Dwight Howard can't even recruit his old teamates : Houston is not a hot destination for free agents.
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Luke
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:


Cleveland was the one place he could leave for and not get flamed. He didn't sign a longer deal because the cap may increase significantly.


Do you really believe Lebron gives a crap about being flamed, renouncing at possible multiple championships? If Lebron considered Houston ( and Howard, and Morey, and Parsons, and role players,and genius gm , the best possibility to win multiple championships , he would have been a Rocket on July, 1st .
Media brainwashing tries to tell us he wanted to go back home, but without all those lottery wins Lebron would have never returned home.


Quote:

At the end of the day he went where he could make the most money. That wasn't Houston.


Since we are talking about desiderable free agent destinations, we have to look at the entire decision process : he obviously didn't consider Houston at the top : Chicago offered significantly less money and still considered a hobbled Rose+ Noah + less money, better than Howard + Harden+ Parsons+role players+ assets+genius gm...

Quote:

Bosh stayed with the team that could pay him the most money.



But Howard was in the same situation and did differently than Bosh last year. Houston might have been fooled by Howard's decision last summer and they believed they are a great place for free agents. Wake-up call : Howard chose Houston because he is not a good decision maker. Other superstars won't follow...

Quote:

We didn't offer him the same $12M deal, and couldn't give him the same % of raises.


He got 12+12+12+12 flat, without raises

By the way, that's your fault ( here we are talking about Morey) if you don't offer the same money. If you have the money and you don't offer it, you are cheap and you don't deserve a championship caliber team.

Quote:

Nelson also got a player option for the 2nd season, which Morey doesn't like to give out. He got more guaranteed money.



Same as above : you could have offered more money in a single year than Dallas gave him for two years.Do you you think that even veteran players should accept Morey's deals like if they are rookies? Maybe Parsons was right that Morey doesn't respect the players ?


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Guys took more money in other places, as I've explained twice already. Pretty basic and quite typical. The only free agent that took less to go somewhere else was Mike Miller. You may be able to add Ray Allen to that list. And its not like they aren't joining the best player in the world in an easier conference or anything....


You forget Gasol who went to Chicago for a lot less money to contend, same as Hawes for the Clippers, and you forget Spurs players who took less to stay there, or Ibaka in OKC, or Dirk in Dallas... not to mention the players above...



Quote:

We are all entitled to our opinion. The facts still show nearly everyone picked more money over Houston...and in most cases significantly more money.



Wrong, as I explained above.

Melo 4 years in NY are = or less than what he would have gotten in Houston, because of the Income state tax in NY.


Lowry could have gotten more in Houston, just like Nelson.


Lebron could have gotten in Houston the same deal he got in Cleveland


Bosh is the only one who took a lot more money, but since he was waiting for Lebron and was reportedly going to accept a big paycut in Miami because he wanted to contend; why chose the money over contention a day later? Maybe because Bosh ( and many others as I have shown) realized you are not as good as you think to be?
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AshesToAshes
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:18 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
i could probably find many including D12 himself, but that's just fine with me if you're saying houston fans were completely satisfied with last season and totally expected this rebuild POST D12 and harden to take their entire contracts.


Yes, please find the Howard quotes that said we were winning a title this season. Being satisfied and predicting titles are two completely different things, but that was a good attempt to move the goalposts.

AshesToAshes wrote:
What's next? pick on grammar and typos? lol


I'm fine with sticking with asking for support for the claims you make.


Thanks for reconfirming.

Not moving goalposts; just making sure I was hearing what I thought.

After d12 and harden, the goal of a first round loss was met and satisfied some of the fan base.

Love this thread!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:13 am    Post subject:

SirRalph1980 wrote:
The Rockets will be lucky to make the playoffs this year. Dwight is going to opt out at the end of the year and walk. Mchale will get fired. Morey however despite another treadmill year will persevere. Hopefully he will understand the value of good coaching before that team implodes. I am a fan of his and he has brought a lot of good things to basketball but I dont see this ending well for him.


