|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships. |
Since the discussion was about peak I am assuming we were talking about individual metrics, not team ones (ie championships). |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| moonriver24 wrote: | 
Keep assuming dude.
Listen to the conversation again between a well respected sportscaster Simmons and the supposedly comedian who took Wooden"s words OUT OF CONTEXT (lol) or worst, TWISTED TO MAKE KOBE THE GOAT.
HOW CAN YOU KNOW IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT?
THE COMEDIAN WAS WELL SPOKEN AND NOT DRUNKEN WHEN THE CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE WITH BILL FREAKING SIMMONS. |
Just give it up already. Why are you trying so hard to convince me that Super Dave Osborne's words are gospel?
I don't care about Super Dave Osborne and you know nothing about him either.
Nothing about what you have said changes the fact that you, nor I, nor anyone can verify those words were ever actually spoken. It just doesn't make much sense to put forth, as your case, a statement that Bill said Tom told him that Nancy said that Barbara's aunt once overheard a conversation with Bill Bob and Hootsack about the time that Peter heard Holly say that her kids read the lips of Margaret saying to Edith that James Naismith's last words were Ko ..... Bee..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bballguru5000
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 8125
Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | mettaElbow wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | mettaElbow wrote: | | doesnt mean anything, ESPN, Jordan, Magic, and Bird romanticist wouldnt rate kobe as 2nd of all time or over mj for very valid reasons, 2nd sg i agree |
FIXED! |
how abt lakers very own wilt and kareem |
Kareem has an argument for greatest basketball player ever to lace up if, especially if you consider his before the pros stuff too. But since he can't be truly considered even the greatest Laker player ever, it puts his career in perspective for me. Wilt was a freak playing against boys for most of his career in a physically inferior era, and falls woefully short on championships. I just consider who and the kinds of players you faced nightly, and who you had to match up against and beat to win it all, a VERY important factor in the GOAT argument. |
Wilt would have dominated any era. He was both athletic, quick and physically imposing. Cam you imagine the weak centers defending him today in the paint. He went up against a stacked Boston team, and while I agree that normally titles won has to be considered when debating this, dominance and other factors have to be heavily regarded. It's not Wilt's fault he played in the 60s and 70s.
If there was an all-time draft today, I would take both Kareem and Wilt over M.J. M.J. Is the greatest SG of all time (Kobe is second) but it's ridiculous how he has become the greatest ever by default, which he is not.
Can anyone here seriously pick M.J. over prime Kareem, Wilt or Shaq?
Shaq could have been the GOAT if he had Kobe's mentality. It wouldn't even have been close. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bballguru5000
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 8125
Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | That being said, I'm surprised at your lack of cool on this topic. Frankly, I thought such a classless and anti-intellectual attack was beneath you.
I'll try to use smaller words in my next few posts. |
I'm not surprised at your lack of cool on the topic. In the past, you've been happy to tell us how much money you make and how well educated you are. Other than you, no one is impressed. Even now, you're trying to conceal your lack of sophistication by calling me anti-intellectual. It didn't work. No one cares about the medical literature. Feel free to pat yourself on the back some more. It must be awesome to get up every morning being you. Meanwhile, the rest of us are going to talk about the topic at hand. |
You two have been going at it since the old AOL boards and even the NBA chat rooms on AOL, haven't you?
You two have a great rivalry going. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bballguru5000 wrote: | You two have been going at it since the old AOL boards and even the NBA chat rooms on AOL, haven't you?
You two have a great rivalry going. |
I don't think so. I did post on the AOL boards many years ago, but I never went to an NBA chat room (in fact, I didn't know such a thing existed). Anyway, I don't recognize this guy as someone from the old AOL boards. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmills
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 3711
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I still can't believe that Wade's opinion has generated this much chatter lol. It's his opinion. We don't need to obfuscate what he said or try to extract hidden meaning or do a psycho analysis.
_________________
A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmills
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 3711
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jlin1 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jlin1 wrote: | Someone needs to post last possession/last 30 sec. stats for bird and magic for comparison's sake.
But yeah, Kobe is incredibly over-rated as a final possession, final shot clutch player.
Perhaps the only great player to live up to his rep is jordan. |
Incredible over-rated?! I can see an argument for why some players might be considered more clutch, but, at worst he's the most clutch player of his own generation no?
