Disappointing News: Tony Dungy is a Spineless Tool
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Drifts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
Tark the Shark wrote:
Wasn't Dungy among the biggest Tebow hype mongers in the media?



Not that I recall.

That being said people didn't want to deal with his media circus anymore than Michael Sam's

Hard to believe but there are teams that don't want to deal with this and they aren't bigots for it either.

I don't really care about Dungy's stance on this issue or anyone else's for that matter but he has a point we're talking about a player that was drafted in the 7th round who hasn't even played an NFL game yet. We wouldn't be talking about him or making him being drafted at all a focal point if he wasn't openly gay.

Actually he was a big Tebow advocate, implying that his faith is part of what made him a winner and compared his ability to lead a team to victory despite modest stats to the great Bill Russell.


are you implying that faith has nothing to do with being a winner?

I don't think the winner of a football game is decided by the amount of faith tallied up by each team. Do you?


in the same way that a football game is not decided by the amount of interceptions tallied up by each team... but you see, it matters.


Interceptions actually have an impact on the game, faith does not. Faith may give someone some personal boost of morale, but it has no more impact on the outcome the game than that of a player who doesn't share that faith.


boost of morale has a strong impact on the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:27 am    Post subject:

ComputerBlue wrote:
jodeke wrote:
...IA homosexuality is not a lifestyle. I don't know if it's a choice or one is born that way. What do you call it? How do you feel?


Research posted below shows a relationship between childhood molestation and sexual orientation later in life. For these research individuals, homosexuality was not something they were born with, but rather a result of their environment.

Quote:
In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. - Tomeo, M. E., Templer, D. L., Anderson, S., & Kotler, D. (2001). Comparative data of childhood adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 30, 535–541.


What about the 54% of men and 78% of women who were not molested? Why are they gay?
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:

Where does it say he's anti gay. It says, as I've stated in past posts, he's against gay marriage.


You don't get any more anti-gay than denying a basic right like marriage.

As if someone said that black people shouldn't be allowed to marry you wouldn't find them racist.

You're not considering his being against gay marriage only. Tony's thinking family and his way of thinking doesn't allow same sex marriage. He hasn't said he's against man having a man partner or a woman having a woman partner at least I haven't seen it. He's against men marrying men and women marrying women.

Your last sentence makes no sense to me. You're comparing race to a lifestyle. Being a racist is obvious, being against gay marriage is a choice.


He's advocating lesser rights for gays. That is inherently anti-gay. There is no wiggle room for semantics.

And homosexuality is not a "lifestyle".

He's against gay marriage, he's said as much. You say that's anti gay, Tony says he's not anti anything so he obviously doesn't feel as you do.

You've assessed his thoughts and formed an opinion, I haven't seen anything definitive. If you've formed an opinion it's formed by speculation.


I don't "say" that is anti-gay. It is anti-gay. When you deny a group of people a basic right like marriage, that is the definition of being anti-that group. All the dancing around the whole "I say/He says" nonsense doesn't change that. It's not opinion. It's fact. "I don't have anything against you, but you can't be allowed to do the same things I'm allowed to" doesn't fly. Not one tiny little bit no matter how much you would like to protest otherwise.

Quote:
I say he's against gay marriage by his own admission. How he feels about gay people is not something I see clearly him admitting or saying.

IA homosexuality is not a lifestyle. I don't know if it's a choice or one is born that way. What do you call it? How do you feel?


So tell us about the day you chose to be a straight person. Was it an easy decision? Did you have any internal debate about it? Or did you just say to yourself one morning, "You know what, I think I'll choose that straight thing."?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject:

Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:48 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Quote:
I don't "say" that is anti-gay. It is anti-gay. When you deny a group of people a basic right like marriage, that is the definition of being anti-that group. All the dancing around the whole "I say/He says" nonsense doesn't change that. It's not opinion. It's fact. "I don't have anything against you, but you can't be allowed to do the same things I'm allowed to" doesn't fly. Not one tiny little bit no matter how much you would like to protest otherwise.

That's what you say, I don't agree. If I say someone is a pompous ass does that make him/her one? Tony said he's not anti anything, you say he is. I side with Tony.
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So tell us about the day you chose to be a straight person. Was it an easy decision? Did you have any internal debate about it? Or did you just say to yourself one morning, "You know what, I think I'll choose that straight thing."?
I don't think you're asking because you really want an answer because there's no way to give a creditable one so I'll ignore that portion of your post.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:

Where does it say he's anti gay. It says, as I've stated in past posts, he's against gay marriage.


You don't get any more anti-gay than denying a basic right like marriage.

