| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DaMuleRules wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | I don't see the problem with what he's saying. Coaches simply don't want to deal with locker room problems. And while he may be "spineless" for not wanting to deal with those kind of problems, I don't blame him because it'd be his ass on the line if something went wrong. The coach is always the first guy people blame for what happens in a locker room. You think he can watch what happens 24/7? This is not a Disney movie, these guys have families to take care of, livelihoods to maintain, not everybody is in a situation where they can make a statement.
Don't lie, if something did go wrong, you'd be looking at the coach for letting it happen.
It's not up to just the coach to embrace that kind of baggage. It would take the locker room player leadership, it'd take the general manager, it'd take the owner, it'd take the fans. Although it sucks, that's the reality of the situation. Something like Jonathan Martin happens and it's everybody's job that is on the line.
There's a certain hypocrisy at work here. If it goes sideways in St. Louis, who is going to have Fisher's back for not being "spineless"? He'll be thrown under the bus, then his carcass will be throw to the wolves. Like I said, it sucks, but Sam is certainly a locker room distraction. That's not being cruel, that's only recognizing reality, the NFL locker room is a vicious atmosphere, and everything will be under a microscope. No one's going to give Jeff Fisher any extra leeway in St. Louis because he has to deal with that on top of his other duties. So I wouldn't blame a coach for not wanting to bring that on himself. Some guys are wired differently. |
Well I do.
My father was fired from an influential and prestigious job just when his career was really taking off because he chose doing
One can excuse being a coward all one wants. Doesn't make the person any less of a coward.
Though apparently in this case we have a coward AND bigot. Apparently he has been an outspoken opponent of gay rights:
http://www.dennyburk.com/tony-dungy-on-pres-obamas-gay-marriage-stance/.
So yeah, I see a LOT of problems with what he is saying - and the message he is sending as someone who held a leadership position. I blame him plenty. |
Rules. where did dungy say you should be fired? he said HE wouldnt have wanted the headache that came along with it.
put it this way. lets say sam was a world class baller. do you think dungy wouldve said that anyway? NOPE. because he would've dealt with it. now dungy may have come right out and said due to his faith he doesnt condone that lifestyle. but in no way could he use his religion/belief system to stop sam from playing for his team. if he did that. that would be against his belief system. when we all know there are pro players on his team cheating on their wives. having pre-marital sex, smacking women around like its the thing to do.
So i highly doubt dungy would say that or even try to pull something like that if sam was a superstar player out of college. BUT because sam as of right now . is just another football player. (which is better then the rest of us sitting on our couches but not much better then the other non special players. it means dungy can then say why take the headache. now is that a coward move perhaps it is. but like someone above said. you guys would've fried dungy if the stuff would've gone down and he didnt catch everything(because he wouldnt have/religion or no legion). and something pops up. or that team starts to suck do to all the lockerroom issues and cameras around like they are in hard knocks. he would've been on the chopping block. cause no way could a team let go of the "FIRST" openly gay player. so coach would have to get clipped. not many would want to deal with that. thats his choice.
but dont equate that to someone being fired for being different.
the only time you should lose your job is if you work at a church and you start telling people there or on social media(public forum). that you are a part of a lifestyle that isnt something that lines up with the bible. Unless you are trying to change. if thats not what you're trying to do. dont try to be a gay guy/girl working at church or christian bookstore. dont even apply.
just like some christian should not apply for a job at a muslim bookstore. and if they find out. the muslim bookstore owner should have the right to fire the openly christian employee.
if you're at some normal place of business. what you do with your private life. should have zero bearings on your employment. as long as what you are doing isnt illegal. it shouldnt even be brought up.
_________________
LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| C M B wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | 24 wrote: | It is one of the great sadnesses of our time that African Americans have in significant numbers adopted an homophobic stance based on the same religion that used to preach their less than equal status.
I was especially struck by the comment that you don't achieve tolerance. By forcing it. Yes, yes you do. Dr king didn't ask southern whites to give black folk their rights. He demanded it. Forced it. Died for it. |
stop it 24.
sorry if you still refuse to get it. everyone does not have to AGREE with that lifestyle. period. stop trying to force someone's lifestyle down other people's throats. being black is not a lifestyle choice. choosing to romantically be with someone of the same sex is a lifestyle choice.
what happened to all of that "what ever happens behind closed doors is non of our business." talk? why do i even have to know you like guys or girls? unless i personally ask.
Just like a non believer doesnt have to agree with the bible. a bible believer doesnt have to agree with a person living a homosexual life style.
it goes both ways.
and lets get on the same religion that used to preach that blacks were less then. so you're blaming white racism on religion now. ha haa.. so... are you trying to tell me there are no racist white atheist running around the US? i bet we could find at least one. And what those white used out of the bible to attempt to make themselves feel good at night when they went to bed is between them and God. they took scriptures out of context. the bible itself did not condone that kind of slavery. slavery in biblical times had different meanings.
