|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
AshesToAshes
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | Decent piece on why Morey expects the team to not have a dropoff from last year:
| Quote: |
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/rockets/article/Daryl-Morey-sees-improvement-for-Rockets-despite-5647426.php?cmpid=twitter-premium&t=fde9b079a1cba496f0
Though he did not give it much thought, Daryl Morey could have predicted the backlash.
He considered his chances of landing Chris Bosh or one of the other top free agents of the summer much smaller than of signing Dwight Howard last season. As it turned out, the Rockets got closer than Morey expected for Bosh in the hours after LeBron James chose to leave Miami for Cleveland. But being left at the altar in public view only drew criticism for a failed courtship.
The criticism that was sure to come never was factored in as consideration when the Rockets general manager and owner Leslie Alexander formulated off-season strategies.
Morey has, however, found the reaction – swift and severe – interesting.
"It comes with the territory," Morey said. "When we traded for (James) Harden and signed Dwight I think everyone was positive about everything. I don't see many stories like 'that was a pretty good job' or 'that was slightly below average.' You either get, 'that's amazing' or 'that's completely ridiculous and terrible.'
"To me, that follows the incentive of the media which is to write to one guardrail or the other."
To Morey's thinking, a good shot is worth taking. Good shots don't all go in, but you still take the next one.
"I think if you know the outcome of things, sometimes you might do things differently," he said. "But we feel pretty comfortable that given the information and constraints we were facing at the various points, we made very good bets. Sometimes you have 11 and you double down and you get two. It doesn't mean it was wrong to double down."
There is also an irony to the criticism, and not just because Morey used the exact same strategy of cap clearing to chase this season's top free agents that he used to chase Howard (though those moves began during the season when he dealt his starting and backup power forwards). He received much more attention and ultimately backlash for the moves this season because they worked last season, bringing Howard and the spotlight.
Morey's reputation, however, is not tied to the summer decisions as much as to the evaluations that will determine the success of the season to come. Actually, many will not wait to choose a narrative and go with that no matter what happens.
Still, others will make judgments based on results. It is one thing to show your work, but at some point grades are determined based on whether you provide the correct answer.
Morey is steadfast that this summer will net progress, declaring on the day after the decision not to match Chandler Parsons' $46 million offer sheet from the Mavericks that the Rockets will be a better team heading into next season's playoffs than they were when they began last post-season.
This was dismissed as spin, and to a degree it might have been since he said it on a series of Houston drive-time radio shows that were not scheduled before Parsons was cast as the Mavericks superstar in waiting.
That does not mean Morey was not sincere in his prediction. He insists he meant it at the time and still does having based the opinion on multiple considerations.
His arguments basically fall into three categories; that he is in a position to continue to make moves, that Terrence Jones and Pat Beverley will continue to blossom in their second full seasons playing regularly and that some among his long list of young players – "pieces" as Harden called them – will fill the potential voids off the bench.
(That does not include the flexibility to offer another max contract next summer, since few are inclined to look that far ahead or offer an off-season mulligan.)
"I think it's pretty unlikely that guys younger than 25 (Jones and Beverley) aren't going to get better in their second full season in the NBA as starters," Morey said. "You have Donatas (Motiejunas) going into his second full season. We really like some of the guys we signed to date in (Joey) Dorsey, Jeff Adrien and Ish Smith. We've got (Isaiah) Canaan coming on in the summer league.
"On top of that, we still have our mid-level. And even if we don't sign someone like that now, very often there's players that come free during the season where if you were to have the advantage of having a mid-level you can add them. We have the trade exception, which can add someone (paid) up to $8.4 million. We have I think the best draft pick in the league for someone to trade for (the first-round pick acquired from the Pelicans). I think we have the best set of international rights held guys to either bring over or use in a trade.
"It's a pretty long list of ways to upgrade. And I think if you just take the roster as is, we feel like we're very similar as far as the quality of the team compared to game one last year with lot of ways to upgrade."
Last summer, the Rockets were counting on Jones or Motiejunas to start at power forward and Beverley, who became the starter, to get significant playing time at point guard. This season, the starting lineup is set with Trevor Ariza replacing Parsons. The bench so far is made up entirely of players that will have greater roles than they ever have.
