Where does the Mamba rank if he gets a ring this year?
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Jeggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.

Let's consider the math on that, and your obvious bias in saying "standing near Kobe and Wilt"
Difference between Wilt's 100 & Kobe's 81 = 19 pts
Difference between Kobe's 81 and Jordan's 63 = 18 pts
Kobe's standing a little closer to MJ then he is to Wilt.
And, if you go look up the history of Wilt's game, he's in a whole different universe then Kobe's game considering the Knicks took herculean measures to keep the ball out of Wilt's hands and even went to the SloMo offense to cut down on his touches.

It was a not so subtle attempt by you to say "kobe & wilt" are on Mt Olympus together, and MJ's just a pretender. The rest of the world would consider Wilt to stand alone and Kobe & MJ standing considerably behind.
And, ppineda's got a good point too - that Celtic team was very very good, and MJ just took them apart. The Raptors team...not so much.
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ringThingDoUrThiNg
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.
I remember a lot of hoopla over 81. There were Also a ton of "better than mj" articles too. I even had an espn screen shot of one.
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Jeggs
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.

Let's consider the math on that, and your obvious bias in saying "standing near Kobe and Wilt"
Difference between Wilt's 100 & Kobe's 81 = 19 pts
Difference between Kobe's 81 and Jordan's 63 = 18 pts
Kobe's standing a little closer to MJ then he is to Wilt.
And, if you go look up the history of Wilt's game, he's in a whole different universe then Kobe's game considering the Knicks took herculean measures to keep the ball out of Wilt's hands and even went to the SloMo offense to cut down on his touches.

It was a not so subtle attempt by you to say "kobe & wilt" are on Mt Olympus together, and MJ's just a pretender. The rest of the world would consider Wilt to stand alone and Kobe & MJ standing considerably behind.
And, ppineda's got a good point too - that Celtic team was very very good, and MJ just took them apart. The Raptors team...not so much.


Actually I'm more impressed with Kobe's performance since there was way more possessions back in Wilt's day. Not only that we are talking about Kobe who is a guard, who gets the ball and works beyond the three point line half or most of the time really.

Also the Wilt 100 was a plan the team decided on doing before the game. Kobe's game just kind of turned into 81...getting into that zone...and just dominating.

I would say Wilt and Kobe are on Mt. Olympus when it comes to incredible scoring games. 100 is more than 81...but the 81 was done by a guard. Robinson the next guy in line I think got 71. So we have two centers, and one guard making up the top 3.

Yes I would separate Kobe and Wilt from the rest, including MJ.
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ppineda
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.
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moonriver24
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject:

Did MJ win the game scoring 63 in overtime?


Kobe would have been called a ballhog if he had done what MJ did.
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Telleris
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:06 am    Post subject:

moonriver24 wrote:
Did MJ win the game scoring 63 in overtime?


Kobe would have been called a ballhog if he had done what MJ did.


When his team mates where Shaq or Gasol and co, sure, when they were team scrub, not so much, and Jordan's team that year was really scrub. Jordan missed most of the year, but Chicago made the playoffs with 30 wins, 30!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:25 am    Post subject:

Telleris wrote:
moonriver24 wrote:
Did MJ win the game scoring 63 in overtime?


Kobe would have been called a ballhog if he had done what MJ did.


When his team mates where Shaq or Gasol and co, sure, when they were team scrub, not so much, and Jordan's team that year was really scrub. Jordan missed most of the year, but Chicago made the playoffs with 30 wins, 30!

Well, did Kobe led the scrubs of all time to 45 wins in the superloaded western conference with mind boggling performances? Would that be enough proof?
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Jeggs
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


Kobes 81 was better. Jordan played against many weak expansion teams and never did it. 81 is harder to achieve. And you act like Boston had the athleticism and length in their back court to guard Jordan. They simply did not. They were a great defensive team as a whole but truth be told they lacked athleticism.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


Kobes 81 was better. Jordan played against many weak expansion teams and never did it. 81 is harder to achieve. And you act like Boston had the athleticism and length in their back court to guard Jordan. They simply did not. They were a great defensive team as a whole but truth be told they lacked athleticism.


Good lord. You do realize that Kobe dropped 81 on the expansion Raptors (though 81 is one of the most impressive feats ever) and mj did that against bird parish and Mchale in their prime?
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Jeggs
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


Kobes 81 was better. Jordan played against many weak expansion teams and never did it. 81 is harder to achieve. And you act like Boston had the athleticism and length in their back court to guard Jordan. They simply did not. They were a great defensive team as a whole but truth be told they lacked athleticism.


Good lord. You do realize that Kobe dropped 81 on the expansion Raptors (though 81 is one of the most impressive feats ever) and mj did that against bird parish and Mchale in their prime?


