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Fruscas
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Joined: 12 Mar 2013
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
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Clutch24
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 795
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
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Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
True that remains to be seen whether the cavs coach will be successful. And Lebron being in his prime skews any results for blatt. |
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kaoss128
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Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 13058
Location: Morgantown, WV
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Ryan Kelly is a better player than Davis and at this point Randle. He deserves playing time |
Uh what? |
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Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kaoss128 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Ryan Kelly is a better player than Davis and at this point Randle. He deserves playing time |
Uh what? |
What don't you understand?
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Fruscas
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 5130
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
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BobbyB
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Posts: 2489
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
Blatt, just like spoelstra will be considered this great coach just because he has lebron! He will win coach of the year people will overrate him. Any coach that has lebron is gonna have great results |
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LuciusAllen
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 5787
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LADYNASTY wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | Now that the dust has settled, here are my thoughts on the Byron Scott hire. First of all, I really do wish Byron the best and hope that he proves me and the other doubters wrong. I'd love for him to be a success here. However, having said that, I just don’t feel like he's the right guy for the job. I have been opposed to this hire since it was first reported that the Lakers were interested. I feel like it is a cheap ploy to get fans excited about what would otherwise be a mediocre team at best. And to gloss over the fact that management has failed to attract star players and build a winning team. Instead Lakers fans are now nostalgic about the good ol' days of Showtime and "Lakers pride" is back apparently. To me, that was the true purpose of this hire. It wasn't about finding the right coach. It was about finding someone that would make the fan base remember the glory days, while this team treads water for the next 3-5 years.
Give Byron credit too, he sold them and the fans on everything they wanted to hear. His press conference was a great example of that. All the buzzwords that fans were screaming for the last couple years were mentioned. Defense, effort, winning, pride, etc. Of course there is nothing wrong with mentioning defense and effort, but therein lies the problem with Byron as the head coach. Despite his claims of being a strong defensive coach, Scott's teams were never that good defensively. And I can't take a coach seriously when he talks about effort when he has coached a team that lost 26 games in a row. Not to mention playoff blowouts on top of that. So now fans can get excited because we have the "Anti-D'Antoni", someone who preaches defense and holds players accountable. That’s what we all wanted. Just like that, we are back on the right track! In actuality, I still think we have a coach who will do no better than the previous Mike's did in their time here. Scott's resume shows that he's no better than our previous two coaches. And I understand that our team’s talent will prevent us from competing at a high level, which is not Byron's fault. However he is not the guy to get this team playing above its potential. He has shown to be an average coach at best.
I am probably in the minority now with my views on this hire. I feel like the Lakers management is trying to sell me on an old sports car that’s supposed to invoke a sense of nostalgia, but instead I’m being sold a sports car with serious problems under the hood. In that sense, it’s a little frustrating because they (Lakers mgmt) think that I'll just look past all that and give into the feelings of the glory days. I'm not buying it. Besides being a Lakers fan, I am also a fan of other sports teams that have traditionally been poorly managed. This is what poorly managed teams do. They hire people who are not necessarily the most qualified, but get the fan base fired up. Whether it’s former players or a "rah-rah" type of coach. They hire these guys because they can't attract better coaches, they are too cheap, or they are not smart enough to see potential in lesser known coaches. I hope I am wrong about all of this though, and I hope Byron does wonderfully here. I've met him in person, and he's very genuine and polite. I do wish him the best. Unfortunately, I just don't feel like he's the right guy for this team. |
Interesting post. I think that, in terms of a coaching hire, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. For example, you state (accurately) that the team is just not equipped to be able to compete at a very high level, but then state that you think that Byron won't get them to overachieve. Since we Laker fans expect nothing less than championships, and this roster is not talented enough to win a championship, then there's really no difference between a first round playoff exit and being in the lottery. One would be overachieving, yet it still would not satisfy Laker fans.