As if someone said that black people shouldn't be allowed to marry you wouldn't find them racist.

You're not considering his being against gay marriage only. Tony's thinking family and his way of thinking doesn't allow same sex marriage. He hasn't said he's against man having a man partner or a woman having a woman partner at least I haven't seen it. He's against men marrying men and women marrying women.

Your last sentence makes no sense to me. You're comparing race to a lifestyle. Being a racist is obvious, being against gay marriage is a choice.


He's advocating lesser rights for gays. That is inherently anti-gay. There is no wiggle room for semantics.

And homosexuality is not a "lifestyle".

He's against gay marriage, he's said as much. You say that's anti gay, Tony says he's not anti anything so he obviously doesn't feel as you do.

You've assessed his thoughts and formed an opinion, I haven't seen anything definitive. If you've formed an opinion it's formed by speculation.


I don't "say" that is anti-gay. It is anti-gay. When you deny a group of people a basic right like marriage, that is the definition of being anti-that group. All the dancing around the whole "I say/He says" nonsense doesn't change that. It's not opinion. It's fact. "I don't have anything against you, but you can't be allowed to do the same things I'm allowed to" doesn't fly. Not one tiny little bit no matter how much you would like to protest otherwise.

Quote:
I say he's against gay marriage by his own admission. How he feels about gay people is not something I see clearly him admitting or saying.

IA homosexuality is not a lifestyle. I don't know if it's a choice or one is born that way. What do you call it? How do you feel?


So tell us about the day you chose to be a straight person. Was it an easy decision? Did you have any internal debate about it? Or did you just say to yourself one morning, "You know what, I think I'll choose that straight thing."?


Marriage isn't a right unless there was a recent constitutional amendment I'm not aware of.

People seem to confuse those opposed to gay marriage with those opposed to gay unions.

A lot of people (including Dungy) are not opposed to the idea of people unionizing. They just don't want the term "marriage" being applied to a union that involves anything other than a man or woman. It's just a lame religious thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Same reason why extremist (bleep) use their religions to justify what they do.

Little hint. If everyone on the planet were straight and their were no religions, NOTHING would be any different than it is now. Common denominator to ALL the worlds social problems are the Human Being.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:

Quote:
I don't "say" that is anti-gay. It is anti-gay. When you deny a group of people a basic right like marriage, that is the definition of being anti-that group. All the dancing around the whole "I say/He says" nonsense doesn't change that. It's not opinion. It's fact. "I don't have anything against you, but you can't be allowed to do the same things I'm allowed to" doesn't fly. Not one tiny little bit no matter how much you would like to protest otherwise.

That's what you say, I don't agree. If I say someone is a pompous ass does that make him/her one? Tony said he's not anti anything, you say he is. I side with Tony.


Side with whomever you wish. But it doesn't change the fact that once you deny something like the ability to marry to one group of people you have identified yourself as being against that group of people. It's not a vague concept that one can accept or not accept.

Quote:
So tell us about the day you chose to be a straight person. Was it an easy decision? Did you have any internal debate about it? Or did you just say to yourself one morning, "You know what, I think I'll choose that straight thing."?
I don't think you're asking because you really want an answer because there's no way to give a creditable one so I'll ignore that portion of your post.[/quote]

You said you didn't know if sexual orientation was a choice or not and asked my thoughts. I didn't just throw that out there as your convenient editing attempts to imply.

In answer to your question, I posed my answer in the form of a question. If sexual orientation was a choice, at some point you would have had a moment where you made that choice. If you didn't have that moment, then clearly it isn't a matter of choice, but something that is innate.
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JerryMagicKobe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


I already know that YOU know, Wilt.
I'm trying to back other people into the corner of religion and ignorance.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
ComputerBlue wrote:
jodeke wrote:
...IA homosexuality is not a lifestyle. I don't know if it's a choice or one is born that way. What do you call it? How do you feel?


Research posted below shows a relationship between childhood molestation and sexual orientation later in life. For these research individuals, homosexuality was not something they were born with, but rather a result of their environment.

Quote:
In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. - Tomeo, M. E., Templer, D. L., Anderson, S., & Kotler, D. (2001). Comparative data of childhood adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 30, 535–541.


What about the 54% of men and 78% of women who were not molested? Why are they gay?


I am sure there are many different reasons - but they are just that - reasons.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject:

ComputerBlue wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
ComputerBlue wrote:
jodeke wrote:
...IA homosexuality is not a lifestyle. I don't know if it's a choice or one is born that way. What do you call it? How do you feel?


Research posted below shows a relationship between childhood molestation and sexual orientation later in life. For these research individuals, homosexuality was not something they were born with, but rather a result of their environment.

