Dwight Howard can't even recruit his old teamates : Houston is not a hot destination for free agents.
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thegreatest
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
the rockets are in trouble. the window is closing...how much cap room will they have next year? They definitely need a legit 3rd option or 2-3 very good role players.


It depends on what we do with the remainder of our exceptions and the Lin trade exception this year. I believe we can have max or near max room next year if no other long term deals were added.

I think it's a reach to say the team is in trouble. There doesn't appear to be any improvement from the prior season though.

Even if the Rockets decline all player options and decide not to give Beverley a QF, the Rockets won't have enough. If the cap grows to 68 million, the Rockets will only have 17M in space.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject:

thegreatest wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
the rockets are in trouble. the window is closing...how much cap room will they have next year? They definitely need a legit 3rd option or 2-3 very good role players.


It depends on what we do with the remainder of our exceptions and the Lin trade exception this year. I believe we can have max or near max room next year if no other long term deals were added.

I think it's a reach to say the team is in trouble. There doesn't appear to be any improvement from the prior season though.

Even if the Rockets decline all player options and decide not to give Beverly a QF, the Rockets won't have enough. If the cap grows to 68 million, the Rockets will only have 17M in space.


I'm not sure there will even be a free agent worth $17m on the market next year, the best will be who? Assuming Love gets traded, and Lebron is just re-working contracts, it'll be who? Dragic and Millsap? Maybe Aldridge if Portland take a giant dump this season? The contracts have been worked with the 2016 tv rights deal in mind.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject:

Jackobe wrote:

They definitely got worse than last year after losing Parson, Asik, and Lin.


No they didn't. Lin's production shouldn't be hard to replace and Asik gave us nothing for the majority of the season. Ariza isn't a huge downgrade from Parsons and may be a better fit because of what he brings defensively. Plus Harden and Jones (both young) should improve. So no, we didn't definitely get worse.

Jackobe wrote:

Got bounced in the first round by a non-contender in Blazers last year wasn't a good sign either.


It's possible for any team to get bounced in the 1st, as competitive as the West is. Another 1st round exit would surely be a disappointment, just like it was last season. We weren't exactly considered a contender last year either though (since you say we were bounced by a non-contender).

Jackobe wrote:

They in mediocrity right now, and unless they get another star they will continue stay in mediocre. There are just too many great teams in the West and many of them have improved and Rockets have not.


OKC improved? The Clippers improved? Did Portland really improve? How did GS improve? How did Dallas improve?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject:

thegreatest wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
the rockets are in trouble. the window is closing...how much cap room will they have next year? They definitely need a legit 3rd option or 2-3 very good role players.


It depends on what we do with the remainder of our exceptions and the Lin trade exception this year. I believe we can have max or near max room next year if no other long term deals were added.

I think it's a reach to say the team is in trouble. There doesn't appear to be any improvement from the prior season though.

Even if the Rockets decline all player options and decide not to give Beverley a QF, the Rockets won't have enough. If the cap grows to 68 million, the Rockets will only have 17M in space.


So then I would be correct in saying Houston can have max or near max space (a max contract can be in the $15M range, or what Parson's just got)?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject:

yup, I agree Houston got worse. Lin, Parsons and Asik are good players.
although, Ariza is an upgrade over Parson in the defensive end though... But I'd like the see Dwight's reaction when Ariza bricks his kickouts to him.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
the rockets are in trouble. the window is closing...how much cap room will they have next year? They definitely need a legit 3rd option or 2-3 very good role players.


It depends on what we do with the remainder of our exceptions and the Lin trade exception this year. I believe we can have max or near max room next year if no other long term deals were added.

I think it's a reach to say the team is in trouble. There doesn't appear to be any improvement from the prior season though.


Trouble for next year. I dont think another 1st round exit will set in well with the fans or team. Dwight will be 29 in december so everything is downhill for him. He can still be a very good defensive center. They need to get rid of McHale in order for him to showcase his defensive prowess.

If they can get another star in the next year or 2 or 3, they'll be alright.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Nnamdi21 wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
the rockets are in trouble. the window is closing...how much cap room will they have next year? They definitely need a legit 3rd option or 2-3 very good role players.


