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xX KaoTiK Xx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| On paper YES....On the court NO!! |
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waldzell
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Kava wrote: | The one thing I like about the roster is that some of these guys have been undervalued or under-appreciated and that may mean they play with a serious chip on their shoulder.
I like how all these guys have something to prove:
Lin - Is he ready for a starting gig and to finally run a team?
Kobe - Can he come back to form and stay healthy for a full season? Can he be a team player and lead the young guys?
Boozer - Getting amnestied must feel like getting tossed to the side...this guy may have an excellent year.
Nash - Always hurt he's got to feel like he's stolen money at this point from the Lakers organization. Everyone is counting him out. Including me.
Hill - Is he really worth all the dough?
Clarkson - He's gotta feel disrespected for taken so late in the draft considering his skill set.
Randall - Can he live up to the hype?
Wes/Xavier/Swaggy - All 3 with tremendous 'UPSIDE' never fully realized. Is this the year?
Davis - He's hungry to play. Had a nice role for Toronto and got lost in Memphis.
As a fan I am satisfied at what could be. During the rebuilding process, competing for the 7th/8th seed is exactly where we should be.
There are no guarantees. We've seen that with Payton/Malone experiment as well as with the Dwight debacle.
I just want to see a Laker team compete - That may seem like too much to ask - but I can't stand watching a game and see guys dog it on the defensive end.
Everyone on this team has something to play for including the coach. Should be fun to watch. |
as the coach said, defense is something you can control every night... it just takes heart, effort, desire...
a lot of chipped shoulders and players ready to prove doubters wrong on this team. also think the coach will have just as much desire to shut-up the naysayers...
should make for a compelling season regardless of the outcome! |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| xX KaoTiK Xx wrote: | | On paper YES....On the court NO!! |
?
Can you 'splain? |
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Shaqman55
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Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 315
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:11 am Post subject: |
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While the FO has done well to pick up a lot of cheap serviceable players to make up partially for the Kobe godfather contract, still too many ifs...
1. Kobe... What kind of impact will he have?? Hasn't played meaningful basketball in over a year... Coming off of a typically catastrophic injury that ends careers... He's 36. Will he miraculously play at an elite level? Will he become a glorified role player? I'm guessing in between; most likely he'll play at a 2nd tier allstar level... But as constructed, this team needs superstar Kobe to make noise in the West... Right now that's a BIG IF.
2. Defense: no one on the roster can be mistaken to be a top level defender... Now Byron Scott has been saying all of the right things regarding team defense and emphasizing the defensive side of the ball. It's a MUCH welcomed mentality especially after a year and a half of complete ignorance by D'antoni's regime. However it's one thing to say and a completely different thing to do.
3. Byron Scott: he doesn't have a glowing track record but he did take a team to the finals... He is a polarizing guy though and hasn't proven that he can hold on to everyone's ear and get people on his side. He's got that zero tolerance attitude just like Pat Riley, but does he have the Ninja skills that Riley has to tap the right buttons in his players? Big If
4. JR30: can he play at ROY level ? Will he get PT? Best case scenario he's rookie of the year and plays at a borderline allstar level.
5. Nash. How many games will he play and will he make an impact?
6. PF logjam ... Will they make it work and get the most out if everyone?
7. Will we get Linsanity or just plain Lin?
Too many unknowns. If just a few of them break in the negative direction, it means we're mediocre at best.
It is what it is, this is rebuilding
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RIP Kobe and Gigi <333 |
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Wilkes52
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2415
Location: Far from home
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I'm not wild about this team. I'm not wild about a poorer rerun of last season either, and that's what I'm anticipating.
As a reading list of talent, there's no excitement there. There's not enough history among the individuals for team defense among them to suggest much excitement.
There's a thirty-seven year old star coming back from severe injury, who's likely to be the best player on court and the most susceptible for injury. That makes me uncomfortable, not satisfied. The drop off in talent between Kobe and the next best guy is as steep and deep a fall as I can remember since 2005. Ouch, count me as not satisfied with the roster nor with the new coach (.444 career coaching record).