Quote:
In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. - Tomeo, M. E., Templer, D. L., Anderson, S., & Kotler, D. (2001). Comparative data of childhood adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 30, 535–541.


What about the 54% of men and 78% of women who were not molested? Why are they gay?


I am sure there are many different reasons - but they are just that - reasons.


Or maybe one group just reports these incidences more than the other.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject:

ComputerBlue wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
ComputerBlue wrote:
jodeke wrote:
...IA homosexuality is not a lifestyle. I don't know if it's a choice or one is born that way. What do you call it? How do you feel?


Research posted below shows a relationship between childhood molestation and sexual orientation later in life. For these research individuals, homosexuality was not something they were born with, but rather a result of their environment.

Quote:
In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. - Tomeo, M. E., Templer, D. L., Anderson, S., & Kotler, D. (2001). Comparative data of childhood adolescence molestation in heterosexual and homosexual persons. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 30, 535–541.


What about the 54% of men and 78% of women who were not molested? Why are they gay?


I am sure there are many different reasons - but they are just that - reasons.

Do you feel the same way about girls who are with other girls, or is it the gay male thing that is upsetting?


Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Drifts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject:

[quote="DaMuleRules"]
jodeke wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:

Quote:
I don't "say" that is anti-gay. It is anti-gay. When you deny a group of people a basic right like marriage, that is the definition of being anti-that group. All the dancing around the whole "I say/He says" nonsense doesn't change that. It's not opinion. It's fact. "I don't have anything against you, but you can't be allowed to do the same things I'm allowed to" doesn't fly. Not one tiny little bit no matter how much you would like to protest otherwise.

That's what you say, I don't agree. If I say someone is a pompous ass does that make him/her one? Tony said he's not anti anything, you say he is. I side with Tony.


Side with whomever you wish. But it doesn't change the fact that once you deny something like the ability to marry to one group of people you have identified yourself as being against that group of people. It's not a vague concept that one can accept or not accept.

Quote:
So tell us about the day you chose to be a straight person. Was it an easy decision? Did you have any internal debate about it? Or did you just say to yourself one morning, "You know what, I think I'll choose that straight thing."?
I don't think you're asking because you really want an answer because there's no way to give a creditable one so I'll ignore that portion of your post.

Quote:
You said you didn't know if sexual orientation was a choice or not and asked my thoughts. I didn't just throw that out there as your convenient editing attempts to imply.

In answer to your question, I posed my answer in the form of a question. If sexual orientation was a choice, at some point you would have had a moment where you made that choice. If you didn't have that moment, then clearly it isn't a matter of choice, but something that is innate
.
I don't know and have only read opinions. Some say it's innate some say it's learned, I don't know. Choosing from the two I'd side more with innate but because that's where I side doen't make it true.

Concerning my "convenient editing attempts" I reread my post and sometimes find I haven't made my self clear thus the edit. When I make the edit use it to respond please, it's for clarification. They're usually posted before you respond.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?

Yes.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
Tark the Shark wrote:
Wasn't Dungy among the biggest Tebow hype mongers in the media?



Not that I recall.

That being said people didn't want to deal with his media circus anymore than Michael Sam's

Hard to believe but there are teams that don't want to deal with this and they aren't bigots for it either.

I don't really care about Dungy's stance on this issue or anyone else's for that matter but he has a point we're talking about a player that was drafted in the 7th round who hasn't even played an NFL game yet. We wouldn't be talking about him or making him being drafted at all a focal point if he wasn't openly gay.

Actually he was a big Tebow advocate, implying that his faith is part of what made him a winner and compared his ability to lead a team to victory despite modest stats to the great Bill Russell.


are you implying that faith has nothing to do with being a winner?

I don't think the winner of a football game is decided by the amount of faith tallied up by each team. Do you?


in the same way that a football game is not decided by the amount of interceptions tallied up by each team... but you see, it matters.


Interceptions actually have an impact on the game, faith does not. Faith may give someone some personal boost of morale, but it has no more impact on the outcome the game than that of a player who doesn't share that faith.


boost of morale has a strong impact on the game.


That boost of morale is not dependent on faith.
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Drifts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?

Yes.


how do we explain a lot of non-religious people who are well-informed and educated yet remain homophobic to the core?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Drifts wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
Tark the Shark wrote:
Wasn't Dungy among the biggest Tebow hype mongers in the media?



Not that I recall.

That being said people didn't want to deal with his media circus anymore than Michael Sam's

Hard to believe but there are teams that don't want to deal with this and they aren't bigots for it either.

