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JoJo Dancer Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 7474
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Tark the Shark wrote: | Whether it's bad luck, a curse or incompetence, Jim Buss is perfect for tanking. |
Mitch is the Anti Jim though. When you tank you need to value draft picks and Mitch trades away draft picks like they were hot cakes. |
I'm not sure you understand why he traded them. |
Hey RingFinger, I understand why actually. I just don't know if I agree with it though. Especially with how the CBA is constructed today, I'm sure they will valued it more now though. |
He has traded picks just to get rid of players that he gave ridiculous contracts to in the first place. Sasha, Luke. He sold picks too Tony Douglas, Patrick Beverly. |
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rock0100 Star Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 5387
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Peoples Hernandez wrote: | TomSeaver wrote: | Idiots could have had Thomas and Stephenson for the price of Lin. |
Lin counts 8.5 million against the cap. So, no.
Thomas and Stephenson would of have been a ban-aid over a gaping flesh wound. |
What we have now, that's a bandaid. Isaiah and Lance at a combined $16 million when neither is over 25 years old...
Thats the beginning of a very good supporting cast for future stars to consider playing with. Lin is showing why Beverly beat him out as starter. Price will do the same soon. Jordan Hill is showing to be $8 million overpaid relative to what Ed Davis is doing. |
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lakerlynx Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Posts: 310
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Me too. I remember the feeling of satisfaction I got deleting it after the 2014 lottery. Sad to be back on tankathon so soon. The way things are going, we'll end up with the 6th pick and have to send it to Phoenix. _________________ Chick Hearn and Vin Scully. How lucky are we? |
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Peoples Hernandez Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 3727
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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lakerlynx wrote: |
Me too. I remember the feeling of satisfaction I got deleting it after the 2014 lottery. Sad to be back on tankathon so soon. The way things are going, we'll end up with the 6th pick and have to send it to Phoenix. |
Pretty sure this will happen. The league also might even "award" the top pick to Cleveland again too, using one of their bajillion picks over the next few years. Appeasing Dan Gilbert seems to be the leagues thing nowadays. _________________ Whenever the Lakers benefit all of a sudden rules need to be changed and trades need to be blocked.
"It's all entertainment" -Rasheed Wallace |
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Wino Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Might as well tank.
I'm looking around the league. Is there a worse team than the Lakers??
I think we are the worst team in the league. We've been bad before, but never this bad.
Honestly, I do NOT remember a team with less hope than this team EVER.
It is sad to see and more sad to believe but we got nothin', and nowhere to go.
To this day, I will always believe that the Buss family should have sued the NBA for screwing us on the Chris Paul trade. It ruined the franchise and caused us damage for over 10 years. It was a generational screwing and we just took it. Might as well have been thrown in a cell with Bubba.
We are NOT climbing out until Kobe retires and THEN it will take us 10 years.
I'm also beginning to believe that Jimbo has got to go. This team has become the laughing stock of professional sports. WTF is happening?? _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Wino wrote: | Might as well tank.
I'm looking around the league. Is there a worse team than the Lakers??
I think we are the worst team in the league. We've been bad before, but never this bad.
Honestly, I do NOT remember a team with less hope than this team EVER.
It is sad to see and more sad to believe but we got nothin', and nowhere to go.
To this day, I will always believe that the Buss family should have sued the NBA for screwing us on the Chris Paul trade. It ruined the franchise and caused us damage for over 10 years. It was a generational screwing and we just took it. Might as well have been thrown in a cell with Bubba.
We are NOT climbing out until Kobe retires and THEN it will take us 10 years.
