So if there must be some Princeton (there probably will be since Byron likes it on his previous teams), I hope it's mixed with some high P'N'R so that guys like Boozer, Lin, Randle and others can contribute as well to lessen the load on Kobe.
I don't think you need to worry about that.
Kyrie Irving's 2012/2013 offense highlights under Byron Scott:
Part 2:
Right.
Plus the Princeton implements curls and pinches which is essentially pick n roll.
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.
He doesn't run Princeton, just Princeton inspired . Lots of teams run triangle style plays, but that's different from triangle.
It was a high post offense. Pass it to big, that triggers movement, you read and screen well you get good shots. Ideally. _________________ Kobe "I mean Phil's been here, and -- to be honest with you -- we might have, in all the years I've been with Phil, (had) maybe three defensive drills the entire time"
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject:
iggypop123 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.
He doesn't run Princeton, just Princeton inspired . Lots of teams run triangle style plays, but that's different from triangle.
It was a high post offense. Pass it to big, that triggers movement, you read and screen well you get good shots. Ideally.
Lin will be fine in the offense. He'll still be effective on the picks and use his speed to reek havoc in the paint. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.
He doesn't run Princeton, just Princeton inspired . Lots of teams run triangle style plays, but that's different from triangle.
It was a high post offense. Pass it to big, that triggers movement, you read and screen well you get good shots. Ideally.
There's video of the Lakers and Kings running sets.
yeah the 2nd video is what i was talking about. they tried running that in summer league (telling of scott being considered?). anyways they ran it horribly, brent barry coulndt stop talking about how bad execution was.
id be in favor of princeton inpsired not the full on princeton from the mike brown era. eliminates the ball handlers ability to attack and we dont have the shooters to keep great spacing _________________ Kobe "I mean Phil's been here, and -- to be honest with you -- we might have, in all the years I've been with Phil, (had) maybe three defensive drills the entire time"
he offense is designed for a unit of 5 players who can each pass, shoot and dribble at an above average level. It attempts to isolate and exploit a mismatch using these skills.[3] Positions become less important and on offense there is no point guard, shooting guard, small forward or power forward.[4]
The offense usually starts out with four players outside the three-point arc with one player at the top of the key. The ball is kept in constant motion through passing until either a mismatch allows a player to cut to the basket or a player without the ball cuts toward the unoccupied area under and around the basket, and is passed the ball for a layup. Having a strong post player is important because this player is critical to passing to backdoor cutters, and can draw help defense to open outside shots.
The hallmark of the offense is the backdoor pass, where a player on the wing suddenly moves in towards the basket, receives a bounce pass from a guard on the perimeter, and (if done correctly) finds himself with no defenders between him and a layup. Alternatively, when the defensive team attempts to pack the paint to prevent backdoor cuts, the offense utilizes three point shots from the perimeter. All five players in the offense—including the center—should be competent at making a three point attempt, further spreading the floor.
The offense is often a very slow developing one, relying on a high number of passes, and is often used in college basketball by teams facing opponents with superior athletic talent, to maintain a low-scoring game (believing that a high-scoring game would favor the athletically superior opponent).
Do we really have the personnel for it? Well besides Kobe and Nash?
Yes we have the personnel for it. Boozer Randall and Kelly are excellent passers
Here's videos of the offense
I believe Ryan Kelly is a must keep for the next 6 years. His basket IQ is too Good to lose in FA. His a great prospect, possibly a gasol/dirk second coming. If we ever lost him in FA his going to be a allstar reserve
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35811 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:55 am Post subject:
Happy213 wrote:
Car54 wrote:
basketofballs wrote:
Per Wikipedia:
he offense is designed for a unit of 5 players who can each pass, shoot and dribble at an above average level. It attempts to isolate and exploit a mismatch using these skills.[3] Positions become less important and on offense there is no point guard, shooting guard, small forward or power forward.[4]
The offense usually starts out with four players outside the three-point arc with one player at the top of the key. The ball is kept in constant motion through passing until either a mismatch allows a player to cut to the basket or a player without the ball cuts toward the unoccupied area under and around the basket, and is passed the ball for a layup. Having a strong post player is important because this player is critical to passing to backdoor cutters, and can draw help defense to open outside shots.
The hallmark of the offense is the backdoor pass, where a player on the wing suddenly moves in towards the basket, receives a bounce pass from a guard on the perimeter, and (if done correctly) finds himself with no defenders between him and a layup. Alternatively, when the defensive team attempts to pack the paint to prevent backdoor cuts, the offense utilizes three point shots from the perimeter. All five players in the offense—including the center—should be competent at making a three point attempt, further spreading the floor.
The offense is often a very slow developing one, relying on a high number of passes, and is often used in college basketball by teams facing opponents with superior athletic talent, to maintain a low-scoring game (believing that a high-scoring game would favor the athletically superior opponent).
Do we really have the personnel for it? Well besides Kobe and Nash?
Yes we have the personnel for it. Boozer Randall and Kelly are excellent passers
Here's videos of the offense
I believe Ryan Kelly is a must keep for the next 6 years. His basket IQ is too Good to lose in FA. His a great prospect, possibly a gasol/dirk second coming. If we ever lost him in FA his going to be a allstar reserve
Why stop there? Ryan Kelly is the next coming of Wilt Chamberlain. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Wasn't Adelman with the Kings the only coach to have any success running that? The general consensus seems to be that that's a style which only works in college basketball.
