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numero-ocho
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Wolves reportedly prefer Thompson to Wiggins so if the Warriors budge, Love is a Warrior.
| Quote: | @Probballdraft
Not to burst Cavs fans bubble but if Warriors are willing to include Thompson that trumps Cavs. Wolves prefer Klay bc more ready per source. |
NBC
Don't agree with that. Why would the Wolves care that Thompson is "more ready"? Despite years and years of waiting, they're still in building mode.
Wiggins' ceiling is much higher and he doesn't play the same position as the recently drafted Lavine.
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | i still don't understand the value of Love, the guy puts up monster numbers on a lottery team, not the first one and won't be the last one to do so. and he likes to operate on perimeter on offense even though he's not athletic to blow by defender, on top of that he's a sub-par low post defender. i just don't get all the fuss about Love. i would say he's poor man's Bosh of 4 years ago. |
Gasol never even won a playoff game in Memphis, but look at how good he looked next to Kobe. |
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | Wolves reportedly prefer Thompson to Wiggins so if the Warriors budge, Love is a Warrior.
| Quote: | @Probballdraft
Not to burst Cavs fans bubble but if Warriors are willing to include Thompson that trumps Cavs. Wolves prefer Klay bc more ready per source. |
NBC
Don't agree with that. Why would the Wolves care that Thompson is "more ready"? Despite years and years of waiting, they're still in building mode.
Wiggins' ceiling is much higher and he doesn't play the same position as the recently drafted Lavine. |
They have LaVine playing PG and SG. Klay can play the 2 and 3. I don't see that as a problem.
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
LeBron doesn't want to waste a year of his prime.
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | focus wrote: | If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
LeBron doesn't want to waste a year of his prime. |
You are probably right. But I wonder if he really thinks that proposed team is sufficient to win this year. Maybe KL is really that good. |
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WindyCityLakerFan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Socks wrote: | I'm not trading Wiggins yet if I'm the Cavs. What's the rush? The Warriors don't seem like they're going to include Thompson anytime soon, so where's the competition?
See how wiggins fits in and how he develops next to the rest of the guys on the team. If he can be a really good perimeter defender he saves Lebron a ton of energy. With Kyrie and Lebron he doesn't need to do much on offense anyway. |
I'm with you. I read they offered Bennett , Waiters and a number 1 and were rebuffed then offered Wiggins. Golden state is offering Lee and Barnes and the celtics deal is built around sullinger. Cleveland has a first from Miami next year that could be a good pick. I'm not sure as far as young talent anyone can make a better deal |
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WindyCityLakerFan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | Wonder what changed their minds. If the Cavs offer Wiggins, the T-Wolves should accept the trade on the spot. Getting back-to-back #1 overall picks and a future first? Can't imagine they would ever get a better deal than that for Love. |
General Manager LeBron James |
Yup signing a 2 year deal with a opt out after 1 gave Lebron all the power pretty much. They don't make the moves he wants and he can bolt. He knew that when he signed it. Obviously its no surprise that Cavs signed Miller/Jones from his Heat days and went after Ray and Birdman. |
He signed a two year deal because the nba is getting ready for a new tv deal. From what I've read revenues are flowing. The bucks and kings sold for 500 million and the clippers 2 billion. With the new tv contract the 2016 cap could be 80 million.
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=11207703&type=story
Going from 63 million in 2014 to 80 in 2016 shows you how much the owners are making. That lockout was the greatest farce ever by a sports league. I wish I could go back and pull up the threads with everyone saying the players should give in and they're greedy and see what they say now |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | eureca wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | Wonder what changed their minds. If the Cavs offer Wiggins, the T-Wolves should accept the trade on the spot. Getting back-to-back #1 overall picks and a future first? Can't imagine they would ever get a better deal than that for Love. |
General Manager LeBron James |
Yup signing a 2 year deal with a opt out after 1 gave Lebron all the power pretty much. They don't make the moves he wants and he can bolt. He knew that when he signed it. Obviously its no surprise that Cavs signed Miller/Jones from his Heat days and went after Ray and Birdman. |
He signed a two year deal because the nba is getting ready for a new tv deal. From what I've read revenues are flowing. The bucks and kings sold for 500 million and the clippers 2 billion. With the new tv contract the 2016 cap could be 80 million.
