How is history different if some events changed (i.e. Shaq etc.)?
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LawyerShawn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: How is history different if some events changed (i.e. Shaq etc.)?

It is interesting to see how things may have changed or played out differently if some events took or didn't take place. Playing revisionist, how many championships could the Lakers have realistically won if history was changed?

If Shaq stayed with the Lakers?
If Bynum and Ariza aren't injured in 08?
If Lakers draft Granger instead of Bynum?
If Kobe left?
If Lakers traded for Boozer?
If Lakers traded Kobe for Kidd and Marion?
If Lakers kept Eddie Jones and Van Exel?
If Shaq never comes?
If Chris Paul was never vetoed?
If Dwight stayed a Laker?

etc.

Create your own alternate universe Laker history!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject:

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If Shaq stayed with the Lakers?


If this causes Kobe to leave I think we might not win another title and the rebuild would have been started a long time ago. Shaq was not the same a couple years later if my memory serves me right.

Quote:
If Bynum and Ariza aren't injured in 08?


I have always wondered if Bynum never got injured, would we have gotten Pau? It's easy to say we didn't give up Bynum so we would still get him but when Bynum was healthy, he was showing signs of stardom. Would the Grizz hold out on the trade now because they want Bynum.

Quote:
If Lakers draft Granger instead of Bynum?


I wouldn't want to do this but I think we would have been fine, assuming we still get Pau and keep Granger.

Quote:
If Kobe left?


This means Shaq stayed and I do not think we win another title.

Quote:
If Lakers traded for Boozer?


Leads to no Pau and I do not think Kobe an Boozer would have won a title.

Quote:
If Lakers traded Kobe for Kidd and Marion?


On paper it sounds nice but I do not think this team would have won the west.

Quote:
If Lakers kept Eddie Jones and Van Exel?


I think we would have lost them down the line anyway because of cap concerns but that would have been nice along with the development of Kobe.

Quote:
If Shaq never comes?


For years we keep tryingto find the 2nd star to pair with Kobe.

Quote:
If Chris Paul was never vetoed?


We have CP3/Kobe/Dwight right now and who knows, maybe Kobe doesn't get injured because he don't have to will his team into the playoffs. Also feel Dwight stays.

Quote:
If Dwight stayed a Laker?


We don't have Randle but someone in the 12 or 13 spot. We are talking about a healthy Kobe paired with a healthy Dwight combo in the 14-15 season who just came off a 22 an 13 season.
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ReaListik
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject:

Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.

Lakers still lose in 2008 Boston was just better.

May not have gotten to the Finals if Granger was here instead of Bynum

Kobe leaving means LA is screwed for 15 years

We will find out now with Boozer is legit or not

Lakers don't win without Shaq coming here. I think if Jones and Van Exel stayed that team would still win but the Bulls who came with Phil to LA were a major part of why we 3peated.

Chris Paul would have definitely attracted free agents to come to the Lakers. I think he could easily play with Kobe and handle his personality. That's the trade I wish happened

Dwight staying would mean more lame attempts at comedic ghost hunter commercials but that's pretty much it
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject:

if they hired Phil instead of D'Antoni
if they never traded Vlade for Kobe
if Magic never got HIV
if Magic didn't get hurt in 1989 finals
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.

Lakers still lose in 2008 Boston was just better.

May not have gotten to the Finals if Granger was here instead of Bynum

Kobe leaving means LA is screwed for 15 years

We will find out now with Boozer is legit or not

Lakers don't win without Shaq coming here. I think if Jones and Van Exel stayed that team would still win but the Bulls who came with Phil to LA were a major part of why we 3peated.

Chris Paul would have definitely attracted free agents to come to the Lakers. I think he could easily play with Kobe and handle his personality. That's the trade I wish happened

Dwight staying would mean more lame attempts at comedic ghost hunter commercials but that's pretty much it
i agree with a lot here. BUt a healthy ariza + a healthy bynum in 08 is all we needed to win that series. OR of course the refs to not be in the pocket of the Celtics. either one of those scenarios = no rings for kg and pp. and kobe sitting on 6 right now.
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postandpivot
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.

Lakers still lose in 2008 Boston was just better.

May not have gotten to the Finals if Granger was here instead of Bynum

Kobe leaving means LA is screwed for 15 years

We will find out now with Boozer is legit or not

Lakers don't win without Shaq coming here. I think if Jones and Van Exel stayed that team would still win but the Bulls who came with Phil to LA were a major part of why we 3peated.

Chris Paul would have definitely attracted free agents to come to the Lakers. I think he could easily play with Kobe and handle his personality. That's the trade I wish happened

Dwight staying would mean more lame attempts at comedic ghost hunter commercials but that's pretty much it
i agree with a lot here. BUt a healthy ariza + a healthy bynum in 08 is all we needed to win that series. OR of course the refs to not be in the pocket of the Celtics. either one of those scenarios = no rings for kg and pp. and kobe sitting on 6 right now.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject:

If Artest was never signed and replaced by Ariza and Jack, I think the Lakers win in 2010 and 2011.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.