I think it's also a bit unfair to discredit Kobe for his lack of success from a clutch factor perspective in his later years. I'd agree he has missed a lot more game winner and fumbled critical possession type plays, but to me, there needs to be a distinction between just not being clutch, and being unclutch. The line is very thin, but there is one, IMO. |
The stats prove otherwise.
As I've said before, Kobe was at his best as a superior no. 2 option after shaq. He had so much freedom to shoot and create as a wing with shaq commanding constant doubles.
As a 1st option in the finals, his shooting percentage really stunk.
|
LOL. I see what he did there...
_________________
A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| moonriver24 wrote: | | Maybe the best way is to verify the truth about Wooden saying Kobe the best player he had ever seen is to have the comedian swear in writing that Wooded did say so. |
Eh, you don't really care. If the comedian said that John Wooden told him that Lebron (or MJ, or whoever) was the best he ever saw, you'd brush it off. You'd say that Wooden's just an old college coach who knows nothing about the NBA, right? You only care about John Wooden because he might have said something that supports your argument. If John Wooden had said something different, you wouldn't change your mind, would you?
Dozens of Hall of Famers and luminaries have said something different. When the "Mount Rushmore" thing went around, hardly any of the people who were asked about it put Kobe on their Mount Rushmore (I think Magic did, but his other three were Lebron, Wade, and Duncan, so he may have been limiting himself to current players). None of that changed your mind, either.
I've made this point before. Celebrity opinions are pretty worthless on these issues. Earlier in the thread, Luke threw some quote from Durant in my face. Durant talked about how Kobe was the greatest ever, or something like that. Guess what? Kobe didn't make Durant's Mount Rushmore, either.
That's not unusual. A lot of these guys will tell the audience what they want to hear, or say whatever is politically correct at the moment. They aren't analyzing the issue like we are. They're just talking off the cuff. When someone actually gets them to stop and think about it, their opinions tend to mirror what everyone else in the NBA community thinks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: |
Keep assuming dude.
Listen to the conversation again between a well respected sportscaster Simmons and the supposedly comedian who took Wooden"s words OUT OF CONTEXT (lol) or worst, TWISTED TO MAKE KOBE THE GOAT.
HOW CAN YOU KNOW IT WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT?
THE COMEDIAN WAS WELL SPOKEN AND NOT DRUNKEN WHEN THE CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE WITH BILL FREAKING SIMMONS. |
Just give it up already. Why are you trying so hard to convince me that Super Dave Osborne's words are gospel?
I don't care about Super Dave Osborne and you know nothing about him either.
Nothing about what you have said changes the fact that you, nor I, nor anyone can verify those words were ever actually spoken. It just doesn't make much sense to put forth, as your case, a statement that Bill said Tom told him that Nancy said that Barbara's aunt once overheard a conversation with Bill Bob and Hootsack about the time that Peter heard Holly say that her kids read the lips of Margaret saying to Edith that James Naismith's last words were Ko ..... Bee..... |
Let me jump in for a second and then jump out.. Take, for the sake of discussion, that this actual conversation took place.
Super Dave: John, who is the best player you've ever seen?
John: Kobe.
My reaction: Cool enough. Not really enough there to matter to me, because I don't know why Wooden felt that way, and I can't really judge this without the why. The why is a million times more important in these things than the what.
So in the sum of the "Where do we rank Kobe" discussion, even if we accept this exchange happened like this, this exchange is the equivalent of a drop of water in a swimming pool to me. It's insignificant. But that's my general reaction to little quote snippets people pull out to boost/detract any player. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bballguru5000 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | That being said, I'm surprised at your lack of cool on this topic. Frankly, I thought such a classless and anti-intellectual attack was beneath you.
I'll try to use smaller words in my next few posts. |
I'm not surprised at your lack of cool on the topic. In the past, you've been happy to tell us how much money you make and how well educated you are. Other than you, no one is impressed. Even now, you're trying to conceal your lack of sophistication by calling me anti-intellectual. It didn't work. No one cares about the medical literature. Feel free to pat yourself on the back some more. It must be awesome to get up every morning being you. Meanwhile, the rest of us are going to talk about the topic at hand. |
You two have been going at it since the old AOL boards and even the NBA chat rooms on AOL, haven't you?
He's like a butterknife, I'm a machete.