"We obviously maybe have question marks at some of our bench positions, but I think last year we went into the season with question marks starting," Morey said. "We believe in our ability to evaluate talent. Last year we went in with Beverley in his first year as a starter, a big question mark at the four spot where Terrence and Donatas really stepped up. We're comfortable in our talent evaluation that the guys that we have will improve coming in and will step up and play well."
Omer Asik averaged 20 minutes in 48 games. Jeremy Lin averaged 29 minutes, 35 percent at shooting guard, though roughly half his playing time came at shooting guard in the games Beverley was healthy. Lin's departure leaves voids at two positions, but the Rockets hopes are that Canaan will step up at the point and Troy Daniels in Lin's backup shooting guard minutes.
Between them, they have played in just 27 regular-season NBA games, though both have shown some potential for the jobs after starring in the D-League last season, with Canaan exceling in summer league and Daniels in last season's playoff series.
Still, Lin and Asik were the only reserves Kevin McHale played regularly in the post-season. Though Morey said he came away from his cap-clearing in better shape than he would have guessed – with the pick acquired for Asik much better than the pick the Rockets lost to move Lin – McHale will have a fourth-consecutive season with a radically different rotation off the bench.
"People talk about Omer like we had him all year," Morey said. "Obviously, Omer is a very, very good player, but we played fine in that stretch we didn't have him (going 22-12) or we wouldn't have won 54 games. Jeremy contributed more than Omer, but guards are a little easier to replace. I feel good about the guys we brought in and their ability to step in across Canaan, Nick Johnson and Ish Smith and Troy Daniels. We just have a really good set of young players."
Still, players taken in the second round or not at all don't inspire public confidence as do proven veterans, even if Parsons was also an overshadowed player taken in the second-round.
As with last season, the Rockets have filled out their bench with players on minimum contracts. That left them very thin after Asik and Lin. But they believe that this season, that the move from Parsons to Ariza and the additions of Dorsey, Adrien and Alonzo Gee places a much-needed emphasis on defense and toughness.
"Last year was Dwight's first year with us. I think you get a better feel for what this team's strengths and weaknesses are. Last year, we were very potent offensively, but we felt we needed more balance. We have championships aspirations. To do that, you have to be effective on both ends. From our head coach down … we felt we got to get more defense, rebound better, tougher, more physical, more competitive and deeper. All our additions, starting with Trevor, there's a definite emphasis on rebounding and defense."
Offensively, the Rockets will have to make up for the loss of playmakers Parsons and Lin with shooters, hoping their style and an improved defense creates open shots that they will not be as equipped to create off the dribble.
That is still likely to fall short of what Morey thought he would have when he expected to land Bosh and keep Parsons. Since then, the narrative was for many set.
The Rockets might be compared not to what they were, but to what they could have been. If Morey is right and the Rockets are by the start of the playoffs better than they were in their most-recent first-round exit, the post-season could finally put the off-season to rest. That might be the only thing that can. |
The disappointing part about this summer is we had a chance to get better with max room available, and we struck out. I don't think we got any worse though. |
a dropoff from last year would be missing playoffs. So congrats on that one?
i don't see the point you're trying to make.
It's now essay worthy for houston to talk about making playoffs? it's only been one season since expecting rings no? isn't this year 2 of D12/Harden - the year you're supposed to win?
_________________
KOBE!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lakersken80 wrote: | | Dallas is going to be a better team than the Rockets next year. Remember last year the Mavs were only 5 games worse than the Rockets. With all the moves they made in free agency they are definitely going to be better as a team overall. |
They lost every contributor besides Dirk and Monta, signed an old Chandler, a good Parsons and got worse at PG. Their bench looks weaker than ours does. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| AshesToAshes wrote: | | i don't see the point you're trying to make. |
That the team is no worse than we were last year and still has options to get better come playoff time.
| AshesToAshes wrote: | | isn't this year 2 of D12/Harden - the year you're supposed to win? |
Who made that prediction? Link? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AshesToAshes
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | AshesToAshes wrote: | | i don't see the point you're trying to make. |
That the team is no worse than we were last year and still has options to get better come playoff time.
| AshesToAshes wrote: | | isn't this year 2 of D12/Harden - the year you're supposed to win? |
Who made that prediction? Link? |
i could probably find many including D12 himself, but that's just fine with me if you're saying houston fans were completely satisfied with last season and totally expected this rebuild POST D12 and harden to take their entire contracts.
