Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:05 am Post subject:
Iandrewd wrote:
MJST wrote:
Quote:
Mudiay: Doesn't possess breath-taking speed, handle couldn't get past Sun Yue in CBA, was easily shut down when he forced him left.
He’s a well developed athlete for someone his age; lean but agile and bouncy off the ground. That athleticism translates best in transition. Mudiay doesn’t have long strides or sprints up the court with breath-taking speed, but he is quick and runs with fluidity.
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His quickness is also an asset when he attacks with his right hand in the half court. Mudiay creates great separation driving with his strong hand, both in isolation and out of the pick-and-roll — he has a tight handle and is able to turn on the jets in a pinch.
In saying that, he struggles greatly when forced left. Mudiay couldn’t get past or create any sort of separation with his off hand against NBA-caliber athletes, like Sun Yue and Stephon Marbury. He’s able to maintain his balance through contact (and there was a lot of contact) but doesn’t finish as well as he does with his right hand.
When kept in front, Mudiay has shown to be an iffy shooter off the dribble. He sets an uneven base pulling up, doesn’t elevate with great balance, often fails to release the ball at his highest point and will at times kick with both legs. He doesn’t fully extend himself and releases the ball from the front of his forehead.
He can make shots but not enough for defenses to feel uncomfortable sagging off him. Beijing did it quite aggressively in the semifinal series and Mudiay forced some shots early in the clock that were ill advised, especially considering how capable a shot creator he is late on possessions.
Mudiay is currently projected as a top five pick, and players selected in this range are often expected to impact winning at the highest level. I’m confident Mudiay will be a quality shot creator in the NBA; he should be able to get into the lane against a set defense and is a good passer at a young age. But whether he’ll be a transcending star will likely depend on if he develops as a scorer, and that’s where the risk lies.
The biggest concern is his ability to space the floor. Mudiay isn’t any sort of threat from outside the paint at this stage of his career. If he doesn’t develop, he’ll take away his team’s flexibility to play an offense where he doesn’t monopolize possession or otherwise limit their ceiling, similar to what we are seeing with Rajon Rondo in Dallas and Michael Carter-Williams in Milwaukee.
Mudiay got to the rim and finished at a respectable rate in the CBA, but defenders contest shots more actively in the NBA. When he faced two NBA-caliber athletes in his last two games in China, Mudiay struggled to create a quality shot when forced left. Defenders in America aren’t allowed to be as physical as Marbury was with him in China but they will look to take him out of his comfort zone just the same.
So, because an 18 year old JUST out of high school, isn't good enough to consistently beat a 29 year old professional player, the 18 year old won't be any good?
The analysis specifically mentioned that players in China were allowed to be more physical with him than they will be in the NBA. So, this 18 year old was playing in a more physical league against older, more mature players and he struggled at times. I' not saying he's a sure thing but let's remember his age here.
1. A lot of his potential is based around his athleticism.
2. Sun Yue isn't an elite athlete. He's average at best.
3. He's big at 6'5" 200+ at the PG slot, nearly on par with SGs and SFs from China. He can't compete against some physical play? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
It should be noted that the scouting report is merely the opinion of a writer that nobody has heard of, posted on a website that nobody has heard of. People who like Mudiay will dismiss it, and people who hate him won't.
It's too bad he chose to play in China so us armchair GMs could make evaluations based on a full season of US coverage instead of a handful of edited video clips from a dozen games and random reports from some shmoes on the web. His decision (whether forced or not) certainly hasn't helped his draft stock any.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
No doubt. I hope more players do it. His stock didn't fall because he went to China, his stock fell because we got to see him for what he is. The Harrison twins went to the premier program in the country, and their stock fell precipitously. Why? Because they weren't as good as advertised.
Joined: 03 Aug 2003 Posts: 2189 Location: In my skin
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:22 pm Post subject:
In terms of mobility and body control from big men:
If prime KG was a 10, Anthony Davis is a 9.5, Deandre Jordan is a 9, Ibaka is an 8 and Noah is a 7.5....
Then....
Okafor is a ?
Towns is a ?
Porzingis is a ?
(Feel free to correct my scale on the current players. I'm just really trying to determine the perception on how well this year's bigs move and associate with players I seen plenty of.)
