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EldenCampbell
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Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| It's not his fault that he broke his leg. At the same time, he literally cannot stay on the court. He passed Mark Jackson on the all-time assists list. There's nothing else for him to do. |
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JosephFerano
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: Re: I predict Nash will not play more than 10 games for Byron. |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | JosephFerano wrote: | | LakersMDGurl wrote: | | Ok, this "locked down" PG comment is been thrown all over the place, and frankly its getting annoying. Who the hell locks down PGs on the Clippers? OKC?Miami? Spurs? GSW? Bulls? Mostly the bigs are the ones hadnling the PGs these days, swatting and alerting shot opportunities. At least that's what I see Ibaka, Noah, Jordan, Duncan do... none of the top-tier PGs even play D. Does Cp3 play D? Steals are not and should not be considered playing defense. Look at James Harden, everyone knows he plays no lick of D, yet he gets all these steals - should he be considered a "lock down defender" or "defensive minded" SG? |
This. The reason why people say such things is because they think that a "good" defender is all about one on one defense. If everyone can stop the man in front of them, then you have an amazing defense. This is not the case at all. Although obviously Nash is still an inferior defender, most point guards make extensive use of Pick and Rolls, so in reality, it's a team effort.
Believe it or not, it takes 3 men to guard the P&R well. A mobile big, an agile yet tough point guard, and a smart wing defender. The big needs to be mobile enough to hedge/show and recover, or stay close enough to a PG if they switch off. The best asset to a point guard is strength, tenacity, and agility in order to get around a constant barrage of screens. So regardless of what anyone though, Fisher was a great defender because of this.
Finally, the third man involded is the wing defender. This man is in charge of denying the roll pass. This position requires great defensive alertness and also quick feet and long limbs. They need to cover the roll man and then sprint back to the 3 point line to cover that threat. Easier said than done when teams put Channing Fry at a position that forces his man to be the one to cover the roll. |
Agreed that it takes a concerted effort, but there is no distinction between a Kyle Lowry/Marcus Smart on-ball defender and Nash? Is it ludicrous to coin the former lock down defenders? I can understand that there is no sure fire way to completely stop an offensive player, but I don't get the outrage at the use of the term.
How about "knockdown shooter?" What's "knockdown?"
Or he has "handles?" Define that.
These are terms of art thrown out there to describe categories of players. We don't have a lock down defender on this team as of now. |
Right, we are merely commenting on what people perceive as "lock down". I myself am criticizing certain ideas of what that looks like. Also, think about the Spurs of this year; how many lock down defenders did they have? Leonard? That's about it. Yet they still had elite level defense and it was because of the team concept.
Obviously Nash is an inferior defender and will weaken any defensive team. But I'm just trying to point out that that's not as huge a concern, especially if he can deliver on the offensive end.
D'Antoni's Suns were always middle of the pack defensively, despite Nash, Amare (who is also a terrible defender), and a general lack of emphasis in the area. Accoring to LG, they should've been dead last, yet they had enough of a team defense concept to at least be average. |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:19 am Post subject: |
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If Nash is healthy enough, I'd start Nash over Lin. And I'm a pretty big Lin fan.
But Nash is... well,... Steve freaking Nash.
When he was healthy last season, he looked just as good as the young Steve Nash.
And people like repeating some meme about his defense that really isn't true. He's a decent defender.
He's not all that great a man-to-man defender. But then again, it's rare to find a PG that is.
But Nash is a very good team defender. Go back and watch. He's always in the right spot defensively. |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Hopefully Nash can stay somewhat healthy this year and finish his career on his own terms.
I think he would be great off the bench organizing the 2nd unit and getting guys like Young and Randle easy looks.
Best case scenario next season is he plays about 60 games(no back to backs) and 15-20 minutes per game. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| GasolBynumKobe wrote: | | I'd love to get paid for 3 years of work doing nothing. What a life. |
It's easy. Just buy some good disability insurance. Then manage to have your leg or jaw shattered in an accident at work. You can laugh all the way to the bank/hospital |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17064
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| JosephFerano wrote: | | Jackobe wrote: | | Dave Miller believes Byron will start Nash over Lin. lol |
I'm not entirely opposed to this. People place too much of an emphasis on starting but what's most important is minutes and who's in there in the 4th. If Nash starts, it's only because he's still warm from the previous warm ups and he'll be more effective. Lin would still probably play 30-35 minutes a game, while Nash would still more than likely hover around 15-20.
Think about Odom for instance. It wasn't a frontcourt of Bynum/Gasol that won it for us back to back, it was a frontcourt of Gasol/Odom. Odom was the one getting the minutes and the one finishing the 4th quarter. |
I'd say this is true normally. But Nash is such a liability defensively and we don't have the personnel to cover for him. Having him matchup against back up pgs would be better.
