plays really well but I still think Dragic will be better.
Top PG IMO no particular order:
Elite:
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Drose (if healthy)
Rondo
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
All star:
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Ty Lawson
Bledsoe (if healthy)
Good/decent:
Kemba Walker
Jeff Teague
Rubio
Lin
Calderon
MCW |
| cgambino123 wrote: | Are you talking from a stats standpoint? Maybe.
But he's not a top 10 PG. He's barely top 20 IMO.
Now if he can put up big numbers while the team reaches the playoffs, then he'll be in the convo for top ten.
I like Lin and he's one of my 3 favorite players in the league after Kobe and Drose, but I'm a realist. He's not a top 10 PG. Especially with how stacked the position is around the league
You're only a top 10 PG if you can put up top 10 stats on a good team. Or at least a decent team. If Lin puts up 18/7 this year but we're horrible, no he's not a top 10 PG.
Brandon Knight averaged 18 a game on the Bucks. I'd barely put him in my top 25 PGs |
So which are your top 10? Are Dragic, Bledsoe, Rondo, Lawson, Irving, Rubio and MCW included since their teams didn't make the playoffs?
I think at this point Lin has potential. I really don't know where to rank him because he hasn't consistently blown me away for a whole season. I feel if he's given the same freedom Wall or Irving has on their respective teams, he can put up comparable numbers and definitely lead a team to the playoffs.
But we're dealing with the real world here, so Lin has to pretty much show the world what he's capable of this year. It's a contract year for him, so it's sink or swim. Can he make use of his potential and rise above the misuse in Houston? We'll see.
As for the Lakers, it's a 1 year rental, and a no risk situation which garnered them draft picks. Pretty much a win-win situation.
The numbers point to him being a humble hardworking kid who's improving every year. His true shooting percentage is top 10 among PGs (57.2%) above Wall, Irving, Westbrook, Parker....which is why I see the potential.
Unfortunately, I feel Lin played below his potential this season due to the multitude of factors in Houston. Whether he claims his spot in the pantheon of good point guards is still yet to be determined. His journey in my opinion, is still it's early stages and a new Chapter is about to begin. |
I don't think I'd put any of those guys on my top 10 except maybe Dragic. That Phoenix roster was horrible and he nearly carried them to the playoffs in the stacked West with great shooting efficency. I give credit to Hornacek for this, too. I'd put Bledsoe in that category but he's too injury prone and doesn't really play like a PG. Rondo just ahs a terrible team, period.
But I wouldn't put any of the other guys there. Not even Irving. I'll try to make a PG ranking:
1. CP3
2. Tony Parker
3. Drose (If healthy)
4. Steph Curry
5. Westbrook
6. John Wall
7. Rondo
8. Lillard
9. Dragic
10. Mike Conley
That's probably my top 10. After that:
11. Lowry
12. Bledsoe
13. Lawson
14. Irving
15. Rubio
16. Kemba
17. Teague
18. Lin
19. MCW
20. Calderon
Many people will disagree but that's just my opinion |
It's not about disagreeing, I just look at the list and think what a great group of PG's, some big time talent. Do I agree in the order, not completely but who cares that is some big time talent.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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cgambino123
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | cgambino123 wrote: | | -Showtime- wrote: | | cgambino123 wrote: | Well MCW isn't a top 10 PG either. And no those guys are all better. I could maybe see him getting close to Dragic if he plays really well but I still think Dragic will be better.
Top PG IMO no particular order:
Elite:
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Drose (if healthy)
Rondo
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
All star:
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Ty Lawson
Bledsoe (if healthy)
Good/decent:
Kemba Walker
Jeff Teague
Rubio
Lin
Calderon
MCW |
| cgambino123 wrote: | Are you talking from a stats standpoint? Maybe.
But he's not a top 10 PG. He's barely top 20 IMO.
Now if he can put up big numbers while the team reaches the playoffs, then he'll be in the convo for top ten.
I like Lin and he's one of my 3 favorite players in the league after Kobe and Drose, but I'm a realist. He's not a top 10 PG. Especially with how stacked the position is around the league
You're only a top 10 PG if you can put up top 10 stats on a good team. Or at least a decent team. If Lin puts up 18/7 this year but we're horrible, no he's not a top 10 PG.
Brandon Knight averaged 18 a game on the Bucks. I'd barely put him in my top 25 PGs |
So which are your top 10? Are Dragic, Bledsoe, Rondo, Lawson, Irving, Rubio and MCW included since their teams didn't make the playoffs?
I think at this point Lin has potential. I really don't know where to rank him because he hasn't consistently blown me away for a whole season. I feel if he's given the same freedom Wall or Irving has on their respective teams, he can put up comparable numbers and definitely lead a team to the playoffs.
But we're dealing with the real world here, so Lin has to pretty much show the world what he's capable of this year. It's a contract year for him, so it's sink or swim. Can he make use of his potential and rise above the misuse in Houston? We'll see.
As for the Lakers, it's a 1 year rental, and a no risk situation which garnered them draft picks. Pretty much a win-win situation.
The numbers point to him being a humble hardworking kid who's improving every year. His true shooting percentage is top 10 among PGs (57.2%) above Wall, Irving, Westbrook, Parker....which is why I see the potential.
