The Princeton offense
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: The Princeton offense

This is the offense we should run. Mainly for Kobe, obviously. Kobe needs a halfcourt system offense. He excels playing that style. And especially at this point of his career, therr is hardly an alternative for him.
Phil managed to have us run the triangle and run as much as we possibly could in 2009. I kinda hope Byron goes for the same vision. That would help Lin to be in his element as well, get those fastbreak opportunities. I guess what I wanna say is, ues, run Princeton, it is the offense I definitely want 100 % but don't be like Mike Brown and insist on walking it up every damn time. It was the year before we had the Princeton offense but it's what ruined Sessions' production.
Anyway, do you expect Byron to run the Princeton offense or do you think that was all Eddie Jordan?

I mean, its obvious to even the casual observers who have followed Kobe a bit more closely that he needs the system offense and excels in it. Byron must realize it too.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject:

why not just run the triangle?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject:

Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.


That Kings team was stocked with great passers too so there was a logic to it. We on the other hand have high turnover players.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
why not just run the triangle?


Lol, c'mon, let's just not go there. Phil along with Kobe my favorite person in basketball and obviously the whole situation doesn't sit well with me but I am a Laker fan and I wanna move on and turn the page.
I will be rooting for Knicks as well this year but that's another story.
Anyway, no need to go there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
why not just run the triangle?


Lol, c'mon, let's just not go there. Phil along with Kobe my favorite person in basketball and obviously the whole situation doesn't sit well with me but I am a Laker fan and I wanna move on and turn the page.
I will be rooting for Knicks as well this year but that's another story.
Anyway, no need to go there.


The main appeal of the Princeton you've outlined is that it's similar to the triangle. Why pussyfoot around?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.


Yeah, it is kinda the sams thing with Phil and the triangle. No one else had success with it except him.
My point I guess is that for Kobe, it is like the only thing. Especially at this stage of his career. Didn't Byron run Princeton with the Nets when they made the consecutive trips to the finals? That's some success I guess. With a proper roster, it could work. Any roster with Kobe is a proper roster for Princeton IMO.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
why not just run the triangle?


Lol, c'mon, let's just not go there. Phil along with Kobe my favorite person in basketball and obviously the whole situation doesn't sit well with me but I am a Laker fan and I wanna move on and turn the page.
I will be rooting for Knicks as well this year but that's another story.
Anyway, no need to go there.


The main appeal of the Princeton you've outlined is that it's similar to the triangle. Why pussyfoot around?


I said enough about that situation. Picking MDA over Phil was as stupid in coachinh terms as picking Bowie over Jordan in player terms. Not hiring Brian Shaw after Phil left was stupid, too. Taking Kobe in his 14th year out of triangle was stupid. Everything was stupid. Not hiring Fisher IMO will also prove to be a stupid decision IMO. Stupid getting rid of all things Phil and keeping Kobe as your main guy. Kobe is also very much a Phil thing, despite all his talents.
But it is what it is.

I just wanna move on. I will support Phil by rooting for the Knicks this year.

Having Princeton instead of triangle is a good way of actually trying to win without being associated with Phil.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject:

We tried the Princeton offense with mike (bleep) for brains brown. He lost 4 out of 5 games with an all star line up
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject:

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
We tried the Princeton offense with mike (bleep) for brains brown. He lost 4 out of 5 games with an all star line up


That had little to do with the offense.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject:

LAKERSCMXCIX wrote:
We tried the Princeton offense with mike (bleep) for brains brown. He lost 4 out of 5 games with an all star line up


It wasn't the Princeton offense that had us losing games, it was the transition defense. That was the slowest team in the world lol. The team we have now is much faster.
I thought offense was working great at the time. I remember Kobe, Pau and Dwight who was still healing from surgery getting very easy looks, scoring effortlessly and just playing out of their minds. And again, Mike Brown just had the tendency to slow things too damn much.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The first begins with Lakers coach Mike Brown, who tried implementing a complex Princeton-based offense that Nash entailed 4 1/2 practices.

“Training camp was miserable,” Nash said. “We had these enormous practices because we were trying to figure out this really intricate offense. Nobody knew it.”

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:50 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Quote:
The first begins with Lakers coach Mike Brown, who tried implementing a complex Princeton-based offense that Nash entailed 4 1/2 practices.

“Training camp was miserable,” Nash said. “We had these enormous practices because we were trying to figure out this really intricate offense. Nobody knew it.”


Princeton Round 2?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject:

Brown just didn't have it as a coach. And obviously, he's not a Princeton guy, never did it before.
Byron did run the Princeton offense before. He does have experience.
When Phil would introduce the triangle to the new group he would always have them play naturally at first while having them add a little bit more of triangle each game. By mid season, his teams would click and playing in triangle would come naturally.
Mike Brown just wanted the team to run 100 % Princeton from the start.


Last edited by LakersNewEra on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:
Quote:
The first begins with Lakers coach Mike Brown, who tried implementing a complex Princeton-based offense that Nash entailed 4 1/2 practices.

“Training camp was miserable,” Nash said. “We had these enormous practices because we were trying to figure out this really intricate offense. Nobody knew it.”


Imagine the training camp for the Spurs' offense. Or when Phil first arrived with the Triangle. It pays to wait.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
Brown just didn't have it as a coach. And obviously, he's not a Princeton guy, never did it before.
Byron did run the Princeton offense before. He does have experience.
When Phil would introduce the triangle to the new group he would always have them play naturally at first while having them add a little bit more of triangle each game. By mkd season, his teams would click and playing in triangle would come naturally.
Mike Brown just wanted the team to run 100 % Princeton from the start.