It depends on what we do with the remainder of our exceptions and the Lin trade exception this year. I believe we can have max or near max room next year if no other long term deals were added.

I think it's a reach to say the team is in trouble. There doesn't appear to be any improvement from the prior season though.


Trouble for next year. I dont think another 1st round exit will set in well with the fans or team. Dwight will be 29 in december so everything is downhill for him. He can still be a very good defensive center. They need to get rid of McHale in order for him to showcase his defensive prowess.

If they can get another star in the next year or 2 or 3, they'll be alright.


Yep, problem for him is that he never worked on his post game. I guess he's fine with it in this new era where there is a lack of quality big men, but as you approach your 30's you cannot rely on sheer athleticism to dominate anymore. I don't think working on it over the summer this late in his career is going to change that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
thegreatest wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Nnamdi21 wrote:
the rockets are in trouble. the window is closing...how much cap room will they have next year? They definitely need a legit 3rd option or 2-3 very good role players.


It depends on what we do with the remainder of our exceptions and the Lin trade exception this year. I believe we can have max or near max room next year if no other long term deals were added.

I think it's a reach to say the team is in trouble. There doesn't appear to be any improvement from the prior season though.

Even if the Rockets decline all player options and decide not to give Beverley a QF, the Rockets won't have enough. If the cap grows to 68 million, the Rockets will only have 17M in space.


So then I would be correct in saying Houston can have max or near max space (a max contract can be in the $15M range, or what Parson's just got)?

Depends on what type of max contract, but you are correct. I also forgot to include NO pick, and Nick's contract which could eat up another 2M or so. Most likely they pick up the team options and make the QF to Beverley, which would leave them unable to make a max offer without trades.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Jackobe wrote:

They definitely got worse than last year after losing Parson, Asik, and Lin.


No they didn't. Lin's production shouldn't be hard to replace and Asik gave us nothing for the majority of the season. Ariza isn't a huge downgrade from Parsons and may be a better fit because of what he brings defensively. Plus Harden and Jones (both young) should improve. So no, we didn't definitely get worse.

Jackobe wrote:

Got bounced in the first round by a non-contender in Blazers last year wasn't a good sign either.


It's possible for any team to get bounced in the 1st, as competitive as the West is. Another 1st round exit would surely be a disappointment, just like it was last season. We weren't exactly considered a contender last year either though (since you say we were bounced by a non-contender).

Jackobe wrote:

They in mediocrity right now, and unless they get another star they will continue stay in mediocre. There are just too many great teams in the West and many of them have improved and Rockets have not.


OKC improved? The Clippers improved? Did Portland really improve? How did GS improve? How did Dallas improve?


1. Sure...Lin and Asik might not be hard to replace, but what have Houston done to replace them? Using ur 3rd string back ups to replace ur 2nd string back up is not an improvement by any mean. And I love Trevor, but I don't believe he is better than Parson overall. Jones I do see great potential, but no way Harden improves much. He has been in the league for 5 years, he is what he is. And his defense isn't getting better anytime soon. lol

2. I didn't believe Houston were a contender because their two best players are Dwight and Harden. But I think the media believe they were a contender or at least a dark horse in the West. Plus I'm sure Dwight believed Houston would be contending with him or else he wouldn't have choose Houston.

3. I said many of them improved, I didn't say all. Spurs obviously didn't need improvement, just need to bring everyone back, but Kawhi's emergence will make them better. OKC didn't improve significantly but made underrated moves, added a terrific shooter Anthony Morrow, and a really solid rookie Mitch McGray. Portland also made underrated moves with Kaman, Blake, and getting back CJ McCollum, also Lillard is gonna get better. Then Mavs definitely got better with Chandler, Parson, Jefferson, Aminu, Nelson and they were one game away from beating the Spurs last year.

Bottom line is, you can say Parson, Asik and Lin replaceable but they are 3 starter quality players the Rockets just lost, and Rockets only added 1 starter quality player in Trevor. Even though off-season isn't over, but unless they bring in another significant player they are a mediocre team in the West. There are 4 or 5 teams they can't beat.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject:

How long before Coward starts whining, pouting and blaming Hakeem?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:08 am    Post subject:

Laker Lover wrote:
How long before Coward starts whining, pouting and blaming Hakeem?

