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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| xxsicrokerxx wrote: | | sandeezy wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | In order:
KAJ
WILT
LBJ (yeah, blasphemy)
MJ
Kobe (better shooter than MJ, but not as committed on D later in career)
Magic
Russell (hey, he was surrounded by HOF)
Shaq (should be #1, but poor motor/poor work ethic robbed him)
The BIG O (averaged a triple double over a 400+ game stretch)
Mr. Spock, er, Duncan |
One of the worst top 10 lists I've ever seen in my life. |
Clearly he is trolling, no one can be so.... Wait can't insult anyone. Have a happy day. |
Not trolling at all. I am probably the biggest Kobe fan here. In the 5 decades that I've been watching basketball, LeBron, Wilt and Shaq rank highly on my list because they are/were physical outliers - they did things at their sizes that human beings cannot do on a basketball court.
Ceteris paribus, if you put those guys on any team those teams will overperform because LBJ/Wilt/Shaq are unguardable and force all 5 defenders to react to them.
I have Wilt and LBJ as 2 & 3 on the list. The ONLY reason Shaq isn't #1 on the list is his piss-poor work ethic. Magic was a physical outlier, as well, but he wasn't the amazing athlete that the other 3 were/are.
It isn't a bash on Kobe - Kobe is the greatest "normal" player I've ever seen. But LBJ is a 6'9" 275# behemoth who can lock down 6'0" PGs, 7'0" Cs, handle like Frazier, run like Wilkins, rebound like Moses Malone and go to the hole like Zeke. He SHOULDN'T even exist, much less be that good.
_________________
On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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HobKobLin
Sixth Man
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | xxsicrokerxx wrote: | | sandeezy wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | In order:
KAJ
WILT
LBJ (yeah, blasphemy)
MJ
Kobe (better shooter than MJ, but not as committed on D later in career)
Magic
Russell (hey, he was surrounded by HOF)
Shaq (should be #1, but poor motor/poor work ethic robbed him)
The BIG O (averaged a triple double over a 400+ game stretch)
Mr. Spock, er, Duncan |
One of the worst top 10 lists I've ever seen in my life. |
Clearly he is trolling, no one can be so.... Wait can't insult anyone. Have a happy day. |
Not trolling at all. I am probably the biggest Kobe fan here. In the 5 decades that I've been watching basketball, LeBron, Wilt and Shaq rank highly on my list because they are/were physical outliers - they did things at their sizes that human beings cannot do on a basketball court.
Ceteris paribus, if you put those guys on any team those teams will overperform because LBJ/Wilt/Shaq are unguardable and force all 5 defenders to react to them.
I have Wilt and LBJ as 2 & 3 on the list. The ONLY reason Shaq isn't #1 on the list is his piss-poor work ethic. Magic was a physical outlier, as well, but he wasn't the amazing athlete that the other 3 were/are.
It isn't a bash on Kobe - Kobe is the greatest "normal" player I've ever seen. But LBJ is a 6'9" 275# behemoth who can lock down 6'0" PGs, 7'0" Cs, handle like Frazier, run like Wilkins, rebound like Moses Malone and go to the hole like Zeke. He SHOULDN'T even exist, much less be that good. |
If your basing your list on who are the biggest physical outliers you're missing a huge part of the equation - the mindset, killer instinct, absolute drive to win - the ultimate competitor. Do any of those describe LBJ - not so much in my mind. They do describe MJ and Kobe and some of the others on your list. |
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HobKobLin
Sixth Man
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| HobKobLin wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | xxsicrokerxx wrote: | | sandeezy wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | In order:
KAJ
WILT
LBJ (yeah, blasphemy)
MJ
Kobe (better shooter than MJ, but not as committed on D later in career)
Magic
Russell (hey, he was surrounded by HOF)
Shaq (should be #1, but poor motor/poor work ethic robbed him)
The BIG O (averaged a triple double over a 400+ game stretch)
Mr. Spock, er, Duncan |
One of the worst top 10 lists I've ever seen in my life. |
Clearly he is trolling, no one can be so.... Wait can't insult anyone. Have a happy day. |
Not trolling at all. I am probably the biggest Kobe fan here. In the 5 decades that I've been watching basketball, LeBron, Wilt and Shaq rank highly on my list because they are/were physical outliers - they did things at their sizes that human beings cannot do on a basketball court.
Ceteris paribus, if you put those guys on any team those teams will overperform because LBJ/Wilt/Shaq are unguardable and force all 5 defenders to react to them.
