the triangle's like the old CRT TV... while it can still do its job, it's gone past its time.
In before the Triangle wins yet another championship in NY. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
Then, in time, we should move the low IQ players and bring in higher IQ guys.
If it's a choice between running a team-oriented, passing/reading/motion system or keeping Nick Young or Wes Johnson or Jordan Hill around, I'm going with the system.
If certain players can't hang, move them for players that can.
Having multiple low IQ players playing major roles makes winning/contending extraordinarily more difficult.
I agree with running a system, I just don't think Princeton is it. Steve Nash...arguably one of the Top 2 greatest offensive players of his generation and as high IQ as they come...complained about how intricate and pedantic Princeton was. You have a ton of reads to make, on the ball and off of it, spacing is minimized by positioning players on the wings rather than in the corners, and it's not particularly flexible. If a player misses a read (which will happen quite a bit due to the complexity of those reads), you're likely going to end up in a situation where you haven't created a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the shot clock. This is true of the Triangle as well, which is why it was only successful so long as you had one of the 2 greatest isolation players in NBA history on the team. Other than that, it was disastrous everywhere it was used. On our last title team, over 20% of our shots were generated out of isolation, one of the highest numbers in the league that year.
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
Spoken like a coach
Based on your write-up, I agree that the Princeton seems ill-fitted to this roster.
Complicating matters is that our best post player, by far, is Kobe, but Kelly is our only capable 3-point shooting big.
Hopefully Byron will be flexible in his schemes, given the fact that very few of these players will be on the team in three years.
I have a problem when professional basketball players can't learn simple fundamentals to run an offense.
On admittedly MUCH lower levels of basketball, this is the most common coaching mistake that I see. The mentality of "my schemes are great, and they'd work perfectly if these dumb/unskilled players didn't mess them up." This is from the Wikipedia on the Princeton Offense...
Quote:
The offense is designed for a unit of 5 players who can each pass, shoot and dribble at an above average level
Ironically, the offense that I run ALSO works best with a unit of 5 players who can each pass, shoot, and dribble at an above average level.
You have to coach the players that you have, rather than the players that you want. If you don't have a team of brilliant, high IQ players, you have to have an infrastructure in place (and patience) to teach offenses like the Triangle or Princeton. We don't have that, in terms of expertise on the coaching staff, and there's not a lot of evidence to suggest that those offenses yield better results in the first place.
Byron is NOT gonna run the Princeton. He's going to run a high pnr pg-centric offense that utilizes Kobe as the bail out. The amount of Princeton sets he'll run is obviously up to him, but it won't be the traditional Princeton for sure. Noone in their right mind would do that as several posters above have already pointed out. I think the high pnr works perfectly for this squad, because we have a dynamic pnr pg in Lin, a pnr player in Kobe who can play both the pick and the roll/pop, Boozer who went through the Utah system, and Randle who should be able to give a mean pick and a scary roll once he learns it at an NBA level.
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
although I think Kobe and Boozer can play the Princeton offense...
I hope they scrap the idea. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
well said...
plus this team isn't built for the triangle/princeton
I can take a few sets here and there... but to strictly run those systems would set us back two decades worth of basketball knowledge. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Byron said they're taking a few sets from it. It'll be somewhat like Princeton, he said.
Doubt it'll be the entire thing. Can't really learn that in one training camp anyway.
Sure, they might fuse some Princeton looks but I trust Byron to use the talent correctly. You can do so many things with a healthy Kobe. This team looks strong in P&R/P&P with Lin(& mayyybe Nash) and the PF setup. I'm sure Byron will use them well and keep defenses on their toes. They'll be effective randomly setting a back screen for a guard when a year ago it was get it quickly to one of the four guys on the perimeter and chuck.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:20 am Post subject:
He said in the press conference yesterday that he would incorporate everything he learned. That means hints of Princeton and PnR play. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6938 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:19 am Post subject:
Byron said in his presser that he will run the princeton offense.... but there are 5 different base sets to it. He's not going to run all of them right away. He'll focus on one, master it and then move to another.
Mike Brown's issue was that he wanted too much of the offense implemented from the start.
If you're trying to overcome a talent deficit, the princeton is perfect.
He said in the press conference yesterday that he would incorporate everything he learned. That means hints of Princeton and PnR play.
Right, what I understood it to mean was that he was going ease into the Princeton, using some concepts that fit the players, not all, while emphasizing defense at the other end.
the triangle's like the old CRT TV... while it can still do its job, it's gone past its time.
Last I checked, CRTs may have been obsolete but the TV isn't. Far from it, as a matter of fact.
Just because that one particular incarnation of the Tri Phil ran in Chicago and LA doesn't work anymore doesn't mean no form of the system itself can. Even the last two teams we had that won rings in the Tri barely resembled those from the early 2000s.
Times change, rules change, the game evolves? You adapt. _________________ Lakers. Galaxy. Spurs.
the triangle's like the old CRT TV... while it can still do its job, it's gone past its time.