So what Byron needs to focus on may not be the end result, but rather, the journey. The journey includes fielding a team that plays hard and with pride every night and competes on defense. Also, he needs to develop the younger players we do have, so that they can be valuable contributors to a true contending team a few years from now. If he does all that, and gives the franchise a little bit of vintage shine in the process, then he'll have done all he can do for now.
If he does his job well, then when we're actually ready to compete, be it in 1 year or 5, he will still be here and he will have put a stamp on the team that all fans can be proud of.
Winning will just be gravy for now. You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way it is. |
In a nutshell, without going into too much detail, what I think the Lakers front office should have done is hire an outside the box type of coach. I think hiring Scott shows that the front office was looking for someone who had some goodwill built up with the fan base, and could take focus off management for their "shortcomings" in putting together a more competitive roster. They're hoping Scott will buy them a few years of mediocrity while they can try and lure/trade for a superstar. That's my belief at least.
That does not really answer your question though, as far as "wanting my cake and eating it too". I understand dynasties end and every team rebuilds. I'm not of the hard-lined stance that the Lakers don't rebuild, they "reload". Ideally, that'd be great, but I understand that's not always possible. If I'm to accept that this is the Lakers roster then I expect that this team will struggle to make the playoffs. However, I can accept that and still be optimistic or disappointed with how they perform. If they miss the playoffs, but are still playing good defense, Randle develops, Davis shows his potential then I'd say Scott did a good job. If this season is about letting Kobe prove to the league that he's still great and he puts up 25 shots a game at the expense of other players development then I'll deem it a failure on Scott's part.
So in a sense I agree that Scott's job is to maybe bridge the gap till this team has the talent to compete. Along the way he can teach these young guys how to play and develop them. However I think that was Scott's job responsibilities in Cleveland. How did that work? They did not play defense, they did not compete and as far as I can tell, nobody else really developed on that team. My line of thinking, which may be flawed, is; let's see what someone else has to offer. Let’s give someone a shot that is smart, young, and can look at the game differently then these other coaches who keep getting jobs and subsequently fired 2-3 years later. |
I understand that perspective.
It may boil down to the fact that the Lakers were stuck between a rock and a hard place. And the rock is Kobe. How do you tell Kobe that the last two years of his glorious career are going to be focused on roster positioning and young player development? The answer is, you don't. So they picked a coach who could communicate with Kobe and also potentially teach the young players how to play "the Laker Way."
I'm not sure Kobe or the other Laker illuminati would have been pleased with a David Blatt-style hiring. A coach like that would be starting off with at least one strike against him. And then run out of town because he couldn't help Kobe win during at the end of his career, even though Kobe probably wouldn't have listened to the coach as much as he'll listen to Byron. |
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LADYNASTY
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | Now that the dust has settled, here are my thoughts on the Byron Scott hire. First of all, I really do wish Byron the best and hope that he proves me and the other doubters wrong. I'd love for him to be a success here. However, having said that, I just don’t feel like he's the right guy for the job. I have been opposed to this hire since it was first reported that the Lakers were interested. I feel like it is a cheap ploy to get fans excited about what would otherwise be a mediocre team at best. And to gloss over the fact that management has failed to attract star players and build a winning team. Instead Lakers fans are now nostalgic about the good ol' days of Showtime and "Lakers pride" is back apparently. To me, that was the true purpose of this hire. It wasn't about finding the right coach. It was about finding someone that would make the fan base remember the glory days, while this team treads water for the next 3-5 years.
Give Byron credit too, he sold them and the fans on everything they wanted to hear. His press conference was a great example of that. All the buzzwords that fans were screaming for the last couple years were mentioned. Defense, effort, winning, pride, etc. Of course there is nothing wrong with mentioning defense and effort, but therein lies the problem with Byron as the head coach. Despite his claims of being a strong defensive coach, Scott's teams were never that good defensively. And I can't take a coach seriously when he talks about effort when he has coached a team that lost 26 games in a row. Not to mention playoff blowouts on top of that. So now fans can get excited because we have the "Anti-D'Antoni", someone who preaches defense and holds players accountable. That’s what we all wanted. Just like that, we are back on the right track! In actuality, I still think we have a coach who will do no better than the previous Mike's did in their time here. Scott's resume shows that he's no better than our previous two coaches. And I understand that our team’s talent will prevent us from competing at a high level, which is not Byron's fault. However he is not the guy to get this team playing above its potential. He has shown to be an average coach at best.