My point was Jordan played many crappy expansion teams worse off than those raptors as well and never scored that high. He had many opportunities to do it.

Are we going to pretend that the Celtics had a tall lengthy backcourt to match Jordan's athleticism? Are we going to pretend that the primary defender, Dennis Johnson was some kind of long, lengthy athletic beast with length that could defend Michael? We going to pretend that Dennis Johnson was Shane Battier? People are using the excuse that the Celtics were a phenomenal defensive team which makes that game so "great."The big names on the Celtics were in their 30s already! Dennis Johnson was 6'4 in his 30s. Kobe would have murdered him.

When you really break down the context of that game, it wasn't that amazing. A prime Kobe would have done more damage to those old guys, especially a thirty-ish 6'4 Dennis Johnson who was neither long, quick or athletic.

Let's stop the Michael Jordan tall tales already and keep things into context.
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Telleris
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


Kobes 81 was better. Jordan played against many weak expansion teams and never did it. 81 is harder to achieve. And you act like Boston had the athleticism and length in their back court to guard Jordan. They simply did not. They were a great defensive team as a whole but truth be told they lacked athleticism.


Good lord. You do realize that Kobe dropped 81 on the expansion Raptors (though 81 is one of the most impressive feats ever) and mj did that against bird parish and Mchale in their prime?


My point was Jordan played many crappy expansion teams worse off than those raptors as well and never scored that high. He had many opportunities to do it.

Are we going to pretend that the Celtics had a tall lengthy backcourt to match Jordan's athleticism? Are we going to pretend that the primary defender, Dennis Johnson was some kind of long, lengthy athletic beast with length that could defend Michael? We going to pretend that Dennis Johnson was Shane Battier? People are using the excuse that the Celtics were a phenomenal defensive team which makes that game so "great."The big names on the Celtics were in their 30s already! Dennis Johnson was 6'4 in his 30s. Kobe would have murdered him.

When you really break down the context of that game, it wasn't that amazing. A prime Kobe would have done more damage to those old guys, especially a thirty-ish 6'4 Dennis Johnson who was neither long, quick or athletic.

Let's stop the Michael Jordan tall tales already and keep things into context.


When you go with "are we going to act like a 6 time all defensive first team player is as good as a 0 time", no one knows where to go with that, arguing that the team that won the nba title and was a better defensive team than offensive team was past its used by date, what the hell is that? It's so phenomenally ridiculous that where the hell do we go?

I get that you're young and just learning your reasoning abilities, and you'll go to extraordinary lengths to argue that Kobe > all, and to be honest I can't quite tell if you're arguing this to convince others or to reduce your own cognitive dissonance on the issue, but the only thing you're going to convince other people of with that line of reasoning is that things like your paul george thread aren't even close to just how absurd your claims can get.
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Treble Clef
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


That's why it's so silly to base arguments around single game performances. DRobs game was clearly forced and many accounts say that Wilts was too.

Kobe scored 81 in a game and Jordan never did. Jordan had a few 60+ point games in the playoffs and Kobe never has. Was Jordan incapable of scoring 81? Is Kobe incapable of scoring 60 in a playoff game? Id answer no to both questions.

An evaluation on a players career has to be based on their entire body of work, not single game peaks.
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cheetos82
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


That's why it's so silly to base arguments around single game performances. DRobs game was clearly forced and many accounts say that Wilts was too.

Kobe scored 81 in a game and Jordan never did. Jordan had a few 60+ point games in the playoffs and Kobe never has. Was Jordan incapable of scoring 81? Is Kobe incapable of scoring 60 in a playoff game? Id answer no to both questions.

An evaluation on a players career has to be based on their entire body of work, not single game peaks.


Wait, logic and common sense? You stop that right now. This is LG.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:07 am    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.

Let's consider the math on that, and your obvious bias in saying "standing near Kobe and Wilt"
Difference between Wilt's 100 & Kobe's 81 = 19 pts
Difference between Kobe's 81 and Jordan's 63 = 18 pts
Kobe's standing a little closer to MJ then he is to Wilt.
And, if you go look up the history of Wilt's game, he's in a whole different universe then Kobe's game considering the Knicks took herculean measures to keep the ball out of Wilt's hands and even went to the SloMo offense to cut down on his touches.

It was a not so subtle attempt by you to say "kobe & wilt" are on Mt Olympus together, and MJ's just a pretender. The rest of the world would consider Wilt to stand alone and Kobe & MJ standing considerably behind.
And, ppineda's got a good point too - that Celtic team was very very good, and MJ just took them apart. The Raptors team...not so much.