I'm also beginning to believe that Jimbo has got to go. This team has become the laughing stock of professional sports. what the heck is happening?? |
I can't argue with you there. It's like we woke up and became the Clippers franchise. I miss Jerry Buss. |
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BirdMagicLegend Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Jun 2008 Posts: 345 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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It's interesting to see this topic year after year. I thought Laker fans never root for their team to tank. I certainly don't see this kind of topic on major Celtics forums. _________________ "Larry, you only told me one lie. You said there will be another Larry Bird. Larry, there will never, ever be another Larry Bird." — Magic Johnson |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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The thing I don't get about those who root for tanking is what type of culture that brings. As a fan you should never root for your team to lose. Right now I am hoping that the team still gets it together and builds on some type of run. if they don't then and the lakers get to keep their pick then that's great also. I just don't root for the team to lose. |
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cthroatgtr Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 1375
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: |
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BirdMagicLegend wrote: | It's interesting to see this topic year after year. I thought Laker fans never root for their team to tank. I certainly don't see this kind of topic on major Celtics forums. |
Celtics didn't have to, they basically gutted the entire roster. Didn't even have to hope for tanking. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | The thing I don't get about those who root for tanking is what type of culture that brings. As a fan you should never root for your team to lose. Right now I am hoping that the team still gets it together and builds on some type of run. if they don't then and the lakers get to keep their pick then that's great also. I just don't root for the team to lose. |
Well, from a FO perspective, it's like not equipping soldiers with jackets to fight in the winter. Fight like hell the FO says, but there you are shivering in the cold. Our roster is pretty sad and Kobe (and Ed Davis) are the only ones fighting. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:19 am Post subject: |
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LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Tark the Shark wrote: | Whether it's bad luck, a curse or incompetence, Jim Buss is perfect for tanking. |
Mitch is the Anti Jim though. When you tank you need to value draft picks and Mitch trades away draft picks like they were hot cakes. |
I'm not sure you understand why he traded them. |
Hey RingFinger, I understand why actually. I just don't know if I agree with it though. Especially with how the CBA is constructed today, I'm sure they will valued it more now though. |
So you were opposed to the FO going out to acquire big pieces (for whom moving picks was necessary) in order to try to capitalize on Kobe's final years then and get him/us at least one more ring?
You have to pay the piper at some point. Had we kept those picks, we would have been awful in 2012-2013 instead and the process would have started then. We moved the picks to give it one last shot, it didn't work, so we're paying the piper and being awful now instead.
The reason you can say now, that it would have been preferable to suck then, is because those years are already over.
But let's pretend right now, that we have those picks. A 2015 first round pick, a 2017 first round pick, and a conditional 2019 first round pick and some second round picks.
Would you move those picks to get pieces around Kobe right now knowing you won't have them later? Or hold on to them, suck now instead, and hope they pan out later? You can't have both, so which scenario would you prefer? |
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automatic Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Oct 2014 Posts: 103
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Is this draft worth tanking for? Sorry if I already missed long posts about this. |
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SemperMalum Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Posts: 1474
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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automatic wrote: | Is this draft worth tanking for? Sorry if I already missed long posts about this. |
There are several good players incoming this year that have good potential.
Okafor, Karl Towns, Mudiay, Cliff Alexander. We also have Houston's first round draft pick that will be range 15-24. If we get out draft pick, we can grab a lot of rookie bigs. 2015 has a LOT of SF/PF/Cs. |
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Artesties Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2009 Posts: 1115
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers won't have a problem keeping their pick. They're clearly the 2nd worst team in the league. |
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pd24 Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2014 Posts: 219
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Wino wrote: | Might as well tank.
I'm looking around the league. Is there a worse team than the Lakers??
I think we are the worst team in the league. We've been bad before, but never this bad.
Honestly, I do NOT remember a team with less hope than this team EVER.
It is sad to see and more sad to believe but we got nothin', and nowhere to go.
To this day, I will always believe that the Buss family should have sued the NBA for screwing us on the Chris Paul trade. It ruined the franchise and caused us damage for over 10 years. It was a generational screwing and we just took it. Might as well have been thrown in a cell with Bubba.
We are NOT climbing out until Kobe retires and THEN it will take us 10 years.
I'm also beginning to believe that Jimbo has got to go. This team has become the laughing stock of professional sports. what the heck is happening?? |
I did the same thing and I couldn't find a worse team. We have a bunch of bit pieces that don't fit together and nobody that can shoot. |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Tark the Shark wrote: | Whether it's bad luck, a curse or incompetence, Jim Buss is perfect for tanking. |
Mitch is the Anti Jim though. When you tank you need to value draft picks and Mitch trades away draft picks like they were hot cakes. |
I'm not sure you understand why he traded them. |
Hey RingFinger, I understand why actually. I just don't know if I agree with it though. Especially with how the CBA is constructed today, I'm sure they will valued it more now though. |
So you were opposed to the FO going out to acquire big pieces (for whom moving picks was necessary) in order to try to capitalize on Kobe's final years then and get him/us at least one more ring?