I am probably in the minority now with my views on this hire. I feel like the Lakers management is trying to sell me on an old sports car that’s supposed to invoke a sense of nostalgia, but instead I’m being sold a sports car with serious problems under the hood. In that sense, it’s a little frustrating because they (Lakers mgmt) think that I'll just look past all that and give into the feelings of the glory days. I'm not buying it. Besides being a Lakers fan, I am also a fan of other sports teams that have traditionally been poorly managed. This is what poorly managed teams do. They hire people who are not necessarily the most qualified, but get the fan base fired up. Whether it’s former players or a "rah-rah" type of coach. They hire these guys because they can't attract better coaches, they are too cheap, or they are not smart enough to see potential in lesser known coaches. I hope I am wrong about all of this though, and I hope Byron does wonderfully here. I've met him in person, and he's very genuine and polite. I do wish him the best. Unfortunately, I just don't feel like he's the right guy for this team. |
Interesting post. I think that, in terms of a coaching hire, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. For example, you state (accurately) that the team is just not equipped to be able to compete at a very high level, but then state that you think that Byron won't get them to overachieve. Since we Laker fans expect nothing less than championships, and this roster is not talented enough to win a championship, then there's really no difference between a first round playoff exit and being in the lottery. One would be overachieving, yet it still would not satisfy Laker fans.
So what Byron needs to focus on may not be the end result, but rather, the journey. The journey includes fielding a team that plays hard and with pride every night and competes on defense. Also, he needs to develop the younger players we do have, so that they can be valuable contributors to a true contending team a few years from now. If he does all that, and gives the franchise a little bit of vintage shine in the process, then he'll have done all he can do for now.
If he does his job well, then when we're actually ready to compete, be it in 1 year or 5, he will still be here and he will have put a stamp on the team that all fans can be proud of.
Winning will just be gravy for now. You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way it is. |
In a nutshell, without going into too much detail, what I think the Lakers front office should have done is hire an outside the box type of coach. I think hiring Scott shows that the front office was looking for someone who had some goodwill built up with the fan base, and could take focus off management for their "shortcomings" in putting together a more competitive roster. They're hoping Scott will buy them a few years of mediocrity while they can try and lure/trade for a superstar. That's my belief at least.
That does not really answer your question though, as far as "wanting my cake and eating it too". I understand dynasties end and every team rebuilds. I'm not of the hard-lined stance that the Lakers don't rebuild, they "reload". Ideally, that'd be great, but I understand that's not always possible. If I'm to accept that this is the Lakers roster then I expect that this team will struggle to make the playoffs. However, I can accept that and still be optimistic or disappointed with how they perform. If they miss the playoffs, but are still playing good defense, Randle develops, Davis shows his potential then I'd say Scott did a good job. If this season is about letting Kobe prove to the league that he's still great and he puts up 25 shots a game at the expense of other players development then I'll deem it a failure on Scott's part.
So in a sense I agree that Scott's job is to maybe bridge the gap till this team has the talent to compete. Along the way he can teach these young guys how to play and develop them. However I think that was Scott's job responsibilities in Cleveland. How did that work? They did not play defense, they did not compete and as far as I can tell, nobody else really developed on that team. My line of thinking, which may be flawed, is; let's see what someone else has to offer. Let’s give someone a shot that is smart, young, and can look at the game differently then these other coaches who keep getting jobs and subsequently fired 2-3 years later. |
I understand that perspective.
It may boil down to the fact that the Lakers were stuck between a rock and a hard place. And the rock is Kobe. How do you tell Kobe that the last two years of his glorious career are going to be focused on roster positioning and young player development? The answer is, you don't. So they picked a coach who could communicate with Kobe and also potentially teach the young players how to play "the Laker Way."