If that happens I wonder where he will go?
He isn't welcomed back in LA, if its in a Laker uniform. He pretty much ticked off the fanbase and Kobe, etc...
Brooklyn isn't the great place that he thought it was.
Maybe he can go to the Cavs, but if they get Kevin Love their not going to have money to pay him, plus they won't need him if they get Love.
He can probably go to the Knicks since they will have plenty of money and Phil is the GM.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:32 am    Post subject:

Luke wrote:
Do you really believe Lebron gives a crap about being flamed, renouncing at possible multiple championships?


I believe that if LeBron was going to leave Miami then the only place he would go to was Cleveland. If you choose to believe otherwise or think LeBron is lying then you are entitled to your opinion.

Luke wrote:
Since we are talking about desiderable free agent destinations, we have to look at the entire decision process


Actually we just have to look at where he signed, which was the place where he could make the most money. That goes for every free agent Houston chased but Mike Miller.

Luke wrote:
By the way, that's your fault ( here we are talking about Morey) if you don't offer the same money. If you have the money and you don't offer it, you are cheap and you don't deserve a championship caliber team.


Sure, but that's us not offering money, not players not wanting to play with Howard. There you go with that goalpost moving again.

Luke wrote:
You forget Gasol who went to Chicago for a lot less money to contend, same as Hawes for the Clippers, and you forget Spurs players who took less to stay there, or Ibaka in OKC, or Dirk in Dallas... not to mention the players above...


These players went elsewhere for less money than Houston was willing to give them? There you go with that goalpost moving again.

Luke wrote:
Melo 4 years in NY are = or less than what he would have gotten in Houston, because of the Income state tax in NY.


Melo got a 5th guaranteed year that we could not provide and we also couldn't give him a full max in any year. Next....

Luke wrote:
Lowry could have gotten more in Houston, just like Nelson.


No he couldn't because we weren't willing to pay more. Next....

Luke wrote:
Lebron could have gotten in Houston the same deal he got in Cleveland


No he couldn't, because we could not have offered a full max. Next....

Luke wrote:
Bosh is the only one who took a lot more money


As wrong as wrong can be....
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
i could probably find many including D12 himself, but that's just fine with me if you're saying houston fans were completely satisfied with last season and totally expected this rebuild POST D12 and harden to take their entire contracts.


Yes, please find the Howard quotes that said we were winning a title this season. Being satisfied and predicting titles are two completely different things, but that was a good attempt to move the goalposts.

AshesToAshes wrote:
What's next? pick on grammar and typos? lol


I'm fine with sticking with asking for support for the claims you make.


Thanks for reconfirming.

Not moving goalposts; just making sure I was hearing what I thought.

After d12 and harden, the goal of a first round loss was met and satisfied some of the fan base.

Love this thread!


So I take it that means you can't find quotes from Howard himself or numerous others saying Houston would win a title by year 2 of Howard/Harden, as you claimed above (bolded)? Ironic you claim not be moving goalposts and in your response move the goalposts for a third time. We have gone from winning a title in year 2 to being satisfied with a first round loss. Interesting....
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject:

You know it's the silly season when we actually see a five-page thread with no apparent purpose other than to troll Dreamshake.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
i could probably find many including D12 himself, but that's just fine with me if you're saying houston fans were completely satisfied with last season and totally expected this rebuild POST D12 and harden to take their entire contracts.


Yes, please find the Howard quotes that said we were winning a title this season. Being satisfied and predicting titles are two completely different things, but that was a good attempt to move the goalposts.

AshesToAshes wrote:
What's next? pick on grammar and typos? lol


I'm fine with sticking with asking for support for the claims you make.


Thanks for reconfirming.

Not moving goalposts; just making sure I was hearing what I thought.

After d12 and harden, the goal of a first round loss was met and satisfied some of the fan base.

Love this thread!


So I take it that means you can't find quotes from Howard himself or numerous others saying Houston would win a title by year 2 of Howard/Harden, as you claimed above (bolded)? Ironic you claim not be moving goalposts and in your response move the goalposts for a third time. We have gone from winning a title in year 2 to being satisfied with a first round loss. Interesting....


