So Vegas . . . who's your choice? Or did I miss it in an earlier post?
You missed two earlier posts. I don't think Glen Rice is a true "disappointment" since he did play a big role on a title team, but he certainly fits the criteria more than Ced does.
Edit: you could've also chosen Vlad Rad and/or George McCloud, neither of whom was a former all-star like Rice but nonetheless flopped here big time.
Heck - you could've left SF blank and still made a better choice than Ced.
So Vegas . . . who's your choice? Or did I miss it in an earlier post?
You missed two earlier posts. I don't think Glen Rice is a true "disappointment" since he did play a big role on a title team, but he certainly fits the criteria more than Ced does.
Edit: you could've also chosen Vlad Rad and/or George McCloud, neither of whom was a former all-star like Rice but nonetheless flopped here big time.
Heck - you could've left SF blank and still made a better choice than Ced.
Yeah, Rice was a potent shooter who averaged 26.8 ppg a year or two before he was traded here. First and foremost, he was never the same shooter after that elbow injury/surgery. That admission has to precede everything else that took place between Glen, Phil, and Christina. Phil didn't like Glen's defense. I know, who did, right? Well, Phil had certain things that made him irate enough to actually get up and WALK over to a player to yell at him. One of those things was giving up the baseline and he would yell at Kobe for that like he were a bench scrub. Glen did more of Phil's cardinal sins than any of the regulars and he was only there because someone had to stretch the defense for Shaq. Bear in mind, the 2000 Lakers had the top overall defense in the league if not the Spurs.
We recognized Phil's stress on defense again when he used a cornrowed Ty Lue in the Finals(!1) against Iverson(!~`). Meanwhile, JR had moved from 1:1 practices with Kobe to 1:1 practices with Celestand. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Neg, but I might. Ced punched their Wolf mascot twice in that game after dunks. Not sure why, but he was frisky that night.
That's is hilarious. If you do put it up please let me know! I assume Chick called the game?
Quote:
Anyway, if I were to take a crack at that first question, I would say that the single worst thing about JR as a player was his tude. He had some run-ins with the law and at least one arrest that I recall, but that doesn't really account for what happened to him in Portland and Minny. I doubt he left any team he was with on good terms. He was unhappy in his brief stint in Atlanta. I think he partied hard there - choice strip clubs in the Hotlanta area, but JR played it off like he only wanted to win and he was upset with his teammates laughing during losses.
Minny was trying to get rid of Rider and Laettner once they got young Garnett. They were both malcontents. With Portland, he was what he was -- a pretty specific type of offensive player. He could play out on the perimeter, but his strength was on the block w/ his back to the basket. I don't see how the Lakers thought he was going to help them, but I think they probably were desperate to pick someone up to appease Shaq after Kendall Gill scampered off to Jersey. Phil did play him here in the early season, but Phil did that with new players most years without it ever being stated. He played Penberthy a lot at the start of 2000/01 as well. He gradually solidified his rotation as the season went on. People assumed Rider's minutes diminished here because of his tude and checkered past, but Phil was just as likely to boot him from the roster if he didn't like how he played the triangle even if he was an angel. I've learned better than to venture a guess as to anything Phil does without quotes from the horse's mouth to back myself up. Who knows what goes thru Phil's mind.
I know his 'tude was lame-o but it seems like his overall skills eroded at a shocking rate. Maybe he was just useless when he didn't get the rock enough.
The two alpha dogs were fighting for supremacy of the yard at that point. If you were a new guy, you had to find a place to fit. JR wasn't going to find a place to fit on THAT squad. I remember in an interview he joking said when asked about the triangle "I asked Kobe for advice and he ignored me" (it was something to that effect). He said it jokingly but I sensed there was a ring of truth to it. Kobe at that point was too busy making his mark to notice and to young and brash to care.
So Vegas . . . who's your choice? Or did I miss it in an earlier post?
You missed two earlier posts. I don't think Glen Rice is a true "disappointment" since he did play a big role on a title team, but he certainly fits the criteria more than Ced does.
Edit: you could've also chosen Vlad Rad and/or George McCloud, neither of whom was a former all-star like Rice but nonetheless flopped here big time.
Heck - you could've left SF blank and still made a better choice than Ced.
Yeah, Rice was a potent shooter who averaged 26.8 ppg a year or two before he was traded here. First and foremost, he was never the same shooter after that elbow injury/surgery. That admission has to precede everything else that took place between Glen, Phil, and Christina. Phil didn't like Glen's defense. I know, who did, right? Well, Phil had certain things that made him irate enough to actually get up and WALK over to a player to yell at him. One of those things was giving up the baseline and he would yell at Kobe for that like he were a bench scrub. Glen did more of Phil's cardinal sins than any of the regulars and he was only there because someone had to stretch the defense for Shaq. Bear in mind, the 2000 Lakers had the top overall defense in the league if not the Spurs.