You two have a great rivalry going. |
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sccit
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 886
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
the bottom line is that everyone who has lebron ranked 1-5 and/or kobe ranked 5-10 is brainwashed by ESPN.
when all the great players rank Kobe way ahead of LeBron, it just further proves the notion that ESPN is established to control the minds of the sheeple. it's good for marketing, but not good for basketball purists who actually care for the integrity of the game. statistics are a poor measuring stick, because LeBron is statistically better than not only Kobe, but also MJ, Magic, Kareem, Bird etc. It proves absolutely nothing, especially when LeBron is a known stat-padder. When Boris Diaw guards you 1-on-1 with a 5 foot cushion in the NBA Finals, not only are you not anywhere close to being GOAT, but also far from being in the top tier of all-time greats. Like i've always maintained, LeBron is closer to a Dominique Wilkins or Isiah Thomas than he is to MJ, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Kareem etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sccit wrote: | | when all the great players rank Kobe way ahead of LeBron, it just further proves the notion that ESPN is established to control the minds of the sheeple. |
I don't see anyone making that argument around here. Hello, strawman. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saacman5033
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 786
Location: HNL
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sccit wrote: | | the bottom line is that everyone who has lebron ranked 1-5 and/or kobe ranked 5-10 is brainwashed by ESPN. |
I agree that it's probably crazy to have Lebron in the top 5 now or ranked ahead of Kobe career wise right now.
It's not crazy at all to rank Kobe 5-10.
Lebron has enough years left that it's not crazy to suggest that he might pass Kobe legacy wise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saacman5033
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 786
Location: HNL
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | He's like a butterknife, I'm a machete.
|
Wait, I thought he was butter and you were homogenized milk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sccit wrote: | | the bottom line is that everyone who has lebron ranked 1-5 and/or kobe ranked 5-10 is brainwashed by ESPN.. |
But everyone who has Kobe 1-5 is just a brainwashed fan too.
Does this mean he is really 11-20 somewhere? U NO? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| saacman5033 wrote: | | Lebron has enough years left that it's not crazy to suggest that he might pass Kobe legacy wise. |
If he wins a ring in Cleveland, look out. That's a big if, though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29286
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships.
Kobe is 5 for 7 in the finals.
The hype machine LBJ is 2 for 5.
Before you blame LBJ's supporting cast remember that every team LBJ has been on has been built around him. Chris Bosh had to shoot 3's as a center because lebron needs to get in the paint to dominate the game.
If kobe played with Bosh, Chris would still be able to play to his strengths in the offense (like Pau did).
Pathetic. Kobe can dominate the game with two bigs on the floor clogging the paint. Plus he will take the big shot instead of relying on Ray Allen to do the dirty work.
LBJ chokes late in games (especially in the finals). Dude was shut down by a faulty AC. Pathetic.
Kawhi Leonard got finals MVP! And that was Lebron's man to guard! How embarassing.
People give LBJ credit for doing everything well. But that's also why his teammates tend to look like scrubs around him. He minimizes star players around him and turns them into roll players (I.E. Wade, Bosh, Shaq, etc.). Only person who can turn a star player into a roll player better than LBJ is MDA.
Somehow everyone thinks it's a good thing that Lebron turns all his teammates into jumpshooters alienated in the offense.
. |
Rings is a poor state to use in isolation as Robert Horry has as many as Kobe and Lebron combined. |
Same can be said about stats (the only argument for bron). Oscar Robertson at his peak averaged a triple double. Guess that makes him better than MJ, kobe, and bron....not.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29286
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dreamshake wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships. |
Since the discussion was about peak I am assuming we were talking about individual metrics, not team ones (ie championships). |
If lebron putting up peak stats and kawhi still beating him (and winning finals MVP) is your argument. I don't think it's a good one.
Chips>stats
Air conditioner> lebron
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sccit
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 886
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | when all the great players rank Kobe way ahead of LeBron, it just further proves the notion that ESPN is established to control the minds of the sheeple. |
I don't see anyone making that argument around here. Hello, strawman. |
u make 0 sense |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships.
Kobe is 5 for 7 in the finals.
The hype machine LBJ is 2 for 5.
Before you blame LBJ's supporting cast remember that every team LBJ has been on has been built around him. Chris Bosh had to shoot 3's as a center because lebron needs to get in the paint to dominate the game.