Depends on how the 2014-2015 season goes. It's looking like another first round exit this year for them.

If that's the case, then 2015-2016 could be the final year of this contract in Houston, since 2016-2017 is an option year.

He probably learned his lesson from Orlando when he failed to opt out under pressure from management/media. And even then, he was agitating to get traded prior to having to exercise/decline his option year.

So if the Rockets flop with another first round exit in this coming 2014-2015 season, the next year of 2015-2016 could be Dwightmare with Morey trying to get trade value before Dwight leaves for nothing, or the Rockets brass pleading with him to opt in like Orlando did.

It all hinges on how the Rockets do this season and the off-season after. Is it another first round exit? Can they get a marquee free agent in the off-season after yet another first round exit, in order to convince Howard to give it another try? If not, Dwightmare can come as soon as next season. This will be the last one before the storm, before trade rumors start swirling if Morey thinks he needs to get value for Dwight before he opts out and leaves if he can't convince Dwight to opt in.

But regardless, I don't see him blaming Hakeem, who isn't even in the States much of the time with his overseas projects.


Last edited by AirShooter on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:56 am    Post subject:

Houston is never going to win a title with those two leading the way.

Sure, the Lakers were a joke last summer because they couldn't convince that mental midget to re-sign with them. Right. I said then and I'll say it now, that always said more about Howard than it did about the Lakers.

Howard is a cartoon character. He is not a serious person. He lacks the fire in the belly of the true greats, and he knows it. I'm glad he's gone. I'd rather be in hard times trying to build for the future than being first or second round playoff fodder with that clown show.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:32 am    Post subject:

Jackobe wrote:

1. Sure...Lin and Asik might not be hard to replace, but what have Houston done to replace them?


It's only July. It appears that the team tried to sign Nelson, and they drafted PGs over the last two seasons. The guy who played backup C for us the majority of last year is the sand dude, since Asik was hurt/pouring for most of the year.

Jackobe wrote:

And I love Trevor, but I don't believe he is better than Parson overall.


One is better offensively and the other is better defensively. Parsons is the better player but Ariza may be a better fit since we had no wing defender.

Jackobe wrote:

Jones I do see great potential, but no way Harden improves much. He has been in the league for 5 years, he is what he is. And his defense isn't getting better anytime soon. lol


It's pretty ridiculous to say a 24 yr old guy in his 3rd year starting can't improve. His defense would improve if he simply gave effort. The hate in this one is strong, lol.

Jackobe wrote:

2. I didn't believe Houston were a contender because their two best players are Dwight and Harden. But I think the media believe they were a contender or at least a dark horse in the West. Plus I'm sure Dwight believed Houston would be contending with him or else he wouldn't have choose Houston.


I don't recall seeing hardly anyone pick Houston to come out of the West. If Howard believes they are contenders I'm sure his belief lied within himself and Harden, and not the players we lost this summer (two that weren't going to be returning regardless).

Jackobe wrote:

3. I said many of them improved, I didn't say all. Spurs obviously didn't need improvement, just need to bring everyone back, but Kawhi's emergence will make them better. OKC didn't improve significantly but made underrated moves, added a terrific shooter Anthony Morrow, and a really solid rookie Mitch McGray. Portland also made underrated moves with Kaman, Blake, and getting back CJ McCollum, also Lillard is gonna get better. Then Mavs definitely got better with Chandler, Parson, Jefferson, Aminu, Nelson and they were one game away from beating the Spurs last year.


So it sounds like you haven't listed how anyone significantly improved. I'd also argue Dallas got weaker. They lost a lot of players that contributed last season.

Jackobe wrote:

Bottom line is, you can say Parson, Asik and Lin replaceable but they are 3 starter quality players the Rockets just lost, and Rockets only added 1 starter quality player in Trevor.


Lin isn't a starter quality player IMO. He wouldn't start for any contending team. Asik is a starting player but again, he gave us nothing for most of last season.

Jackobe wrote:

Even though off-season isn't over, but unless they bring in another significant player they are a mediocre team in the West. There are 4 or 5 teams they can't beat.