He doesn't run Princeton, just Princeton inspired . Lots of teams run triangle style plays, but that's different from triangle.
It was a high post offense. Pass it to big, that triggers movement, you read and screen well you get good shots. Ideally.
Byron is likely to use Princeton most of the time. With so many mobile kids like lin, randle, clarkson in our lineup, they will fit right in. Then throw in a series of PnRs when we need a run on points.
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
Byron Scott used similar principles for the New Jersey Nets...
And the Nets were 17th & 18th in the league in Points Per 100 possessions during their two trips to the Finals. They were 1st in the league in Points Per 100 Possessions on the defensive end both years. Saying that we should run what NJ ran on offense because they were somewhat successful is like saying that we should run what Memphis has run on offense the last couple of years. Point being, their offense wasn't why they were there.
Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 8598 Location: (physically) West Seattle (heart) Venice Beach
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:11 am Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
Then, in time, we should move the low IQ players and bring in higher IQ guys.
If it's a choice between running a team-oriented, passing/reading/motion system or keeping Nick Young or Wes Johnson or Jordan Hill around, I'm going with the system.
If certain players can't hang, move them for players that can.
Having multiple low IQ players playing major roles makes winning/contending extraordinarily more difficult. _________________ Everything. Changes.
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
Then, in time, we should move the low IQ players and bring in higher IQ guys.
If it's a choice between running a team-oriented, passing/reading/motion system or keeping Nick Young or Wes Johnson or Jordan Hill around, I'm going with the system.
If certain players can't hang, move them for players that can.
Having multiple low IQ players playing major roles makes winning/contending extraordinarily more difficult.
Completely agree. _________________ "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
Then, in time, we should move the low IQ players and bring in higher IQ guys.
If it's a choice between running a team-oriented, passing/reading/motion system or keeping Nick Young or Wes Johnson or Jordan Hill around, I'm going with the system.
If certain players can't hang, move them for players that can.
Having multiple low IQ players playing major roles makes winning/contending extraordinarily more difficult.
I agree with running a system, I just don't think Princeton is it. Steve Nash...arguably one of the Top 2 greatest offensive players of his generation and as high IQ as they come...complained about how intricate and pedantic Princeton was. You have a ton of reads to make, on the ball and off of it, spacing is minimized by positioning players on the wings rather than in the corners, and it's not particularly flexible. If a player misses a read (which will happen quite a bit due to the complexity of those reads), you're likely going to end up in a situation where you haven't created a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the shot clock. This is true of the Triangle as well, which is why it was only successful so long as you had one of the 2 greatest isolation players in NBA history on the team. Other than that, it was disastrous everywhere it was used. On our last title team, over 20% of our shots were generated out of isolation, one of the highest numbers in the league that year.
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
Running Princeton now is an even worse idea than it was in 2012. The mental picture of guys like Nick Young or Wes Johnson trying to navigate Weave Screens and Dribble-Ats while Ed Davis & Jordan Hill make high post reads is pretty funny.
I'd rather we ran the triangle and dispelled any myths about that.
Then, in time, we should move the low IQ players and bring in higher IQ guys.
If it's a choice between running a team-oriented, passing/reading/motion system or keeping Nick Young or Wes Johnson or Jordan Hill around, I'm going with the system.
If certain players can't hang, move them for players that can.
Having multiple low IQ players playing major roles makes winning/contending extraordinarily more difficult.
I agree with running a system, I just don't think Princeton is it. Steve Nash...arguably one of the Top 2 greatest offensive players of his generation and as high IQ as they come...complained about how intricate and pedantic Princeton was. You have a ton of reads to make, on the ball and off of it, spacing is minimized by positioning players on the wings rather than in the corners, and it's not particularly flexible. If a player misses a read (which will happen quite a bit due to the complexity of those reads), you're likely going to end up in a situation where you haven't created a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the shot clock. This is true of the Triangle as well, which is why it was only successful so long as you had one of the 2 greatest isolation players in NBA history on the team. Other than that, it was disastrous everywhere it was used. On our last title team, over 20% of our shots were generated out of isolation, one of the highest numbers in the league that year.
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
Spoken like a coach
Based on your write-up, I agree that the Princeton seems ill-fitted to this roster.
Complicating matters is that our best post player, by far, is Kobe, but Kelly is our only capable 3-point shooting big.
Hopefully Byron will be flexible in his schemes, given the fact that very few of these players will be on the team in three years.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:20 am Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
If we want system, basketball, San Antonio is the team to copy. Popovich has essentially taken D'Antoni's spacing principles, added weak side motion, and emphasized ball movement with his players. Atlanta used these same principles last year and made the playoffs with a woefully undermanned squad. SA's personnel is as high IQ as there is in the league, with guys like Parker, Duncan, Diaw, & Manu, and their system isn't nearly as complicated as the Triangle or Princeton. There's a reason that very few coaches run those offenses at any level anymore.
Who other than Ryan Kelly on this team do you think could actually fit in to what SA does (ok maybe Lin)? While their system may not be as complicated it's every bit as strict and unforgiving on bad shots and overdribbling. We should just embrace who we are: iso's and post-ups.
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