If kobe played with Bosh, Chris would still be able to play to his strengths in the offense (like Pau did).
Pathetic. Kobe can dominate the game with two bigs on the floor clogging the paint. Plus he will take the big shot instead of relying on Ray Allen to do the dirty work.
LBJ chokes late in games (especially in the finals). Dude was shut down by a faulty AC. Pathetic.
Kawhi Leonard got finals MVP! And that was Lebron's man to guard! How embarassing.
People give LBJ credit for doing everything well. But that's also why his teammates tend to look like scrubs around him. He minimizes star players around him and turns them into roll players (I.E. Wade, Bosh, Shaq, etc.). Only person who can turn a star player into a roll player better than LBJ is MDA.
Somehow everyone thinks it's a good thing that Lebron turns all his teammates into jumpshooters alienated in the offense.
. |
Rings is a poor state to use in isolation as Robert Horry has as many as Kobe and Lebron combined. |
Same can be said about stats (the only argument for bron). Oscar Robertson at his peak averaged a triple double. Guess that makes him better than MJ, kobe, and bron....not. |
Which is exactly why no single stat, or any single observation, should ever be used in any sort of meaningful analysis.
Both should be utilized. At all times. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29286
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships.
Kobe is 5 for 7 in the finals.
The hype machine LBJ is 2 for 5.
Before you blame LBJ's supporting cast remember that every team LBJ has been on has been built around him. Chris Bosh had to shoot 3's as a center because lebron needs to get in the paint to dominate the game.
If kobe played with Bosh, Chris would still be able to play to his strengths in the offense (like Pau did).
Pathetic. Kobe can dominate the game with two bigs on the floor clogging the paint. Plus he will take the big shot instead of relying on Ray Allen to do the dirty work.
LBJ chokes late in games (especially in the finals). Dude was shut down by a faulty AC. Pathetic.
Kawhi Leonard got finals MVP! And that was Lebron's man to guard! How embarassing.
People give LBJ credit for doing everything well. But that's also why his teammates tend to look like scrubs around him. He minimizes star players around him and turns them into roll players (I.E. Wade, Bosh, Shaq, etc.). Only person who can turn a star player into a roll player better than LBJ is MDA.
Somehow everyone thinks it's a good thing that Lebron turns all his teammates into jumpshooters alienated in the offense.
. |
Rings is a poor state to use in isolation as Robert Horry has as many as Kobe and Lebron combined. |
Same can be said about stats (the only argument for bron). Oscar Robertson at his peak averaged a triple double. Guess that makes him better than MJ, kobe, and bron....not. |
Which is exactly why no single stat, or any single observation, should ever be used in any sort of meaningful analysis.
Both should be utilized. At all times. |
Agreed, and in that context ranking LBJ over Kobe is absurd.
Also somethings are more important than others (i.e. winning>stats). All the nba greats know that, even lebron. Otherwise he would have never left Cleveland in the first place.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dumhead
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 3286
Location: Low Post Rate
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm totally content with Kobe being regarded as one of the top ten players ever. I never really care about who actually is the top because it really is a meaningless designation based on so many variables beyond stats, such as competition, improvement in the clutch, dominance over competition, will, etc, not to mention differences in conditioning, rules changes, etc.
I will also have no problem putting Lebron in the same category as his career winds down, even if he doesn't win another, because he is the kind of player like Wilt of Shaq that is just an incredible physical anomaly in a good way - and he seems to have a work ethic that Shaq didn't have.
Anyway, I dunno why I'm even chiming in here. These discussions rarely lead anywhere. But oh well.
George Mikan was the GOAT!
_________________
"We got a new universe coming and he's going to control all our universes. We're going to put our universes together" - Metta World Peace |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships.
Kobe is 5 for 7 in the finals.
The hype machine LBJ is 2 for 5.
Before you blame LBJ's supporting cast remember that every team LBJ has been on has been built around him. Chris Bosh had to shoot 3's as a center because lebron needs to get in the paint to dominate the game.
If kobe played with Bosh, Chris would still be able to play to his strengths in the offense (like Pau did).
Pathetic. Kobe can dominate the game with two bigs on the floor clogging the paint. Plus he will take the big shot instead of relying on Ray Allen to do the dirty work.
LBJ chokes late in games (especially in the finals). Dude was shut down by a faulty AC. Pathetic.