What's next? pick on grammar and typos? lol
_________________
KOBE!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jackobe
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 4466
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Dallas is going to be a better team than the Rockets next year. Remember last year the Mavs were only 5 games worse than the Rockets. With all the moves they made in free agency they are definitely going to be better as a team overall. |
They lost every contributor besides Dirk and Monta, signed an old Chandler, a good Parsons and got worse at PG. Their bench looks weaker than ours does. |
Old TC? dude is 31 years old.....
They lost VC (37), Marion (36) those two are what u called old. Replaced them with younger and perhaps better Parson (25) and RJ (34).
Same thing at center position...Samuel is 33, TC is 31 and way way way better.
They lost Calderon who is solid, but he only contributed 11ppg and 4.7 apg last year. You are calling Lin as someone easily replaceable and he averaged 12.5 ppg and 4 apg. They added Nelson who is same age as Calderon and still can produce under the right situation.
Harris, Felton, RJ, B.Wright off the bench are not great, but decent. Their starters got a lot better than last year. So they are definitely better than last year and most likely better than Houston. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: |
They definitely got worse than last year after losing Parson, Asik, and Lin. |
No they didn't. Lin's production shouldn't be hard to replace and Asik gave us nothing for the majority of the season.
|
I obviously didn't watch Houston much during the season, but in the playoffs, Asik did give your team quite a bit. At least when he played. Which brings me to your greatest weakness, head coach. Take that from a guy whose team has suffered from the same weakness for a couple of seasons.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jackobe wrote: | Conclusion of this thread....Dreamshake is a pretty biased homer.
|
I guess he and I are kindred souls.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Laker Lover
Star Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 2274
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AshesToAshes wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | Decent piece on why Morey expects the team to not have a dropoff from last year:
| Quote: |
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/rockets/article/Daryl-Morey-sees-improvement-for-Rockets-despite-5647426.php?cmpid=twitter-premium&t=fde9b079a1cba496f0
Though he did not give it much thought, Daryl Morey could have predicted the backlash.
He considered his chances of landing Chris Bosh or one of the other top free agents of the summer much smaller than of signing Dwight Howard last season. As it turned out, the Rockets got closer than Morey expected for Bosh in the hours after LeBron James chose to leave Miami for Cleveland. But being left at the altar in public view only drew criticism for a failed courtship.
The criticism that was sure to come never was factored in as consideration when the Rockets general manager and owner Leslie Alexander formulated off-season strategies.
Morey has, however, found the reaction – swift and severe – interesting.
"It comes with the territory," Morey said. "When we traded for (James) Harden and signed Dwight I think everyone was positive about everything. I don't see many stories like 'that was a pretty good job' or 'that was slightly below average.' You either get, 'that's amazing' or 'that's completely ridiculous and terrible.'
"To me, that follows the incentive of the media which is to write to one guardrail or the other."
To Morey's thinking, a good shot is worth taking. Good shots don't all go in, but you still take the next one.
"I think if you know the outcome of things, sometimes you might do things differently," he said. "But we feel pretty comfortable that given the information and constraints we were facing at the various points, we made very good bets. Sometimes you have 11 and you double down and you get two. It doesn't mean it was wrong to double down."
There is also an irony to the criticism, and not just because Morey used the exact same strategy of cap clearing to chase this season's top free agents that he used to chase Howard (though those moves began during the season when he dealt his starting and backup power forwards). He received much more attention and ultimately backlash for the moves this season because they worked last season, bringing Howard and the spotlight.
Morey's reputation, however, is not tied to the summer decisions as much as to the evaluations that will determine the success of the season to come. Actually, many will not wait to choose a narrative and go with that no matter what happens.
Still, others will make judgments based on results. It is one thing to show your work, but at some point grades are determined based on whether you provide the correct answer.
Morey is steadfast that this summer will net progress, declaring on the day after the decision not to match Chandler Parsons' $46 million offer sheet from the Mavericks that the Rockets will be a better team heading into next season's playoffs than they were when they began last post-season.
This was dismissed as spin, and to a degree it might have been since he said it on a series of Houston drive-time radio shows that were not scheduled before Parsons was cast as the Mavericks superstar in waiting.
That does not mean Morey was not sincere in his prediction. He insists he meant it at the time and still does having based the opinion on multiple considerations.