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=11207703&type=story
Going from 63 million in 2014 to 80 in 2016 shows you how much the owners are making. That lockout was the greatest farce ever by a sports league. I wish I could go back and pull up the threads with everyone saying the players should give in and they're greedy and see what they say now |
It doesn't matter why he signed it(we all know the reason at this point, there is no schooling anybody), the fact of the matter is that he can opt out whenever he wants after the next 2 seasons. He holds the power. And you can be sure that when/if he re-signs, he will have more opt out clauses in his contract. He is pretty much their GM at this point. He owns them.
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | eureca wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | Jeffs wrote: | | Wonder what changed their minds. If the Cavs offer Wiggins, the T-Wolves should accept the trade on the spot. Getting back-to-back #1 overall picks and a future first? Can't imagine they would ever get a better deal than that for Love. |
General Manager LeBron James |
Yup signing a 2 year deal with a opt out after 1 gave Lebron all the power pretty much. They don't make the moves he wants and he can bolt. He knew that when he signed it. Obviously its no surprise that Cavs signed Miller/Jones from his Heat days and went after Ray and Birdman. |
He signed a two year deal because the nba is getting ready for a new tv deal. From what I've read revenues are flowing. The bucks and kings sold for 500 million and the clippers 2 billion. With the new tv contract the 2016 cap could be 80 million.
http://espn.go.com/espn/print?id=11207703&type=story
Going from 63 million in 2014 to 80 in 2016 shows you how much the owners are making. That lockout was the greatest farce ever by a sports league. I wish I could go back and pull up the threads with everyone saying the players should give in and they're greedy and see what they say now |
It doesn't matter why he signed it(we all know the reason at this point, there is no schooling anybody), the fact of the matter is that he can opt out whenever he wants after the next 2 seasons. He holds the power. And you can be sure that when/if he re-signs, he will have more opt out clauses in his contract. He is pretty much their GM at this point. He owns them. |
which sucks.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
The extra $$ Love gets for resigning with the Cavs if they have his bird rights, as opposed to coming over as a free agent. If he gets traded to a decent place that extra $$ may be enough to convince him to stay (see Chris Bosh). |
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focus
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | focus wrote: | If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
The extra $$ Love gets for resigning with the Cavs if they have his bird rights, as opposed to coming over as a free agent. If he gets traded to a decent place that extra $$ may be enough to convince him to stay (see Chris Bosh). |
Ok, perfect. Thanks. |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
I think you pretty much covered it except for one thing
if Love wasn't 100% set with going to GSW & with the team they'd have left after a trade, he could just refuse to sign an extension with GSW - that would effectively kill any trade there, since no one will give up that many resources unless they had a guarantee of him staying more than 6 months
He could do the same to the Cavs of course, but he's already let it be known he'd be "intrigued" by playing with LBJ and would sign an extension with the Cavs if traded there
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | focus wrote: | If Love has already stated his willingness to sign long term with Lebron, why should they trade Wiggins now? Lebron sounded willing to be patient. Then scoop up KLove next year, while keeping Wiggins. Yes, he can be traded to GS or somewhere, but he would still have to reup. Suppose Cleveland balks at trading Wiggins, and Minny sends KL to GS. So what? Still is a free agent next year. Unless GS would clearly jump to true contender, would he not be tempted to play with Lebron then, plus Wiggins?
I'm missing something obvious here, aren't I? |
I think you pretty much covered it except for one thing
if Love wasn't 100% set with going to GSW & with the team they'd have left after a trade, he could just refuse to sign an extension with GSW - that would effectively kill any trade there, since no one will give up that many resources unless they had a guarantee of him staying more than 6 months
He could do the same to the Cavs of course, but he's already let it be known he'd be "intrigued" by playing with LBJ and would sign an extension with the Cavs if traded there |
Earlier Bird rights. |
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The_Dynasty24
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Joined: 12 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Kinda off topic, but suddenly Lebron is deciding between wearing #6 or #23 again.