Unfortunately, I feel Lin played below his potential this season due to the multitude of factors in Houston. Whether he claims his spot in the pantheon of good point guards is still yet to be determined. His journey in my opinion, is still it's early stages and a new Chapter is about to begin. |
I don't think I'd put any of those guys on my top 10 except maybe Dragic. That Phoenix roster was horrible and he nearly carried them to the playoffs in the stacked West with great shooting efficency. I give credit to Hornacek for this, too. I'd put Bledsoe in that category but he's too injury prone and doesn't really play like a PG. Rondo just ahs a terrible team, period.
But I wouldn't put any of the other guys there. Not even Irving. I'll try to make a PG ranking:
1. CP3
2. Tony Parker
3. Drose (If healthy)
4. Steph Curry
5. Westbrook
6. John Wall
7. Rondo
8. Lillard
9. Dragic
10. Mike Conley
That's probably my top 10. After that:
11. Lowry
12. Bledsoe
13. Lawson
14. Irving
15. Rubio
16. Kemba
17. Teague
18. Lin
19. MCW
20. Calderon
Many people will disagree but that's just my opinion |
It's not about disagreeing, I just look at the list and think what a great group of PG's, some big time talent. Do I agree in the order, not completely but who cares that is some big time talent. |
Yeah the PG position is extremely stacked. Even tho Lin may be around a top 20 PG, he might actually be in the top 70-75 players in the entire NBA. That's how stacked the PG position is |
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Des0rbit
Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year? |
Off the top of my head..
Stephen Curry
Damian Lilliard
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Goran Dragic
Kyrie Irving
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Michael Carter-Williams
Russell Westbrook
edit: Derrick Rose - thats the obvious one lol.
I'm probably missing an obvious one..
Out of those 10 players which one could Jeremy Lin potentially knock out of the top 10?
Top 20 easily.. top 10? He'd have to channel Linsanity pretty much for the entire season lol. |
Stats wise, he is already more efficient than MCW. But MCW was rookie of the year, so there might be a lot of potential the league is seeing in him.
I think Lin has the potential to knock MCW off the list. Lin ALWAYS plays well against John Wall, he might have a shot against him as well. Other than that, every other PGs you listed are pretty tough for Lin to compete for the top 10 spot. Lin could easily be in the top 20s though, no doubt. |
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Des0rbit
Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| DL24 wrote: | | cgambino123 wrote: | | metalogic7 wrote: | | ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | Lin fans - do you think he can finish as a top 10 pg next year? |
Off the top of my head..
Stephen Curry
Damian Lilliard
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Goran Dragic
Kyrie Irving
Chris Paul
Mike Conley
Michael Carter-Williams
Russell Westbrook
I'm probably missing an obvious one..
Out of those 10 players which one could Jeremy Lin potentially knock out of the top 10?
Top 20 easily.. top 10? He'd have to channel Linsanity pretty much for the entire season lol. |
I think he can be better than Conley, dragic, MCW, Lillard and wall. Just sayin. |
Well MCW isn't a top 10 PG either. And no those guys are all better. I could maybe see him getting close to Dragic if he plays really well but I still think Dragic will be better.
Top PG IMO no particular order:
Elite:
Chris Paul
Tony Parker
Drose (if healthy)
Rondo
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
All star:
Damian Lillard
Kyle Lowry
Mike Conley
Goran Dragic
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Ty Lawson
Bledsoe (if healthy)
Good/decent:
Kemba Walker
Jeff Teague
Rubio
Lin
Calderon
MCW |
agree with most. just a sidebar, has Mike Conley made an allstar team? The guy is really really good, watched him against the clips last yr and this yr against the thunder, feel like he's really underrated.... |
Mike Conley is the most underrated PG in the league, more so than Lin |
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-Showtime-
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 324
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| cgambino123 wrote: |
I don't think I'd put any of those guys on my top 10 except maybe Dragic. That Phoenix roster was horrible and he nearly carried them to the playoffs in the stacked West with great shooting efficency. I give credit to Hornacek for this, too. I'd put Bledsoe in that category but he's too injury prone and doesn't really play like a PG. Rondo just ahs a terrible team, period.
But I wouldn't put any of the other guys there. Not even Irving. I'll try to make a PG ranking:
1. CP3
2. Tony Parker
3. Drose (If healthy)
4. Steph Curry
5. Westbrook
6. John Wall
7. Rondo
8. Lillard
9. Dragic
10. Mike Conley
That's probably my top 10. After that:
11. Lowry
12. Bledsoe
13. Lawson
14. Irving
15. Rubio
16. Kemba
17. Teague
18. Lin
19. MCW
20. Calderon
Many people will disagree but that's just my opinion |
Potential wise, I see Lin possibly being better than Lawson, Lowry, Bledsoe, Rubio, Teague, Kemba, Calderon, Drose (due to injury), Conley if given the chance.
Being better than Lillard and Dragic are a possibility, but only if he plays beyond expectations.
As for the rest, we'll see. There are still a lot of moving parts and possibilities that Lin won't perform well, but his potential upside is encouraging. The upcoming season should be entertaining.
Dragic (and Rondo) are in your top 10 list but Phoenix make the playoffs. So if Lin performs with comparable numbers to Dragic but misses the playoffs, will he be ranked accordingly?
I see Lin being ranked 8-12 according to your list if he does well this season. |
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