Kawhi Leonard got finals MVP! And that was Lebron's man to guard! How embarassing.
People give LBJ credit for doing everything well. But that's also why his teammates tend to look like scrubs around him. He minimizes star players around him and turns them into roll players (I.E. Wade, Bosh, Shaq, etc.). Only person who can turn a star player into a roll player better than LBJ is MDA.
Somehow everyone thinks it's a good thing that Lebron turns all his teammates into jumpshooters alienated in the offense.
. |
Rings is a poor state to use in isolation as Robert Horry has as many as Kobe and Lebron combined. |
Same can be said about stats (the only argument for bron). Oscar Robertson at his peak averaged a triple double. Guess that makes him better than MJ, kobe, and bron....not. |
Which is exactly why no single stat, or any single observation, should ever be used in any sort of meaningful analysis.
Both should be utilized. At all times. |
Agreed, and in that context ranking LBJ over Kobe is absurd.
Also somethings are more important than others (i.e. winning>stats). All the nba greats know that, even lebron. Otherwise he would have never left Cleveland in the first place. |
Well, I don't disagree with the opinion that winning>stats, but I don't think winning alone necessarily makes you a better player either. Too many sub-standard players have won a lot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers 4 eva
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 3820
Location: Anaheim, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | But peak to peak there is a lot to like with Kobe over LBJ. |
Such as? I'm asusming we are talking stats here, since the post was referencing a stat. LeBron seems to have a higher peak in everything but scoring (where Kobe took an extra 7 shots a night) and FT shooting. |
How about the most important stat? Championships.
Kobe is 5 for 7 in the finals.
The hype machine LBJ is 2 for 5.
Before you blame LBJ's supporting cast remember that every team LBJ has been on has been built around him. Chris Bosh had to shoot 3's as a center because lebron needs to get in the paint to dominate the game.
If kobe played with Bosh, Chris would still be able to play to his strengths in the offense (like Pau did).
Pathetic. Kobe can dominate the game with two bigs on the floor clogging the paint. Plus he will take the big shot instead of relying on Ray Allen to do the dirty work.
LBJ chokes late in games (especially in the finals). Dude was shut down by a faulty AC. Pathetic.
Kawhi Leonard got finals MVP! And that was Lebron's man to guard! How embarassing.
People give LBJ credit for doing everything well. But that's also why his teammates tend to look like scrubs around him. He minimizes star players around him and turns them into roll players (I.E. Wade, Bosh, Shaq, etc.). Only person who can turn a star player into a roll player better than LBJ is MDA.
Somehow everyone thinks it's a good thing that Lebron turns all his teammates into jumpshooters alienated in the offense.
. |
Rings is a poor state to use in isolation as Robert Horry has as many as Kobe and Lebron combined. |
Same can be said about stats (the only argument for bron). Oscar Robertson at his peak averaged a triple double. Guess that makes him better than MJ, kobe, and bron....not. |
Which is exactly why no single stat, or any single observation, should ever be used in any sort of meaningful analysis.
Both should be utilized. At all times. |
Agreed, and in that context ranking LBJ over Kobe is absurd.
Also somethings are more important than others (i.e. winning>stats). All the nba greats know that, even lebron. Otherwise he would have never left Cleveland in the first place. |
Well, I don't disagree with the opinion that winning>stats, but I don't think winning alone necessarily makes you a better player either. Too many sub-standard players have won a lot. |
No one is comparing substandard players here. Only all time greats, so bringing up Horry, Fisher or any other roleplayer who were lucky enough to win multiple titles doesn't really count. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bballguru5000
Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 8125
Location: Born and Raised in Los Angeles, now living in Manhattan, NY.
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Debating the top 10 all-time has become a fairly useless argument that serves nothing. There are way too many players in too many eras to make a definitive argument, which obviously can't exist.
But as I said before, if I could pick any player in NBA history in his prime, I'd pick prime Jabbar and prime Wilt before I'd pick prime Jordan.
And not all NBA titles are worth the same. Magic's five are more impressive than M.J.'s six, IMO, because of the teams and level of talent Magis faced. M.J. would not have an undefeated finals record if he played in the 80s.
As far as Lebron's legacy, it's still early to judge.
The thing about sports is, opinions are based mostly on short-term memory. Lebron is still fresh on the minds. You have to let him finish out his years and look at his career from a distance a few years after his retirement. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