His arguments basically fall into three categories; that he is in a position to continue to make moves, that Terrence Jones and Pat Beverley will continue to blossom in their second full seasons playing regularly and that some among his long list of young players – "pieces" as Harden called them – will fill the potential voids off the bench.
(That does not include the flexibility to offer another max contract next summer, since few are inclined to look that far ahead or offer an off-season mulligan.)
"I think it's pretty unlikely that guys younger than 25 (Jones and Beverley) aren't going to get better in their second full season in the NBA as starters," Morey said. "You have Donatas (Motiejunas) going into his second full season. We really like some of the guys we signed to date in (Joey) Dorsey, Jeff Adrien and Ish Smith. We've got (Isaiah) Canaan coming on in the summer league.
"On top of that, we still have our mid-level. And even if we don't sign someone like that now, very often there's players that come free during the season where if you were to have the advantage of having a mid-level you can add them. We have the trade exception, which can add someone (paid) up to $8.4 million. We have I think the best draft pick in the league for someone to trade for (the first-round pick acquired from the Pelicans). I think we have the best set of international rights held guys to either bring over or use in a trade.
"It's a pretty long list of ways to upgrade. And I think if you just take the roster as is, we feel like we're very similar as far as the quality of the team compared to game one last year with lot of ways to upgrade."
Last summer, the Rockets were counting on Jones or Motiejunas to start at power forward and Beverley, who became the starter, to get significant playing time at point guard. This season, the starting lineup is set with Trevor Ariza replacing Parsons. The bench so far is made up entirely of players that will have greater roles than they ever have.
"We obviously maybe have question marks at some of our bench positions, but I think last year we went into the season with question marks starting," Morey said. "We believe in our ability to evaluate talent. Last year we went in with Beverley in his first year as a starter, a big question mark at the four spot where Terrence and Donatas really stepped up. We're comfortable in our talent evaluation that the guys that we have will improve coming in and will step up and play well."
Omer Asik averaged 20 minutes in 48 games. Jeremy Lin averaged 29 minutes, 35 percent at shooting guard, though roughly half his playing time came at shooting guard in the games Beverley was healthy. Lin's departure leaves voids at two positions, but the Rockets hopes are that Canaan will step up at the point and Troy Daniels in Lin's backup shooting guard minutes.
Between them, they have played in just 27 regular-season NBA games, though both have shown some potential for the jobs after starring in the D-League last season, with Canaan exceling in summer league and Daniels in last season's playoff series.
Still, Lin and Asik were the only reserves Kevin McHale played regularly in the post-season. Though Morey said he came away from his cap-clearing in better shape than he would have guessed – with the pick acquired for Asik much better than the pick the Rockets lost to move Lin – McHale will have a fourth-consecutive season with a radically different rotation off the bench.
"People talk about Omer like we had him all year," Morey said. "Obviously, Omer is a very, very good player, but we played fine in that stretch we didn't have him (going 22-12) or we wouldn't have won 54 games. Jeremy contributed more than Omer, but guards are a little easier to replace. I feel good about the guys we brought in and their ability to step in across Canaan, Nick Johnson and Ish Smith and Troy Daniels. We just have a really good set of young players."
Still, players taken in the second round or not at all don't inspire public confidence as do proven veterans, even if Parsons was also an overshadowed player taken in the second-round.
As with last season, the Rockets have filled out their bench with players on minimum contracts. That left them very thin after Asik and Lin. But they believe that this season, that the move from Parsons to Ariza and the additions of Dorsey, Adrien and Alonzo Gee places a much-needed emphasis on defense and toughness.
"Last year was Dwight's first year with us. I think you get a better feel for what this team's strengths and weaknesses are. Last year, we were very potent offensively, but we felt we needed more balance. We have championships aspirations. To do that, you have to be effective on both ends. From our head coach down … we felt we got to get more defense, rebound better, tougher, more physical, more competitive and deeper. All our additions, starting with Trevor, there's a definite emphasis on rebounding and defense."
Offensively, the Rockets will have to make up for the loss of playmakers Parsons and Lin with shooters, hoping their style and an improved defense creates open shots that they will not be as equipped to create off the dribble.
That is still likely to fall short of what Morey thought he would have when he expected to land Bosh and keep Parsons. Since then, the narrative was for many set.