I have Wilt and LBJ as 2 & 3 on the list. The ONLY reason Shaq isn't #1 on the list is his piss-poor work ethic. Magic was a physical outlier, as well, but he wasn't the amazing athlete that the other 3 were/are.
It isn't a bash on Kobe - Kobe is the greatest "normal" player I've ever seen. But LBJ is a 6'9" 275# behemoth who can lock down 6'0" PGs, 7'0" Cs, handle like Frazier, run like Wilkins, rebound like Moses Malone and go to the hole like Zeke. He SHOULDN'T even exist, much less be that good. |
If your basing your list on who are the biggest physical outliers you're missing a huge part of the equation - the mindset, killer instinct, absolute drive to win - the ultimate competitor. Do any of those describe LBJ - not so much in my mind. They do describe MJ and Kobe and some of the others on your list. |
Let me put it even more succinctly - I don't think LBJ has half the heart MJ did/does. MJ was not only a physical freak but he would do ANYTHING.......ANYTHING to win. One of my favorite things about watching MJ was when he would get blocked/make a mistake on offense - to watch him literally tear down the court the other way you KNEW he was going to make something happen on the other end of the floor. I don't see that fire in LBJ - great player though. |
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gumblin
Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm actually very surprised at the lack of Kobe homerism here - esp regarding MJ  |
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faze
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 924
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | xxsicrokerxx wrote: | | sandeezy wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | In order:
KAJ
WILT
LBJ (yeah, blasphemy)
MJ
Kobe (better shooter than MJ, but not as committed on D later in career)
Magic
Russell (hey, he was surrounded by HOF)
Shaq (should be #1, but poor motor/poor work ethic robbed him)
The BIG O (averaged a triple double over a 400+ game stretch)
Mr. Spock, er, Duncan |
One of the worst top 10 lists I've ever seen in my life. |
Clearly he is trolling, no one can be so.... Wait can't insult anyone. Have a happy day. |
Not trolling at all. I am probably the biggest Kobe fan here. In the 5 decades that I've been watching basketball, LeBron, Wilt and Shaq rank highly on my list because they are/were physical outliers - they did things at their sizes that human beings cannot do on a basketball court.
Ceteris paribus, if you put those guys on any team those teams will overperform because LBJ/Wilt/Shaq are unguardable and force all 5 defenders to react to them.
I have Wilt and LBJ as 2 & 3 on the list. The ONLY reason Shaq isn't #1 on the list is his piss-poor work ethic. Magic was a physical outlier, as well, but he wasn't the amazing athlete that the other 3 were/are.
It isn't a bash on Kobe - Kobe is the greatest "normal" player I've ever seen. But LBJ is a 6'9" 275# behemoth who can lock down 6'0" PGs, 7'0" Cs, handle like Frazier, run like Wilkins, rebound like Moses Malone and go to the hole like Zeke. He SHOULDN'T even exist, much less be that good. |
lol, you are going completely overboard. Yes, Lebron is a physical freak but lets not act like he is unguardable. In fact, he is pretty "easy" to guard. Look at the Spurs in the finals last year... they backed off of him about 8 feet and were daring him to shoot wide open 3 pointers all series and the only time he was able to punish them for it was game 7. He doesn't utilize any sort of midrange game so he basically either drives in for a layup or pulls up for a 20 footer. He is still a good scorer because of his natural talent and skillset but not nearly as prolific of a scorer as you probably think he is. His defense is extremely overrated as well from a man-to-man perspective... and "Heat" fans (the few that are left) have been saying this alot recently. He's an elite team defender, but doesn't have the fundamentals to be an elite man defender. Once again, he is still a good defender but you are overrating him.
It all comes down to effectiveness. Yes, Lebron is the most versatile player of all-time to a certain extent but he is not the most effective player ever.
The fact that you have MJ 4th in your all-time list just goes to show that you are trying to be edgy, and pretty much invalidates all of your opinions. How can anyone take you seriously?