You have to pay the piper at some point. Had we kept those picks, we would have been awful in 2012-2013 instead and the process would have started then. We moved the picks to give it one last shot, it didn't work, so we're paying the piper and being awful now instead.
The reason you can say now, that it would have been preferable to suck then, is because those years are already over.
But let's pretend right now, that we have those picks. A 2015 first round pick, a 2017 first round pick, and a conditional 2019 first round pick and some second round picks.
Would you move those picks to get pieces around Kobe right now knowing you won't have them later? Or hold on to them, suck now instead, and hope they pan out later? You can't have both, so which scenario would you prefer? |
You know when I say I hope the Lakers value their draft picks more is because of this.
The Lakers gave away 7 Draft picks (3 first & 4 second rounders), Let Dwight walked, Sessions walked, and often injured Nash on the brink of retirement.
2012 - Lakers sends out for Dwight
All-Star center Andrew Bynum, a protected first-round pick from the Lakers in 2017 and a conditional second-rounder from the Lakers in 2015
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2012 - Lakers sends out for Steve Nash
the Suns get four draft picks - first-rounders in 2013 and 2015 and second-rounders in 2013 and 2014.
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2012 - Lakers sends out for Ramon Sessions and F Christian Eyenga
Luke Walton and Jason Kapono and a 2012 first-round draft pick
----------------------------------------
I know at that time we were trying to reload to help give Kobe a chance at the title. Unfortunately things didn't work out. The Dwight and Sessions deal didn't bother me. It sucks that we didn't get anything for Dwight. Mortgaging the future (4 draft picks) on a 40yr old PG in Steve Nash was a terrible decision. Nash was battling back issues throughout his career with Phoenix and to give away that many picks was a dumb move. So to answer your question, yes, I would have held onto the picks that went out for Nash, resigned Sessions and another FA pg.
These were the other Free Unrestricted Agent PGs in summer of 2011-2012
Steve Nash
Jason Terry
Goran Dragic
Chauncey Billups
Nate Robinson
Jameer Nelson (P)
Deron Williams (P)
Leandro Barbosa
Andre Miller
Jordan Farmar (P)
Kirk Hinrich
Jannero Pargo |
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bandiger Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Posts: 12555
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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SemperMalum wrote: | automatic wrote: | Is this draft worth tanking for? Sorry if I already missed long posts about this. |
There are several good players incoming this year that have good potential.
Okafor, Karl Towns, Mudiay, Cliff Alexander. We also have Houston's first round draft pick that will be range 15-24. If we get out draft pick, we can grab a lot of rookie bigs. 2015 has a LOT of SF/PF/Cs. |
Future will look pretty good if we can keep the 2015 draft pick. Enough assets to work with anyways. |
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Mini Mamba Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013 Posts: 6006
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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If we happen to get a top 5 pick this year should we trade it away to give Kobe one last chance at a ring?
Or should we keep it and have another top young player besides Randle to build around for the future. |
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EZ-Ryder Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 843
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Artesties wrote: | Lakers won't have a problem keeping their pick. They're clearly the 2nd worst team in the league. |
I don't know about that. They've looked bad so far but I don't think Lin and boozer are as bad as they are currently playing. Also Ed Davis isn't getting the minutes he should be getting and that will probably change. I still think Philadelphia, Boston, Milwaukee, Utah, and maybe Orlando will finish with worse records. No way we play this bad for all 82 games. |
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angrypuppy Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32730
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if we're the second worst team, we have some serious competition. We dedicated tankers see threats everywhere: Orlando, Utah, Detroit, Utah... even the Bucks might mount a spirited retreat. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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angrypuppy wrote: | I don't know if we're the second worst team, we have some serious competition. We dedicated tankers see threats everywhere: Orlando, Utah, Detroit, Utah... even the Bucks might mount a spirited retreat. |
We are certainly not professionals at tanking, and thank God.
But this year, if we are say 3-23 in our first 25 games, why not? (Or is it better to do a stealth tank)? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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automatic Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Oct 2014 Posts: 103
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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SemperMalum wrote: | automatic wrote: | Is this draft worth tanking for? Sorry if I already missed long posts about this. |
There are several good players incoming this year that have good potential.
