Until shown otherwise, we should roll with an 11 man rotation
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Until shown otherwise, we should roll with an 11 man rotation

Byron needs to put out an 11 man rotation. There's several reasons why:

1. Health - By playing multiple players, the overall team health is better. When a player plays less minutes, he is less likely to get injured. Last year, and the year before, injuries were our #1 issue. This coming season health is going to be one of our biggest concerns.

2. Lack of Real Starters - As of this point our only legitimate starter is Kobe Bryant. Arguments could be made for Boozer, Nash and Young, but there's reasons why it is a concern. Boozer is getting older and you want your team to limit the time of his non-defense. Nash may not even play 40 games and upsets his back every game, I'm not sure if he should even play at all (see later points). Young is much, much better as a sixth man (as evident by his performance last season), where he plays against bench players that are not on his level.
Since we have no real starters, that means we should spread minutes around to get the most out of what we have.

3. Chemistry - If a lot of players play, then we'll quickly find sets that work well between certain players and it will be easier to implement them into a consistent offense.

4. Player development - We have a lot of younger players who are not yet in their prime. Randle, Kelly, Henry, Lin, Davis, Johnson, Clarkson, Sacre (and maybe Hill) all have not yet reached their full potential and will need playtime in order to do so. You could send them to the Development League, but the best way to learn how to play in the league is to play in the league.

5. Doing what is Successful - The current reigning NBA champions, the Spurs, have a large rotation as well. If this is what makes them - or helps them be - successful, then we should try the same.



A possible way of spreading the minutes:

Frontcourt (96 minutes):
Hill- 20m*
Boozer- 24m**
Randle- 20m
Kelly- 14m
Davis- 18m
Sacre- Insurance


Backcourt (144 minutes):
Bryant- 32m
Young- 30m***
Henry- 18m
Johnson- 20m
Lin- 32m
Nash- 12m****
Clarkson- Development League****

* Some people may see Jordan Hill as a starter that should be playing 36 minutes a game. This is not a good idea. We have seen over the last three years that Hill's biggest issue is his play-style: extreme energy. He spends more energy on plays than other players do, and this is why it often looks like he gets winded easily. And because of this fatigue, he has gotten injured a lot. His performance also takes a significant hit. We've seen that he is at his peak when he plays around 24 minutes.

** Our power forward rotation is pretty deep. Ryan Kelly definitely proved he is a quality player and he should get minutes. Julius Randle will need minutes to in order to develop into the monster we all want him to become. Carlos Boozer, however, is at this point the most experienced and, at least for the early parts of the season, should start and get the most minutes. Despite his defensive issues we can see some great offensive production when combining him with Lin or Bryant. Ed Davis is a center.

*** Young can have more minutes than starters and still come off the bench. To be honest, in most cases whether you start or not does not really matter. But Young is definitely effective when he gets to play against bench players for most of the game. We could still see him finish games with Kobe.

**** I have very little faith in Nash at this point. I often forget he is even on the team. But if he can play, then he is still better than a rookie Clarkson and so should get some minutes. I think it's a bad idea to play him with Kobe (defensive issues, having to play against starter talent, potential ball dominance issues, etc), so he should come off the bench. But feel free to replace him with Clarkson.




Until we see that certain players just aren't producing, or, until players get injured, we should definitely roll with this large rotation. It is much better to start with this than wait until half our roster is hurt, at which point we find a "gem" in one of the players that then finally gets to play, and we will be thinking "we sure could have used this player earlier in the season".

Go Lakers.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject:

I agree, there is no reason to burden our players with heavy minutes, people who play well will eventually get more minutes, but the Spurs showed that a high player rotation can work.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject:

What's byrons rep for player rotations?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject:

I would like a deep rotation too,

we have the depth to do so believe it or not.

Also helps to keep many of our players fresh and happy.

Does Spurs go 11 deep though??
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Kobe playing 32 mpg, for an entire season ? That's certain death to his career, and there's nothing gained by it. Spare the guy the risk of certain re-injury and play him either 20 mpg or rest him every other game. He's more valuable an asset for 2016's chances than 2015.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject:

After Bryant, the talent levels off I most of these guys are generally at the same level, that deeper rotation should work. It might become more difficult to find the combinations but as the OP pointed out, it's impossible to do so when certain players are always parked on the pine.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject:

I like the idea of starting the season with a longer rotation. I am really curious to see how Johnson, Davis, Henry, Kelly, perform when they are on the floor with for example Kobe, Lin and Randle.

It will be fun to see how the young guys develop this year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Lin cant handle heavy mins, he is gonna get hurt. You need Clarkson to play some of that 32 mins assigned to Line. Nash can handle 12 mins, with that 100 year old body?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject:

I works, it makes sense, and it would be for the best... And it won't happen. Doubt BS is a coach that can stand up to Kobe and play him limited minutes.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject:

i totally agree with OP.

one thing i hadn't really thought of though is, what the hell would the Lakers do if Lin got injured? we would be so screwed at the PG position. that troubles me a bit at this point.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Agree with Chronicle

Quote:
Byron needs to put out an 11 man rotation. There's several reasons why:

1. Health - By playing multiple players, the overall team health is better. When a player plays less minutes, he is less likely to get injured. Last year, and the year before, injuries were our #1 issue. This coming season health is going to be one of our biggest concerns.