I don't really care about Dungy's stance on this issue or anyone else's for that matter but he has a point we're talking about a player that was drafted in the 7th round who hasn't even played an NFL game yet. We wouldn't be talking about him or making him being drafted at all a focal point if he wasn't openly gay.

Actually he was a big Tebow advocate, implying that his faith is part of what made him a winner and compared his ability to lead a team to victory despite modest stats to the great Bill Russell.


are you implying that faith has nothing to do with being a winner?

I don't think the winner of a football game is decided by the amount of faith tallied up by each team. Do you?


in the same way that a football game is not decided by the amount of interceptions tallied up by each team... but you see, it matters.


Interceptions actually have an impact on the game, faith does not. Faith may give someone some personal boost of morale, but it has no more impact on the outcome the game than that of a player who doesn't share that faith.


boost of morale has a strong impact on the game.


That boost of morale is not dependent on faith.


of course. but it happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?


It's not only matter of education (though it can help), but getting to know and meeting people and recognizing that homosexuals aren't some threat to society. It doesn't happen overnight, but it happens. That's how our society in the United States has gradually accepted homosexuals. Of course, the ones that haven't tend to be religious/conservative because they let a book written by Bronze Age nomads do the thinking for them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:22 am    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?

Yes.


how do we explain a lot of non-religious people who are well-informed and educated yet remain homophobic to the core?

The same way someone can earn an A in math and a D in spelling. Intelligence isn't a blanket of knowledge evenly distributed across all subjects. In addition, things taught to us in childhood become so engrained by adulthood that they are all but impossible to counter with facts - personality, emotions, reactions. That's why it is so rare for a person to change religions from that which they were exposed to as a child. Why question something wih logic and reason when they didn't choose their religion with logic and reason to begin with.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?


It's not only matter of education (though it can help), but getting to know and meeting people and recognizing that homosexuals aren't some threat to society. It doesn't happen overnight, but it happens. That's how our society in the United States has gradually accepted homosexuals. Of course, the ones that haven't tend to be religious/conservative because they let a book written by Bronze Age nomads do the thinking for them.


I don't think it solely lies in the "corners" of ignorance and religion... as there are a lot of people who are well informed yet homophobic and there are a lot of gay people who are very very religious... I think its more of a nurture thing... and culture perhaps.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?

Yes.


how do we explain a lot of non-religious people who are well-informed and educated yet remain homophobic to the core?

The same way someone can earn an A in math and a D in spelling. Intelligence isn't a blanket of knowledge evenly distributed across all subjects. In addition, things taught to us in childhood become so engrained by adulthood that they are all but impossible to counter with facts - personality, emotions, reactions. That's why it is so rare for a person to change religions from that which they were exposed to as a child. Why question something wih logic and reason when they didn't choose their religion with logic and reason to begin with.


Agree with some of this but where did you read that it is rare for a person to change their religions?

I thought I had read that around 50% of Americans have changed their religion at least once.
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:11 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?

Yes.


how do we explain a lot of non-religious people who are well-informed and educated yet remain homophobic to the core?

The same way someone can earn an A in math and a D in spelling. Intelligence isn't a blanket of knowledge evenly distributed across all subjects. In addition, things taught to us in childhood become so engrained by adulthood that they are all but impossible to counter with facts - personality, emotions, reactions. That's why it is so rare for a person to change religions from that which they were exposed to as a child. Why question something wih logic and reason when they didn't choose their religion with logic and reason to begin with.


Agree with some of this but where did you read that it is rare for a person to change their religions?

I thought I had read that around 50% of Americans have changed their religion at least once.


It's even more rare for someone to change their sexual orientation.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Drifts wrote:
Wilt wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why someone would be anti-gay or anti-gay rights (such as marriage) without involving religious beliefs?


Ignorance.

I know plenty of non-religious people in the Balkans (which is where I'm from) that are homophobic to the core. They just don't know any better.


so, if they are educated enough they'd stop being homophobic?

Yes.


how do we explain a lot of non-religious people who are well-informed and educated yet remain homophobic to the core?

The same way someone can earn an A in math and a D in spelling. Intelligence isn't a blanket of knowledge evenly distributed across all subjects. In addition, things taught to us in childhood become so engrained by adulthood that they are all but impossible to counter with facts - personality, emotions, reactions. That's why it is so rare for a person to change religions from that which they were exposed to as a child. Why question something wih logic and reason when they didn't choose their religion with logic and reason to begin with.


Agree with some of this but where did you read that it is rare for a person to change their religions?

I thought I had read that around 50% of Americans have changed their religion at least once.


It's even more rare for someone to change their sexual orientation.


Even more rare? Changing religions is commonplace. Not a rarity.
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