_________________
Kobe Bryant on if he had hit a wall - "So what if I did- I'll go right through it" |
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CHRISTYLE70
Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 3113
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Pgforlife wrote: | | CHRISTYLE70 wrote: | | My eyeball test agrees with Wade and these eyeballs have been fixated on Bball since the 70s Ive only seen one player that I would put ahead of Kobe and thats Mj even though Magic is my favorite Laker of all time. Kobes skill level on offense and defense is ahead of Magic. Magic had the intangibles. |
Magic had the edge on offense on both of them. Coming down the court with the ball, there was no one as feared as Magic. It was like he was teleporting passes at times. And one of Magic's intangibles was that he was a champion from birth. He was destined for greatness. My favorite player of all time. |
Magic may be your favorite player as he is.mine but.in no way besides passing was magic a better offensive player than Kobe, magic was a great floor general wasnt a great shooter and definitely wasnt a great defender but if we are being honest nostalgia helps magic more than it helps Kobe. Magic is seen as a unifier Kobe as a divider. But skill for Skill Magic is behind Kobe. Except Rebounding and Passing. Kobe is probably one of the best post playing guards ever thats really a skill that only him and MJ possesed to perfection. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | xxsicrokerxx wrote: | | sandeezy wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | In order:
KAJ
WILT
LBJ (yeah, blasphemy)
MJ
Kobe (better shooter than MJ, but not as committed on D later in career)
Magic
Russell (hey, he was surrounded by HOF)
Shaq (should be #1, but poor motor/poor work ethic robbed him)
The BIG O (averaged a triple double over a 400+ game stretch)
Mr. Spock, er, Duncan |
One of the worst top 10 lists I've ever seen in my life. |
Clearly he is trolling, no one can be so.... Wait can't insult anyone. Have a happy day. |
Not trolling at all. I am probably the biggest Kobe fan here. In the 5 decades that I've been watching basketball, LeBron, Wilt and Shaq rank highly on my list because they are/were physical outliers - they did things at their sizes that human beings cannot do on a basketball court.
Ceteris paribus, if you put those guys on any team those teams will overperform because LBJ/Wilt/Shaq are unguardable and force all 5 defenders to react to them.
I have Wilt and LBJ as 2 & 3 on the list. The ONLY reason Shaq isn't #1 on the list is his piss-poor work ethic. Magic was a physical outlier, as well, but he wasn't the amazing athlete that the other 3 were/are.
It isn't a bash on Kobe - Kobe is the greatest "normal" player I've ever seen. But LBJ is a 6'9" 275# behemoth who can lock down 6'0" PGs, 7'0" Cs, handle like Frazier, run like Wilkins, rebound like Moses Malone and go to the hole like Zeke. He SHOULDN'T even exist, much less be that good. |
Not even top 20 if you rank him at #5 and behind LBJ. Just sayin'
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Darth Los Angeles
Star Player
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 2181
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Two points...
1. Wade is a follower and not a leader. I will never forget how he "all of a sudden" had a beef with Kobe when Shaq got traded to Miami. He did the whole BS amnesia thing when asked about Kobe and then tried to hurt Kobe's ribs in a game.
2. Wade has himself to blame for the LeTeamHop thing. There is no honor among thieves. Everyone who watches NBA basketball knows that LeTraitor is a selfish yellow belly coward. So I don't know why Wade would expect LeCowardlyLion to behave any different now.
_________________
“There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee |
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Addicus
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | MJ
Wilt
Russ
Cap
Magic
Havlicek
Duncan
Kobe
Bird
Oscar
West |
I don't believe Havlicek, West (said so himself but was probably being extreme humble) or Oscar could dominate vs today's athletes with these crappy rules. I could be wrong and don't want to denigrate any of them or make it seem like these great players are overrated. They all played the game 1 handed and I just don't believe that can succeed at the same level today. In fact, the last dominant one handed player was Clyde Drexler. Jordan was 1.5 handed.
_________________
Stop crying and start doing.
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/addicusbrown |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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2nd best SG of all time for sure, but as it stands now and him likely not finishing with a 6th title or another MVP, it will be a tough case to make for Bryant when his career is over that he is even top 5, let alone top 2. He's somewhere in the 6-10 range for me, which is still outstanding.
I do think if you're going to knock Kobe on anything vs the greats, is that he won less MVP's and that he came up short with some great Shaq teams early on in his career. If Shaq/Kobe "got it" a bit sooner, he probably has 6-7 rings right now.