So sorry. what you are saying is incorrect. leave people alone about it. stop trying to force people to be down with that lifestyle. its their choice. we live in america right? we all have a choice when it comes to what lifestyles we agree or disagree with correct? if someone can say i dont like the clubbing lifestyle. thats on them. if someone says i dont like the drug addict lifestyle thats on them. if someone says i dont like the religious lifestyle. thats on them. just like someone can say i dont like the homosexual lifestyle. thats on them. there is no homophobia in that very idea. |
Good lord, you're an ape. |
mr name caller . lol. sorry dont agree, will never agree. so call all the names you want. wont change a thing over here.
_________________
LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Of course it won't change anything. You are hopelessly ignorant and bigoted, and what's more, you're proud of it.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Brandon98 wrote: | Even more disappointing, Dungy supported Vick getting a second chance back in the NFL after he was released from prison for the dogfighting incidents.
So apparently the player notorious for murdering helpless animals and gambling on it would be clear for a second chance on a Dungy coached team, but Michael Sam getting his first chance would be too much of a distraction.
 |
wait wait wait. what does this have to do with that? lol
did vick do his time? YEP
So question. are you supposed to crucify people forever for their past actions?
If so, what have you done in the past that no one knows about? would you like to also be punished forever for those things you've done in the past that were a wee bit unsavory?
if you're going to punish someone forever. then you might as well kill every criminal in jail now. dont let them out if you're going to keep them behind bars on the outside forever.
_________________
LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
postandpivot
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 36822
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 24 wrote: | | Of course it won't change anything. You are hopelessly ignorant and bigoted, and what's more, you're proud of it. |
again, more name calling. it wont change because i do not agree with that lifestyle. its that simple. that wlll never change. you guys can cry about it all day, all night. and it still wont change. sorry. you cant force people to agree with a lifestyle. what you can do is force people to not discriminate when it comes to schooling, employment, things of that nature.
you can hit people with very hard punishments when they physically harm people due to those people living a different lifestyle then there own.
But you cant force them to AGREE with it. So stop trying.
_________________
LAL4K3RS wrote: He(Kobe) is the white haired kung fu master that you realize is older than dirt but can still kick your arse when in a sitting position drinking a nice herbal tea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 24 wrote: | | Of course it won't change anything. You are hopelessly ignorant and bigoted, and what's more, you're proud of it. |
And he's still around despite being banned for it.
Now there is a lesson in tolerance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No offense intended pnp, but it is impossible to have this conversation with you on any rational level because you do not see this in rational terms. Your cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy is invisible to you, and visible to everyone else. Yet you think you are the one with the truth. Because you don't measure things by rational, empirical, translatable terms. You measure them by the gut of a guy with no perspective beyond a supremely narrow worldview dominated by race and religion, two of the greatest inhibitors of human discourse ever invented.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12231
Location: The Two One Three
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 24 wrote: | | No offense intended pnp, but it is impossible to have this conversation with you on any rational level because you do not see this in rational terms. Your cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy is invisible to you, and visible to everyone else. Yet you think you are the one with the truth. Because you don't measure things by rational, empirical, translatable terms. You measure them by the gut of a guy with no perspective beyond a supremely narrow worldview dominated by race and religion, two of the greatest inhibitors of human discourse ever invented. |
In other words, unicorns.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| postandpivot wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Of course it won't change anything. You are hopelessly ignorant and bigoted, and what's more, you're proud of it. |
again, more name calling. it wont change because i do not agree with that lifestyle. its that simple. that wlll never change. you guys can cry about it all day, all night. and it still wont change. sorry. you cant force people to agree with a lifestyle. what you can do is force people to not discriminate when it comes to schooling, employment, things of that nature.
you can hit people with very hard punishments when they physically harm people due to those people living a different lifestyle then there own.
But you cant force them to AGREE with it. So stop trying. |
It isn't name calling to call someone with bigoted views a bigot, any more than it is to call someone of above average height tall. Did you wake up and decide one day that women looked good to you? No, your hormones and internal programming did, because you are a heterosexual male. But you live in a world where allowing the other people's programming is different thn yours would cost you your manhood. You deny others their dignity because you lack fundamental confidence in your own. You need gays to be evil so that you can be a man. It is ironic that you are ultimately the sissy.
Sorry to be so harsh, but some things simply cannot stand, and bigotry is one. I would fight and die for your right to believe in a god I think is nonexistent. But not for your right to use http belief to deny the rights of others.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers_2000
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CBaller8
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 14876
Location: Reseda, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What's wrong with what he said? So he HAS to support the gay lifestyle? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brandon98
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 20351
Location: Are you a bad enough dude to read my posts?
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| postandpivot wrote: | | Brandon98 wrote: | Even more disappointing, Dungy supported Vick getting a second chance back in the NFL after he was released from prison for the dogfighting incidents.
So apparently the player notorious for murdering helpless animals and gambling on it would be clear for a second chance on a Dungy coached team, but Michael Sam getting his first chance would be too much of a distraction.
|
wait wait wait. what does this have to do with that? lol
did vick do his time? YEP
So question. are you supposed to crucify people forever for their past actions?