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject:
cinimod wrote:
In terms of mobility and body control from big men:
If prime KG was a 10, Anthony Davis is a 9.5, Deandre Jordan is a 9, Ibaka is an 8 and Noah is a 7.5....
Then....
Okafor is a ?
Towns is a ?
Porzingis is a ?
(Feel free to correct my scale on the current players. I'm just really trying to determine the perception on how well this year's bigs move and associate with players I seen plenty of.)
Okafor 6 (Average athlete, but jumps quickly, doesn't need to gather up)
Towns 7 (Better motor than Okafor, not a fast runner, not a quick player, not explosive)
Porzingis 7.5 (Quick/fast by height, like a SF) _________________ Resident Car Nut.
In terms of mobility and body control from big men:
If prime KG was a 10, Anthony Davis is a 9.5, Deandre Jordan is a 9, Ibaka is an 8 and Noah is a 7.5....
Then....
Okafor is a ?
Towns is a ?
Porzingis is a ?
(Feel free to correct my scale on the current players. I'm just really trying to determine the perception on how well this year's bigs move and associate with players I seen plenty of.)
Well A.D has to be a 10 imo. But whatever. I like this scale
Porzingis most of the time looks like a 9
he is putting on weight tho and im not sure if he still moves quite that well. There he looks like a legit 9 but I've seen him look like an 8.
He's a PF tho. Doubt we seriously consider him just because of Randle. BPA sounds cute but Randle is our PF and we have a lot of other holes to fill.
In terms of mobility and body control from big men:
If prime KG was a 10, Anthony Davis is a 9.5, Deandre Jordan is a 9, Ibaka is an 8 and Noah is a 7.5....
Then....
Okafor is a ?
Towns is a ?
Porzingis is a ?
(Feel free to correct my scale on the current players. I'm just really trying to determine the perception on how well this year's bigs move and associate with players I seen plenty of.)
Okafor 6 (Average athlete, but jumps quickly, doesn't need to gather up)
Towns 7 (Better motor than Okafor, not a fast runner, not a quick player, not explosive)
Porzingis 7.5 (Quick/fast by height, like a SF)
If Noah is a 7.5 on his list, someone SF-like has to score much higher..
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:11 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
cinimod wrote:
In terms of mobility and body control from big men:
If prime KG was a 10, Anthony Davis is a 9.5, Deandre Jordan is a 9, Ibaka is an 8 and Noah is a 7.5....
Then....
Okafor is a ?
Towns is a ?
Porzingis is a ?
(Feel free to correct my scale on the current players. I'm just really trying to determine the perception on how well this year's bigs move and associate with players I seen plenty of.)
Okafor 6 (Average athlete, but jumps quickly, doesn't need to gather up)
Towns 7 (Better motor than Okafor, not a fast runner, not a quick player, not explosive)
Porzingis 7.5 (Quick/fast by height, like a SF)
If Noah is a 7.5 on his list, someone SF-like has to score much higher..
Noah is considerably stronger, better balanced athlete. Porzingis has to make up lack of strength/base with quickness/speed. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
I thought he left because he wasn't going to be academically eligible?
In terms of mobility and body control from big men:
If prime KG was a 10, Anthony Davis is a 9.5, Deandre Jordan is a 9, Ibaka is an 8 and Noah is a 7.5....
Then....
Okafor is a ?
Towns is a ?
Porzingis is a ?
(Feel free to correct my scale on the current players. I'm just really trying to determine the perception on how well this year's bigs move and associate with players I seen plenty of.)
Okafor 6 (Average athlete, but jumps quickly, doesn't need to gather up)
Towns 7 (Better motor than Okafor, not a fast runner, not a quick player, not explosive)
Porzingis 7.5 (Quick/fast by height, like a SF)
If Noah is a 7.5 on his list, someone SF-like has to score much higher..
Noah is considerably stronger, better balanced athlete. Porzingis has to make up lack of strength/base with quickness/speed.
Yea I thought he was just rating mobility, speed, running fluidity etc. But ya in terms of effectiveness, Porzingis' mobility can be severely nutrilized by just putting a body on him and getting him off balance. Noah can be an athlete through contact.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
I thought he left because he wasn't going to be academically eligible?