2. Lack of Real Starters - As of this point our only legitimate starter is Kobe Bryant. Arguments could be made for Boozer, Nash and Young, but there's reasons why it is a concern. Boozer is getting older and you want your team to limit the time of his non-defense. Nash may not even play 40 games and upsets his back every game, I'm not sure if he should even play at all (see later points). Young is much, much better as a sixth man (as evident by his performance last season), where he plays against bench players that are not on his level.
Since we have no real starters, that means we should spread minutes around to get the most out of what we have.

3. Chemistry - If a lot of players play, then we'll quickly find sets that work well between certain players and it will be easier to implement them into a consistent offense.

4. Player development - We have a lot of younger players who are not yet in their prime. Randle, Kelly, Henry, Lin, Davis, Johnson, Clarkson, Sacre (and maybe Hill) all have not yet reached their full potential and will need playtime in order to do so. You could send them to the Development League, but the best way to learn how to play in the league is to play in the league.

5. Doing what is Successful - The current reigning NBA champions, the Spurs, have a large rotation as well. If this is what makes them - or helps them be - successful, then we should try the same.



A possible way of spreading the minutes:

Frontcourt (96 minutes):
Hill- 20m*
Boozer- 24m**
Randle- 20m
Kelly- 14m
Davis- 18m
Sacre- Insurance


Backcourt (144 minutes):
Bryant- 32m
Young- 30m***
Henry- 18m
Johnson- 20m
Lin- 32m
Nash- 12m****
Clarkson- Development League****

* Some people may see Jordan Hill as a starter that should be playing 36 minutes a game. This is not a good idea. We have seen over the last three years that Hill's biggest issue is his play-style: extreme energy. He spends more energy on plays than other players do, and this is why it often looks like he gets winded easily. And because of this fatigue, he has gotten injured a lot. His performance also takes a significant hit. We've seen that he is at his peak when he plays around 24 minutes.

** Our power forward rotation is pretty deep. Ryan Kelly definitely proved he is a quality player and he should get minutes. Julius Randle will need minutes to in order to develop into the monster we all want him to become. Carlos Boozer, however, is at this point the most experienced and, at least for the early parts of the season, should start and get the most minutes. Despite his defensive issues we can see some great offensive production when combining him with Lin or Bryant. Ed Davis is a center.

*** Young can have more minutes than starters and still come off the bench. To be honest, in most cases whether you start or not does not really matter. But Young is definitely effective when he gets to play against bench players for most of the game. We could still see him finish games with Kobe.

**** I have very little faith in Nash at this point. I often forget he is even on the team. But if he can play, then he is still better than a rookie Clarkson and so should get some minutes. I think it's a bad idea to play him with Kobe (defensive issues, having to play against starter talent, potential ball dominance issues, etc), so he should come off the bench. But feel free to replace him with Clarkson.




Until we see that certain players just aren't producing, or, until players get injured, we should definitely roll with this large rotation. It is much better to start with this than wait until half our roster is hurt, at which point we find a "gem" in one of the players that then finally gets to play, and we will be thinking "we sure could have used this player earlier in the season".


What the Lakers really need now is a super scout.
Somebody who can tell you how good a player is or can be. And what is their present condition and dispositon.
If they had such a person as does the Spurs and Thunder, and etc they
would not have given so much up for Nash.
And mixed Howard with DAntoni. a bad mix.

It is obvious, as much as I hate to write this, but the FO does not know basketball like the previous FO.

They are like kids playing with toys. But not realizing the consequences of their decisions.

I think some regulars on this message board can run the Lakers better than the present FO.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
Kobe playing 32 mpg, for an entire season ? That's certain death to his career, and there's nothing gained by it. Spare the guy the risk of certain re-injury and play him either 20 mpg or rest him every other game. He's more valuable an asset for 2016's chances than 2015.


Kobe isn't playing 20 mpg man. He's playing at least 30 mpg. It's Kobe Bryant.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject:

The minutes breakdown makes some sense, although they may actually play a 10 man rotation on most nights where a forward or Sacre get a night off or very limited minutes.

I think Davis and Johnson get more burn than a lot think. You could fit them in with the other players as 18-20 minute guys, but they're two of the better defensive role players that know their roles. I understand that Kelly is valued, Henry shows potential and Sacre gives a height option, but watch those two get the minutes when someone is carving them up inside or outside.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject:

LakersMDGurl wrote:
Lin cant handle heavy mins, he is gonna get hurt. You need Clarkson to play some of that 32 mins assigned to Line. Nash can handle 12 mins, with that 100 year old body?