"Leftovers" are not my idea of Laker basketball, not by a long shot. This is year five of the rebuild, days since our last visit to the Western Conference Finals. Yipes ! |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Shaqman55 wrote: | While the FO has done well to pick up a lot of cheap serviceable players to make up partially for the Kobe godfather contract, still too many ifs...
1. Kobe... What kind of impact will he have?? Hasn't played meaningful basketball in over a year... Coming off of a typically catastrophic injury that ends careers... He's 36. Will he miraculously play at an elite level? Will he become a glorified role player? I'm guessing in between; most likely he'll play at a 2nd tier allstar level... But as constructed, this team needs superstar Kobe to make noise in the West... Right now that's a BIG IF.
2. Defense: no one on the roster can be mistaken to be a top level defender... Now Byron Scott has been saying all of the right things regarding team defense and emphasizing the defensive side of the ball. It's a MUCH welcomed mentality especially after a year and a half of complete ignorance by D'antoni's regime. However it's one thing to say and a completely different thing to do.
3. Byron Scott: he doesn't have a glowing track record but he did take a team to the finals... He is a polarizing guy though and hasn't proven that he can hold on to everyone's ear and get people on his side. He's got that zero tolerance attitude just like Pat Riley, but does he have the Ninja skills that Riley has to tap the right buttons in his players? Big If
4. JR30: can he play at ROY level ? Will he get PT? Best case scenario he's rookie of the year and plays at a borderline allstar level.
5. Nash. How many games will he play and will he make an impact?
6. PF logjam ... Will they make it work and get the most out if everyone?
7. Will we get Linsanity or just plain Lin?
Too many unknowns. If just a few of them break in the negative direction, it means we're mediocre at best.
It is what it is, this is rebuilding |
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ined1h&s=8#.U9kVtmMXLnl
Randle will get more time at SF. |
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kwase
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 3069
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| This team doesn't have a core!!! Just a bunch of guys Jim/Mitch had no choice but to sign to fill the roster. A 10 year old could have put this team together. They just got lucky nobody outbid them for Boozer...Lucky B. Scott is loyal to them (3 interviews for a guy you've known almost 30 years is just stupid)...Lucky Jerry West drafted Kobe...and lucky Boston didn't pick Randle (Although Smart isn't a bad choice either. Basically they just took what landed in their lap. They didn't succeed at anything this off-season! |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | This team doesn't have a core!!! Just a bunch of guys Jim/Mitch had no choice but to sign to fill the roster. A 10 year old could have put this team together. They just got lucky nobody outbid them for Boozer...Lucky B. Scott is loyal to them (3 interviews for a guy you've known almost 30 years is just stupid)...Lucky Jerry West drafted Kobe...and lucky Boston didn't pick Randle (Although Smart isn't a bad choice either. Basically they just took what landed in their lap. They didn't succeed at anything this off-season! |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kava wrote: | The one thing I like about the roster is that some of these guys have been undervalued or under-appreciated and that may mean they play with a serious chip on their shoulder.
I like how all these guys have something to prove:
Lin - Is he ready for a starting gig and to finally run a team?
Kobe - Can he come back to form and stay healthy for a full season? Can he be a team player and lead the young guys?
Boozer - Getting amnestied must feel like getting tossed to the side...this guy may have an excellent year.
Nash - Always hurt he's got to feel like he's stolen money at this point from the Lakers organization. Everyone is counting him out. Including me.
Hill - Is he really worth all the dough?
Clarkson - He's gotta feel disrespected for taken so late in the draft considering his skill set.
Randall - Can he live up to the hype?
Wes/Xavier/Swaggy - All 3 with tremendous 'UPSIDE' never fully realized. Is this the year?
Davis - He's hungry to play. Had a nice role for Toronto and got lost in Memphis.
As a fan I am satisfied at what could be. During the rebuilding process, competing for the 7th/8th seed is exactly where we should be.
There are no guarantees. We've seen that with Payton/Malone experiment as well as with the Dwight debacle.