The Rockets might be compared not to what they were, but to what they could have been. If Morey is right and the Rockets are by the start of the playoffs better than they were in their most-recent first-round exit, the post-season could finally put the off-season to rest. That might be the only thing that can. |
The disappointing part about this summer is we had a chance to get better with max room available, and we struck out. I don't think we got any worse though. |
a dropoff from last year would be missing playoffs. So congrats on that one?
i don't see the point you're trying to make.
It's now essay worthy for houston to talk about making playoffs? it's only been one season since expecting rings no? isn't this year 2 of D12/Harden - the year you're supposed to win? |
They will probably still make playoffs but fall back to 7th seed and no chance at winning a playoff series let alone a title. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
McHale is a terrible coach. You have this DPOY center but decide to run an extreme up-tempo offense. Way to not play to your players' strengths, man. No offensive sets or plays whatsoever.
How people keep saying/thinking that he is a good coach is beyond me. Imo he may be worse than D'Antoni
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DimesnD
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Posts: 944
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To the OP. To call out Howard as a detriment to the recruitment process is the same as calling out Kobe. Kobe lost his best friend, his best team mate, because he's not a closer.
Kobe being kobe means in the negotiations he'll say do what best for the FA in question's family then second, what's best for Kobe. meaning, come to LA to help Kobe win rings, not coming to LA and be the main reason the team win rings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Luke
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 5004
Location: Deep Europe
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DimesnD wrote: | To the OP. To call out Howard as a detriment to the recruitment process is the same as calling out Kobe. Kobe lost his best friend, his best team mate, because he's not a closer.
Kobe being kobe means in the negotiations he'll say do what best for the FA in question's family then second, what's best for Kobe. meaning, come to LA to help Kobe win rings, not coming to LA and be the main reason the team win rings. |
Your firing at Kobe will not make Coward look better. Kobe is 36, has not played for a year and is already a living legend with 5 rings and so many other accomplishments that Howard can only dream to achieve.
Howard, instead, is still in his prime years , has a young superstar teammate, a team with a lot of assets, and a so called genius as gm, and cannot even deliver Jameer Nelson ,much less Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Lowry... Hell, he couldnt even keep the man who recruited him... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Telleris
Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chronicle wrote: | McHale is a terrible coach. You have this DPOY center but decide to run an extreme up-tempo offense. Way to not play to your players' strengths, man. No offensive sets or plays whatsoever.
How people keep saying/thinking that he is a good coach is beyond me. Imo he may be worse than D'Antoni |
The heck? An uptempo offense with the most athletic center in basketball is bad? Yeah maybe the focus of the offense should be slow half court based around Dwight's post game.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LHQ
Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 611
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Harden is, and has always been, a poor man's Ginobili.
Minus the defense, the clutch, the leadership and the lockeroom presence.
_________________
Hymn for the Red October
-Hans Zimmer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AshesToAshes wrote: | | i could probably find many including D12 himself, but that's just fine with me if you're saying houston fans were completely satisfied with last season and totally expected this rebuild POST D12 and harden to take their entire contracts. |
Yes, please find the Howard quotes that said we were winning a title this season. Being satisfied and predicting titles are two completely different things, but that was a good attempt to move the goalposts.
| AshesToAshes wrote: | | What's next? pick on grammar and typos? lol |
I'm fine with sticking with asking for support for the claims you make. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jackobe wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Dallas is going to be a better team than the Rockets next year. Remember last year the Mavs were only 5 games worse than the Rockets. With all the moves they made in free agency they are definitely going to be better as a team overall. |
They lost every contributor besides Dirk and Monta, signed an old Chandler, a good Parsons and got worse at PG. Their bench looks weaker than ours does. |
Old TC? dude is 31 years old.....
They lost VC (37), Marion (36) those two are what u called old. Replaced them with younger and perhaps better Parson (25) and RJ (34).
Same thing at center position...Samuel is 33, TC is 31 and way way way better.
They lost Calderon who is solid, but he only contributed 11ppg and 4.7 apg last year. You are calling Lin as someone easily replaceable and he averaged 12.5 ppg and 4 apg. They added Nelson who is same age as Calderon and still can produce under the right situation.
