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DaMuleRules
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Laker Lover
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 Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
So you're cool with torturing innocent people?
http://www.innocenceproject.org/ |
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K0BEE 2.0
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Joined: 17 May 2013
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Location: I wish I knew
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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dvdrdiscs
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 6274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
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frijolero01
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Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 13324
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
Jail's torture itself. Ever been stuck inside a small cell for 23 hours?
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
Thousands of years of human civilization has proven your archaic ideas don't work the way you think they do. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| While I sympathize with the judge's reasoning (that the absurd delays in the post-conviction process are so extreme as to render the entire process unconstitutional), I would be surprised if this ruling survives on appeal. The judge was appointed by Dub, though, so this is not some liberal crusader. |
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Laker Lover
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Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
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Laker Lover
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Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| All you have to do is imagine the person you love most being brutalized and murdered to consider torturing the criminal. Sitting in jail or death sentence is not enough punishment in my eyes. I would practically be imprisoned too the rest of my life in agony, what would be the difference? Killing the criminal while i live in agony is not justice either. |
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Theseus
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Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 14166
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| If they float they're guilty, if they sink they're innocent. Why did we go away from this system? |
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dvdrdiscs
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 6274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Turns out that even in some cases of confession, the person ends up actually innocent. Sometimes the tactics employed by law enforcements stresses out the person so much that they admit guilt just to get them to stop. |
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DaMuleRules
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
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Roger O. Thornhill
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 12414
Location: Deep Space 9
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Shlumpledink wrote: | | If they float they're guilty, if they sink they're innocent. Why did we go away from this system? |
Because black people can't swim? |
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67622
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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To late for Tookie Williams, who I knew personally. Yes, he was a violent man and his sentence was in accordance to law.
Stanley's time in jail changed his way of thinking and he was actually changing the paths of some Black youth. I thought Arnold Schwarzenegger should have commuted his sentence, granted clemency.
I'm not in favor of a life for a life. How a person convicted of certain crimes is punished has me conflicted.
I lean toward the resurrection of penal colonies. That's a horrible way to exist. All I've read tells me penal colonies ain't nothing nice, they ain't no joke.
Another mode of punishing an offender is solitary confinement. Being locked in a 7x11, 22 of 24 hours, with no human contact, no radio, TV, newspapers, left only to your inner thoughts, alone for the rest of your existence has to be excruciating. Some have said that's cruel and inhuman punishment. IMO some deserve CIP.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Laker Lover
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
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Laker Lover
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
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DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
No. It's revenge, and bloodthirsty revenge at that. No attempts to spin it as "justice" will change that. Feeding the cycle of violence by supporting torture isn't remotely justice. It's simply engaging in more antisocial behavior. Prison is far more than just "3 hots and a cot" - to think differently is naive at best. |
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Laker Lover
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
No. It's revenge, and bloodthirsty revenge at that. No attempts to spin it as "justice" will change that. Feeding the cycle of violence by supporting torture isn't remotely justice. It's simply engaging in more antisocial behavior. Prison is far more than just "3 hots and a cot" - to think differently is naive at best. |
I doubt you or anyone of your loved ones has gone through what some of these criminals have put victims through. Its apparent you can't put yourself in other peoples shoes. See these victims souls go through pain, anguish, suffering, children who lose their financial support, love, affection, soo much is taken from them. Now if its possible for you to put yourself in that perspective and think jail is enough and that is justice and makes up for the killing, then you are delusional. You taking the high road or trying to look politically correct doesn't fly with me. |
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DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
No. It's revenge, and bloodthirsty revenge at that. No attempts to spin it as "justice" will change that. Feeding the cycle of violence by supporting torture isn't remotely justice. It's simply engaging in more antisocial behavior. Prison is far more than just "3 hots and a cot" - to think differently is naive at best. |
I doubt you or anyone of your loved ones has gone through what some of these criminals have put victims through. Its apparent you can't put yourself in other peoples shoes. See these victims souls go through pain, anguish, suffering, children who lose their financial support, love, affection, soo much is taken from them. Now if its possible for you to put yourself in that perspective and think jail is enough and that is justice and makes up for the killing, then you are delusional. You taking the high road or trying to look politically correct doesn't fly with me. |
Don't presume to speak for everyone on this matter. You don't know half of what you think you do. Without getting too personal, my dad was taken from me by someone like you speak of, and I found forgiveness in my heart. I'm at a better place because of it. Revenge wouldn't have made me feel any better.
I noticed you ignored my link to the innocence project above. We know our justice system fails. Torturing people is stone age barbarism and has no place in civilized society. If you like it so well, go move your family to Afghanistan. |
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rak_90046
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Each death Penalty case costs one million dollars. waste of money state is doing. no execution since 2006. since 1976, 3 billions dollars capital punishment in California. George Carlin had a joke: should we sterilize the needle before we inject? |
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Laker Lover
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
No. It's revenge, and bloodthirsty revenge at that. No attempts to spin it as "justice" will change that. Feeding the cycle of violence by supporting torture isn't remotely justice. It's simply engaging in more antisocial behavior. Prison is far more than just "3 hots and a cot" - to think differently is naive at best. |
I doubt you or anyone of your loved ones has gone through what some of these criminals have put victims through. Its apparent you can't put yourself in other peoples shoes. See these victims souls go through pain, anguish, suffering, children who lose their financial support, love, affection, soo much is taken from them. Now if its possible for you to put yourself in that perspective and think jail is enough and that is justice and makes up for the killing, then you are delusional. You taking the high road or trying to look politically correct doesn't fly with me. |
Don't presume to speak for everyone on this matter. You don't know half of what you think you do. Without getting too personal, my dad was taken from me by someone like you speak of, and I found forgiveness in my heart. I'm at a better place because of it. Revenge wouldn't have made me feel any better.