What ever happened to "If I can't wear number 23, nobody should be able to"? |
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n3bulous
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Laker Lover wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Wow. Giving up Wiggins for Love sounds insane. |
I would keep Wiggins to the point of not signing Lebron if Lebron wants Wiggins gone for Love.
I think Wiggins has the Kobe highlights factor and could be a 30ppg Scottie Pippen type defensive player.
LeBron is a lil whiner. He signed a 2 year deal and has the option of leaving next summer. I wouldn't cave in to that guy, but the worse lil whiner Dan Gilber deserves to get screwed over. |
Wiggins doesn't even come close to Kobe at the same age. Skill level isn't even comparable.
I don't care how athletic you are, if you're a perimeter player with poor ball skills, there's little chance you ever become an elite player.
He's living off high school hype. People are just ignoring how underwhelming he was in college because of that hype.
Cavs should have traded him for Love before summer league, before he just confirmed the same flaws he showed his entire college career. Of course the Wolves are asking for more now that they've seen him play in summer league. Should've traded him while there was still some "mystery," and there was a chance that Minny's GM was wishfully thinking maybe his college flaws were a fluke and may have still been under the spell of his high school hype. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Cavs are idiots to trade Wiggins, but their held hostage by Bron at this point so they have to do what he wants or he's gone in 2 years. Wolves management playing like they got nothing to lose because if they don't trade him to the Cavs the other offers are pretty crappy in comparison. |
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Fallout
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Posts: 7626
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Wow. Giving up Wiggins for Love sounds insane. |
How is giving up an unproven rookie for arguably the best PF in the league insane? The only reason for the Cavs not to pull the trigger on that move is that they possibly have enough assets to get Love and still keep Wiggins-which would be borderline highway robbery. |
There are people here who would not trade Randel for him so...
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Telleris
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | Wolves reportedly prefer Thompson to Wiggins so if the Warriors budge, Love is a Warrior.
| Quote: | @Probballdraft
Not to burst Cavs fans bubble but if Warriors are willing to include Thompson that trumps Cavs. Wolves prefer Klay bc more ready per source. |
NBC
Don't agree with that. Why would the Wolves care that Thompson is "more ready"? Despite years and years of waiting, they're still in building mode.
Wiggins' ceiling is much higher and he doesn't play the same position as the recently drafted Lavine. |
They're just posturing to try and get more (bleep) out of Cleveland. This whole Love thing has been awful, it's been played out in the press to get leverage in the most obvious way. |
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eureca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I would take Wiggins over Thompson in the Twolves situation no question. Also the Cavs trade doesn't require you to take David Lee's contract which still has 2 years on it. 31 year old Lee really makes no sense for Wolves in a rebuilding stage. Thompson is probably gonna get the max after this season which the Wolves will be on the hook for going forward. Thompson is a very good player, but not someone you necessarily want to build around on a max deal.
Wiggins you have on a rookie deal for 4 seasons and then hes a restricted FA. Bennett still has 3 years on his rookie deal. If they want Thompson he will have to be paid after this coming season as its his final year.
If Wiggins is being offered as the center piece of a trade I don't see Wolves getting a better offer then what the Cavs can give. |
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lakers0505
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | I would take Wiggins over Thompson in the Twolves situation no question. Also the Cavs trade doesn't require you to take David Lee's contract which still has 2 years on it. 31 year old Lee really makes no sense for Wolves in a rebuilding stage. Thompson is probably gonna get the max after this season which the Wolves will be on the hook for going forward. Thompson is a very good player, but not someone you necessarily want to build around on a max deal.
Wiggins you have on a rookie deal for 4 seasons and then hes a restricted FA. Bennett still has 3 years on his rookie deal. If they want Thompson he will have to be paid after this coming season as its his final year.
If Wiggins is being offered as the center piece of a trade I don't see Wolves getting a better offer then what the Cavs can give. |
This makes complete sense and I agree.