Of course then there's the argument that Kobe played on some crappy teams in 2004-2007, which of course were prime years he maybe could have a title or two on. Tough to say. Still, I'd say unless something insane happens and Kobe wins another title, it'd be tough for me to rank him in the top 5 as of now. |
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Pgforlife
Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| CHRISTYLE70 wrote: | | Pgforlife wrote: | | CHRISTYLE70 wrote: | | My eyeball test agrees with Wade and these eyeballs have been fixated on Bball since the 70s Ive only seen one player that I would put ahead of Kobe and thats Mj even though Magic is my favorite Laker of all time. Kobes skill level on offense and defense is ahead of Magic. Magic had the intangibles. |
Magic had the edge on offense on both of them. Coming down the court with the ball, there was no one as feared as Magic. It was like he was teleporting passes at times. And one of Magic's intangibles was that he was a champion from birth. He was destined for greatness. My favorite player of all time. |
Magic may be your favorite player as he is.mine but.in no way besides passing was magic a better offensive player than Kobe, magic was a great floor general wasnt a great shooter and definitely wasnt a great defender but if we are being honest nostalgia helps magic more than it helps Kobe. Magic is seen as a unifier Kobe as a divider. But skill for Skill Magic is behind Kobe. Except Rebounding and Passing. Kobe is probably one of the best post playing guards ever thats really a skill that only him and MJ possesed to perfection. |
Skill for skill, MJ would be up top, followed by Kobe, maybe even Kobe first. My criteria is who I'd choose to build my offense around, and I'd pick Magic first without question. You can take any 4 players and put Kobe or Magic in there, and I'd guess that Magic would make the team more potent every time.
And leadership counts for something in team sports, and Magic was the best leader the league has ever seen.
My list of the greatest ever would be 1) Magic, 2) Jordan, 3) Kareem, 4) Bird, 5) Kobe. Just my opinion. |
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Nightwalker
Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 2739
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I see a lot of good list on here. It's going be sad day when Kobe retires in a couple of years.  |
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Truth Teller
Rookie
Joined: 28 Jul 2014
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Couple of things I'm noticing. First and foremost is how delusional Kobe fans are. Every single advanced statistic on Earth will tell you that, not only does Kobe not belong in any discussion for GOAT(LMAO), but he doesn't belong in a top 10 discussion. This is not trolling, it's reality - and it is proven by the numbers. Look at his PER, win shares, defensive rating, on/off, what have you... he just doesn't stack up to the true legends of the game. Add onto that, that by all accounts, he is a team cancer. Phil Jackson, his own coach, alluded to it in his books. And before you say "Jordan was, too" well... Jordan is arguably the GOAT, which Kobe definitely is not and definitely has no argument whatsoever for it based in reality. Lakers have one of the most storied franchises in the NBA, yet no free agents wanted to come. Why do you think that is? It's because of Kobe. Both Dwight Howard AND Pau Gasol left for less money to play elsewhere, too. There's just way too many things that tell you Kobe Bryant being a supposed legend is a farce. And as more and more advanced stats come out, his legend will only continue to diminish.
Second, can anyone really take a top 10 or top 5 list with Russell ahead of Wilt Chamberlain seriously? I mean, Wilt Chamberlain ate Bill Russell for dinner on a regular basis. You don't even need to be old as dirt to realize this, just do some research. If you're going to say a player who was a near liability on one end of the court is even comparable to a player who was the most dominant force in the game, on both ends, well... then... I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's got 11 rings. He got them coattailing superior teammates. Kind of like Kobe. Neither of them belong in any top 10 all-time great lists.
1) Wilt
2) Jordan
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) LeBron
6) Hakeem
7) Bird
8) Magic
9) Shaq
10) David Robinson |
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LakersMDGurl
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 18015
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Darth Los Angeles wrote: | Two points...
1. Wade is a follower and not a leader. I will never forget how he "all of a sudden" had a beef with Kobe when Shaq got traded to Miami. He did the whole BS amnesia thing when asked about Kobe and then tried to hurt Kobe's ribs in a game.
2. Wade has himself to blame for the LeTeamHop thing. There is no honor among thieves. Everyone who watches NBA basketball knows that LeTraitor is a selfish yellow belly coward. So I don't know why Wade would expect LeCowardlyLion to behave any different now. |
Lmaooo, i have never seen one person give LeBron 3 names in one post!!!! HAhahah, you outdid yourself....