I'm not sure Kobe or the other Laker illuminati would have been pleased with a David Blatt-style hiring. A coach like that would be starting off with at least one strike against him. And then run out of town because he couldn't help Kobe win during at the end of his career, even though Kobe probably wouldn't have listened to the coach as much as he'll listen to Byron. |
I don't want to open a whole other can of worms with my comments. I'll just say that at this point in his career and with his contract, Kobe should accept that this team is going to be middle of the road at best until after he retires. Coaches shouldn't be hired based on Kobe's admiration for them. D'Antoni was supposedly very well respected by Kobe before being hired. Look how that turned out. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
LoL
Such detailed logic there. Information overload. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| LADYNASTY wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | Now that the dust has settled, here are my thoughts on the Byron Scott hire. First of all, I really do wish Byron the best and hope that he proves me and the other doubters wrong. I'd love for him to be a success here. However, having said that, I just don’t feel like he's the right guy for the job. I have been opposed to this hire since it was first reported that the Lakers were interested. I feel like it is a cheap ploy to get fans excited about what would otherwise be a mediocre team at best. And to gloss over the fact that management has failed to attract star players and build a winning team. Instead Lakers fans are now nostalgic about the good ol' days of Showtime and "Lakers pride" is back apparently. To me, that was the true purpose of this hire. It wasn't about finding the right coach. It was about finding someone that would make the fan base remember the glory days, while this team treads water for the next 3-5 years.
Give Byron credit too, he sold them and the fans on everything they wanted to hear. His press conference was a great example of that. All the buzzwords that fans were screaming for the last couple years were mentioned. Defense, effort, winning, pride, etc. Of course there is nothing wrong with mentioning defense and effort, but therein lies the problem with Byron as the head coach. Despite his claims of being a strong defensive coach, Scott's teams were never that good defensively. And I can't take a coach seriously when he talks about effort when he has coached a team that lost 26 games in a row. Not to mention playoff blowouts on top of that. So now fans can get excited because we have the "Anti-D'Antoni", someone who preaches defense and holds players accountable. That’s what we all wanted. Just like that, we are back on the right track! In actuality, I still think we have a coach who will do no better than the previous Mike's did in their time here. Scott's resume shows that he's no better than our previous two coaches. And I understand that our team’s talent will prevent us from competing at a high level, which is not Byron's fault. However he is not the guy to get this team playing above its potential. He has shown to be an average coach at best.
I am probably in the minority now with my views on this hire. I feel like the Lakers management is trying to sell me on an old sports car that’s supposed to invoke a sense of nostalgia, but instead I’m being sold a sports car with serious problems under the hood. In that sense, it’s a little frustrating because they (Lakers mgmt) think that I'll just look past all that and give into the feelings of the glory days. I'm not buying it. Besides being a Lakers fan, I am also a fan of other sports teams that have traditionally been poorly managed. This is what poorly managed teams do. They hire people who are not necessarily the most qualified, but get the fan base fired up. Whether it’s former players or a "rah-rah" type of coach. They hire these guys because they can't attract better coaches, they are too cheap, or they are not smart enough to see potential in lesser known coaches. I hope I am wrong about all of this though, and I hope Byron does wonderfully here. I've met him in person, and he's very genuine and polite. I do wish him the best. Unfortunately, I just don't feel like he's the right guy for this team. |
Interesting post. I think that, in terms of a coaching hire, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. For example, you state (accurately) that the team is just not equipped to be able to compete at a very high level, but then state that you think that Byron won't get them to overachieve. Since we Laker fans expect nothing less than championships, and this roster is not talented enough to win a championship, then there's really no difference between a first round playoff exit and being in the lottery. One would be overachieving, yet it still would not satisfy Laker fans.