That was the rumor at the time. Either way, I don't fault him.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
No doubt. I hope more players do it. His stock didn't fall because he went to China, his stock fell because we got to see him for what he is. The Harrison twins went to the premier program in the country, and their stock fell precipitously. Why? Because they weren't as good as advertised.
Any comparison of Mudiay's draft stock to the Harrison twins' stock is unfair. After a dozen games in China, Mudiay is still top 5 on most GMs lists and still has a shot at top 3 since Philly reportedly loves him. So it's not like his stock has fallen "precipitously." He may have gone from top 2 to top 3-5 at worst.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
No doubt. I hope more players do it. His stock didn't fall because he went to China, his stock fell because we got to see him for what he is. The Harrison twins went to the premier program in the country, and their stock fell precipitously. Why? Because they weren't as good as advertised.
Any comparison of Mudiay's draft stock to the Harrison twins' stock is unfair. After a dozen games in China, Mudiay is still top 5 on most GMs lists and still has a shot at top 3 since Philly reportedly loves him. So it's not like his stock has fallen "precipitously." He may have gone from top 2 to top 3-5 at worst.
I didn't say that his stock has fallen precipitously, but it has fallen. My point was that going to China didn't hurt him.
As unfortunate for us to not see him play at the NCAA level I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can fault him for choosing the money for his family. I know if things were rough for me and I had that decision to make....1000/1000 I go get that money while hoping the draft works out as well.
I thought he left because he wasn't going to be academically eligible?
That was the rumor at the time. Either way, I don't fault him.
Yeah that school had problems with eligibility for a few of its athletes due to the cirriculum, that place was a mess.
Despite the strong strides Holmes has made over the years on the offensive end, his biggest impact is on the defensive end, where he earned the MAC Defensive Player of the Year award this past season. Standing 6‘10“ with a 7‘1.5“ wingspan and a 9' standing reach, combined with a 34“ no-step vertical, as measured at the Portsmouth Invitational Tournament earlier this month, Holmes has the physical tools needed to make a significant impact defensively.
His length, explosiveness, and quickness off his feet, combined with good instincts and timing as a shot blocker, allowed Holmes to block 3.8 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted, tied for the 4th best figure in our database and just below the 4.2 per 40 minutes pace adjusted that Karl-Anthony Towns posted. The level of competition in the MAC, combined with a weak non-conference schedule, has to be factored in here, but Holmes has the physical tools, effort level, and instincts to make an impact on this side of the court.
So.. not only is LeVert going back to school.. so is Kris Dunn
Sources: Providence guard Kris Dunn plans to return for junior season
Providence guard Kris Dunn plans to return for his junior season and bypass the NBA draft, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
A formal announcement is expected soon, sources told Yahoo Sports.
Dunn is the highest-rated underclassman still publicly undecided about entering the June NBA draft. NBA executives believe the 6-foot-4 Dunn could have ascended into the late lottery – or the mid-part of the first round.
Draftexpress.com has Dunn pegged at No. 13 in its most recent mock draft.
Mudiay: Doesn't possess breath-taking speed, handle couldn't get past Sun Yue in CBA, was easily shut down when he forced him left.
He’s a well developed athlete for someone his age; lean but agile and bouncy off the ground. That athleticism translates best in transition. Mudiay doesn’t have long strides or sprints up the court with breath-taking speed, but he is quick and runs with fluidity.
---------
His quickness is also an asset when he attacks with his right hand in the half court. Mudiay creates great separation driving with his strong hand, both in isolation and out of the pick-and-roll — he has a tight handle and is able to turn on the jets in a pinch.
In saying that, he struggles greatly when forced left. Mudiay couldn’t get past or create any sort of separation with his off hand against NBA-caliber athletes, like Sun Yue and Stephon Marbury. He’s able to maintain his balance through contact (and there was a lot of contact) but doesn’t finish as well as he does with his right hand.
When kept in front, Mudiay has shown to be an iffy shooter off the dribble. He sets an uneven base pulling up, doesn’t elevate with great balance, often fails to release the ball at his highest point and will at times kick with both legs. He doesn’t fully extend himself and releases the ball from the front of his forehead.