That's just ridiculous revisionist history spin there. Exactly what kind of measures did Philly take in making sure the 100 happened? Plenty. Look up the game accounts.

Kobe's 81 came with him just taking over a game that we were down big in and schooling them in eery facet of the game. Trying to make MJ the binge scorer that Kobe was is just ridiculous. MJ had two months in his career where he averaged 40 a game, Kobe had 4. MJ never scored 50 in 4 consecutive games, let alone 65, 50, 60 and 50, never outscored an entire team through three quarters let alone one that won 67 games. Kobe's range and handle set him apart from MJ and overcame MJ's better ability to finish at the basket.
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.

Let's consider the math on that, and your obvious bias in saying "standing near Kobe and Wilt"
Difference between Wilt's 100 & Kobe's 81 = 19 pts
Difference between Kobe's 81 and Jordan's 63 = 18 pts
Kobe's standing a little closer to MJ then he is to Wilt.
And, if you go look up the history of Wilt's game, he's in a whole different universe then Kobe's game considering the Knicks took herculean measures to keep the ball out of Wilt's hands and even went to the SloMo offense to cut down on his touches.

It was a not so subtle attempt by you to say "kobe & wilt" are on Mt Olympus together, and MJ's just a pretender. The rest of the world would consider Wilt to stand alone and Kobe & MJ standing considerably behind.
And, ppineda's got a good point too - that Celtic team was very very good, and MJ just took them apart. The Raptors team...not so much.



That's just ridiculous revisionist history spin there. Exactly what kind of measures did Philly take in making sure the 100 happened? Plenty. Look up the game accounts.

Kobe's 81 came with him just taking over a game that we were down big in and schooling them in eery facet of the game. Trying to make MJ the binge scorer that Kobe was is just ridiculous. MJ had two months in his career where he averaged 40 a game, Kobe had 4. MJ never scored 50 in 4 consecutive games, let alone 65, 50, 60 and 50, never outscored an entire team through three quarters let alone one that won 67 games. Kobe's range and handle set him apart from MJ and overcame MJ's better ability to finish at the basket.

1. Knicks went to slomo offense to cut down on the # of balls Philly could get. They also held the ball and simply let the shot clock expire without taking a shot, in order to cut down on Philly possessions.
2. Knicks essentially went to putting 3 guys on Wilt & 2 guys on passers, leaving the other 3 players completely open - and they did this to cut down on Wilt's touches
3. Knicks started fouling other players on Philly's team who did NOT even have the ball - to force them to take FT's and keep the ball out of Wilts hands.
4. Knicks fouled players out of bounds and before the clock started (ie. before inbounds pass) in order to make them shoot FT's and keep the ball out of Wilt's hands.

I could keep going, but that's 4 pretty good examples of what I said. No revisionist history there at all.
The only other case where you've seen opposing teams repeatedly (note the use of REPEATEDLY) fouling non-ball players has been Shaq, where they wanted to put him on the FT line because of his poor FT shooting.
yes, you've seen this done occasionally with other players - but not repeatedly, and not for a whole half of a basketball game to try to slow down one player

I watched the Raptors game. That Raptors teams sucked A**. Kobe had his teammates force feeding him the ball, just like Philly did with Wilt. And yes, they doubled & sometimes triple teamed Kobe, but they certainly did not take any steps even remotely like #1-4 above.

I also saw the Bulls/Celtics PLAYOFF game where Jordan scored 63. That Celtics team was about 4x as good as the suck A** Raptors team. And, MJ had the rest of his team involved in that game. MJ scored 63 out of 131 points, or 49% of the overall points (and in those early Bulls teams, it wasn't unusual for Jordan to regularly score 40% or so of that teams points - so 49% wasn't very far out of range).
Kobe scored 81 out of 122 points, or 2/3rd's of the overall points

In other words, MJ scored a little less than 50% of his team points in a playoff game against a very very good Celtics team who actually beat the Bulls in that game, all while keeping his teammates involved in the game.
Kobe scored 2/3rds of that games points, while pretty much freezing out the other players (mihm 12, Parker 13, Odom 8) And he did it against a 14-27 Raptors team that finished the season 27-55 with the 5th worst record in the entire NBA. Pretty far removed from the 1986 Celtics who WON...yes WON the NBA FINALS that year - beating the Twin Tower Houston team when Sampson was still really good. All b.s. earlier in this thread about how MJ's game was against a bad Celtics team it complete and total b.s. - they won the championship that year against very good teams. The Raptors finished 27-55. No comparison.

Yeah, Kobe was impressive. Just not quite as impressive as what MJ did considering both context and opponent, and even further from what Wilt did.
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Jeggs
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject:

Telleris wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
Jeggs wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.