Last edited by 22 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:21 am Post subject: Re: I predict Nash will not play more than 10 games for Byron. |
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| JosephFerano wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | JosephFerano wrote: | | LakersMDGurl wrote: | | Ok, this "locked down" PG comment is been thrown all over the place, and frankly its getting annoying. Who the hell locks down PGs on the Clippers? OKC?Miami? Spurs? GSW? Bulls? Mostly the bigs are the ones hadnling the PGs these days, swatting and alerting shot opportunities. At least that's what I see Ibaka, Noah, Jordan, Duncan do... none of the top-tier PGs even play D. Does Cp3 play D? Steals are not and should not be considered playing defense. Look at James Harden, everyone knows he plays no lick of D, yet he gets all these steals - should he be considered a "lock down defender" or "defensive minded" SG? |
This. The reason why people say such things is because they think that a "good" defender is all about one on one defense. If everyone can stop the man in front of them, then you have an amazing defense. This is not the case at all. Although obviously Nash is still an inferior defender, most point guards make extensive use of Pick and Rolls, so in reality, it's a team effort.
Believe it or not, it takes 3 men to guard the P&R well. A mobile big, an agile yet tough point guard, and a smart wing defender. The big needs to be mobile enough to hedge/show and recover, or stay close enough to a PG if they switch off. The best asset to a point guard is strength, tenacity, and agility in order to get around a constant barrage of screens. So regardless of what anyone though, Fisher was a great defender because of this.
Finally, the third man involded is the wing defender. This man is in charge of denying the roll pass. This position requires great defensive alertness and also quick feet and long limbs. They need to cover the roll man and then sprint back to the 3 point line to cover that threat. Easier said than done when teams put Channing Fry at a position that forces his man to be the one to cover the roll. |
Agreed that it takes a concerted effort, but there is no distinction between a Kyle Lowry/Marcus Smart on-ball defender and Nash? Is it ludicrous to coin the former lock down defenders? I can understand that there is no sure fire way to completely stop an offensive player, but I don't get the outrage at the use of the term.
How about "knockdown shooter?" What's "knockdown?"
Or he has "handles?" Define that.
These are terms of art thrown out there to describe categories of players. We don't have a lock down defender on this team as of now. |
Right, we are merely commenting on what people perceive as "lock down". I myself am criticizing certain ideas of what that looks like. Also, think about the Spurs of this year; how many lock down defenders did they have? Leonard? That's about it. Yet they still had elite level defense and it was because of the team concept.
Obviously Nash is an inferior defender and will weaken any defensive team. But I'm just trying to point out that that's not as huge a concern, especially if he can deliver on the offensive end.
D'Antoni's Suns were always middle of the pack defensively, despite Nash, Amare (who is also a terrible defender), and a general lack of emphasis in the area. Accoring to LG, they should've been dead last, yet they had enough of a team defense concept to at least be average. |
I agree. Leonard is one of the best defenders in the NBA and Lebron still averaged nearly 30 ppg in the Finals against him.
I guess re: PGs, they are the tip of the defensive spear for me. Some are sharper than others. Ours have been quite dull for a while.
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| GasolBynumKobe wrote: | | I'd love to get paid for 3 years of work doing nothing. What a life. |
The guy trains relentlessly. He's not exactly "doing nothing".
Unless you're talking about when he can't train due to injury being too severe to train. Then yeah... he's doing nothing.
I don't think that any of us desire to get paid for "doing nothing" though if that "doing nothing" means that we're in pain due to nerve issues in our back. |
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LakersMDGurl
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 18015
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | If Nash is healthy enough, I'd start Nash over Lin. And I'm a pretty big Lin fan.
But Nash is... well,... Steve freaking Nash.
When he was healthy last season, he looked just as good as the young Steve Nash.
And people like repeating some meme about his defense that really isn't true. He's a decent defender.
He's not all that great a man-to-man defender. But then again, it's rare to find a PG that is.
But Nash is a very good team defender. Go back and watch. He's always in the right spot defensively. |
Well , lets see if he can even practice before we think of starting him. I would love to have "Steve Nash" on this team, but the reality is that we do not have that guy anymore. We have a shell of the real Nash!!!
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| fadeaway3 wrote: | | GasolBynumKobe wrote: | | I'd love to get paid for 3 years of work doing nothing. What a life. |
If you like that, go check out Gilbert Arenas contract. I think he was the 3rd highest paid player in the league and he hasn't played since 2012. |
Now that's the way to do it! |
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JosephFerano
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: Re: I predict Nash will not play more than 10 games for Byron. |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I agree. Leonard is one of the best defenders in the NBA and Lebron still averaged nearly 30 ppg in the Finals against him.
