Where does the Mamba rank if he gets a ring this year?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Only chance I see this Lakers team winning it all any time soon is if Randle is FAR better than projected. Miles better. LBJ-type. And soon.

Disregarding that, and if any hopes of winning it all rest in Kobe, and Lakers still win it all, then, yeah... Rank would be something like...

God > Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MJ > Rest of mortals.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:08 am    Post subject:

I think anything is possible because there is always a chance mitch and jim somehow make a mega trade during the season to put us in title contention.... that is why hill got a short term deal so when the opportunity comes for a big trade you can just add hills salary to match the players cap figure....

That is why im shocked that everyone is dismissing the lakers from winning it all... there is always a chance this team exceeds expectations and also the mangement making trades to give us a chance for a playoff run.
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deal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now.


I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that.



Completely agree. Kobe is where he is on the standings. Only in Kobe fans minds would anything change, but that's it.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:01 am    Post subject:

K0BEE 2.0 wrote:
I think anything is possible because there is always a chance mitch and jim somehow make a mega trade during the season to put us in title contention.... that is why hill got a short term deal so when the opportunity comes for a big trade you can just add hills salary to match the players cap figure....

That is why im shocked that everyone is dismissing the lakers from winning it all... there is always a chance this team exceeds expectations and also the mangement making trades to give us a chance for a playoff run.


There's always a chance these Lakers go 82-0 and then 16-0 to win it all. Anything is possible.

If you're actually truly shocked, then it's because you don't have a pulse on what people are actually saying.

No one is saying that it is impossible -- they're saying it is improbable. Unlikely.

For this team to pull off a mega trade that would get them to title contention ... a few things would have to occur.

1) Kobe would need to be healthy, near 100%
2) The team would need to be right near the middle of the playoff seeds (like a 4-6 seed or better) just prior to the trading deadline.
3) A mega trade scenario would have to be available (meaning, you need motivated sellers)

Certainly, having all of those things happen isn't impossible but they aren't likely. To be honest with you, I'm more shocked to know that you're actually "shocked" that people might say we won't be winning it this year.

Just curious. Who do you think will win the title this year? The Lakers?
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deal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
K0BEE 2.0 wrote:
I think anything is possible because there is always a chance mitch and jim somehow make a mega trade during the season to put us in title contention.... that is why hill got a short term deal so when the opportunity comes for a big trade you can just add hills salary to match the players cap figure....

That is why im shocked that everyone is dismissing the lakers from winning it all... there is always a chance this team exceeds expectations and also the mangement making trades to give us a chance for a playoff run.


There's always a chance these Lakers go 82-0 and then 16-0 to win it all. Anything is possible.

If you're actually truly shocked, then it's because you don't have a pulse on what people are actually saying.

No one is saying that it is impossible -- they're saying it is improbable. Unlikely.

For this team to pull off a mega trade that would get them to title contention ... a few things would have to occur.

1) Kobe would need to be healthy, near 100%
2) The team would need to be right near the middle of the playoff seeds (like a 4-6 seed or better) just prior to the trading deadline.
3) A mega trade scenario would have to be available (meaning, you need motivated sellers)

Certainly, having all of those things happen isn't impossible but they aren't likely. To be honest with you, I'm more shocked to know that you're actually "shocked" that people might say we won't be winning it this year.

Just curious. Who do you think will win the title this year? The Lakers?



Good luck with that.


I got the Spurs, maybe the Thunder sneak in and Chicago has a shot if Rose can stay healthy...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now.


I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that.



Completely agree. Kobe is where he is on the standings. Only in Kobe fans minds would anything change, but that's it.


While Kobe may be the goat, let's not pretend that if Lebron wins four more he won't pass Kobe. Only homers think that a player can't move up or down.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:36 am    Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:
deal wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now.


I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that.



Completely agree. Kobe is where he is on the standings. Only in Kobe fans minds would anything change, but that's it.


While Kobe may be the goat, let's not pretend that if Lebron wins four more he won't pass Kobe. Only homers think that a player can't move up or down.


The reason folks are saying Kobe's ranking won't change, is because of where he is in his career. Lebron's got a lot of years left to better or worsen his status among the greats.

At Kobe's stage of his career, it's essentially wrapped up at this point. Losing won't hurt his legacy and winning won't help it much either.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
deal wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now.


I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that.



Completely agree. Kobe is where he is on the standings. Only in Kobe fans minds would anything change, but that's it.