In your opinion, Dream, was last year a good one for the franchise? Forget about Howard, or Harden, or Morey. For you, the fan of the team?

I am not trying to rub anything in, my friend. It just looked to me, an outsider, that you have a really bad coach and two cornerstones of the franchise that didn't perform as franchise players. But, again, it is not an intelligent observation as I got a chance to watch a total of about twenty to twenty five Houston games, including regular season and playoffs
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject:

Dwight,Harden & Pee-Ons.
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Luke
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:


I believe that if LeBron was going to leave Miami then the only place he would go to was Cleveland. If you choose to believe otherwise or think LeBron is lying then you are entitled to your opinion.



If he wanted only Cleveland, why did his agent met Houston, Phoenix, Dallas ?

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/3/5869705/lebron-james-cavaliers-suns-rockets-mavericks-agent-meeting-rich-paul



Bottom line : he considered Houston( just as Phoenix, Dallas, Miami, Cavs) but he chose not to go with Howard, Harden, Parsons, Beverley good role players, Houston's assets, genius gm, owner willing to spend ( maybe not...)...


Quote:


Actually we just have to look at where he signed, which was the place where he could make the most money. That goes for every free agent Houston chased but Mike Miller.


If you keep repeating to yourself, it might become true...

Quote:


Sure, but that's us not offering money, not players not wanting to play with Howard.


So, Howard reportedly made multiple calls to recruit Nelson, and you didn't got him because your genius GM is cheap ? Maybe your genius gm and Howard are not on the same page ?


Quote:


These players went elsewhere for less money than Houston was willing to give them?





Actually these players didn't even consider Houston as desiderable destination. The biggest example is Dirk, who reportedly didn't even consider a MAX offer from Houston , getting 8 mil per from Dallas. Did he chose the money over Houston ?


http://houseofhouston.com/2014/07/10/report-houston-rockets-offered-dirk-nowitzki-max-contract/




Quote:


No he couldn't because we weren't willing to pay more.


Again. The fact that your genius gm is cheap doesn't excuse your shortcomings as a franchise. If you lowball Lowry, Nelson and Parsons , when you can pay them market value, you have a sorry GM or your franchise player is not able to recruit the players to play for less in Houston. Many others have been succesful at this for other teams.

By the way, repeat with me : Lowry deal is 12 million flat for 4 years without raises


Quote:
No he couldn't, because we could not have offered a full max.


So you offered it to Bosh and Dirk, but you couldn't have offered it to Lebron ?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
In your opinion, Dream, was last year a good one for the franchise? Forget about Howard, or Harden, or Morey. For you, the fan of the team?


Last year was a fun year that ended in disappointment. As a fan of the team, I enjoyed the regular season and was VERY disappointed in the playoffs. I did not expect Houston to contend for a title last season but I expected us to get out of round 1.

golakersgo121 wrote:
I am not trying to rub anything in, my friend. It just looked to me, an outsider, that you have a really bad coach and two cornerstones of the franchise that didn't perform as franchise players. But, again, it is not an intelligent observation as I got a chance to watch a total of about twenty to twenty five Houston games, including regular season and playoffs


We have a horrible coach and Harden did not perform like a franchise player in the postseason, where it mattered most. Howard did IMO.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject:

Luke wrote:
If he wanted only Cleveland, why did his agent met Houston, Phoenix, Dallas ?


To look at all of his options. He noted that he looked at other teams but the only place he would have left for was Cleveland.

Luke wrote:
If you keep repeating to yourself, it might become true...


I've proven that it is true. Melo went where he could make the most money. End of story.

Luke wrote:
So, Howard reportedly made multiple calls to recruit Nelson, and you didn't got him because your genius GM is cheap ? Maybe your genius gm and Howard are not on the same page ?


They may not be, but that still wouldn't be someone deciding not to come because of Howard. There you go with those goalposts again. Dallas gave Nelson a player option for year 2, which our GM does not like to do.