Harris, Felton, RJ, B.Wright off the bench are not great, but decent. Their starters got a lot better than last year. So they are definitely better than last year and most likely better than Houston. |
/endthread |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jackobe wrote: | | Old TC? dude is 31 years old..... |
Old as in body breaking down. Wade is 32. He is expected to miss time because his body is breaking down. Same with Chandler.
| Jackobe wrote: | | They lost VC (37), Marion (36) those two are what u called old. Replaced them with younger and perhaps better Parson (25) and RJ (34). |
They also lost their starting PG, and Carter was their main bench player. Like I said, their bench looks no better than ours. They upgraded at SF, downgraded at PG and traded for an injury prone center.
| Jackobe wrote: | | They lost Calderon who is solid, but he only contributed 11ppg and 4.7 apg last year. You are calling Lin as someone easily replaceable and he averaged 12.5 ppg and 4 apg. |
Calderon also shot 46%, 45% from behind the arc and only avg 1.3 turnovers in 31 minutes. If Lin was a dead-eye shooter that didn't turn the ball over then I wouldn't say he was easily replaceable.
| Jackobe wrote: | | They added Nelson who is same age as Calderon and still can produce under the right situation. |
The same Nelson that hasn't shot over 40% for the last two seasons? 
| Jackobe wrote: |
Harris, Felton, RJ, B.Wright off the bench are not great, but decent. Their starters got a lot better than last year. So they are definitely better than last year and most likely better than Houston. |
So in other words, they have no bench kinda like we have no bench? And I would rather have a starting lineup of Howard, Jones, Ariza, Harden and Beverly than Chandler, Dirk, Parsons, Ellis, Felton. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: |
They definitely got worse than last year after losing Parson, Asik, and Lin. |
No they didn't. Lin's production shouldn't be hard to replace and Asik gave us nothing for the majority of the season.
|
I obviously didn't watch Houston much during the season, but in the playoffs, Asik did give your team quite a bit. At least when he played. Which brings me to your greatest weakness, head coach. Take that from a guy whose team has suffered from the same weakness for a couple of seasons. |
Asik did give the team good production in the playoffs, mainly because of the opponent. It was one of the few Western teams where we could play him alongside Howard to give him extended minutes. But since the TT lineup won't fly against most teams and he wasn't going to get big minutes backing up Harden, he had to go.
Asik's overall team impact is very overstated here. Not because he isn't good, but because of how often we could get him minutes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Luke wrote: | | Howard, instead, is still in his prime years , has a young superstar teammate, a team with a lot of assets, and a so called genius as gm, and cannot even deliver Jameer Nelson (took more $$),much less Lebron (was only leaving for Cleveland), Melo (took more $$...even your extra $$ wasn't good enough), Bosh (took more $$), Lowry (took more $$)... Hell, he couldnt even keep the man who recruited him... |
Notice the trend? Yawn.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SirRalph1980
Sixth Man
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Rockets will be lucky to make the playoffs this year. Dwight is going to opt out at the end of the year and walk. Mchale will get fired. Morey however despite another treadmill year will persevere. Hopefully he will understand the value of good coaching before that team implodes. I am a fan of his and he has brought a lot of good things to basketball but I dont see this ending well for him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jackobe
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 4466
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: | | Old TC? dude is 31 years old..... |
Old as in body breaking down. Wade is 32. He is expected to miss time because his body is breaking down. Same with Chandler. |
Chandler had different types of injuries than Wade. Plus Wade played so many games in the past 4 seasons and and he crashes down to the floor every 2 minutes. Chandler doesn't play like Wade and just because he got injured last year that doesn't means he is breaking down. Two seasons before he joined the Mavs champs team he played 45 games in one season and 57 games in another, was his body breaking down then too? He still rebounded and blocked as many shots as he used to last season, he hasn't significantly lost athleticism like Wade.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: | | They lost VC (37), Marion (36) those two are what u called old. Replaced them with younger and perhaps better Parson (25) and RJ (34). |
They also lost their starting PG, and Carter was their main bench player. Like I said, their bench looks no better than ours. They upgraded at SF, downgraded at PG and traded for an injury prone center. |
Calderon, Marion, VC, Dalembert << Nelson, Parson, RJ, Chandler
Chandler is clear upgrade over Dalembert, not even a comparison.
VC was solid last year, it's not like he is irreplaceable, RJ can put up similar production and shooting.
Parson is another clear upgrade over Marion, not even close.