So what Byron needs to focus on may not be the end result, but rather, the journey. The journey includes fielding a team that plays hard and with pride every night and competes on defense. Also, he needs to develop the younger players we do have, so that they can be valuable contributors to a true contending team a few years from now. If he does all that, and gives the franchise a little bit of vintage shine in the process, then he'll have done all he can do for now.
If he does his job well, then when we're actually ready to compete, be it in 1 year or 5, he will still be here and he will have put a stamp on the team that all fans can be proud of.
Winning will just be gravy for now. You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way it is. |
In a nutshell, without going into too much detail, what I think the Lakers front office should have done is hire an outside the box type of coach. I think hiring Scott shows that the front office was looking for someone who had some goodwill built up with the fan base, and could take focus off management for their "shortcomings" in putting together a more competitive roster. They're hoping Scott will buy them a few years of mediocrity while they can try and lure/trade for a superstar. That's my belief at least.
That does not really answer your question though, as far as "wanting my cake and eating it too". I understand dynasties end and every team rebuilds. I'm not of the hard-lined stance that the Lakers don't rebuild, they "reload". Ideally, that'd be great, but I understand that's not always possible. If I'm to accept that this is the Lakers roster then I expect that this team will struggle to make the playoffs. However, I can accept that and still be optimistic or disappointed with how they perform. If they miss the playoffs, but are still playing good defense, Randle develops, Davis shows his potential then I'd say Scott did a good job. If this season is about letting Kobe prove to the league that he's still great and he puts up 25 shots a game at the expense of other players development then I'll deem it a failure on Scott's part.
So in a sense I agree that Scott's job is to maybe bridge the gap till this team has the talent to compete. Along the way he can teach these young guys how to play and develop them. However I think that was Scott's job responsibilities in Cleveland. How did that work? They did not play defense, they did not compete and as far as I can tell, nobody else really developed on that team. My line of thinking, which may be flawed, is; let's see what someone else has to offer. Let’s give someone a shot that is smart, young, and can look at the game differently then these other coaches who keep getting jobs and subsequently fired 2-3 years later. |
I understand that perspective.
It may boil down to the fact that the Lakers were stuck between a rock and a hard place. And the rock is Kobe. How do you tell Kobe that the last two years of his glorious career are going to be focused on roster positioning and young player development? The answer is, you don't. So they picked a coach who could communicate with Kobe and also potentially teach the young players how to play "the Laker Way."
I'm not sure Kobe or the other Laker illuminati would have been pleased with a David Blatt-style hiring. A coach like that would be starting off with at least one strike against him. And then run out of town because he couldn't help Kobe win during at the end of his career, even though Kobe probably wouldn't have listened to the coach as much as he'll listen to Byron. |
I don't want to open a whole other can of worms with my comments. I'll just say that at this point in his career and with his contract, Kobe should accept that this team is going to be middle of the road at best until after he retires. Coaches shouldn't be hired based on Kobe's admiration for them. D'Antoni was supposedly very well respected by Kobe before being hired. Look how that turned out. |
Guys like Kobe can never "accept" being middle of the road. Neither can guys like Scott.
That may be the end result but it won't be because they accept it. They will come at it like they are going to win. |
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Fruscas
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 5130
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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look for some david blatt coached teams on youtube, take a look at the number of titles he has won, at what other coaches and players say about him...
He has a great basketball mind, something that Byron doesnt have, but then again, he might not need one to have some success as Lakers coach. He isnt the coach that will lead the Lakers to the next championships though. |
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Clutch24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 795
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
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Fruscas
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 5130
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
Im not in this board to please no one, nor do i have to justify myself. I eventually will if im in the mood, although i usually do lack the patience. |
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yammy1688
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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this is why it's gonna work out just fine this time around. he actually has a player that will do the whipping for him...one that other players, particularly all the potential young studs we've got, HAVE to listen to.