Similar to last year, I only think there are two teams the Rockets need a miracle to beat (SA and OKC). If Harden shoots 30% again then I wouldn't be surprised to see any playoff team in the west beat them as Portland did, but I would make the same argument for any team that had their 2nd best player and leading scorer flame out in a series.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:34 am    Post subject:

Nelson still plays?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:56 am    Post subject:

27 wrote:
Nelson still plays?


Pretty well actually.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:07 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Jackobe wrote:

They definitely got worse than last year after losing Parson, Asik, and Lin.


No they didn't. Lin's production shouldn't be hard to replace and Asik gave us nothing for the majority of the season. Ariza isn't a huge downgrade from Parsons and may be a better fit because of what he brings defensively. Plus Harden and Jones (both young) should improve. So no, we didn't definitely get worse.


The Rockets probably would have gotten swept in the first round if it wasn't for Asik. He changed the dynamic of that series when he was inserted into the starting line up to guard Aldridge. Game 3, which the Rockets won, Asik played 27min23sec and led the team in +/- differential. Game 5, which the Rockets won, Asik played 33min29sec, and had 10 points, 15 rebounds.

Asik also held a red hot Aldridge to 8 of 22 shooting in game 3, and 3 of 12 in game 5.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:54 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:


OKC improved? The Clippers improved? Did Portland really improve? How did GS improve? How did Dallas improve?


maybe stagnant - but rockets star was their 6th man.. so come on now.
clippers - yes
portland - yes
GS - yes, just because
Dallas - uhh yes

rockets? "can harden and howard overcome WEAKENED rockets?"

well... no.. they weakened themselves because their stars need a third max just to get to the second round.. hopefully..
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:


OKC improved? The Clippers improved? Did Portland really improve? How did GS improve? How did Dallas improve?


maybe stagnant - but rockets star was their 6th man.. so come on now.
clippers - yes
portland - yes
GS - yes, just because
Dallas - uhh yes

rockets? "can harden and howard overcome WEAKENED rockets?"

well... no.. they weakened themselves because their stars need a third max just to get to the second round.. hopefully..


The Clippers were stagnant (Collison did really well for them), but that's ignoring the other things that could be really bad.

Portland? eh I like Mo more than I like Blake, I suppose Kaman is an improvement, but then Portland suffered the least injuries from a starting lineup in nba history last season.

Warriors? who knows

Dallas? they're treading water, and surrounding Dirk with guys who can't defend seems like a recipe for success.

Yeah Houston is down on where they were last year. but just a decent trade using that New Orleans draft pick and tpe and it's about where they started.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject:

Telleris wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:


OKC improved? The Clippers improved? Did Portland really improve? How did GS improve? How did Dallas improve?


maybe stagnant - but rockets star was their 6th man.. so come on now.
clippers - yes
portland - yes
GS - yes, just because
Dallas - uhh yes

rockets? "can harden and howard overcome WEAKENED rockets?"

well... no.. they weakened themselves because their stars need a third max just to get to the second round.. hopefully..


The Clippers were stagnant (Collison did really well for them), but that's ignoring the other things that could be really bad.

Portland? eh I like Mo more than I like Blake, I suppose Kaman is an improvement, but then Portland suffered the least injuries from a starting lineup in nba history last season.

Warriors? who knows

Dallas? they're treading water, and surrounding Dirk with guys who can't defend seems like a recipe for success.

Yeah Houston is down on where they were last year. but just a decent trade using that New Orleans draft pick and tpe and it's about where they started.


every nba team is "just a trade away"..

the point is that everyone made some moves that can payoff.. 50/50.

The one team that hasn't, GSW, has the youngest and most promising guard combo followed by a damn good roster. That is a team that needs some time; not moves.

houston? went into the offseason as the winner of the most disappointing season looking for a 3rd star. Bad bet on bosh, ok fine. But we're talking about now and to say you minus guys like parsons, lin and asik and end up equal or better just sounds like you're on D12's hype crew.

And i'm betting on all 3 to have improved seasons this year to boot, just from change in scenery and/or "teammates".
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject:

TheJellosJigglin' wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Jackobe wrote:

They definitely got worse than last year after losing Parson, Asik, and Lin.