We recognized Phil's stress on defense again when he used a cornrowed Ty Lue in the Finals(!1) against Iverson(!~`). Meanwhile, JR had moved from 1:1 practices with Kobe to 1:1 practices with Celestand.
The biggest irony in this is that Phil's hard-on for Luke even after a few injuries robbed him of what little speed he had kept Ariza on the bench. Maybe Luke showed then a glimpse into his future when he had to approach Phil to suggest starting Ariza over himself. That's coaching dag nabbit! On that note...really Phil?
Wonder what Eddie's stats look like against Richmond and Drexler in that same span. I don't seem to recall him doing too well against any of the bulky 2s who could play in the high-low post. JR was just one of those brutes in his brief heyday. A buddy of mine said he was talking to an early 20-something about the NBA and he mentioned JR Rider and they didn't know who the hell he was.
I wonder why he fell apart so fast. Drugs? The bottle?
Quote:
Got Eddie's first gm against Rider when he was with Minnesota. One of Eddie's better rookie games, JR didn't affect him that night. I think it was the 3rd or 4th gm of the year, Eddie had 30. Didn't take long before we knew Logo had scored again.
Nice, have you posted that anywhere? Or will it get pulled?
Neg, but I might. Ced punched their Wolf mascot twice in that game after dunks. Not sure why, but he was frisky that night.
Anyway, if I were to take a crack at that first question, I would say that the single worst thing about JR as a player was his tude. He had some run-ins with the law and at least one arrest that I recall, but that doesn't really account for what happened to him in Portland and Minny. I doubt he left any team he was with on good terms. He was unhappy in his brief stint in Atlanta. I think he partied hard there - choice strip clubs in the Hotlanta area, but JR played it off like he only wanted to win and he was upset with his teammates laughing during losses.
Minny was trying to get rid of Rider and Laettner once they got young Garnett. They were both malcontents. With Portland, he was what he was -- a pretty specific type of offensive player. He could play out on the perimeter, but his strength was on the block w/ his back to the basket. I don't see how the Lakers thought he was going to help them, but I think they probably were desperate to pick someone up to appease Shaq after Kendall Gill scampered off to Jersey. Phil did play him here in the early season, but Phil did that with new players most years without it ever being stated. He played Penberthy a lot at the start of 2000/01 as well. He gradually solidified his rotation as the season went on. People assumed Rider's minutes diminished here because of his tude and checkered past, but Phil was just as likely to boot him from the roster if he didn't like how he played the triangle even if he was an angel. I've learned better than to venture a guess as to anything Phil does without quotes from the horse's mouth to back myself up. Who knows what goes thru Phil's mind.
This is an older vid, might wanna try to set it to 480.
Woo! I just remember a corner 3 to go to 50...let's see if IIRC.
*edit* - It was from the exact side bottom left side that I recalled. Thought it was in the corner more though. Also thought the game was in Minnesota. I'm getting too old for this...
I really wish Chick could have called Kobe's exploits through the 2000's. I'm going to cry myself to sleep now.
Last edited by jonnybravo on Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total
This is an older vid, might wanna try to set it to 480.
Woo! I just remember a corner 3 to go to 50...let's see if IIRC.
*edit* - It was from the exact side bottom left side that I recalled. Thought it was in the corner more though. Also thought the game was in Minnesota. I'm getting too old for this...
I really wish Chick could have called Kobe's exploits through the 2000's. I'm going to cry myself to sleep now.
This is an older vid, might wanna try to set it to 480.
Woo! I just remember a corner 3 to go to 50...let's see if IIRC.
*edit* - It was from the exact side bottom left side that I recalled. Thought it was in the corner more though. Also thought the game was in Minnesota. I'm getting too old for this...
I really wish Chick could have called Kobe's exploits through the 2000's. I'm going to cry myself to sleep now.
Coincidentally, Chick passed away on Aug 5th, so we just crossed the 12 yr mark.
If you cry, just don't do it like Van Der Beek. He set us back a few years with that performance. The 90s were supposed to be our time to emote with masculinity. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
I never really included Glen Rice in the disappointment discussion, but I guess you could build a strong case either way. I ignored him earlier as he had made a decent (but hardly overwhelming) contribution towards that first ring. He was an outstanding shooter prior to being traded to the Lakers, but that shot disappeared after the trade, probably due to both the wrist surgery and demotion to third option. He really wasn't remotely the same player. There was also no shortage of drama, as Rice (bleep) about the Lakers picking up his contract option (oh the outrage) instead of letting him become an unrestricted free agent. His wife chipped in too during the championship run, complaining the Phil Jackson didn't know how to use him (the press had fun with that one). Rice couldn't equal Eddie Jones, despite Eddie's annual disappearing act in the postseason.