I just want to see a Laker team compete - That may seem like too much to ask - but I can't stand watching a game and see guys dog it on the defensive end.
Everyone on this team has something to play for including the coach. Should be fun to watch. |
AGREED!
I'm gonna sit back and enjoy the show  |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | This team doesn't have a core!!! Just a bunch of guys Jim/Mitch had no choice but to sign to fill the roster. A 10 year old could have put this team together. They just got lucky nobody outbid them for Boozer...Lucky B. Scott is loyal to them (3 interviews for a guy you've known almost 30 years is just stupid)...Lucky Jerry West drafted Kobe...and lucky Boston didn't pick Randle (Although Smart isn't a bad choice either. Basically they just took what landed in their lap. They didn't succeed at anything this off-season! |
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Sort of a 2.0 version of last season. 
PS: nothing could be as bad as last year. |
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NomisR
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| swishing wrote: | | stewjoe wrote: |
If you disagree, then please be specific. Tell us which 8 western teams will have a worse record than us this year. |
I think the first 15 games of this coming season would pretty much set the Lakers'' ceiling. On paper, you are probably right that Lakers don't have a prayers chance given how strong the West has become. The positive I see is that there are a lot of unknowns here in the roster. If this roster was a caricature of last year without Gasol, even with a recovered Kobe, it is hard to imagine it gaining additional 20-25 games necessary to make the playoffs..
But Lakers has the surprised factor. Oddsmakers tend to be conservative when dealing with unknowns.
I believe there are enough unknown to make Lakers the dark horse.
It's hard for me to believe, like some here do, that we are in tanking mode and just waiting for Kobe to live out his twilight years and clear his cap before starting a new chapter.
Because the more I learn about this roster, the more I believe tanking is out of the question for this group. This group seem to have a very clear goal.
The most dangerous man is one that has nothing to lose.. Seems, this is literally do or die from coach Scottie to many players
Last season felt like everyone is just going thru the motions, there is really nothing to prove for veterans like Gasol and Nash as they pretty much gave up on the season and their coach. With no Kobe in sight, the rookies were more in experimenting mode and had no clear sense of direction or goal.
It just feels like this roster, everyone has something to prove and seems everyone is willing to put in 110% effort to do it. You also have extremely hard workers and veterans with leadership steering this ship....
Don't discount that Lakers were just contenders 2 seasons ago. Yes we lost Gasol and D12. But even then, the urgency and focus is different. Given their talent, the chemistry wasn't there to maximize it. But they still won enough games for the playoffs.
I know some of you may think it is stupid to compare to a roster that had D12. But I'm just saying we don't need to be that talented if enough effort and urgency/focus is in place. With the West being so competitive, you don't have to win 50 games, you just have to win more games. With luck, we can steal an eighth seed if they top teams beat each other up enough and lower the overall winning ratio required. We just have to make sure we beat the East enough time to keep us competitive and let teams like Rockets lose to many bad teams they should beat (they did this many times last season).
Remember Kobe was #10 in PER (Higher than Harden) and still one of the best in his position just 2 seasons ago. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Kobe had ample time to recover and there is high probability that barring no other injuries, even at his age, he can still be one of the top threats in the West.
Then we have Boozer who can kind of make up for Gasol. He may not be as good as him but given how Gasol had on-court issues with MD and his production wasn't exactly stellar, I'll take a next best thing in a starving Boozer on a well focused team.
Seems like there are no ego issues getting in the way.
Swaggy and Hill can only improve...
Then there is Randle. Possibly the X factor. Depending how fast he learn the ropes with Clarkson. But they looked pretty good in the SL. It's not inconceivable that they will fill any holes that is required to make Lakers as much a competitive team as 2 seasons ago.
Finally there is the Lin factor. Lin has shown he doesn't need superstars to help his team win. Everyone knows the NYC story, but there were also numerous games in HOU that Lin was very capable of carrying the point (with Harden injured) to a well-fought win.
So I think if Lakers plays team basketball and play it the best they can, and given a little bit of luck, teams in the West may just shoot themselves in the foot and give us the #8 seed on a silver platter..