He can make shots but not enough for defenses to feel uncomfortable sagging off him. Beijing did it quite aggressively in the semifinal series and Mudiay forced some shots early in the clock that were ill advised, especially considering how capable a shot creator he is late on possessions.
Mudiay is currently projected as a top five pick, and players selected in this range are often expected to impact winning at the highest level. I’m confident Mudiay will be a quality shot creator in the NBA; he should be able to get into the lane against a set defense and is a good passer at a young age. But whether he’ll be a transcending star will likely depend on if he develops as a scorer, and that’s where the risk lies.
The biggest concern is his ability to space the floor. Mudiay isn’t any sort of threat from outside the paint at this stage of his career. If he doesn’t develop, he’ll take away his team’s flexibility to play an offense where he doesn’t monopolize possession or otherwise limit their ceiling, similar to what we are seeing with Rajon Rondo in Dallas and Michael Carter-Williams in Milwaukee.
Mudiay got to the rim and finished at a respectable rate in the CBA, but defenders contest shots more actively in the NBA. When he faced two NBA-caliber athletes in his last two games in China, Mudiay struggled to create a quality shot when forced left. Defenders in America aren’t allowed to be as physical as Marbury was with him in China but they will look to take him out of his comfort zone just the same.
So, because an 18 year old JUST out of high school, isn't good enough to consistently beat a 29 year old professional player, the 18 year old won't be any good?
The analysis specifically mentioned that players in China were allowed to be more physical with him than they will be in the NBA. So, this 18 year old was playing in a more physical league against older, more mature players and he struggled at times. I' not saying he's a sure thing but let's remember his age here.
1. A lot of his potential is based around his athleticism.
2. Sun Yue isn't an elite athlete. He's average at best.
3. He's big at 6'5" 200+ at the PG slot, nearly on par with SGs and SFs from China. He can't compete against some physical play?
HE'S 18 YEARS OLD! I don't care how "big" he is at 18, he's not going to be as physical a player as a guy that's 10 years older and been playing in a professional league for a decade! He's also not going to be nearly as skilled, which would allow him to deal with that physicality.
Shaq was REALLY physical coming out of college and yet he wasn't nearly as physically dominant his rookie season as he would be later in his career.
Sun Yue's athleticism doesn't matter. That's the point of bringing up the physicality. If a guy is allowed to be really physical with a player then it takes the athleticism (speed, quickness) out of it. That's why the NBA has tried to take that out, so the wing players can show off their athleticism.
How about this, Okafor disappeared in the title game. Does that mean he doesn't stand a chance because Kaminsky could shut him down?
Well, I certainly can't blame Levert, it's just such a shame he got hurt this year, I really think he was primed to break out (although I know he had a tough team situation.) Dunn however? wtf man?
Despite the strong strides Holmes has made over the years on the offensive end, his biggest impact is on the defensive end, where he earned the MAC Defensive Player of the Year award this past season. Standing 6‘10“ with a 7‘1.5“ wingspan and a 9' standing reach, combined with a 34“ no-step vertical, as measured at the Portsmouth Invitational Tournament earlier this month, Holmes has the physical tools needed to make a significant impact defensively.
His length, explosiveness, and quickness off his feet, combined with good instincts and timing as a shot blocker, allowed Holmes to block 3.8 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted, tied for the 4th best figure in our database and just below the 4.2 per 40 minutes pace adjusted that Karl-Anthony Towns posted. The level of competition in the MAC, combined with a weak non-conference schedule, has to be factored in here, but Holmes has the physical tools, effort level, and instincts to make an impact on this side of the court.
Holmes could play some 5 in today's NBA... Great find
Look at the play at 1:45+ too. I've been itching for a Center to be able to do that, that was a tight little crossover, nice inside out move at 2:00 attacking from the 3pt line. DX says he's a work in progress off the dribble, prone to strips by guards on his takes. But he's got some skill there
And 40+ % from 3 are u kidding me. Center Draymond? Center Draymond!?
How do u like him? I think he's mid first talent. Fluid as hell, almost 6'11, long, explosive. Potential skills w the jumper and off the dribble out of triple threat. 7'2 wingspan in 2012, need new measurements.
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