| Reflexx wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | | LuciusAllen wrote: | | LADYNASTY wrote: | Now that the dust has settled, here are my thoughts on the Byron Scott hire. First of all, I really do wish Byron the best and hope that he proves me and the other doubters wrong. I'd love for him to be a success here. However, having said that, I just don’t feel like he's the right guy for the job. I have been opposed to this hire since it was first reported that the Lakers were interested. I feel like it is a cheap ploy to get fans excited about what would otherwise be a mediocre team at best. And to gloss over the fact that management has failed to attract star players and build a winning team. Instead Lakers fans are now nostalgic about the good ol' days of Showtime and "Lakers pride" is back apparently. To me, that was the true purpose of this hire. It wasn't about finding the right coach. It was about finding someone that would make the fan base remember the glory days, while this team treads water for the next 3-5 years.
Give Byron credit too, he sold them and the fans on everything they wanted to hear. His press conference was a great example of that. All the buzzwords that fans were screaming for the last couple years were mentioned. Defense, effort, winning, pride, etc. Of course there is nothing wrong with mentioning defense and effort, but therein lies the problem with Byron as the head coach. Despite his claims of being a strong defensive coach, Scott's teams were never that good defensively. And I can't take a coach seriously when he talks about effort when he has coached a team that lost 26 games in a row. Not to mention playoff blowouts on top of that. So now fans can get excited because we have the "Anti-D'Antoni", someone who preaches defense and holds players accountable. That’s what we all wanted. Just like that, we are back on the right track! In actuality, I still think we have a coach who will do no better than the previous Mike's did in their time here. Scott's resume shows that he's no better than our previous two coaches. And I understand that our team’s talent will prevent us from competing at a high level, which is not Byron's fault. However he is not the guy to get this team playing above its potential. He has shown to be an average coach at best.
I am probably in the minority now with my views on this hire. I feel like the Lakers management is trying to sell me on an old sports car that’s supposed to invoke a sense of nostalgia, but instead I’m being sold a sports car with serious problems under the hood. In that sense, it’s a little frustrating because they (Lakers mgmt) think that I'll just look past all that and give into the feelings of the glory days. I'm not buying it. Besides being a Lakers fan, I am also a fan of other sports teams that have traditionally been poorly managed. This is what poorly managed teams do. They hire people who are not necessarily the most qualified, but get the fan base fired up. Whether it’s former players or a "rah-rah" type of coach. They hire these guys because they can't attract better coaches, they are too cheap, or they are not smart enough to see potential in lesser known coaches. I hope I am wrong about all of this though, and I hope Byron does wonderfully here. I've met him in person, and he's very genuine and polite. I do wish him the best. Unfortunately, I just don't feel like he's the right guy for this team. |
Interesting post. I think that, in terms of a coaching hire, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. For example, you state (accurately) that the team is just not equipped to be able to compete at a very high level, but then state that you think that Byron won't get them to overachieve. Since we Laker fans expect nothing less than championships, and this roster is not talented enough to win a championship, then there's really no difference between a first round playoff exit and being in the lottery. One would be overachieving, yet it still would not satisfy Laker fans.
So what Byron needs to focus on may not be the end result, but rather, the journey. The journey includes fielding a team that plays hard and with pride every night and competes on defense. Also, he needs to develop the younger players we do have, so that they can be valuable contributors to a true contending team a few years from now. If he does all that, and gives the franchise a little bit of vintage shine in the process, then he'll have done all he can do for now.
If he does his job well, then when we're actually ready to compete, be it in 1 year or 5, he will still be here and he will have put a stamp on the team that all fans can be proud of.
Winning will just be gravy for now. You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way it is. |
In a nutshell, without going into too much detail, what I think the Lakers front office should have done is hire an outside the box type of coach. I think hiring Scott shows that the front office was looking for someone who had some goodwill built up with the fan base, and could take focus off management for their "shortcomings" in putting together a more competitive roster. They're hoping Scott will buy them a few years of mediocrity while they can try and lure/trade for a superstar. That's my belief at least.