With that PG "depth", they really have to play him at least 28-30 mins/gm. Nash and Clarkson are really wildcards IMO. I'm sure they want Nash to be the backup PG and Clarkson to elevate above a 5th guard but they really need insurance behind them.

You also have to wonder if maybe you see Kobe and Young as a backcourt for 12 minutes a game if Nash can't play or Clarkson isn't ready. Not dissing either, just play along. If Beaubois or Kane don't get in, or they don't sign a vet...is Nick Young defending a PG any worse than Nash doing it? It would at least get the best players on the court, and Kobe would do most of the ball handling. Make no mistake, I'm not asking Young to play PG or Kobe to defend them.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject:

crackadon wrote:
i totally agree with OP.

one thing i hadn't really thought of though is, what the hell would the Lakers do if Lin got injured? we would be so screwed at the PG position. that troubles me a bit at this point.


We're pretty screwed in every single position, not just PG
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Azarian wrote:
crackadon wrote:
i totally agree with OP.

one thing i hadn't really thought of though is, what the hell would the Lakers do if Lin got injured? we would be so screwed at the PG position. that troubles me a bit at this point.


We're pretty screwed in every single position, not just PG


They may have the best SG position in the league with Kobe and Young. PF numbers should be better than league average and they have depth. Can't agree with this.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject:

Lol at kobe playing 20 mpg thats ridiculous
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject:

I think Clarkson is good enough to get some minutes at the expense of Lin, Johnson and maybe two from Kobe in your rotation.

Clarkson +16 = 16
Kobe -2 = 30
Lin - 4 = 28
Johnson - 10 = 10


At the very least you would have the full 48 min at the PG position manned by real PGs, and Clarkson would get 8 at PG and 8 at SG.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:59 am    Post subject:

crackadon wrote:
i totally agree with OP.

one thing i hadn't really thought of though is, what the hell would the Lakers do if Lin got injured? we would be so screwed at the PG position. that troubles me a bit at this point.


It's why I'm still hoping for Beaubois. I'm pretty sure he'll be invited to training camp but I hope he makes the roster as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
LakersMDGurl wrote:
Lin cant handle heavy mins, he is gonna get hurt. You need Clarkson to play some of that 32 mins assigned to Line. Nash can handle 12 mins, with that 100 year old body?


With that PG "depth", they really have to play him at least 28-30 mins/gm. Nash and Clarkson are really wildcards IMO. I'm sure they want Nash to be the backup PG and Clarkson to elevate above a 5th guard but they really need insurance behind them.

You also have to wonder if maybe you see Kobe and Young as a backcourt for 12 minutes a game if Nash can't play or Clarkson isn't ready. Not dissing either, just play along. If Beaubois or Kane don't get in, or they don't sign a vet...is Nick Young defending a PG any worse than Nash doing it? It would at least get the best players on the court, and Kobe would do most of the ball handling. Make no mistake, I'm not asking Young to play PG or Kobe to defend them.


I dont mind Kane, i watched a bit of him during Summer league game, he seems to be a good player. I don't want Kobe no where playing PG, thats a no no no. He got hurt doing that last time. Nash I really am not counting on, we need another guard.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:10 am    Post subject:

I think Clarkson will be a surprise and get 17+ minutes this year between PG and SG.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject:

LakersMDGurl wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
LakersMDGurl wrote:
Lin cant handle heavy mins, he is gonna get hurt. You need Clarkson to play some of that 32 mins assigned to Line. Nash can handle 12 mins, with that 100 year old body?


With that PG "depth", they really have to play him at least 28-30 mins/gm. Nash and Clarkson are really wildcards IMO. I'm sure they want Nash to be the backup PG and Clarkson to elevate above a 5th guard but they really need insurance behind them.

You also have to wonder if maybe you see Kobe and Young as a backcourt for 12 minutes a game if Nash can't play or Clarkson isn't ready. Not dissing either, just play along. If Beaubois or Kane don't get in, or they don't sign a vet...is Nick Young defending a PG any worse than Nash doing it? It would at least get the best players on the court, and Kobe would do most of the ball handling. Make no mistake, I'm not asking Young to play PG or Kobe to defend them.


I dont mind Kane, i watched a bit of him during Summer league game, he seems to be a good player. I don't want Kobe no where playing PG, thats a no no no. He got hurt doing that last time. Nash I really am not counting on, we need another guard.


Sessions?

Beaubois?

Xavier Thames?

Russ Smith?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject:

Dave20 wrote:
I think Clarkson will be a surprise and get 17+ minutes this year between PG and SG.


It would be nice to see that happen, but I have a feeling that he won't even get any minutes until Nash or Lin get injured. He'll probably be in the D-League until then.

Won't mind being wrong about this though!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject:

Agreed; I believe Clarkson has a future in the NBA. He will do some time in the D-league and get some PT on the big team this season also.
Or he could turn to "Marcus Smart with a jumper" ......
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject:

How is Kobe supposed to get 25/5/5 without significant minutes???
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