Luke wrote:
Actually these players didn't even consider Houston as desiderable destination. The biggest example is Dirk, who reportedly didn't even consider a MAX offer from Houston , getting 8 mil per from Dallas. Did he chose the money over Houston ?


I forgot about Dirk. He has been adamant from jump that he was not leaving Dallas and took a huge discount to help the team get better. How is this a bash on Howard? You are reallllllllllly reaching.

Luke wrote:
Again. The fact that your genius gm is cheap doesn't excuse your shortcomings as a franchise.


I'm not debating our supposed shortcomings as a franchise. I'm refuting your comments about players deciding not to come to Houston because of Howard, as opposed to them just getting the biggest check available. You can continue to try and move the goalposts all you like but it's not working.

Luke wrote:
So you offered it to Bosh and Dirk, but you couldn't have offered it to Lebron ?


We didn't offer either the full max that they could make with their old team. The same goes for Bosh. The guaranteed contracts on our books would not allow that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject:

Houston offered the vet min to Jameer, Dallas offered him twice that, and an option, of course he took Dallas' offer

No team should be taking queues from its players on personnel, not even Lebron (the Love deal should be a no brainer though), else you end up with 90 year old Scrub ass Mcgee, or trading pointlessly for Shabazz Napier. It's counter intuitive to their final decision making process, it comes miles after winning, money, home, family, and it's not like Dwight and Jameer were actually close off the court to tip that scale (if you were going to get any person for dwight, it would be josh smith).
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:50 am    Post subject:

Houston ain't winning squat anytime soon.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:
Houston ain't winning squat anytime soon.



that's what i keep thinking when i read every single one of dream's posts. i love it.


feels good. it sucked when shaq left here and then won a ring with miami 2 years later. safe to say we won't go through the same thing again.


dwight and harden have talent, but no heart and maturity to win it all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:44 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Houston ain't winning squat anytime soon.



that's what i keep thinking when i read every single one of dream's posts. i love it.


feels good. it sucked when shaq left here and then won a ring with miami 2 years later. safe to say we won't go through the same thing again.


dwight and harden have talent, but no heart and maturity to win it all.
Feels great especially after the bull (bleep) Dwight did. The guy is a coward and snake. He was not Laker material.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Houston ain't winning squat anytime soon.



that's what i keep thinking when i read every single one of dream's posts. i love it.


feels good. it sucked when shaq left here and then won a ring with miami 2 years later. safe to say we won't go through the same thing again.


dwight and harden have talent, but no heart and maturity to win it all.


haha ya....dreamshake can thinks this and thinks that...

the reality is the Rockets aren't winning anytime soon.

In fact, if Coward is their 1st or 2nd option on the team, they are probably never going to win. lol
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject:

rockets can be contenders soon if they change their philosophy which includes playing some type of Defense. but it needs to happen soon within the next few years. adding another legit player will also help next year.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject:

Nnamdi21 wrote:
rockets can be contenders soon if they change their philosophy which includes playing some type of Defense. but it needs to happen soon within the next few years. adding another legit player will also help next year.



if the rockets lose in the 1st round again this year, then dwight will implode. guaranteed.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
rockets can be contenders soon if they change their philosophy which includes playing some type of Defense. but it needs to happen soon within the next few years. adding another legit player will also help next year.



if the rockets lose in the 1st round again this year, then dwight will implode. guaranteed.
He'll ask for a trade to Cleveland.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Howard wasn't recruiting Jameer. They hate each other.

But damn @ that role players comment by Harden. Him and Dwight sharted on Parsons.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject:

I am wondering how Morey is putting moneyball in place in his recruiting system... basically, he's been running after big name free agents just like the other teams.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject:

I LOVE Rocket fans! By far the most entertaining. People like to clown Heat and Clipper fans for being Mr. Johny-come-latelys or being ign'ant about the NBA but I say Rox fans take the cake.