That does not really answer your question though, as far as "wanting my cake and eating it too". I understand dynasties end and every team rebuilds. I'm not of the hard-lined stance that the Lakers don't rebuild, they "reload". Ideally, that'd be great, but I understand that's not always possible. If I'm to accept that this is the Lakers roster then I expect that this team will struggle to make the playoffs. However, I can accept that and still be optimistic or disappointed with how they perform. If they miss the playoffs, but are still playing good defense, Randle develops, Davis shows his potential then I'd say Scott did a good job. If this season is about letting Kobe prove to the league that he's still great and he puts up 25 shots a game at the expense of other players development then I'll deem it a failure on Scott's part.
So in a sense I agree that Scott's job is to maybe bridge the gap till this team has the talent to compete. Along the way he can teach these young guys how to play and develop them. However I think that was Scott's job responsibilities in Cleveland. How did that work? They did not play defense, they did not compete and as far as I can tell, nobody else really developed on that team. My line of thinking, which may be flawed, is; let's see what someone else has to offer. Let’s give someone a shot that is smart, young, and can look at the game differently then these other coaches who keep getting jobs and subsequently fired 2-3 years later. |
I understand that perspective.
It may boil down to the fact that the Lakers were stuck between a rock and a hard place. And the rock is Kobe. How do you tell Kobe that the last two years of his glorious career are going to be focused on roster positioning and young player development? The answer is, you don't. So they picked a coach who could communicate with Kobe and also potentially teach the young players how to play "the Laker Way."
I'm not sure Kobe or the other Laker illuminati would have been pleased with a David Blatt-style hiring. A coach like that would be starting off with at least one strike against him. And then run out of town because he couldn't help Kobe win during at the end of his career, even though Kobe probably wouldn't have listened to the coach as much as he'll listen to Byron. |
I don't want to open a whole other can of worms with my comments. I'll just say that at this point in his career and with his contract, Kobe should accept that this team is going to be middle of the road at best until after he retires. Coaches shouldn't be hired based on Kobe's admiration for them. D'Antoni was supposedly very well respected by Kobe before being hired. Look how that turned out. |
Guys like Kobe can never "accept" being middle of the road. Neither can guys like Scott.
That may be the end result but it won't be because they accept it. They will come at it like they are going to win. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
Im not in this board to please no one, nor do i have to justify myself. I eventually will if im in the mood, although i usually do lack the patience. |
Not to get too technical, but that means you are here to please someone.  |
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Dreamy
Sixth Man
Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Ryan Kelly is a better player than Davis and at this point Randle. He deserves playing time |
Uh what? |
What don't you understand? |
Kelly is getting overrated here. He had a few good games where he shot well, but he's very green in the NBA and inconsistent, looked lost a few times.
I don't know where you are getting based on last year that he's better than a 4 year NBA veteran Davis, and Randle is much more talented and can easily be better than him once the season starts. |
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GreekTrojan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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LADYNASTY put it in a much more civil/balanced way than I did (mostly because I am about as anti-Scott as one can be). It really does sadden me because this hire reeks of James Dolan/Dan Synder/Jerry Jones levels of short-sightedness and pandering to a fanbase. Nash/Dwight was supposed to be the last hurrah and once that fell through, it was time blow it up and rebuild. You give Kobe the mega deal to keep him but rebuild and get a young developmental coach to build the next team.
I don't care about Kobe's feelings. I want to scream everytime someone tries to guilt trip me with "we owe Kobe" as if the team didn't stick with him through, Colorado, picking him over Shaq, getting him Pau, Dwight, Nash, CP3 etc... and always paying him 100% of what the CBA allowed them to pay him. I hope he proves me wrong but we are just wasting another 1-2 seasons with a coach who has a questionable ability to develop young talent. |
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LADYNASTY
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Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| GreekTrojan wrote: | LADYNASTY put it in a much more civil/balanced way than I did (mostly because I am about as anti-Scott as one can be). It really does sadden me because this hire reeks of James Dolan/Dan Synder/Jerry Jones levels of short-sightedness and pandering to a fanbase. Nash/Dwight was supposed to be the last hurrah and once that fell through, it was time blow it up and rebuild. You give Kobe the mega deal to keep him but rebuild and get a young developmental coach to build the next team.