Their only down grade was at PG position, but it's not like Calderon had an all star season. Calderon didn't even get his usual assists number last year.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: | | They lost Calderon who is solid, but he only contributed 11ppg and 4.7 apg last year. You are calling Lin as someone easily replaceable and he averaged 12.5 ppg and 4 apg. |
Calderon also shot 46%, 45% from behind the arc and only avg 1.3 turnovers in 31 minutes. If Lin was a dead-eye shooter that didn't turn the ball over then I wouldn't say he was easily replaceable. |
Calderon can shoot and pass better but Lin can drive and defends better. They are different types of players, the point is both are solid contributor to their team. So calling one easy to replace and the other hard to replace is laughable.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: | | They added Nelson who is same age as Calderon and still can produce under the right situation. |
The same Nelson that hasn't shot over 40% for the last two seasons? |
Didn't u realize something in ur statement? "Last two seasons" ya, Coward left Orlando two season ago and since he left Nelson's shooting went down because he was asked to do more than he normally does. Also no one on the Magic commends double team for him to get open shots. Obviously on the Mavs there are players like Dirk and Ellis can commend double teams and all Nelson has to do now is shoot. That's why I said under the right situation he will be able to produce again.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: |
Harris, Felton, RJ, B.Wright off the bench are not great, but decent. Their starters got a lot better than last year. So they are definitely better than last year and most likely better than Houston. |
So in other words, they have no bench kinda like we have no bench? And I would rather have a starting lineup of Howard, Jones, Ariza, Harden and Beverly than Chandler, Dirk, Parsons, Ellis, Felton. |
RJ can provide similar production as VC last year.
Wright is solid, put 9 ppg with 68% FG last season.
Harris and Felton are inconsistent, but Harris is a former all-star and last season he was injured for half of year. Started to look better in the end, played pretty well off the bench in the playoff.
Houston have inexperienced or scrubs on the bench right now.
Troy Daniels can be solid, but had very small sample size last yr, so that remains to be seen.
Donatas who is good in SL but couldn't do much in the season.
Then rest of the Rockets bench are even bigger scrubs....
So no...Mavs' bench are better than Houston's.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Luke
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 5004
Location: Deep Europe
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Luke wrote: | | Howard, instead, is still in his prime years , has a young superstar teammate, a team with a lot of assets, and a so called genius as gm, and cannot even deliver Jameer Nelson (took more $$),much less Lebron (was only leaving for Cleveland), Melo [b](took more $$...even your extra $$ wasn't good enough), Bosh [b](took more $$), Lowry [b](took more $$)... Hell, he couldnt even keep the man who recruited him... |
Notice the trend? Yawn.... |
-Lebron : liked Irving and Cavs assets + rookie coach+ Cavs ownership and front office ( everybody and their mothers know how much they are bad) more than Howard +Harden+Parsons+Beverley +genius gm+ Houston's assets+ Mchale+ Houston ownership.
Anyone still believe at the home BS for Lebron ? If he wanted to return home for good, he would have signed a longer deal...
-Melo : he obviously chose the money, but he had Chicago ahead of Houston . Chicago with question mark Rose and less money to offer was better to Melo than Howard+ Harden+ Parsons+genius gm+ Houston assets... Also , with no income state taxes, your money could have been good enough for Melo , if he considered Houston a lock to contend.
-Bosh liked Miami more than Houston+Howard+Harden+Parsons+genius gm ...( the money was still max and Miami is not considered a contender anymore).
-Lowry didn't take the max : you could have given him the same deal, and you could have signed another player + Parsons.
-Jameer Nelson signed for the room exception . Do you really think Houston didn't have this money ?
Bottom line , Houston could have been the most attractive free agent destination with two so called superstars, nice role players, Parsons' contract, lot of assets, genius gm, owner willing to spend, max slot available, no income taxes...they had the complete package.
What went wrong ?
My opinion is that Howard is one of the biggest reasons Houston has failed to improve ( the other is the simple fact that Morey is overrated). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jackobe wrote: | | Chandler had different types of injuries than Wade. |
In the last six seasons Chandler has played 55, 66, 62, 74, 51 and 45 games. Are you arguing that he is not an injury prone center?
| Jackobe wrote: | | Calderon, Marion, VC, Dalembert << Nelson, Parson, RJ, Chandler |
That's debatable. Either way, their starting unit is not better than ours and they have no bench.
| Jackobe wrote: | | Calderon can shoot and pass better but Lin can drive and defends better. |
You obviously haven't watched much of Lin. I'll ask you what you think about his defense and him overall at midseason.