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New Beginings |
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alexjlake_gr8t
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 599
Location: SAN DOG...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Truth Teller wrote: | Couple of things I'm noticing. First and foremost is how delusional Kobe fans are. Every single advanced statistic on Earth will tell you that, not only does Kobe not belong in any discussion for GOAT(LMAO), but he doesn't belong in a top 10 discussion. This is not trolling, it's reality - and it is proven by the numbers. Look at his PER, win shares, defensive rating, on/off, what have you... he just doesn't stack up to the true legends of the game. Add onto that, that by all accounts, he is a team cancer. Phil Jackson, his own coach, alluded to it in his books. And before you say "Jordan was, too" well... Jordan is arguably the GOAT, which Kobe definitely is not and definitely has no argument whatsoever for it based in reality. Lakers have one of the most storied franchises in the NBA, yet no free agents wanted to come. Why do you think that is? It's because of Kobe. Both Dwight Howard AND Pau Gasol left for less money to play elsewhere, too. There's just way too many things that tell you Kobe Bryant being a supposed legend is a farce. And as more and more advanced stats come out, his legend will only continue to diminish.
Second, can anyone really take a top 10 or top 5 list with Russell ahead of Wilt Chamberlain seriously? I mean, Wilt Chamberlain ate Bill Russell for dinner on a regular basis. You don't even need to be old as dirt to realize this, just do some research. If you're going to say a player who was a near liability on one end of the court is even comparable to a player who was the most dominant force in the game, on both ends, well... then... I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's got 11 rings. He got them coattailing superior teammates. Kind of like Kobe. Neither of them belong in any top 10 all-time great lists.
1) Wilt
2) Jordan
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) LeBron
6) Hakeem
7) Bird
8) Magic
9) Shaq
10) David Robinson |
You're 'Inciteful' post is refreshing and rarely seen in these parts  You mention none of the superstar free agents that wanted to play with Kobe. Please enlighten us as to how many rings those that were courted in free agency other than Garnett that have won w/out Kobe? Garnett went to a place in Boston where he was the undeniable #1 option, not the 'Truth' and I dont blame him one bit. CP3 was ECSTATIC about becoming a Laker bfor it got blown up. Boozer got Haley'd...Melo also from years ago...etc, etc I could go on. Howard is not Laker material, never was, even though HE WANTED to come here years ago. Pau does not count as his ass was on the blotter the last few years due to p-ss poor performance. Your statement akin to your choice in username is truly delusional...just my opinion.. 
_________________
Quote from 12/15/15 vs Bucks:
At least this is the last time we'll have to witness it. have at it Kobe. |
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alexjlake_gr8t
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 599
Location: SAN DOG...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | Two points...
1. Wade is a follower and not a leader. I will never forget how he "all of a sudden" had a beef with Kobe when Shaq got traded to Miami. He did the whole BS amnesia thing when asked about Kobe and then tried to hurt Kobe's ribs in a game.
2. Wade has himself to blame for the LeTeamHop thing. There is no honor among thieves. Everyone who watches NBA basketball knows that LeTraitor is a selfish yellow belly coward. So I don't know why Wade would expect LeCowardlyLion to behave any different now. |
Lmaooo, i have never seen one person give LeBron 3 names in one post!!!! HAhahah, you outdid yourself.... |
 
_________________
Quote from 12/15/15 vs Bucks:
At least this is the last time we'll have to witness it. have at it Kobe. |
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Darth Los Angeles
Star Player
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 2181
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | Two points...
1. Wade is a follower and not a leader. I will never forget how he "all of a sudden" had a beef with Kobe when Shaq got traded to Miami. He did the whole BS amnesia thing when asked about Kobe and then tried to hurt Kobe's ribs in a game.
2. Wade has himself to blame for the LeTeamHop thing. There is no honor among thieves. Everyone who watches NBA basketball knows that LeTraitor is a selfish yellow belly coward. So I don't know why Wade would expect LeCowardlyLion to behave any different now. |
Lmaooo, i have never seen one person give LeBron 3 names in one post!!!! HAhahah, you outdid yourself.... |
I strive for excellence!!!
_________________
“There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee |
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chubby_1_kenobi
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1450
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Truth Teller wrote: | Couple of things I'm noticing. First and foremost is how delusional Kobe fans are. Every single advanced statistic on Earth will tell you that, not only does Kobe not belong in any discussion for GOAT(LMAO), but he doesn't belong in a top 10 discussion. This is not trolling, it's reality - and it is proven by the numbers. Look at his PER, win shares, defensive rating, on/off, what have you... he just doesn't stack up to the true legends of the game. Add onto that, that by all accounts, he is a team cancer. Phil Jackson, his own coach, alluded to it in his books. And before you say "Jordan was, too" well... Jordan is arguably the GOAT, which Kobe definitely is not and definitely has no argument whatsoever for it based in reality. Lakers have one of the most storied franchises in the NBA, yet no free agents wanted to come. Why do you think that is? It's because of Kobe. Both Dwight Howard AND Pau Gasol left for less money to play elsewhere, too. There's just way too many things that tell you Kobe Bryant being a supposed legend is a farce. And as more and more advanced stats come out, his legend will only continue to diminish.