Rice did reportedly score against Simple Sarah Palin, but easy layups don't count.
Well the one time Rice was a big disappointment was in 1999. I felt the Jones/Rice trade ruined the season. But I got over that after the team won 3 in a row in 2000-2002. I wonder how Jones would have done if that trade for Rice was never made. But then again, if the team did too well in 1999, then maybe Phil Jackson doesn't coach in LA.
If you cry, just don't do it like Van Der Beek. He set us back a few years with that performance. The 90s were supposed to be our time to emote with masculinity.
Born in the mid to late 70's. Raised in the 80's. Wat da (bleep) happened to us in the 90's? Tail end of Gen X. We did slacking right. Couldn't even embrace our right to our femininity with any kind of aplomb. Gave it a barely passing effort as usual. Mebe the Beek was progressive? Well, at least we're the real children of the 80's...lot of frauds out there that lived a few years in that decade, not through it. Git da (bleep) outta here. That doesn't count monkeys. Sneaky bastards those. It's like the angst. They try to hard. Skinny jeans got it's renewed renaissance with that crew. Cobain is rolling over in his grave.
Nah, Van Der Beek did it right my man with that face. Half ass effort. That's how we roll!
Born in the mid to late 70's. Raised in the 80's. Wat da (bleep) happened to us in the 90's? Tail end of Gen X. We did slacking right.
Our Gen got sh on in every possible venue, there were also articles on Gen X players compared to the previous generations (the 70s guys being coked out, but pay no mind). I'd like to know what this current generation passes for. I'm sure you'll also remember when you were being fed that BS about computers and technology being vital to our futures. Indeed, we had high hopes for the world wide web in 1990, but as you alluded, dopes in skinny jeans with their cute haircuts and pimply faces buried in a "smart"phone is the fruition of that movement. Maybe I'm just pissed because I had to use the card catalog and a word processor in college. I didn't even know what an email was til 95 or so. That's the way it was and we LIKED IT! Get a haircut, Generation Why hippies! The first generation who don't know who The Beatles are. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1473 Location: Colton, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:02 am Post subject:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
japanesebeef1 wrote:
So Vegas . . . who's your choice? Or did I miss it in an earlier post?
You missed two earlier posts. I don't think Glen Rice is a true "disappointment" since he did play a big role on a title team, but he certainly fits the criteria more than Ced does.
Edit: you could've also chosen Vlad Rad and/or George McCloud, neither of whom was a former all-star like Rice but nonetheless flopped here big time.
Heck - you could've left SF blank and still made a better choice than Ced.
I agree with you on Rice. Maybe not up to previous standards, but played well and championship. McCloud maybe, Vlad Rad was never great. Both of those are drop offs, but not from top to bottom. Blank better than Ced? Can you play without a SF? Best team of disappointments with 4 only? I get it that Ced isn't the best choice. He was great for a while, but after the Havasu incident I think he was never great again. I accept your critique, he's not a great choice. But he's mine.
To me, the definition of disappointment is as follows:
The delta between my expectation of their contribution level, and my perception of their actual contribution. So the larger the delta, the larger the disappointment.
So it's hard for me to put guys like Vlad Rad on there because my initial expectation wasn't all that high.
That might be why Dwight is near the top of my list. Only behind Steve Nash. =)
Pau Gasol...never have I ever seen a coach pound a player on the chest to try to get that player to do something, and that coach is the greatest coach in history. Pau Gasol made 60 million dollars after that incident, IMO he is the most disappointing Laker in history.
so disappointing he only got us two rings?
Gasol did not get us two rings... you must not know there were other players on those teams
Yes, literally everyone here is aware that no player has ever won a title playing one-on-five. His point, which was quite obvious, is that the Lakers wouldn't have won either of those titles without Gasol.
Lol why does Voices hate Gasol so much?
Lol. Check out any Gasol thread created in the last year. He's said why many times. His hate for Gasol always cracks me up. Even though I don't agree with him.
Defense?! Where have you been?! Did Mike D'Antoni scare you off the past couple years?!
"Triple entendre don't even ask me how." - Jay-Z
Been mostly lurking. Last years team kinda depressed me.
So Vegas . . . who's your choice? Or did I miss it in an earlier post?
You missed two earlier posts. I don't think Glen Rice is a true "disappointment" since he did play a big role on a title team, but he certainly fits the criteria more than Ced does.
Edit: you could've also chosen Vlad Rad and/or George McCloud, neither of whom was a former all-star like Rice but nonetheless flopped here big time.
Heck - you could've left SF blank and still made a better choice than Ced.