Yup. That was a big problem as well. He intentionally had them slow down and pass up transition opportunities just to run the offense. The system wasn't the problem, it was our defense, it was our coach, it was our lack of personnel to play defense. Slow footed players, guys playing out of position. I remember dude had Metta playing SG.

The Princeton wasn't really the problem.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject:

And besides, Mike Brown was the ultimate micro managing coach. Not only did he want the team not to run every time, even if the opportunity presented itself, not only did he insist on Princeton every posession, no exception, he also micro managed every play.
I guess you can't do that. Its why Phil's approach works so much better because Phil's free flowing way just enables players to get into the flow of things.
Can't run a system offense and micro manage every play IMO. It has to get to the point where its natural to players. Mike Brown wasn't taking things slowly and he tried to manage everything. How exactly will players learn like that?


Last edited by LakersNewEra on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Brown just didn't have it as a coach. And obviously, he's not a Princeton guy, never did it before.
Byron did run the Princeton offense before. He does have experience.
When Phil would introduce the triangle to the new group he would always have them play naturally at first while having them add a little bit more of triangle each game. By mkd season, his teams would click and playing in triangle would come naturally.
Mike Brown just wanted the team to run 100 % Princeton from the start.


Yup. That was a big problem as well. He intentionally had them slow down and pass up transition opportunities just to run the offense. The system wasn't the problem, it was our defense, it was our coach, it was our lack of personnel to play defense. Slow footed players, guys playing out of position. I remember dude had Metta playing SG.

The Princeton wasn't really the problem.


And Jamison at SF
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:59 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
LakersNewEra wrote:
Brown just didn't have it as a coach. And obviously, he's not a Princeton guy, never did it before.
Byron did run the Princeton offense before. He does have experience.
When Phil would introduce the triangle to the new group he would always have them play naturally at first while having them add a little bit more of triangle each game. By mkd season, his teams would click and playing in triangle would come naturally.
Mike Brown just wanted the team to run 100 % Princeton from the start.


Yup. That was a big problem as well. He intentionally had them slow down and pass up transition opportunities just to run the offense. The system wasn't the problem, it was our defense, it was our coach, it was our lack of personnel to play defense. Slow footed players, guys playing out of position. I remember dude had Metta playing SG.

The Princeton wasn't really the problem.


And Jamison at SF


I swear he was just doing random (bleep) to see if it worked. None of those moves made any sense.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Follow what they current NBA does now. High PnR with a mobile big who can put the ball on the floor/spot up for Jump shot and a guard who can create/drive/shoot. Surround those two with shooters. Play defense. Ta-DA
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Triangle.
Princeton.
UCLA.

Doesn't matter to me. Call it whatever you want - just run an offense that is based on ball- and player-movement.

Lots of off-ball motion and screens.
Strong-side to weak-side movement.
Passing, passing, passing.

Within the offense, there should be plenty of P/R options all over the court.


And with Kobe, Boozer and Randle, we have some nice post-up options as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Per Wikipedia:

he offense is designed for a unit of 5 players who can each pass, shoot and dribble at an above average level. It attempts to isolate and exploit a mismatch using these skills.[3] Positions become less important and on offense there is no point guard, shooting guard, small forward or power forward.[4]

The offense usually starts out with four players outside the three-point arc with one player at the top of the key. The ball is kept in constant motion through passing until either a mismatch allows a player to cut to the basket or a player without the ball cuts toward the unoccupied area under and around the basket, and is passed the ball for a layup. Having a strong post player is important because this player is critical to passing to backdoor cutters, and can draw help defense to open outside shots.

The hallmark of the offense is the backdoor pass, where a player on the wing suddenly moves in towards the basket, receives a bounce pass from a guard on the perimeter, and (if done correctly) finds himself with no defenders between him and a layup. Alternatively, when the defensive team attempts to pack the paint to prevent backdoor cuts, the offense utilizes three point shots from the perimeter. All five players in the offense—including the center—should be competent at making a three point attempt, further spreading the floor.

The offense is often a very slow developing one, relying on a high number of passes, and is often used in college basketball by teams facing opponents with superior athletic talent, to maintain a low-scoring game (believing that a high-scoring game would favor the athletically superior opponent).

Do we really have the personnel for it? Well besides Kobe and Nash?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.


That Kings team was stocked with great passers too so there was a logic to it. We on the other hand have high turnover players.


He had the guy most notorious for running it sitting next to him as well. Like Tex, but with a BS offense.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:43 pm    Post subject:

FromTheWestSideWithLove wrote:
Follow what they current NBA does now. High PnR with a mobile big who can put the ball on the floor/spot up for Jump shot and a guard who can create/drive/shoot. Surround those two with shooters. Play defense. Ta-DA


I would generally agree and trust me, if we had anyone but Kobe as our star player,I would never suggest Princeton, it wouldn't even cross my mind.
Having Kobe, a 36 year old Kobe at that as your star player, you got to cater to him. Your offense has to revolve around your star player. I mean, you don't play run and gun if Shaq is your main option, you catch my drift?
Kobe can get his in any offense, true. But he is really a system player. And he is now 36 years old. So we can't really be a running team. We can run but we should be a halfcourt team. And we should run the system offense. Kobe isn't a natural playmaker but he is the most studious player and modt dedicated to all the little nuances of the game which makes him an amazing playmaker and a facilitator in any system offense, given that those offenses are very layered and complicated. They require a mad scientist type to run them. It brings out the best of Kobe. The way he can faciliate the system offense is on par with greatest playmakers in a more traditional offense.
Kobe has the feel of a natural scorer. What separated him from the likes of AI and other volume scoring, ballhandling types with no natural flair for playmaking was Kobe's main scientist nature. System offense, he can run it with his brain. And you know he dissects it lol.


Last edited by LakersNewEra on Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:48 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
why not just run the triangle?


Taught by? Why minimize a potential strength, PG penetration?
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