| Jackobe wrote: | | Didn't u realize something in ur statement? "Last two seasons" ya, Coward left Orlando two season ago and since he left Nelson's shooting went down because he was asked to do more than he normally does. Also no one on the Magic commends double team for him to get open shots. Obviously on the Mavs there are players like Dirk and Ellis can commend double teams and all Nelson has to do now is shoot. That's why I said under the right situation he will be able to produce again. |
Howard leaving shouldn't cause a career 44% shooter to shoot under 40%. He's also only played 68, 56 and 57 games over the past 3 seasons. Nelson isn't that good anymore.
| Jackobe wrote: | | Houston have inexperienced or scrubs on the bench right now. |
And Dallas has what....old scrubs? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jackobe
Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 4466
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: |
In the last six seasons Chandler has played 55, 66, 62, 74, 51 and 45 games. Are you arguing that he is not an injury prone center? |
Injury prone and premature declined like Wade are two totally different things. TC is a injury prone, but he had injuries here and there, he isn't Bynum or Wade. So u can't really discount his impact for the team.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | That's debatable. Either way, their starting unit is not better than ours and they have no bench. |
Your starting units are better...that's also debatable.
But we know Chandler and Dirk are two guys with championship experiences. While Dwight and Harden are two championship chokers.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | You obviously haven't watched much of Lin. I'll ask you what you think about his defense and him overall at midseason. |
Obviously u haven't watch Calderon all his career.....lol
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Howard leaving shouldn't cause a career 44% shooter to shoot under 40%. He's also only played 68, 56 and 57 games over the past 3 seasons. Nelson isn't that good anymore. |
Of course losing Howard had a lot to do with his shooting % go down. Do you really think a shooter wouldn't benefit from wide open shots???
He went from shooting open 3s to forcing up bad 3s....of course his % went down. He doesn't need to force anything with the Mavs.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | And Dallas has what....old scrubs? |
Already pointed out Wright and RJ two solid role players. That's 2 more solid players than Houston off the bench.
And ya... I would rather have 31 yrs old former all star scrub Devin Harris than Isaiah Canaan
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Luke wrote: | -Lebron : liked Irving and Cavs assets + rookie coach+ Cavs ownership and front office ( everybody and their mothers know how much they are bad) more than Howard +Harden+Parsons+Beverley +genius gm+ Houston's assets+ Mchale+ Houston ownership.
Anyone still believe at the home BS for Lebron ? If he wanted to return home for good, he would have signed a longer deal... |
Cleveland was the one place he could leave for and not get flamed. He didn't sign a longer deal because the cap may increase significantly. Next....
| Luke wrote: |
-Melo : he obviously chose the money, but he had Chicago ahead of Houston. |
At the end of the day he went where he could make the most money. That wasn't Houston. Next....
| Luke wrote: | | -Bosh liked Miami more than Houston+Howard+Harden+Parsons+genius gm ...( the money was still max and Miami is not considered a contender anymore). |
Bosh stayed with the team that could pay him the most money. Next....
| Luke wrote: | | -Lowry didn't take the max : you could have given him the same deal, and you could have signed another player + Parsons. |
We didn't offer him the same $12M deal, and couldn't give him the same % of raises. Next....
| Luke wrote: | | -Jameer Nelson signed for the room exception . Do you really think Houston didn't have this money? |
Nelson also got a player option for the 2nd season, which Morey doesn't like to give out. He got more guaranteed money. Next....
| Luke wrote: | Bottom line , Houston could have been the most attractive free agent destination with two so called superstars, nice role players, Parsons' contract, lot of assets, genius gm, owner willing to spend, max slot available, no income taxes...they had the complete package.
What went wrong? |
Guys took more money in other places, as I've explained twice already. Pretty basic and quite typical. The only free agent that took less to go somewhere else was Mike Miller. You may be able to add Ray Allen to that list. And its not like they aren't joining the best player in the world in an easier conference or anything....
| Luke wrote: | | My opinion is that Howard is one of the biggest reasons Houston has failed to improve ( the other is the simple fact that Morey is overrated). |
We are all entitled to our opinion. The facts still show nearly everyone picked more money over Houston...and in most cases significantly more money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LHQ
Starting Rotation
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 611
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LOL, can't believe some people actually fall for that Lebron letter crap. But, TBH, I'm of the opinion that if you play in the East you are overrated anyway.
_________________
Hymn for the Red October
-Hans Zimmer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