If so, what have you done in the past that no one knows about? would you like to also be punished forever for those things you've done in the past that were a wee bit unsavory?
if you're going to punish someone forever. then you might as well kill every criminal in jail now. dont let them out if you're going to keep them behind bars on the outside forever. |
Because he's claiming Sam is a distraction in the locker room and drafting him would upset people, yet he'd be fine with signing Vick after the dog-murdering incidents despite the fact Philadelphia signing him caused the exact same thing; It created a huge distraction and upset a ton of people.
Has nothing to do with the distraction in the locker room.
Only difference with Sam is that Dungy is big in his religious community, received his share of awards, etc., and he'd prefer not giving Sam his opportunity if it meant him having to face criticism from that community. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CBaller8 wrote: | | What's wrong with what he said? So he HAS to support the gay lifestyle? |
He doesn't HAVE to like gay people anymore than Jimbo Billy Bob Inbred Hillbilly has to like black people.
The problem arises when it comes to denying equal opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lowest Merion
Retired
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 10720
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| USCandLakers wrote: | | I don't see the problem with what he's saying. |
Of course you don't. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CBaller8 wrote: | | What's wrong with what he said? So he HAS to support the gay lifestyle? |
He doesn't have to supprt anyting, but as a person in power of hiring employees, (the premise of the question posed) he is admitting to basing his hiring decision on something other than Sam's ability to perform the job. Whether the reason is their gender, race, religion or sexual orientation has nothing to do with the fact that this form of discrimination is simply wrong, illiegal, and morally reprehensible. Most disappointing is that the justification for his reasoning is every bit as flawed as those who did not want the distraction of a racially integrated football league.
And it is all but impossible to not notice the correlation between an intolerance of homosexuality and religious beliefs espousing the same. What a shame. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
C M B
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 19866
Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CBaller8 wrote: | | What's wrong with what he said? So he HAS to support the gay lifestyle? |
Of course he does. He supports the dog-killing lifestyle, the rape lifestyle, and the regular heterosexual/criminal lifestyle. If you've already opened the door to these "lifestyles", why not leave the back door open?
_________________
http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/ 
| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
|
Last edited by C M B on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lowest Merion
Retired
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 10720
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| postandpivot wrote: | | lifestyle |
The ignorance and bigotry marches on ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| postandpivot wrote: | | what you can do is force people to not discriminate when it comes to schooling, employment, things of that nature. |
Exactly the point. We are against Dungy saying that he would discriminate against Sam when it comes to employment.
So nice to finally agree! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakers_2000 wrote: | | Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
Oddly, Tim tebow continued to have a football job long after it was known he didn't have the talent precisely because he appealed to the demographic that hates/fears Sam. And for the record, I would totally fight for tebow's right to not be discriminated against.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
C M B
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 19866
Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakers_2000 wrote: | | Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
False equivalency...a dim one.
_________________
http://chickhearn.ytmnd.com/
| Sister Golden Hair wrote: | LAMAR ODOM is an anagram for ... DOOM ALARM
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lowest Merion wrote: | | postandpivot wrote: | | lifestyle |
The ignorance and bigotry marches on ... |
What a great word to highlight the ignorant bigotry while the eluding the comprehension of the bigots as to why it is hateful, insulting and discriminatory. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakers_2000 wrote: | | Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
'Huh? Tebow was given many opportunities and more than the benefit of the doubt. He is not an NFL quarterback because of his performance and skillset. Dungy is saying that even of Sam does perform and have the skillset he still wouldn't hire him. Poor example. A better one might be Warren Moon who had to fight his way to become an NFL quarterback despite obstacles that had nothing to do with his abilities. That same bigoted attitude against a "black quarterback" is no different than the discrimination Sam is facing.
Take it all away and judge a player on how he plays. How did everyone not learn that by the time they were in kindergarten? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| C M B wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | | Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
False equivalency...a dim one. |
So dim it needs to be enlightened, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilt
LG Contributor
Joined: 29 Dec 2002
Posts: 13733
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | | Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
'Huh? Tebow was given many opportunities and more than the benefit of the doubt. He is not an NFL quarterback because of his performance and skillset. Dungy is saying that even of Sam does perform and have the skillset he still wouldn't hire him. Poor example. A better one might be Warren Moon who had to fight his way to become an NFL quarterback despite obstacles that had nothing to do with his abilities. That same bigoted attitude against a "black quarterback" is no different than the discrimination Sam is facing.
Take it all away and judge a player on how he plays. How did everyone not learn that by the time they were in kindergarten? |
If it turns out that Sam will keep getting opportunities with multiple teams due to the NFL not wanting bad publicity, then I think that should be pointed out as well. But that remains to be seen. As it stands, both Tebow and Sam were given the chance to compete. The former turned out to be not good enough. As for the latter, Dungy automatically disqualified him and it had nothing to do with his abilities. So I think L2000's statement should be addressed to Tony Dungy, not us.
_________________
¡Hala Madrid! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52663
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Lakers_2000 wrote: | | Unless you're all also going to criticize teams for not signing Tim Tebow because of the so-called "distraction" he posed, then spare me the self-righteous lectures about tolerance. |
False equivalency...a dim one. |
So dim it needs to be enlightened, |
Unfortunately I wouldn't expect any miracles. Such dimness derives from the inability or unwillingness to be enlightened. There's even a term for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