I don't care about Kobe's feelings. I want to scream everytime someone tries to guilt trip me with "we owe Kobe" as if the team didn't stick with him through, Colorado, picking him over Shaq, getting him Pau, Dwight, Nash, CP3 etc... and always paying him 100% of what the CBA allowed them to pay him. I hope he proves me wrong but we are just wasting another 1-2 seasons with a coach who has a questionable ability to develop young talent. |
I don't know if I'll go to such extremes in regards to Kobe. His input should certainly be sought after. However, at this stage of his career, it should not be a deciding factor in choosing a coach.
Kobe, like the rest of us I'm sure, respects smart people. People who know what they are doing. It shouldn't be about finding a coach that Kobe likes. It should be about finding the best coach out there. If that happens, everything else will/should fall in line. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamy wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | kaoss128 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Ryan Kelly is a better player than Davis and at this point Randle. He deserves playing time |
Uh what? |
What don't you understand? |
Kelly is getting overrated here. He had a few good games where he shot well, but he's very green in the NBA and inconsistent, looked lost a few times.
I don't know where you are getting based on last year that he's better than a 4 year NBA veteran Davis, and Randle is much more talented and can easily be better than him once the season starts. |
I think Kelly is underrated. At 1.5m he's a good bargain. Remember, he missed summer league/training camp last year b/c of injuries, so he was a bit late to the game.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ElginBaylor
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 10775
Location: Hoosier Nation
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
Im not in this board to please no one, nor do i have to justify myself. I eventually will if im in the mood, although i usually do lack the patience. |
Not to get too technical, but that means you are here to please someone. |
I know this is a sports forum and not an exercise in proper grammar, but geesh god the disrespect for the English language around here drives me frickin' nuts.
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gooner
Starting Rotation
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Posts: 448
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
Im not in this board to please no one, nor do i have to justify myself. I eventually will if im in the mood, although i usually do lack the patience. |
Not to get too technical, but that means you are here to please someone. |
I know this is a sports forum and not an exercise in proper grammar, but geesh god the disrespect for the English language around here drives me frickin' nuts. |
Is frickin' a officially recognized word in the English language? |
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K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: |
Im not in this board to please no one, |
 Who are you on this board to please then? |
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Gwyn
Star Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 3499
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| gooner wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
Im not in this board to please no one, nor do i have to justify myself. I eventually will if im in the mood, although i usually do lack the patience. |
Not to get too technical, but that means you are here to please someone. |
I know this is a sports forum and not an exercise in proper grammar, but geesh god the disrespect for the English language around here drives me frickin' nuts. |
Is frickin' a officially recognized word in the English language? |
Frickin a, man! 
_________________
Lakers win record when Kobe goes for 40+ points
God bless Kobe Bean Bryant and Gianna Maria Onore Bryant. |
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Lakers#1Team
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 36363
Location: Nomad
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| gooner wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | Clutch24 wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | | When the Cavs signed a MUCH better coach than yours, you know things are not going as they should. That said, i just want the Lakers to win and if Byron's the coach, then his success will be Lakers success. I will never cheer or desire a Lakers loss even if i dislike all the roster and coach(es). Most of the people here at least watched 05-07 Lakers bball and last season, so, i dont think 2014-15 will be that difficult to stomach. |
Show me the facts that he's a better NBA coach. This will be fun. |
The fact that i have two eyes and a brain. |
I didn't expect the white flag this early, oh well. I was wrong, no fun involved. |
Im not in this board to please no one, nor do i have to justify myself. I eventually will if im in the mood, although i usually do lack the patience. |
Not to get too technical, but that means you are here to please someone. |
I know this is a sports forum and not an exercise in proper grammar, but geesh god the disrespect for the English language around here drives me frickin' nuts. |
Is frickin' a officially recognized word in the English language? |
 No, it's "Is frickin' AN officially..." |
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