I agree with you on Rice. Maybe not up to previous standards, but played well and championship. McCloud maybe, Vlad Rad was never great. Both of those are drop offs, but not from top to bottom. Blank better than Ced? Can you play without a SF? Best team of disappointments with 4 only? I get it that Ced isn't the best choice. He was great for a while, but after the Havasu incident I think he was never great again. I accept your critique, he's not a great choice. But he's mine.
Fair enough. Just gotta stick up for my man Ced. He, Van Exel and Jones brought a lot of joy to our household in the '90s.
Could you guys imagine Cedric playing with Nash under todays rules in SSOL?
Best off-ball player I think I've ever seen. With Nash he'd put up ridiculous numbers and get himself a fatty contract.
Now that I think about it, he'd probably be a great assistant coach here for Randle and Wesley Johnson. That is if he's capable of communicating well enough.
The biggest irony in this is that Phil's hard-on for Luke even after a few injuries robbed him of what little speed he had kept Ariza on the bench. Maybe Luke showed then a glimpse into his future when he had to approach Phil to suggest starting Ariza over himself. That's coaching dag nabbit! On that note...really Phil?
Luke Walton is severely underrated here, I think. I've been watching a few games from 2008 and '09, he was the perfect "point forward" backup for Lamar Odom. Those were some of the best passing teams I've seen in a long time, and he played a big role.
His D wasn't as bad as people make it out to be, either. He just couldn't handle Paul Pierce at all.
He never should've started over Ariza in hindsight, but then again Ariza was supposed to be a non-shooter and a specialist. Had no idea he'd become such a great "3 and D" type.
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1473 Location: Colton, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
japanesebeef1 wrote:
VegasLakerFan wrote:
japanesebeef1 wrote:
So Vegas . . . who's your choice? Or did I miss it in an earlier post?
You missed two earlier posts. I don't think Glen Rice is a true "disappointment" since he did play a big role on a title team, but he certainly fits the criteria more than Ced does.
Edit: you could've also chosen Vlad Rad and/or George McCloud, neither of whom was a former all-star like Rice but nonetheless flopped here big time.
Heck - you could've left SF blank and still made a better choice than Ced.
I agree with you on Rice. Maybe not up to previous standards, but played well and championship. McCloud maybe, Vlad Rad was never great. Both of those are drop offs, but not from top to bottom. Blank better than Ced? Can you play without a SF? Best team of disappointments with 4 only? I get it that Ced isn't the best choice. He was great for a while, but after the Havasu incident I think he was never great again. I accept your critique, he's not a great choice. But he's mine.
Fair enough. Just gotta stick up for my man Ced. He, Van Exel and Jones brought a lot of joy to our household in the '90s.
Yeah, they were fun to watch. Van Exel was a tough guy with a great attitude.
I never really included Glen Rice in the disappointment discussion, but I guess you could build a strong case either way. I ignored him earlier as he had made a decent (but hardly overwhelming) contribution towards that first ring. He was an outstanding shooter prior to being traded to the Lakers, but that shot disappeared after the trade, probably due to both the wrist surgery and demotion to third option. He really wasn't remotely the same player. There was also no shortage of drama, as Rice (bleep) about the Lakers picking up his contract option (oh the outrage) instead of letting him become an unrestricted free agent. His wife chipped in too during the championship run, complaining the Phil Jackson didn't know how to use him (the press had fun with that one). Rice couldn't equal Eddie Jones, despite Eddie's annual disappearing act in the postseason.
Rice did reportedly score against Simple Sarah Palin, but easy layups don't count.
Glen Rice was a huge disappointment. He cost us a lot to get and as you mentioned he simply was not the same guy who had torn it up in the Eastern Conference in games with 1/1000th of people watching or caring about compared to Lakers games.
We gave up prime Elden Campbell and Eddie Jones for him, that turned out to be a bad trade against, but part of it was the Lakers were not going to pay the big money to extend Jones (Kobe ascending like a Rocket) and even Campbell (flashes of brilliance but concerns of playing with Shaq, bad decison) in that environment pre-Jackson. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
Glen Rice was a huge disappointment. He cost us a lot to get and as you mentioned he simply was not the same guy who had torn it up in the Eastern Conference in games with 1/1000th of people watching or caring about compared to Lakers games.
We gave up prime Elden Campbell and Eddie Jones for him, that turned out to be a bad trade against, but part of it was the Lakers were not going to pay the big money to extend Jones (Kobe ascending like a Rocket) and even Campbell (flashes of brilliance but concerns of playing with Shaq, bad decison) in that environment pre-Jackson.
People get mad at the Laker brass today, but I think losing Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell for Tyronn Lue, Travis Knight, Glen Rice and a half-year rental of JR Reid were two of the worst deals the franchise has ever made.
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