Remember 2 seasons ago when Lakers almost didn't make the 8th seed until series of bad loses by our competing teams.. |
I think this pretty much sums it up for me. Having grown up watching the showtime Lakers, and then going down to the Sedale Threatt Lakers, and then the FO bringing together the Lake Show turning it into the Kobe/Shaq 3 peat.. and then going through the gut wrenching Smush Parker era, I think this current roster as is right now is at least better than the Sedale Threatt/Post Magic and Smush Parker Lakers. Hell, compared to the starting lineup last year, it's an improved team with a slight drop at the 5 position.
But given that practically all the rotational players were well over paid during this off season, we're did just fine. There not that many players out there that could be had at a reasonable price for the Lakers anyways. I guess you can consider Lance Stephenson, but the downside may outweight the upside. Eric Bledsoe, I would take Lin over him at this point.. same with Isaiah Thomas.
And lets not forget that the CBA is coming up for a vote in a couple of years and will likely be voted down for something that would likely be in the Lakers' favor. So basically, all the moves this season is keeping flexibility in a couple of years while keeping this team competitive and entertaining. And barring injuries, i think we'll be fine. |
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Dave20
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't call it a core, we have guys who can score but not many defenders or any two way players on the team. I'm excited to see the rookies play but that's about it. I won't be satisfied with this roster until next summer if we can sign a combination of Marc/Dragic or Jordan/Jackson. I don't think this team will be any good until we get a rim protector and a PG. |
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bandiger
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Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 12555
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| There are like 4 players I want to see this season. Lin, Randle, Clarkson, Kelly. Thats about it. |
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Scoffs
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Joined: 12 Aug 2001
Posts: 875
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm satisfied. We're not going to go from bottom feeder to contender in 1 season, but we've made a huge improvement with Randle and Lin. I don't know much about Davis, but anything is better than our frontcourt last season. I'm excited to see the chemistry develop between Randle, Clarkson, and Lin. Get Durant when he's available and we're golden. |
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EddieJonesss
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 606
Location: 32 miles from the Staples Center
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| bandiger wrote: | | There are like 4 players I want to see this season. Lin, Randle, Clarkson, Kelly. Thats about it. |
How did Kobe not make this list? |
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moonriver24
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Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 15265
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I will call it a day until we get the "brow." Antony Davis is the "duncan" that lakers need to win in the long run. It's a pipe dream tho.
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Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples |
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stewjoe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:39 am Post subject: |
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I think the "Sedale Threat" and "Smush Parker" teams are actually going to be tough to beat.
The only year Sedale led us in scoring, we had Worthy, Byron, Perkins , Vlade, Elden, Christie, Peeler, etc. that is way more quality starters than we have now (albeit not a #1 like Kobe). Point differential was still quite a bit better than ours last year.
The Smush team had Kobe at the apex of his skills us a better #2 in Lamar than anyone on our current roster. Young Devean, Bynum, etc. not as good depth, but the top is much better. We actually won high 40's that year.
The current team has only one player who is above average as a defender (Davis), with only Johnson as an even average defender. The others are below average.
The notion that Lin (who the Rockets benched and then had to pay us to take) is somehow am asset who is better than bledsoe just doesn't have factual support. If he was really an asset, he wouldn't have required a first rounder to get someone to take him. He is an asset like Luke Walton was or D Fish was at the end. Also guys we had to pay someone to take. He is not part of our future unless he takes a $2-3m deal next year as a backup. He is going to struggle playing with Kobe for the same reason he struggled with Harden--he can't play off the ball because he doesn't have a catch and shoot game at all. He needs the ball in his hands.
I too am excited about aspects of the team: another year of Kobe, Randle, Ed Davis, possible development of Xavier. But this is far from a complete team or a contender. |
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AirShooter
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Posts: 456
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| stewjoe wrote: | The current team has only one player who is above average as a defender (Davis), with only Johnson as an even average defender. The others are below average.