I think 2004 is the only one that was impacted by their beefs. However, it was pretty much moot due to Malone's injury. That was game over. You can't have Slava against Sheed. Amazing when you think about it that they swept a team like the Spurs after an 0-2 start. They fell apart just like that within one series, just showing how fragile their bonds were overall. Payton was a negative influence as usual. Kobe had his worst series. Phil and Kobe had differences themselves. If they had actually pulled it off (say Malone was healthy), it would've been almost icky compared to their other championships. A team that fractured and mercenary, coach included, compared to the feel-good/family teams that have won a dozen titles. That was the year where they were all a bunch of asses, they lost their hunger to win another, imo. They didn't come anywhere near the collective focus they had in 2000 and 2001. I think there's something to that 4 year window. It's very difficult for any team to care and fight for that long. Even Mike skipped out partly because he didn't want to deal with another run, although he portrays it as not needing to prove anything more (right...)

BUT...I don't think they win more than 3 even if both of them loved each other. They got beat talentwise in 2003 by SA. By 2004, Shaq's foot/toe was an issue as was his conditioning. By 2005, it would've been the same situation they had in 2003, with little to no reliable support. Probably would've been even worse than 2003. Shaq and Kobe's contracts became what diminished their winning power once Shaq was no longer in his absolute prime. They wouldn't win a title with that dreck that Kobe was working with in 2005-06 (and we know Kobe was so miffed he didn't even wanna socialize with them). It was a miracle how they got past Sacto in 2002 and that was almost completely due to both of them being way too dominant.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject:

These kinds of games are silly. What-if scenarios only ever turn out better than reality.

Why not just say what if we won every chip regardless of roster make up. Done!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If Artest was never signed and replaced by Ariza and Jack, I think the Lakers win in 2010 and 2011.


but we did win in 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject:

The biggest what if is what would've happened if Stern didn't cockblock the CP3 trade. If we had traded Bynum for a good final piece other than Howard, maybe Phil would've returned as coach and we would've won another ring or two.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject:

If the Celtics declared bankruptcy....
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: How is history different if some events changed (i.e. Shaq etc.)?

LawyerShawn wrote:
It is interesting to see how things may have changed or played out differently if some events took or didn't take place. Playing revisionist, how many championships could the Lakers have realistically won if history was changed?

If Shaq stayed with the Lakers?
If Bynum and Ariza aren't injured in 08?
If Lakers draft Granger instead of Bynum?
If Kobe left?
If Lakers traded for Boozer?
If Lakers traded Kobe for Kidd and Marion?
If Lakers kept Eddie Jones and Van Exel?
If Shaq never comes?
If Chris Paul was never vetoed?
If Dwight stayed a Laker?

etc.

Create your own alternate universe Laker history!


This thread is a Pandora's box.

If we traded Bynum for Melo?
If Phil wasn't diagnosed with prostate cancer during 2011 season?
If we hired Phil instead of MDA?
If Kobe never tore his Achilles?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.

Lakers still lose in 2008 Boston was just better.

May not have gotten to the Finals if Granger was here instead of Bynum

Kobe leaving means LA is screwed for 15 years

We will find out now with Boozer is legit or not

Lakers don't win without Shaq coming here. I think if Jones and Van Exel stayed that team would still win but the Bulls who came with Phil to LA were a major part of why we 3peated.

Chris Paul would have definitely attracted free agents to come to the Lakers. I think he could easily play with Kobe and handle his personality. That's the trade I wish happened

Dwight staying would mean more lame attempts at comedic ghost hunter commercials but that's pretty much it
i agree with a lot here. BUt a healthy ariza + a healthy bynum in 08 is all we needed to win that series. OR of course the refs to not be in the pocket of the Celtics. either one of those scenarios = no rings for kg and pp. and kobe sitting on 6 right now.


Ariza wasn't quite on his game yet in 08. He was getting there though. I certainly wished we had him in 08 rather than the Space Cadet, but I was one of the people that was happy we got Artest in 09-10 as I felt his services were needed against the Celtics.

I do agree that a healthy Bynum would've changed things though, but that wasn't the case unfortunately.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If Artest was never signed and replaced by Ariza and Jack, I think the Lakers win in 2010 and 2011.


I don't know about that. There were a lot of factors involved for why we didn't win in 2011.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:41 am    Post subject:

There's no redialing history, but there's a few enormous pivotal events from Laker history that I'd like to have changed. In moments of weakness, I enjoy thinking about what might have been ...

if Elgin Baylor hadn't torn an ACL in 1962 ...

if Don Nelson's desperation shot at the buzzer bounced off the heel to fall out - rather than in - in 1969 ...

if James Worthy hadn't broken his leg prior to the 1983 playoffs ...

if Magic Johnson hadn't torn his hamstring in 1989 NBA Finals ...