Second, can anyone really take a top 10 or top 5 list with Russell ahead of Wilt Chamberlain seriously? I mean, Wilt Chamberlain ate Bill Russell for dinner on a regular basis. You don't even need to be old as dirt to realize this, just do some research. If you're going to say a player who was a near liability on one end of the court is even comparable to a player who was the most dominant force in the game, on both ends, well... then... I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's got 11 rings. He got them coattailing superior teammates. Kind of like Kobe. Neither of them belong in any top 10 all-time great lists.
1) Wilt
2) Jordan
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) LeBron
6) Hakeem
7) Bird
8) Magic
9) Shaq
10) David Robinson |
So stars don't want to play with Kobe but at the same time he only wins because of superior teammates.
Yeah, a contradiction like that render the rest of your post worthless.
You may wish Kobe's legendary career to diminish for whatever personal reason but I think the opposite will happen.
Once the detractors let the personal hatred go, his skill and approach to the game will be further magnified for the next generations of fans.
He will be labelled the last of a dying breed of true superstar, true alpha male and true winner because how sick and tired fans are going to be with current stars colluding to play with each other.
As for delusional, you're the perfect fit because you truly believe you are telling the truth. lol!
_________________
Eighth grade key phrases are crucial tools for this type of subterfuge: "team player", "make teammates better", "ballhog", "selfish", "court vision": all dripping with sanctimony and defamation. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Addicus wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | MJ
Wilt
Russ
Cap
Magic
Havlicek
Duncan
Kobe
Bird
Oscar
West |
I don't believe Havlicek, West (said so himself but was probably being extreme humble) or Oscar could dominate vs today's athletes with these crappy rules. I could be wrong and don't want to denigrate any of them or make it seem like these great players are overrated. They all played the game 1 handed and I just don't believe that can succeed at the same level today. In fact, the last dominant one handed player was Clyde Drexler. Jordan was 1.5 handed. |
I'm not impressed by GOAT analyses produced using the standard of "who'd dominate today ?." It doesn't measure all-time greatness well enough for me. Player greatness is very era-specific and as a result, all-time greatness relates to the level of era domination. Havlicek's work is very able to be judged as equal to - or greater than - that of Kobe Bryant. |
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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| LHQ wrote: | | I think it was a hit to Lebron, mind you. |
Yeah, I dont trust Wade and his ulterior motives. It was definitely a shot at Lebron. He probably doesn't really believe what he said, since I wouldn't be surprised if deep inside, he's arrogant enough to think he's a better SG than Kobe.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe's true GOAT ranking is the average of Laker fans' ranking and Kings/Spurs/Celtics fans ranking. |
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dmills
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 3711
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Truth Teller wrote: | Couple of things I'm noticing. First and foremost is how delusional Kobe fans are. Every single advanced statistic on Earth will tell you that, not only does Kobe not belong in any discussion for GOAT(LMAO), but he doesn't belong in a top 10 discussion. This is not trolling, it's reality - and it is proven by the numbers. Look at his PER, win shares, defensive rating, on/off, what have you... he just doesn't stack up to the true legends of the game. Add onto that, that by all accounts, he is a team cancer. Phil Jackson, his own coach, alluded to it in his books. And before you say "Jordan was, too" well... Jordan is arguably the GOAT, which Kobe definitely is not and definitely has no argument whatsoever for it based in reality. Lakers have one of the most storied franchises in the NBA, yet no free agents wanted to come. Why do you think that is? It's because of Kobe. Both Dwight Howard AND Pau Gasol left for less money to play elsewhere, too. There's just way too many things that tell you Kobe Bryant being a supposed legend is a farce. And as more and more advanced stats come out, his legend will only continue to diminish.
Second, can anyone really take a top 10 or top 5 list with Russell ahead of Wilt Chamberlain seriously? I mean, Wilt Chamberlain ate Bill Russell for dinner on a regular basis. You don't even need to be old as dirt to realize this, just do some research. If you're going to say a player who was a near liability on one end of the court is even comparable to a player who was the most dominant force in the game, on both ends, well... then... I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's got 11 rings. He got them coattailing superior teammates. Kind of like Kobe. Neither of them belong in any top 10 all-time great lists.