While Kobe may be the goat, let's not pretend that if Lebron wins four more he won't pass Kobe. Only homers think that a player can't move up or down.


The reason folks are saying Kobe's ranking won't change, is because of where he is in his career. Lebron's got a lot of years left to better or worsen his status among the greats.

At Kobe's stage of his career, it's essentially wrapped up at this point. Losing won't hurt his legacy and winning won't help it much either.


Winning a ring while leading the team would help it a little by matching MJ, and solidifying for some who are on the fence about how far up he is. Some would probably put him in the top 3 conversation who rank him between 5-10 now. It would evoke not only MJ, but Kareem too, remind people he had one more than Magic, etc. If I had to pointlessly quantify it, it might be a 10% bump in his overall rep and legacy in public and professional perception. 5% in mine, since I already have him way up there.

Too bad it is so unlikely.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
deal wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now.


I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that.



Completely agree. Kobe is where he is on the standings. Only in Kobe fans minds would anything change, but that's it.


While Kobe may be the goat, let's not pretend that if Lebron wins four more he won't pass Kobe. Only homers think that a player can't move up or down.


The reason folks are saying Kobe's ranking won't change, is because of where he is in his career. Lebron's got a lot of years left to better or worsen his status among the greats.

At Kobe's stage of his career, it's essentially wrapped up at this point. Losing won't hurt his legacy and winning won't help it much either.


Passing MJ in 3rd all time points is big. Winning a championship after a major Achilles injury would be huge...not saying that can even happen..but it would possibly be the greatest comeback in sports history. But it is so impossible with this team I think. It would be a big deal and a moral victory if we make the playoffs next season.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Kobe's rank is set. He isn't going up or down for anything that happens now.


I agree that, barring something truly astounding, the next two years will have little or no impact on Kobe's legacy, just as the Washington years had no impact on MJ's legacy. I expect that his consensus standing will erode over time, but no one has any control over that.



Completely agree. Kobe is where he is on the standings. Only in Kobe fans minds would anything change, but that's it.


The one thing that can change might be people's perception of him as a team mate
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:56 am    Post subject:

6 wont change anything but it does pad the cushion he has on LBJ, now if we're talking about 7 it will reopen the discussion, but knowing how polarized Kobe is people will twist the narrative. I ll take this year team for example if they win it all

Kobe - 27/5/5 (Media has a sudden case of amnesia, what Achilles? he has other injuries to play thru? Finals MVP, Finished 5th is regular season voting)
Nash - Former MVP 50/4/90 Knock down 3Pts daggers after dagger.
Lin - All Star point guard, second coming of Nash.
Boozer - All Star PF. 18/9.
W.Johnson - Lockdown Defensive Specialist, 3pt threats
Hill - Rodman like tenacity, All NBA defensive team.
N.Young - Sixth Man of the Year.
Randle - Phenom ROY, Lakers next superstar face of the franchise.
Henry/Kelly/Sacre - Solid contributors.

The media/pundits/haters will turn to something like this. They will never give Kobe a fair shake even with a 6 ring.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject:

1a, I don't even think Jordan in this prime could have won with this team against the stacked up mega teams of today.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject:

If the Lakers win a title I have Kobe top 5 all time. If they don't, I have him top 5 all time. I am not deluded enough to use the quality of his teammates to rank him. That is bizarre, using team success to rank individual players is one of the dumber things I see here.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If the Lakers win a title I have Kobe top 5 all time. If they don't, I have him top 5 all time. I am not deluded enough to use the quality of his teammates to rank him. That is bizarre, using team success to rank individual players is one of the dumber things I see here.


Are you saying if Kobe won no rings, you would still have him top 5?

I get that Individual success doesn't always translate to team success but there is only 5 players on the floor at a time. It's the game where the individual star can affect the outcome more than any other sport.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject:

Yes, I would have Kobe in the top 5 if he hadn't won any rings, he would still be the same player he has been. I have Karl Malone as one of the greatest PFs of all time (1 or 2 depending on where you put Duncan) and he won nothing. You do realize that this whole ring counting issue was introduced by Jordan and ESPN back in the day? Before that the number of rings weren't the way you ranked players. During Showtime people weren't saying that Kareem or Magic were better than someone else because of the number of rings they had. That came with the individualization of the game in the 90's by ESPN and David Stern. They saw the economic value of promoting individual players over teams.