I noticed you ignored my link to the innocence project above. We know our justice system fails. Torturing people is stone age barbarism and has no place in civilized society. If you like it so well, go move your family to Afghanistan. |
Sorry to hear that. I know several people who have gone through crap like that unjustly, mainly by gang members who act so hard and for what? I would send them that message of torture. Cause torture is what victims and their families have to deal with in the aftermath. Its unfair to the victims and I feel the criminals must feel the same pain. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
No. It's revenge, and bloodthirsty revenge at that. No attempts to spin it as "justice" will change that. Feeding the cycle of violence by supporting torture isn't remotely justice. It's simply engaging in more antisocial behavior. Prison is far more than just "3 hots and a cot" - to think differently is naive at best. |
I doubt you or anyone of your loved ones has gone through what some of these criminals have put victims through. Its apparent you can't put yourself in other peoples shoes. See these victims souls go through pain, anguish, suffering, children who lose their financial support, love, affection, soo much is taken from them. Now if its possible for you to put yourself in that perspective and think jail is enough and that is justice and makes up for the killing, then you are delusional. You taking the high road or trying to look politically correct doesn't fly with me. |
I understand how you feel, and if my family member was the victim, I would feel the same way. Which is exactly why I oppose the death penalty. Inflicting suffering on an offender only has value to the degree that it stops further offenses. And it doesn't. By any measurable standard. In fact, inflicting suffering strictly as payback for the crime increases violence. It is atavistic, and puts society in the same level as the offender. The very reasons I would want someone to suffer for hurting my family are the best arguments against it.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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DuncanIdaho
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | dvdrdiscs wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | Heres my perspective. The person who commited the crime and done it with malicious intent should feel the same agony the victim or relatives of the victim are feeling. Death diesnt inflict any emotional pain. Neither does sitting in a jail cell. I propose torture. Thats the only way the criminal will feel the agony the victims are feeling. Jail time doesnt deter crime. But when word gets out that torture in jail awaits them during their sentence, i think it would make idiots think twice. I would only consider torture for major crimes like murder. Death sentence is weak. |
With death and torture, you always run the risk of being wrong. In a perfect society, our justice department would follow the proper procedures in order to ensure those who are convicted are 100% guilty. But you know how that goes. Imagine torturing someone or killing them, then finding out his conviction was based on fabricated or false evidence. Oooh boy. You don't want that on your hands.
End the war on drugs, free up resources, and just incarcerate these people for life. |
You have a point there but lets say he even confesses to doing the crime and/or has no remorse while family of the victim suffers. And to dmrs point of not working, even if it doesnt deter, i still think torture would be the right punishment. |
Lowering oneself to vile behavior simply out of a desire for revenge is far from the right punishment. |
Its not revenge, its justice. Everyone else works for food and shelter and the criminal gets it handed to him for free and that seems like punishment to you. I disagree. |
No. It's revenge, and bloodthirsty revenge at that. No attempts to spin it as "justice" will change that. Feeding the cycle of violence by supporting torture isn't remotely justice. It's simply engaging in more antisocial behavior. Prison is far more than just "3 hots and a cot" - to think differently is naive at best. |
I doubt you or anyone of your loved ones has gone through what some of these criminals have put victims through. Its apparent you can't put yourself in other peoples shoes. See these victims souls go through pain, anguish, suffering, children who lose their financial support, love, affection, soo much is taken from them. Now if its possible for you to put yourself in that perspective and think jail is enough and that is justice and makes up for the killing, then you are delusional. You taking the high road or trying to look politically correct doesn't fly with me. |
Don't presume to speak for everyone on this matter. You don't know half of what you think you do. Without getting too personal, my dad was taken from me by someone like you speak of, and I found forgiveness in my heart. I'm at a better place because of it. Revenge wouldn't have made me feel any better.
I noticed you ignored my link to the innocence project above. We know our justice system fails. Torturing people is stone age barbarism and has no place in civilized society. If you like it so well, go move your family to Afghanistan. |
Sorry to hear that. I know several people who have gone through crap like that unjustly, mainly by gang members who act so hard and for what? I would send them that message of torture. Cause torture is what victims and their families have to deal with in the aftermath. Its unfair to the victims and I feel the criminals must feel the same pain. |
Sorry about my Afghanistan comment -- it was uncalled for.
And I also understand the pain people go through because well, I went through it. And I also understand the call for revenge: I felt that way myself at one point. However, revenge doesn't heal, and it wouldn't deter people any in way.
Honestly, even if revenge/torture were a perfectly legitimate response and accepted in civilized society, I still wouldn't want it. I'd feel 10x worse if someone innocent went through it, and innocent people are already jailed and put to death. |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17248
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Laker Lover wrote: | | I doubt you or anyone of your loved ones has gone through what some of these criminals have put victims through. Its apparent you can't put yourself in other peoples shoes. See these victims souls go through pain, anguish, suffering, children who lose their financial support, love, affection, soo much is taken from them. Now if its possible for you to put yourself in that perspective and think jail is enough and that is justice and makes up for the killing, then you are delusional. You taking the high road or trying to look politically correct doesn't fly with me. |
I understand how you feel, and if my family member was the victim, I would feel the same way. Which is exactly why I oppose the death penalty. Inflicting suffering on an offender only has value to the degree that it stops further offenses. And it doesn't. By any measurable standard. In fact, inflicting suffering strictly as payback for the crime increases violence. It is atavistic, and puts society in the same level as the offender. The very reasons I would want someone to suffer for hurting my family are the best arguments against it. |
You put it better than I did. |
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