Now these are the Twolves, and for some unknown reason (Flip Saunders), they want to win now.
I wouldn't be shocked if they want Lee so they can win now.  |
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eureca
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | @SamAmicoFSO
Cavs have talked a lot with TWolves over past 36 hours, sources say. Not surprisingly, Andrew Wiggins said to be at center of discussion. |
| Quote: | @SamAmicoFSO
One source familiar with Cavs-TWolves talks described them this way: "It's getting real." |
| Quote: | @ESPNSteinLine
Cavs know it'll cost Wiggins/Bennett/future first to get Love. If Wolves insist on moving Kevin Martin with Love, more pieces must be added |
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Basketball Fan
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 24763
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:49 am Post subject: |
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http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/22/report-cavaliers-to-sign-andrew-wiggins-as-early-as-wednesday/
| Quote: | Report: Cavaliers to sign Andrew Wiggins as early as Wednesday
We passed along the report a couple of days ago that the Cavaliers were expected to sign Andrew Wiggins to his rookie contract sometime this week, and discussed at the time how that may or may not impact any trade talks Cleveland has going with the Timberwolves on a potential deal for Kevin Love.
The only thing that’s changed since then is that we may have a firm date for Wiggins to be signed, and it could be as early as Wednesday.
From Tom Withers of The Associated Press:
A person familiar with the negotiations says the Cavs will sign the No. 1 overall pick to his deal, an agreement that would prevent any potential trade involving the small forward from being completed for 30 days.
Wiggins has been linked to a possible trade with Minnesota for All-Star forward Kevin Love. The person familiar with the talks says Wiggins will sign with Cleveland as early as Wednesday. The person spoke to The Associated Press on Tuesday on condition of anonymity because the team is not commenting on its plans.
Signing Wiggins wouldn’t necessarily take him out of trade talks for Love; it would merely delay the earliest date when the transaction could be completed. But a trade for Love involving Wiggins could still be agreed to before then, just as free agent signings are during the moratorium period in the early days of July.
Reports have conflicted on whether or not Wiggins has been made available in a deal for Love — we’ve heard that both he and Anthony Bennett could be dealt, and we’ve heard Cavaliers head coach David Blatt say that Wiggins is “not going anywhere,” as well.
Obviously, it remains to be seen whether Wiggins might be traded, or even if the Cavaliers are able to put together a strong enough package to entice Minnesota to part ways with Love at all — especially now that the Bulls have re-entered the picture. But either way, it looks like Wiggins will be under contract with Cleveland beginning this week. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | Wow. Giving up Wiggins for Love sounds insane. |
How is giving up an unproven rookie for arguably the best PF in the league insane? The only reason for the Cavs not to pull the trigger on that move is that they possibly have enough assets to get Love and still keep Wiggins-which would be borderline highway robbery. |
Because it is quite likely that Wiggins will be a 10-12 time all-star while Love as probably 4-5 more quality years like that. You rarely see this type of move. And it's not JUST Wiggins. The Cavs have to make salaries work, lots of other talent is going out. Already Wiggins is as good DeMar DeRozan, I promise you on that. How much better can he get? Don't know, but he'll be a very good player for a long time.
The main benefit is that they would be closer to the top 2 in the East playoffs than the 7th/8th seed. However, to really justify this they would need Love to stay on for 5 years at least and Lebron the same. Lebron/Love/Irving playing together for 5 years likely yields a few deep playoff runs with a possibility of a title or two, depending on other factors. It's a good move for CLE, IF Lebron stays on beyond these 2 years and Love re-signs for 4 more years. Those are IF's not certain things. If the Lakers were in the same boat, I'd pass on dealing Wiggins for Love to be honest. |
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thejet24
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Odds of winning NBA lottery 4 out of 12 years?
0.00012%
Dan Gilbert is either the luckiest man alive, or did Stern and the league a huge favor at some point.
Hard to believe it's just by chance the Cavs are in a position where they got consecutive #1 picks and are on the verge of flipping them for a certified all-star the same year LeBron is a FA.
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