Last I checked, CRTs may have been obsolete but the TV isn't. Far from it, as a matter of fact.
Just because that one particular incarnation of the Tri Phil ran in Chicago and LA doesn't work anymore doesn't mean no form of the system itself can. Even the last two teams we had that won rings in the Tri barely resembled those from the early 2000s.
Times change, rules change, the game evolves? You adapt.
People love the say triangle triangle.
The triangle is a great system.
And it's been a great system in the NBA for teams to use for 3 1/2 quarters. Ya know. Because in crunch time, greats like MJ and Kobe went one on one, post up, pick n' roll, and drive.
the triangle's like the old CRT TV... while it can still do its job, it's gone past its time.
Last I checked, CRTs may have been obsolete but the TV isn't. Far from it, as a matter of fact.
Just because that one particular incarnation of the Tri Phil ran in Chicago and LA doesn't work anymore doesn't mean no form of the system itself can. Even the last two teams we had that won rings in the Tri barely resembled those from the early 2000s.
Times change, rules change, the game evolves? You adapt.
People love the say triangle triangle.
The triangle is a great system.
And it's been a great system in the NBA for teams to use for 3 1/2 quarters. Ya know. Because in crunch time, greats like MJ and Kobe went one on one, post up, pick n' roll, and drive.
The only time it's been a great NBA is system is when one of the two best ISO players in NBA history are on it. Or at least in the last 40 years.
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
Who other than Ryan Kelly on this team do you think could actually fit in to what SA does (ok maybe Lin)? While their system may not be as complicated it's every bit as strict and unforgiving on bad shots and overdribbling. We should just embrace who we are: iso's and post-ups.
Uhh...Kobe Bryant.
OMG...the greatest bad shot taker (and maker) in the history of the league. You're aware they actually demand ball movement in SA, right?
Ever watch the 2009 Los Angeles Lakers led by one Kobe Bean Bryant? That team could give a masterclass on ball movement. _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless.
the triangle's like the old CRT TV... while it can still do its job, it's gone past its time.
Last I checked, CRTs may have been obsolete but the TV isn't. Far from it, as a matter of fact.
Just because that one particular incarnation of the Tri Phil ran in Chicago and LA doesn't work anymore doesn't mean no form of the system itself can. Even the last two teams we had that won rings in the Tri barely resembled those from the early 2000s.
Times change, rules change, the game evolves? You adapt.
People love the say triangle triangle.
The triangle is a great system.
And it's been a great system in the NBA for teams to use for 3 1/2 quarters. Ya know. Because in crunch time, greats like MJ and Kobe went one on one, post up, pick n' roll, and drive.
The only time it's been a great NBA is system is when one of the two best ISO players in NBA history are on it. Or at least in the last 40 years.
I wonder how Carmelo is going to do in New York. _________________ Kobe
the triangle's like the old CRT TV... while it can still do its job, it's gone past its time.
Last I checked, CRTs may have been obsolete but the TV isn't. Far from it, as a matter of fact.
Just because that one particular incarnation of the Tri Phil ran in Chicago and LA doesn't work anymore doesn't mean no form of the system itself can. Even the last two teams we had that won rings in the Tri barely resembled those from the early 2000s.
Times change, rules change, the game evolves? You adapt.
People love the say triangle triangle.
The triangle is a great system.
And it's been a great system in the NBA for teams to use for 3 1/2 quarters. Ya know. Because in crunch time, greats like MJ and Kobe went one on one, post up, pick n' roll, and drive.
The only time it's been a great NBA is system is when one of the two best ISO players in NBA history are on it. Or at least in the last 40 years.
I wonder how Carmelo is going to do in New York.
He'll be fine. He'll be very helpful in that he's exactly the kind of guy that you can give the ball to when things break down.
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
Who other than Ryan Kelly on this team do you think could actually fit in to what SA does (ok maybe Lin)? While their system may not be as complicated it's every bit as strict and unforgiving on bad shots and overdribbling. We should just embrace who we are: iso's and post-ups.
Uhh...Kobe Bryant.
OMG...the greatest bad shot taker (and maker) in the history of the league. You're aware they actually demand ball movement in SA, right?
Kobe has played on PLENTY of teams that had great ball movement. 2001, 2002, 2008, 2009, 2010. Seriously, just stop.
We tried the Princeton offense with mike (bleep) for brains brown. He lost 4 out of 5 games with an all star line up
Kobe excelled in the Princeton offense. It was the others (mainly Dwight, Pau, and Nash) who struggled with it.
Kobe was actually terrifyingly effecting during that period.
For some reason I actually think it might work with this team mainly because most of the players are so young and will be more willing to give it a chance. Scott also seems to inspire more confidence than Mike Brown ever did. from what I recall it was often said that Mike Brown a had a tendency to over-complicate things offensively.
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Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