The notion that Lin (who the Rockets benched and then had to pay us to take) is somehow am asset who is better than bledsoe just doesn't have factual support. If he was really an asset, he wouldn't have required a first rounder to get someone to take him. He is an asset like Luke Walton was or D Fish was at the end. Also guys we had to pay someone to take. He is not part of our future unless he takes a $2-3m deal next year as a backup. He is going to struggle playing with Kobe for the same reason he struggled with Harden--he can't play off the ball because he doesn't have a catch and shoot game at all. He needs the ball in his hands. |
You're making a lot of factual errors here.
Jeremy Lin is in the top 20 overall (not just among PGs) in catch and shoot.
http://i.imgur.com/1D5i53W.png
http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/26jw8y/the_best_catch_and_shoot_players_this_year/
The reason Beverley starts over Lin is not because Beverley is definitively a better player, but because he fits the lineup more. Beverley off the bench as sixth man was unable to run the second unit or create for his teammates or provide the scoring punch necessary. Beverley is needed defensively in the first unit to cover for Harden's atrocious lackadaisical defense. So because Beverley's defense is needed to cover for Harden, and because Beverley can't run the 2nd unit, they moved Lin to backup. On any other team, Lin would probably start over Beverley.
I think the overexposure and hype during Linsanity lead to Lin being overrated to an extent. But ironically, his stint in Houston has now lead to him being underrated in many quarters.
There's been a lot of misinformation and misconceptions floating around regarding Lin. Such as your misconception regarding his catch-and-shoot ability. Hopefully, the data and links I provided above can help remedy that.
As for Lin's defense, while he's not a super defender (nor do I think he will ever be), his defense has proven serviceable and certainly not below average, and was cited by Byron Scott as a strength that flustered Scott when he was coaching against Lin and attempting to exploit the hearsay that Lin is weak on defense, only to have that that tidbit proven wrong during game time in Scott's offensive schemes against the Rockets. There are videos and stats floating around the internet, like that great job Lin did against Lillard to hold Lillard scoreless in the 4th quarter till they subbed Lin out in the final seconds of the game.
And Lin has proven that he can play with another ball dominant player, even if it doesn't allow him to put up Linsanity numbers (he won't, and shouldn't, have the same volume). Don't look at the Linsanity stats or the period under D'Antoni when Melo came back. Look at the Melo-Lin numbers under Woodson, when they were blowing out teams and able to rest all starters in the 4th quarter -- Melo got his, but Lin put up decent numbers as well. Also look at the first season Lin played with the Rockets, where he was the starting PG playing next to Harden of a team that got into the playoffs despite everyone assuming they would be in the lottery even after getting Harden. Pay special attention to the first couple of games with Harden, before McHale implemented changes in the offensive scheme, where Harden and Lin played well together without getting in each other's way. It was only after McHale made his changes and made Harden the PG that Lin and Harden started having more trouble.
So Lin can definitely play with another ball dominant player (as long as Lin can be PG) or play off-ball in a catch and shoot role. The one area where I think is off-ball play is a bit lacking is the cutting. He still needs to refine that and know when to cut more. But his off-ball catch-and-shoot is fine, it's in the top 20 overall. Hitting 40% on catch-and-shoot 3pters.
As for why Lin needed a pick to be moved, that's due to the contract structure. Morey's poison pill to pry Lin from the Knicks meant that Lin would be paid $15M this season, despite only counting for $8M on the cap. That's not a problem for the cash-flushed Lakers, but it's a consideration for other owners. If Lin's salary matched his cap hit at $8M (or maybe even a tad less like last season), he would be a lot easier to move. The pick is included to help move Lin not because he sucks, but because of the backloaded poisonpill in his contract.
I do agree with you that this roster has a long way to go before being a contender. But Lin was a bit over rated during Linsanity because of the hype, and he's now ironically underrated (despite whatever media exposure he still attracts) because of his Houston stint and misuse under McHale. Don't buy the general canards being pushed, especially by Rockets fans who would probably not want to be seen as being on the losing end of a trade with the Lakers, that Lin sucks. Look at the data and deeper into the gameplay and you'll find many of your assumptions wrong (such as your assertion that he doesn't have a catch-and-shoot game).