So if you are much younger than me I can understand the ring argument. But if you are old school like me, you don't get caught up as much in that.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, I would have Kobe in the top 5 if he hadn't won any rings, he would still be the same player he has been. I have Karl Malone as one of the greatest PFs of all time (1 or 2 depending on where you put Duncan) and he won nothing. You do realize that this whole ring counting issue was introduced by Jordan and ESPN back in the day? Before that the number of rings weren't the way you ranked players. During Showtime people weren't saying that Kareem or Magic were better than someone else because of the number of rings they had. That came with the individualization of the game in the 90's by ESPN and David Stern. They saw the economic value of promoting individual players over teams.

So if you are much younger than me I can understand the ring argument. But if you are old school like me, you don't get caught up as much in that.


I can respect that, but I wouldn't consider Kobe the same player if he didn't win rings. I believe what makes Kobe, Kobe is that when the pressure is on him in the big moments, he becomes a diamond. While other lesser players crumble on the big stage. For example Karl Malone, he played on incredibly talented teams but when he needed to win he couldn't, Jordan just spanked his butt.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject:

Winning #6 on this team makes him the GOAT in my opinion.

Outside of him, you could argue that this would be the least talented team to win a ring in the last decade, and easily less talented than any of MJ's teams.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

E. PnP has, on numerous occasions shown why Kobe is better than MJ.


Well, that settles it.


Frankly, PnP knows more about basketball than almost anyone here.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject:

Moses wrote:
Winning #6 on this team makes him the GOAT in my opinion.

Outside of him, you could argue that this would be the least talented team to win a ring in the last decade, and easily less talented than any of MJ's teams.


If he leads this team into the playoffs his legend will grow.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, I would have Kobe in the top 5 if he hadn't won any rings, he would still be the same player he has been. I have Karl Malone as one of the greatest PFs of all time (1 or 2 depending on where you put Duncan) and he won nothing. You do realize that this whole ring counting issue was introduced by Jordan and ESPN back in the day? Before that the number of rings weren't the way you ranked players. During Showtime people weren't saying that Kareem or Magic were better than someone else because of the number of rings they had. That came with the individualization of the game in the 90's by ESPN and David Stern. They saw the economic value of promoting individual players over teams.

So if you are much younger than me I can understand the ring argument. But if you are old school like me, you don't get caught up as much in that.


Say what? The ring argument wasn't common back in the old days because Bill Russell had the market cornered. However, I can absolutely remember ring counting getting used in the Bird vs. Magic debate. I can also remember the ring argument being used (commonly) in the Wilt vs. Russell debate. No, this is not a creation of ESPN and David Stern. No, the promotion of individual players over teams was not a creation of the '90s.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject:

Actually the NBA promoted teams prior to Jordan, not individuals. We didn't see commercials promoting Kareem, we saw promos for Lakers vs. Celtics. You saying it was so doesn't make it so, there are many who say the same thing I have. Sorry you missed those conversations.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, I would have Kobe in the top 5 if he hadn't won any rings, he would still be the same player he has been. I have Karl Malone as one of the greatest PFs of all time (1 or 2 depending on where you put Duncan) and he won nothing. You do realize that this whole ring counting issue was introduced by Jordan and ESPN back in the day? Before that the number of rings weren't the way you ranked players. During Showtime people weren't saying that Kareem or Magic were better than someone else because of the number of rings they had. That came with the individualization of the game in the 90's by ESPN and David Stern. They saw the economic value of promoting individual players over teams.

So if you are much younger than me I can understand the ring argument. But if you are old school like me, you don't get caught up as much in that.


I can't stand you, but this is totally true. The NBA-on-NBC hype machine bears responsibility for this as well. Since Jordan, teams don't win championships anymore, players do, because that sells more sneakers and garners bigger ratings.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Actually the NBA promoted teams prior to Jordan, not individuals. We didn't see commercials promoting Kareem, we saw promos for Lakers vs. Celtics. You saying it was so doesn't make it so, there are many who say the same thing I have. Sorry you missed those conversations.


Nonsense. We saw commercials with Dr. J, Bird, Magic, and Barkley during that era. You didn't see commercials with Kareem because he lacks charisma, to put it politely. The Lakers and Celtics played twice per year and met in the Finals only three times during that era. You didn't see many promos for Lakers vs. Celtics.

I really don't know where you came up with this one. As far back as I can remember, the hype machine always focused on individual players, whether it be Wilt or MJ or Kobe.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:38 pm    Post subject:

This team isn't expected to do much, so winning a ring this year would absolutely put Kobe in my top 3.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.
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