I guess re: PGs, they are the tip of the defensive spear for me. Some are sharper than others. Ours have been quite dull for a while. |
That's a very eloquent way of putting it. I agree 100%. |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | If Nash is healthy enough, I'd start Nash over Lin. And I'm a pretty big Lin fan.
But Nash is... well,... Steve freaking Nash.
When he was healthy last season, he looked just as good as the young Steve Nash.
And people like repeating some meme about his defense that really isn't true. He's a decent defender.
He's not all that great a man-to-man defender. But then again, it's rare to find a PG that is.
But Nash is a very good team defender. Go back and watch. He's always in the right spot defensively. |
Well , lets see if he can even practice before we think of starting him. I would love to have "Steve Nash" on this team, but the reality is that we do not have that guy anymore. We have a shell of the real Nash!!! |
Of course. That's a given. |
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meows a lot
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | If Nash starts we will be losing many games. It's hard to come back from the deficit he'll get us in. He'a backup pg for spot minutes at best at this point |
I don't mind Nash starting for the first 8-10 minutes or so, it would be good for Lin to learn from him. I expect lin to get at least 30+ minutes
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“We do have a lot in common.
The same air, the same Earth, the same sky.
Maybe if we started looking at
what's the same instead of
always looking at what's different,
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Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:26 am Post subject: |
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I respect Nash, you can't question his work ethic, but it is time for him to come off the bench and let Lin be the starter, besides his durability is s factor as well. Hopefully Scott will express to Nash the need for him to be a mentor and also to come off the bench. If a miracle happens and Nash becomes the old Nash then all will be fine.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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nateball
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:37 am Post subject: |
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If Nash is healthy you start him so he can go from warm-ups to playing and not have to sit the first period and get cold.
Starting does not mean he will play more overall mins then Lin...just that he is the first on in the game which again makes sense from a warm-up stand point IMO. |
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RMurphy_22
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Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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If a healthy Lin in his prime can't prove to be the starter over a 40 year old vet, we got some issues.
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| RMurphy_22 wrote: | | If a healthy Lin in his prime can't prove to be the starter over a 40 year old vet, we got some issues. |
When that 40 yr old vet is healthy enough to play, he's better than just about every PG in the league not named Chris Paul. |
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RMurphy_22
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Posts: 4193
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | RMurphy_22 wrote: | | If a healthy Lin in his prime can't prove to be the starter over a 40 year old vet, we got some issues. |
When that 40 yr old vet is healthy enough to play, he's better than just about every PG in the league not named Chris Paul. |
LOL, what?
CP3
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Ty Lawson
Damion Lillard
Dragic
Lowry
Nash is better all those guys except CP3...come on man
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| RMurphy_22 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | RMurphy_22 wrote: | | If a healthy Lin in his prime can't prove to be the starter over a 40 year old vet, we got some issues. |
When that 40 yr old vet is healthy enough to play, he's better than just about every PG in the league not named Chris Paul. |
LOL, what?
CP3
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Ty Lawson
Damion Lillard
Dragic
Lowry
Nash is better all those guys except CP3...come on man |
As a PG? Pretty much.
Some of those guys are better scorers. But they aren't the complete package that Nash is. |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| The only way he plays less than 10 games for BScott, is if he's traded before his 10th game. And I hope people would stop hating on him as he finishes out his fantastic career. |
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JosephFerano
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | RMurphy_22 wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | RMurphy_22 wrote: | | If a healthy Lin in his prime can't prove to be the starter over a 40 year old vet, we got some issues. |
When that 40 yr old vet is healthy enough to play, he's better than just about every PG in the league not named Chris Paul. |
LOL, what?
CP3
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Ty Lawson
Damion Lillard
Dragic
Lowry
Nash is better all those guys except CP3...come on man |
As a PG? Pretty much.
Some of those guys are better scorers. But they aren't the complete package that Nash is. |
I would agree with you, especially Westbrook and Curry. To a lesser extend, Lawson, Llilard and Lowry. Dragic, no way. Dragic is an amazing point guard. Westbrook and Curry are bad point guards, but amazing guards. Especially Westbrook, dude is a bonehead. |
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22
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Posts: 17064
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| C'mon Sarver! Do the right thing and trade us Bledsoe for Nash so he can have a proper retirement tour |
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markjay
Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3924
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Darn it. I was hoping he'd resign for another 5 years! |
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The_Lakers_Show
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Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 2085
Location: Orange County, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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This barely required a post on LG let alone him having to verbalize it...
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Jim Buss: does that mean we can't sign him to a 2 year max extension?
Jeani: what about a farewell tour?
Mitch: no and no, but all is not lost. We got a pick back from Houston we can easily get some other geriatric star from 10 years ago.
All: 1-2-3 rings! |
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