Anyway, Lin is in purple and gold now, so we'll just have to see how he plays. He'll show us one way or the other. But time to root for the Lakers now, which means rooting for Lin. Let's hope he proves the critics wrong. Those who haven't been paying attention and swallowing the misconceptions, like assuming he has no catch-and-shoot game, are going to be wrong. And Laker fans are going to reap the benefit of that when he surprises opponents who buy into those lies, just like how Byron Scott was surprised when coaching against Lin and erroneously assuming he sucked on defense.
Lin is not a superstar. But he's got talent. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| Scoffs wrote: | | I'm satisfied. We're not going to go from bottom feeder to contender in 1 season, but we've made a huge improvement with Randle and Lin. I don't know much about Davis, but anything is better than our frontcourt last season. I'm excited to see the chemistry develop between Randle, Clarkson, and Lin. Get Durant when he's available and we're golden. |
"IT IS WHAT IT IS"  |
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King beef
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Posts: 356
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:44 am Post subject: |
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The original question is a little misleading. There is no core to this roster. This roster is made up of temporary plug ins and cast offs. I would even hesitate to call Kobe, 36 and coming off two season ending surgeries, a part of the core.
TO be totally real about the situation, if management is saying there is a core to this team, then management is conning you. When you could say there might be two players to return next year (Kobe and Randle), then you dont have a core. |
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greenfrog
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Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| AirShooter wrote: | | stewjoe wrote: | The current team has only one player who is above average as a defender (Davis), with only Johnson as an even average defender. The others are below average.
The notion that Lin (who the Rockets benched and then had to pay us to take) is somehow am asset who is better than bledsoe just doesn't have factual support. If he was really an asset, he wouldn't have required a first rounder to get someone to take him. He is an asset like Luke Walton was or D Fish was at the end. Also guys we had to pay someone to take. He is not part of our future unless he takes a $2-3m deal next year as a backup. He is going to struggle playing with Kobe for the same reason he struggled with Harden--he can't play off the ball because he doesn't have a catch and shoot game at all. He needs the ball in his hands. |
You're making a lot of factual errors here.
Jeremy Lin is in the top 20 overall (not just among PGs) in catch and shoot.
http://i.imgur.com/1D5i53W.png
http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/26jw8y/the_best_catch_and_shoot_players_this_year/
The reason Beverley starts over Lin is not because Beverley is definitively a better player, but because he fits the lineup more. Beverley off the bench as sixth man was unable to run the second unit or create for his teammates or provide the scoring punch necessary. Beverley is needed defensively in the first unit to cover for Harden's atrocious lackadaisical defense. So because Beverley's defense is needed to cover for Harden, and because Beverley can't run the 2nd unit, they moved Lin to backup. On any other team, Lin would probably start over Beverley.
I think the overexposure and hype during Linsanity lead to Lin being overrated to an extent. But ironically, his stint in Houston has now lead to him being underrated in many quarters.
There's been a lot of misinformation and misconceptions floating around regarding Lin. Such as your misconception regarding his catch-and-shoot ability. Hopefully, the data and links I provided above can help remedy that.
As for Lin's defense, while he's not a super defender (nor do I think he will ever be), his defense has proven serviceable and certainly not below average, and was cited by Byron Scott as a strength that flustered Scott when he was coaching against Lin and attempting to exploit the hearsay that Lin is weak on defense, only to have that that tidbit proven wrong during game time in Scott's offensive schemes against the Rockets. There are videos and stats floating around the internet, like that great job Lin did against Lillard to hold Lillard scoreless in the 4th quarter till they subbed Lin out in the final seconds of the game.