These are the big "what ifs" for me. Directly connected to multiple championship runs that stalled.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:46 am    Post subject:

03-04 If Malone didn't get injured. We kick Detroits butt. The big 4 stay, and win again the next year and the year after! 5-peat!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject:

srm90 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.

Lakers still lose in 2008 Boston was just better.

May not have gotten to the Finals if Granger was here instead of Bynum

Kobe leaving means LA is screwed for 15 years

We will find out now with Boozer is legit or not

Lakers don't win without Shaq coming here. I think if Jones and Van Exel stayed that team would still win but the Bulls who came with Phil to LA were a major part of why we 3peated.

Chris Paul would have definitely attracted free agents to come to the Lakers. I think he could easily play with Kobe and handle his personality. That's the trade I wish happened

Dwight staying would mean more lame attempts at comedic ghost hunter commercials but that's pretty much it
i agree with a lot here. BUt a healthy ariza + a healthy bynum in 08 is all we needed to win that series. OR of course the refs to not be in the pocket of the Celtics. either one of those scenarios = no rings for kg and pp. and kobe sitting on 6 right now.


Ariza wasn't quite on his game yet in 08. He was getting there though. I certainly wished we had him in 08 rather than the Space Cadet, but I was one of the people that was happy we got Artest in 09-10 as I felt his services were needed against the Celtics.

I do agree that a healthy Bynum would've changed things though, but that wasn't the case unfortunately.


Ariza played in the latter games of the 08 series but he was coming off an injury. Don't know if he could have turned the tides but a healthy Ariza probably would have contained Ray Ray and Wheelchair better than Sasha and Radman.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject:

i read this crazy article one time and i've never been able to find it because i read it in a magazine but it was awesome...

it started with the celtics taking tim duncun and tracy mcgrady in the 1997 draft... and magic sticking around for one more season after he retired the second time... helping shaq and kobe reach the finals against jordan and the bulls and losing in 1996... then the lakers coming back to earth in 1997 when the bulls would be battling duncun and t-mac in the east finals ultimatley still winning and beating utah...

then with jordan retired the celtics and lakers would be set up to play in 98' and all the talk about the laker vs celtic rivals would make jordan come back, but instead of suiting up with the wizards, phil jackson would convince him to suit up for the lakers...

pretty crazy article...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
Shaq and Kobe should have won 5 or 6 but unfortunately personal issues got in the way.

Lakers still lose in 2008 Boston was just better.

May not have gotten to the Finals if Granger was here instead of Bynum

Kobe leaving means LA is screwed for 15 years

We will find out now with Boozer is legit or not

Lakers don't win without Shaq coming here. I think if Jones and Van Exel stayed that team would still win but the Bulls who came with Phil to LA were a major part of why we 3peated.

Chris Paul would have definitely attracted free agents to come to the Lakers. I think he could easily play with Kobe and handle his personality. That's the trade I wish happened

Dwight staying would mean more lame attempts at comedic ghost hunter commercials but that's pretty much it
i agree with a lot here. BUt a healthy ariza + a healthy bynum in 08 is all we needed to win that series. OR of course the refs to not be in the pocket of the Celtics. either one of those scenarios = no rings for kg and pp. and kobe sitting on 6 right now.


This. We definitely win that series with a healthy Bynum and Ariza, and likely win the 2010 series in 5 games with a healthy Bynum.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject:

Bison Dele does not get murdered by his brother. Instead, he comes back to play for the Lakers in 2003 (as was rumored to happen) and that's just enough to put them over the Spurs and on to the championship. That momentum carries through to 2004 when the Lakers win again -- 5 in a row.

With the greatest NBA championship winning streak since the 1960s on the line, Shaq stays in L.A. and other free agents keep coming. Lakers win titles in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 to set a new NBA record of 9 consecutive championships!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:50 pm    Post subject:

The best move the Lakers made was dumping Shaq in favor of Kobe. I was against the move at the time but it ultimately was the right move.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject:

If LO and/or Bynum had been traded before Pau got here?
If we could have somehow kept Marc out of the Pau trade?
If we hadn't blown the 3-1 lead against the Suns in 06?
If Kobe had been traded in 07?
If we had traded Pau for that Houston package in 2011/2012?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject:

What if Magic never contracted HIV, but Karl Malone did?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
03-04 If Malone didn't get injured. We kick Detroits butt. The big 4 stay, and win again the next year and the year after! 5-peat!


Yep, his absence was a big reason why the Pistons were able to run roughshod on us that year.
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