No they didn't. Lin's production shouldn't be hard to replace and Asik gave us nothing for the majority of the season. Ariza isn't a huge downgrade from Parsons and may be a better fit because of what he brings defensively. Plus Harden and Jones (both young) should improve. So no, we didn't definitely get worse.


The Rockets probably would have gotten swept in the first round if it wasn't for Asik. He changed the dynamic of that series when he was inserted into the starting line up to guard Aldridge. Game 3, which the Rockets won, Asik played 27min23sec and led the team in +/- differential. Game 5, which the Rockets won, Asik played 33min29sec, and had 10 points, 15 rebounds.

Asik also held a red hot Aldridge to 8 of 22 shooting in game 3, and 3 of 12 in game 5.


He changed the dynamic of the series? That's a pretty big reach. Did he not play the first two games? I believe he did.

G1 - He had 5 fouls in 12 minutes. Aldridge essentially took him out of the game.

G2 - He played 24 minutes in G2, when Aldridge rained jumpers in his face. Aldridge scored 43 on 64% shooting. Asik got his fair share of that 43.

G3 - Asik changed the dynamic of this series and this game in G3? Hmm, I guess Harden ending his slump with a 37 point game wasn't it. Interesting....

G4 - Asik started this game as well, which we lost. Aldridge had 29 on 52%. I thought he changed the dynamic of the series? I count 4 games with Aldridge going off in 3 of them, and Asik played each one.

G5 - This was the game where Howard and Lin got off and we were up by 17 at one point. We blew that lead and Howard was on Aldridge to close the game (Asik fouled out).

G6 - Asik fouled out again. Aldridge had 30 (although he shot poorly).

Asik helped in the matchup against Portland. If we had a matchup against a team that didn't start two bigs (ie SA, OKC, LAC, GS, Dallas) then the twin towers lineup would have been ineffective and he would have played limited minutes, like he did for the majority of the regular season (most of his time was to start the season in the twin towers lineup and when Howard was out with injury to close the year).

Asik changed the dynamic of the series.


Last edited by Dreamshake on Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
[But we're talking about now and to say you minus guys like parsons, lin and asik and end up equal or better just sounds like you're on D12's hype crew.


Some of us simply realize how sporadic Lin was as a Rocket, how limited Asik's contributions were last season, and what Ariza brings to the table that Parson's doesn't. Some of you are overstating the contributions of two backups that were not going to be on the team regardless (Lin/Asik) and underestimating what Ariza brings to the table.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Asik changed the dynamic of the series.


You can laugh all you want and try to save face for your team getting worse this off-season, but Asik's move into the starting line up did change the dynamic of the series. I'm sorry your team lost some good depth.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject:

TheJellosJigglin' wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Asik changed the dynamic of the series.


You can laugh all you want and try to save face for your team getting worse this off-season, but Asik's move into the starting line up did change the dynamic of the series. I'm sorry your team lost some good depth.


How did it change the dynamic of the series? Did we not lose G4, with Aldridge going off? So that put us down 3-1. Did he not play in G1 and G2, where he got to hold Aldridge and fouled out of one game and Aldridge scored 43 in the other. He only can make a defensive impact starting? He also fouled out of the next two games.

How did his insertion into the starting lineup in G3 have a bigger impact than Harden scoring 37 points? How did he have more of an impact in G5 than Howard and Lin going off, with Howard guarding Aldridge to close the game because he fouled out?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject:

Well dang, since we aren't going to do very good this season, I can relish in the joy of some douche bags doing badly too!

Here's three cheers to hoping that Howard sinks from the weight of his massive ego!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
[But we're talking about now and to say you minus guys like parsons, lin and asik and end up equal or better just sounds like you're on D12's hype crew.


Some of us simply realize how sporadic Lin was as a Rocket, how limited Asik's contributions were last season, and what Ariza brings to the table that Parson's doesn't. Some of you are overstating the contributions of two backups that were not going to be on the team regardless (Lin/Asik) and underestimating what Ariza brings to the table.


Perhaps he'll do better than his first stint with the Rockets. I like the dude, but given it's not a contract year anymore...
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