And Lin has proven that he can play with another ball dominant player, even if it doesn't allow him to put up Linsanity numbers (he won't, and shouldn't, have the same volume). Don't look at the Linsanity stats or the period under D'Antoni when Melo came back. Look at the Melo-Lin numbers under Woodson, when they were blowing out teams and able to rest all starters in the 4th quarter -- Melo got his, but Lin put up decent numbers as well. Also look at the first season Lin played with the Rockets, where he was the starting PG playing next to Harden of a team that got into the playoffs despite everyone assuming they would be in the lottery even after getting Harden. Pay special attention to the first couple of games with Harden, before McHale implemented changes in the offensive scheme, where Harden and Lin played well together without getting in each other's way. It was only after McHale made his changes and made Harden the PG that Lin and Harden started having more trouble.
So Lin can definitely play with another ball dominant player (as long as Lin can be PG) or play off-ball in a catch and shoot role. The one area where I think is off-ball play is a bit lacking is the cutting. He still needs to refine that and know when to cut more. But his off-ball catch-and-shoot is fine, it's in the top 20 overall. Hitting 40% on catch-and-shoot 3pters.
As for why Lin needed a pick to be moved, that's due to the contract structure. Morey's poison pill to pry Lin from the Knicks meant that Lin would be paid $15M this season, despite only counting for $8M on the cap. That's not a problem for the cash-flushed Lakers, but it's a consideration for other owners. If Lin's salary matched his cap hit at $8M (or maybe even a tad less like last season), he would be a lot easier to move. The pick is included to help move Lin not because he sucks, but because of the backloaded poisonpill in his contract.
I do agree with you that this roster has a long way to go before being a contender. But Lin was a bit over rated during Linsanity because of the hype, and he's now ironically underrated (despite whatever media exposure he still attracts) because of his Houston stint and misuse under McHale. Don't buy the general canards being pushed, especially by Rockets fans who would probably not want to be seen as being on the losing end of a trade with the Lakers, that Lin sucks. Look at the data and deeper into the gameplay and you'll find many of your assumptions wrong (such as your assertion that he doesn't have a catch-and-shoot game).
Anyway, Lin is in purple and gold now, so we'll just have to see how he plays. He'll show us one way or the other. But time to root for the Lakers now, which means rooting for Lin. Let's hope he proves the critics wrong. Those who haven't been paying attention and swallowing the misconceptions, like assuming he has no catch-and-shoot game, are going to be wrong. And Laker fans are going to reap the benefit of that when he surprises opponents who buy into those lies, just like how Byron Scott was surprised when coaching against Lin and erroneously assuming he sucked on defense.
Lin is not a superstar. But he's got talent. |
Interesting shooting graphic... Using 10 feet as the qualifier is a bit generous to me though. I'd love to see it on 3's. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | epak wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | This team doesn't have a core!!! Just a bunch of guys Jim/Mitch had no choice but to sign to fill the roster. A 10 year old could have put this team together. They just got lucky nobody outbid them for Boozer...Lucky B. Scott is loyal to them (3 interviews for a guy you've known almost 30 years is just stupid)...Lucky Jerry West drafted Kobe...and lucky Boston didn't pick Randle (Although Smart isn't a bad choice either. Basically they just took what landed in their lap. They didn't succeed at anything this off-season! |
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Sort of a 2.0 version of last season.
PS: nothing could be as bad as last year. |
If not for the unprecedented amount of injuries, not even last year would have been as bad as last year. |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54623
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | epak wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | This team doesn't have a core!!! Just a bunch of guys Jim/Mitch had no choice but to sign to fill the roster. A 10 year old could have put this team together. They just got lucky nobody outbid them for Boozer...Lucky B. Scott is loyal to them (3 interviews for a guy you've known almost 30 years is just stupid)...Lucky Jerry West drafted Kobe...and lucky Boston didn't pick Randle (Although Smart isn't a bad choice either. Basically they just took what landed in their lap. They didn't succeed at anything this off-season! |
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Sort of a 2.0 version of last season.
PS: nothing could be as bad as last year. |
If not for the unprecedented amount of injuries, not even last year would have been as bad as last year. |
tru dat! |
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King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| I'm Okay with it but Beasley would improve it a great deal. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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I think Beez will have other options. IIRC he's still paid $7m or so by Phx this season? So maybe $ may not matter, but why not get an additional salary?
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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