Here is some of the silly infantile (bleep) that most Rox fan brainwash themselves into believing...

1. Morey is a genius--> oh wait hes never won (bleep). Glorified Hollinger.

2. Best SG --> perennial choker; no refs + no eurostep = useless; got exposed w/o KD&RW protecting him and letting him beat 2nd stringers.

3. Best C --> Noah has much more impact in the game. D12 is a TO machine. If he listened to Kobe and became a Super-Chandler he'd been the best C.

4. We have a great team. We got to Rd1. Wait til we get D12, you'll see...

5. Oh well, but hey I really enjoyed the REGULAR season.

Rox fans are the best. Clips/Heat fans can keep the ign'ant title. I take these delusional crackhead Rox fans that see Unicorns flying everywhere. Remember that one friend you had in college that always seemed to be tripping on 'shrooms. Remember how funny his stories were... b/c you knew he was out of touch with reality? Pure entertainment.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject:

I won't laugh at Houston for losing out on Bosh, technically Parsons and others but it isn't surprising. Morey operates his team like he's playing a video game, maybe Bosh didn't want to be shipped to say Boston for Rondo in a year.

The Harden quote was shortsighted if nothing else. He shouldn't feel he has to justify himself as a cornerstone, or make a swipe at Parsons without thinking about his teammates. If he were a leader he would talk about how he's going to start playing defense and then maybe his peasants would learn by his example that they can improve gaping holes in their games too.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject:

Drifts wrote:
I am wondering how Morey is putting moneyball in place in his recruiting system... basically, he's been running after big name free agents just like the other teams.


In basketball, there are artificial salary restrictions on two types of players, stars and rookies

So the best value players are, stars and rookies

Finding gems in the rough has become a lot harder because everyone else has advanced on that front (it's similar to how for several years the Spurs had a huge competitive advantage on unknown euros in the draft, but the chances of a Ginobili or Parker slipping today is next to none)

Baseball is a whole different story, with no cap, no floor and some of the most absurd salary structures in all of sports.

The other side of that is that it's a soft cap, so when you blow the cap, you probably want to do it in as grandiose a fashion as possible, once you hit the luxury tax, there's really no wiggle room anymore since you're locked into only the mmle which is reserved for old or scrub, neither which is ever going to make a team a 1st seed from a 4th seed.

While Morey has become a lightning rod, it's more a case of what you could call the Boston school, of which there are 4 gms in the league, Ainge (obviously), Morey, Hinkie (Philly) and Mcdonough (Phoenix), they all basically act the same way.


Last edited by Telleris on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:05 pm    Post subject:

Telleris wrote:
Drifts wrote:
I am wondering how Morey is putting moneyball in place in his recruiting system... basically, he's been running after big name free agents just like the other teams.


In basketball, there are artificial salary restrictions on two types of players, stars and rookies

So the best value players are, stars and rookies

Finding gems in the rough has become a lot harder because everyone else has advanced on that front (it's similar to how for several years the Spurs had a huge competitive advantage on unknown euros in the draft, but the chances of a Ginobili or Parker slipping today is next to none)

Baseball is a whole different story, with no cap, no floor and some of the most absurd salary structures in all of sports.

The other side of that is that it's a soft cap, so when you blow the cap, you probably want to do it in as grandiose a fashion as possible, once you hit the luxury tax, there's really no wiggle room anymore since you're locked into only the mmle which is received for old or scrub, neither which is ever going to make a team a 1st seed from a 4th seed.

While Morey has become a lightning rod, it's more a case of what you could call the Boston school, of which there are 4 gms in the league, Ainge (obviously), Morey, Hinkie (Philly) and Mcdonough (Phoenix), they all basically act the same way.


I am still looking for how Morey is looking at it from his point of view... he's gone after Harden, Howard, Lebron (I think), Melo, Bosh... all basically big name guys, who command max salaries.

of the 4 you've mentioned, Phoenix fits the mold, perhaps Boston too after the departure of the big 3. But Philly's been tanking, and Morey's been overspending.
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