I don't think so. Jordan played against many crappy expansion teams in the east and never got past 80. 81 is much harder. If it was easy there would be others that would be standing near Kobe and wilt.


Wait. Did you just change the subject from comparing MJ's 63 point playoff game against the best team at the time and Kobe's 81 vs Morris Peterson and the Craptors (see what I did there?) to why didn't MJ score 81 vs another team in the regular season? Playoff 63 > Regular season 81. Or using your logic, why hasn't Kobe scored 63 versus a team in the playoffs since it's so easy?

And BTW, didn't David Robinson score 71 or 73 to win the scoring title against Shaq one year. IIRC they stopped feeding him in the 4th after he scored enough to win the scoring title. He could have gotten to 81 if they kept doing it. No way DRob gets 73 in playoffs.. Showing you playoff scoring is much much harder than regular season scoring.


Kobes 81 was better. Jordan played against many weak expansion teams and never did it. 81 is harder to achieve. And you act like Boston had the athleticism and length in their back court to guard Jordan. They simply did not. They were a great defensive team as a whole but truth be told they lacked athleticism.


Good lord. You do realize that Kobe dropped 81 on the expansion Raptors (though 81 is one of the most impressive feats ever) and mj did that against bird parish and Mchale in their prime?


My point was Jordan played many crappy expansion teams worse off than those raptors as well and never scored that high. He had many opportunities to do it.

Are we going to pretend that the Celtics had a tall lengthy backcourt to match Jordan's athleticism? Are we going to pretend that the primary defender, Dennis Johnson was some kind of long, lengthy athletic beast with length that could defend Michael? We going to pretend that Dennis Johnson was Shane Battier? People are using the excuse that the Celtics were a phenomenal defensive team which makes that game so "great."The big names on the Celtics were in their 30s already! Dennis Johnson was 6'4 in his 30s. Kobe would have murdered him.

When you really break down the context of that game, it wasn't that amazing. A prime Kobe would have done more damage to those old guys, especially a thirty-ish 6'4 Dennis Johnson who was neither long, quick or athletic.

Let's stop the Michael Jordan tall tales already and keep things into context.


When you go with "are we going to act like a 6 time all defensive first team player is as good as a 0 time", no one knows where to go with that, arguing that the team that won the nba title and was a better defensive team than offensive team was past its used by date, what the hell is that? It's so phenomenally ridiculous that where the hell do we go?

I get that you're young and just learning your reasoning abilities, and you'll go to extraordinary lengths to argue that Kobe > all, and to be honest I can't quite tell if you're arguing this to convince others or to reduce your own cognitive dissonance on the issue, but the only thing you're going to convince other people of with that line of reasoning is that things like your paul george thread aren't even close to just how absurd your claims can get.


Your bias is clouding your judgment. Dennis Johnson was in his 30s and he was 6'4 probably 6'2 without shoes. He was slower and did not have the athleticism to stay with MJ. Let's not pretend Dennis Johnson was battier , Paul George...wing defenders that Kobe had to deal with. I'm not impressed with Michael because he didn't have the long athletic wing defenders that Kobe has dealt with. That's just a fact..wing defenders Kobe has dealt with our lengthier, faster, and more athletic than Jordan's time.Keep things into context and you'll get it. Watch the highlight Dennis is slow, short, and he is old.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject:

No use arguing too much. We each have our own opinions.

I would pick Kobe but it's not clear cut.

And disregard ESPN's lists. They aren't any more official or qualified in their opinions as any of us.
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Treble Clef
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject:

ringThingDoUrThiNg wrote:
ppineda wrote:
foshowtime wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Prime50 wrote:
If that happened with this team, he'd be #2 behind Jordan. Only because Jordan will never be taken out of his #1 spot for any reason.
True

they will put him tie with MJ for 3 years, then after that, he will drop to outside of top10...... sad but true,


As long as ESPN controls the sports debates, No one will ever be brought above MJ or even LBJ.
No matter what they do.

Kobe's 81 points was one of the most unbelievable things any player has ever accomplished. During that season, no other player I have EVER seen played as well as Kobe played. However, how much does that get mentioned on ESPN?

Imagine, if Lebron or MJ had gone for 81? They would be clamoring to have every arena in the NBA retire the number 81.


MJ's 63 vs prime Celtics in the playoffs >>>> Kobe's 81 vs Raptors in regular season

Anyone can look at number and see which is bigger. But if you examine the opponent, the teams, and the setting (playoffs). You can't honestly say that the 81 points was harder to accomplish.
I remember a lot of hoopla over 81. There were Also a ton of "better than mj" articles too. I even had an espn screen shot of one.


People have long forgotten how much time ESPN used to spend talking about how Kobe was on pace to shatter all of Jordan's records.
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