Okafor, Karl Towns, Mudiay, Cliff Alexander. We also have Houston's first round draft pick that will be range 15-24. If we get out draft pick, we can grab a lot of rookie bigs. 2015 has a LOT of SF/PF/Cs. |
Thanks. Sounds fun with Randle hopefully coming back if we can get two good rookies next year and keep the guys we want from this year's team. |
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Lakers_Jester Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 5366
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Only team worse than us without a doubt is phili. Indy? |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Tark the Shark wrote: | Whether it's bad luck, a curse or incompetence, Jim Buss is perfect for tanking. |
Mitch is the Anti Jim though. When you tank you need to value draft picks and Mitch trades away draft picks like they were hot cakes. |
I'm not sure you understand why he traded them. |
Hey RingFinger, I understand why actually. I just don't know if I agree with it though. Especially with how the CBA is constructed today, I'm sure they will valued it more now though. |
So you were opposed to the FO going out to acquire big pieces (for whom moving picks was necessary) in order to try to capitalize on Kobe's final years then and get him/us at least one more ring?
You have to pay the piper at some point. Had we kept those picks, we would have been awful in 2012-2013 instead and the process would have started then. We moved the picks to give it one last shot, it didn't work, so we're paying the piper and being awful now instead.
The reason you can say now, that it would have been preferable to suck then, is because those years are already over.
But let's pretend right now, that we have those picks. A 2015 first round pick, a 2017 first round pick, and a conditional 2019 first round pick and some second round picks.
Would you move those picks to get pieces around Kobe right now knowing you won't have them later? Or hold on to them, suck now instead, and hope they pan out later? You can't have both, so which scenario would you prefer? |
You know when I say I hope the Lakers value their draft picks more is because of this.
The Lakers gave away 7 Draft picks (3 first & 4 second rounders), Let Dwight walked, Sessions walked, and often injured Nash on the brink of retirement. |
You didn't answer my question though. Let's pretend we didn't give those picks away when we did and we still had them.
Would you move those picks, to try to surround Kobe with talent and win now?
Or hold on to them, and hope the draft picks we would have, after Kobe hangs them up, will pan out 5-7 years down the road? |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | LakerLand247 wrote: | Tark the Shark wrote: | Whether it's bad luck, a curse or incompetence, Jim Buss is perfect for tanking. |
Mitch is the Anti Jim though. When you tank you need to value draft picks and Mitch trades away draft picks like they were hot cakes. |
I'm not sure you understand why he traded them. |
Hey RingFinger, I understand why actually. I just don't know if I agree with it though. Especially with how the CBA is constructed today, I'm sure they will valued it more now though. |
So you were opposed to the FO going out to acquire big pieces (for whom moving picks was necessary) in order to try to capitalize on Kobe's final years then and get him/us at least one more ring?
You have to pay the piper at some point. Had we kept those picks, we would have been awful in 2012-2013 instead and the process would have started then. We moved the picks to give it one last shot, it didn't work, so we're paying the piper and being awful now instead.
The reason you can say now, that it would have been preferable to suck then, is because those years are already over.
But let's pretend right now, that we have those picks. A 2015 first round pick, a 2017 first round pick, and a conditional 2019 first round pick and some second round picks.
Would you move those picks to get pieces around Kobe right now knowing you won't have them later? Or hold on to them, suck now instead, and hope they pan out later? You can't have both, so which scenario would you prefer? |
You know when I say I hope the Lakers value their draft picks more is because of this.
The Lakers gave away 7 Draft picks (3 first & 4 second rounders), Let Dwight walked, Sessions walked, and often injured Nash on the brink of retirement. |
You didn't answer my question though. Let's pretend we didn't give those picks away when we did and we still had them.
Would you move those picks, to try to surround Kobe with talent and win now?
Or hold on to them, and hope the draft picks we would have, after Kobe hangs them up, will pan out 5-7 years down the road? |
Giving up a couple of draft picks for Dwight was a no-brainer at the time. I was just oppose to giving up 4 draft picks for a 38 yr old Steve Nash. I would trade those draft picks for a chance to win for a couple of years but, I would also take assurance that we protect our investments by not letting them walk away for nothing and or not investing on a 38yr old PG. |
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