1) Wilt
2) Jordan
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) LeBron
6) Hakeem
7) Bird
8) Magic
9) Shaq
10) David Robinson |
It's that you Henry Abbott lol?
_________________
A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| dmills wrote: | | Truth Teller wrote: | Couple of things I'm noticing. First and foremost is how delusional Kobe fans are. Every single advanced statistic on Earth will tell you that, not only does Kobe not belong in any discussion for GOAT(LMAO), but he doesn't belong in a top 10 discussion. This is not trolling, it's reality - and it is proven by the numbers. Look at his PER, win shares, defensive rating, on/off, what have you... he just doesn't stack up to the true legends of the game. Add onto that, that by all accounts, he is a team cancer. Phil Jackson, his own coach, alluded to it in his books. And before you say "Jordan was, too" well... Jordan is arguably the GOAT, which Kobe definitely is not and definitely has no argument whatsoever for it based in reality. Lakers have one of the most storied franchises in the NBA, yet no free agents wanted to come. Why do you think that is? It's because of Kobe. Both Dwight Howard AND Pau Gasol left for less money to play elsewhere, too. There's just way too many things that tell you Kobe Bryant being a supposed legend is a farce. And as more and more advanced stats come out, his legend will only continue to diminish.
Second, can anyone really take a top 10 or top 5 list with Russell ahead of Wilt Chamberlain seriously? I mean, Wilt Chamberlain ate Bill Russell for dinner on a regular basis. You don't even need to be old as dirt to realize this, just do some research. If you're going to say a player who was a near liability on one end of the court is even comparable to a player who was the most dominant force in the game, on both ends, well... then... I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's got 11 rings. He got them coattailing superior teammates. Kind of like Kobe. Neither of them belong in any top 10 all-time great lists.
1) Wilt
2) Jordan
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) LeBron
6) Hakeem
7) Bird
8) Magic
9) Shaq
10) David Robinson |
It's that you Henry Abbott lol? |
I'm sorry. The troll that you are trying to reach has been disconnected and is no longer in service. If you think you have reached this message in error, please long on to SpursTalk and send your messgae there. |
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dmills
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 3711
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Lol. Good one.
_________________
A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29331
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Truth Teller wrote: | Couple of things I'm noticing. First and foremost is how delusional Kobe fans are. Every single advanced statistic on Earth will tell you that, not only does Kobe not belong in any discussion for GOAT(LMAO), but he doesn't belong in a top 10 discussion. This is not trolling, it's reality - and it is proven by the numbers. Look at his PER, win shares, defensive rating, on/off, what have you... he just doesn't stack up to the true legends of the game. Add onto that, that by all accounts, he is a team cancer. Phil Jackson, his own coach, alluded to it in his books. And before you say "Jordan was, too" well... Jordan is arguably the GOAT, which Kobe definitely is not and definitely has no argument whatsoever for it based in reality. Lakers have one of the most storied franchises in the NBA, yet no free agents wanted to come. Why do you think that is? It's because of Kobe. Both Dwight Howard AND Pau Gasol left for less money to play elsewhere, too. There's just way too many things that tell you Kobe Bryant being a supposed legend is a farce. And as more and more advanced stats come out, his legend will only continue to diminish.
Second, can anyone really take a top 10 or top 5 list with Russell ahead of Wilt Chamberlain seriously? I mean, Wilt Chamberlain ate Bill Russell for dinner on a regular basis. You don't even need to be old as dirt to realize this, just do some research. If you're going to say a player who was a near liability on one end of the court is even comparable to a player who was the most dominant force in the game, on both ends, well... then... I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, he's got 11 rings. He got them coattailing superior teammates. Kind of like Kobe. Neither of them belong in any top 10 all-time great lists.
1) Wilt
2) Jordan
3) Kareem
4) Duncan
5) LeBron
6) Hakeem
7) Bird
8) Magic
9) Shaq
10) David Robinson |
Trolling Laker fans in your second post?
Referencing old Phil Jackson criticisms while ignoring the positive evolution of Phil and Kobe's relationship?
Not factoring in championships when deciding your top 10?
Blaming kobe for not getting FA's to come (like he's a GM or something)?
These are just a few of the things wrong with your post.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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