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SDLakersFan
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Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 2044
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 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Glen Rice was a huge disappointment. He cost us a lot to get and as you mentioned he simply was not the same guy who had torn it up in the Eastern Conference in games with 1/1000th of people watching or caring about compared to Lakers games.
We gave up prime Elden Campbell and Eddie Jones for him, that turned out to be a bad trade against, but part of it was the Lakers were not going to pay the big money to extend Jones (Kobe ascending like a Rocket) and even Campbell (flashes of brilliance but concerns of playing with Shaq, bad decison) in that environment pre-Jackson. |
People get mad at the Laker brass today, but I think losing Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell for Tyronn Lue, Travis Knight, Glen Rice and a half-year rental of JR Reid were two of the worst deals the franchise has ever made. |
Looking back, yeah I agree. I hated seeing Nick leave tho...he was actually my first favorite Laker. |
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VegasLakerFan
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Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Glen Rice was a huge disappointment. He cost us a lot to get and as you mentioned he simply was not the same guy who had torn it up in the Eastern Conference in games with 1/1000th of people watching or caring about compared to Lakers games.
We gave up prime Elden Campbell and Eddie Jones for him, that turned out to be a bad trade against, but part of it was the Lakers were not going to pay the big money to extend Jones (Kobe ascending like a Rocket) and even Campbell (flashes of brilliance but concerns of playing with Shaq, bad decison) in that environment pre-Jackson. |
People get mad at the Laker brass today, but I think losing Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell for Tyronn Lue, Travis Knight, Glen Rice and a half-year rental of JR Reid were two of the worst deals the franchise has ever made. |
Looking back, yeah I agree. I hated seeing Nick leave tho...he was actually my first favorite Laker. |
He was up there for me, too. His play against Seattle and San Antonio in 1995 made it feel like the Lakers were finally fighting back after getting crapped on for a few years in a row.
I know Shaq was kinda butthurt over his "cancun" chant, but Jerry West's revenge trade was a horrible decision. They should've kept him and either stuck with him or found a better deal than Lue and Battie/Travis Knight. HORRIBLE trade. |
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Wilkes52
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Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2415
Location: Far from home
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| I thought Nick pretty much fulfilled the arc of his career potential for us. He's almost the model for the flip side of this thread: guys who fulfilled expectations. A nice player for sure, maybe an ideal sixth man, very fun to watch, a fearless one-way player, and also a guy who became a little too hard to understand by his bosses. They grew to mistrust him. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Glen Rice did the best he could. He came to the Lakers after a right wrist surgery. He wasn't the same shooter after that.
I wish Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell stayed as Laker players while Phil Jackson was a head coach. You want to talk about extending the championship window? Keeping the team healthy? Actually getting out into transition?
The Lakers downtraded the talent to feed the egos of the superstar players.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Glen Rice was a huge disappointment. He cost us a lot to get and as you mentioned he simply was not the same guy who had torn it up in the Eastern Conference in games with 1/1000th of people watching or caring about compared to Lakers games.
We gave up prime Elden Campbell and Eddie Jones for him, that turned out to be a bad trade against, but part of it was the Lakers were not going to pay the big money to extend Jones (Kobe ascending like a Rocket) and even Campbell (flashes of brilliance but concerns of playing with Shaq, bad decison) in that environment pre-Jackson. |
People get mad at the Laker brass today, but I think losing Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell for Tyronn Lue, Travis Knight, Glen Rice and a half-year rental of JR Reid were two of the worst deals the franchise has ever made. |
Considering it led to one ring, and then trading Rice for Grant and Foster led to another, I am fine with those deals.
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Trevacious
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Robert Horry, 2003 Playoffs. 2 for 38 from three-point range. Started thinking about that nickname too much and completely lost his touch.
| AllorNothing wrote: | | Malone played great defense in the Western Conference Finals against Duncan and Malone was playing with one leg!. He literally shut down Duncan better than Shaq ever had. |
Hell yeah, I loved watching him pull the chair out from under Duncan in the post and causing the whistle for traveling. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Glen Rice did the best he could. He came to the Lakers after a right wrist surgery. He wasn't the same shooter after that.
I wish Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell stayed as Laker players while Phil Jackson was a head coach. You want to talk about extending the championship window? Keeping the team healthy? Actually getting out into transition?
The Lakers downtraded the talent to feed the egos of the superstar players. |
The downgrade to feed Shaq's ego was pretty damn severe. Though I have fond memories of Lue guarding Iverson during the 2001 Finals, he and Travis Knight (reacquired via Tony Battie) were a serious talent downgrade from Nick the Quick.
Dumping Campbell and Eddie was unfortunate, but necessary given the financial constraints and what was transpiring on the court. I loved Eddie, but would disappear every damn postseason. We also had an embryonic superstar at SG, which made him expendable. Campbell was great at C, but never worked out at PF with Shaq. On paper the Shaq and Campbell front court made me drool back in the summer of 1996, but what actually transpired on the court was underwhelming. Eddie and Eldon had to go.
The Rice acquisition looked brilliant. We were consolidating two players who would soon demand far more in salary than Rice alone would cost, and that factored in Rice playing at his old near-superstar level of play. People forget that he was absolutely money with that outside shot, but as you pointed out it abandoned him after surgery. The regression to third option didn't help either, as most shooters need to establish rhythm. I also had the impression he was souring on the game (perhaps a spillover from the unmet money demands) as he seemed to pick up weight.
I guess one of the reasons why it is easy to dismiss Rice's contributions is because we won two more championships without him. Yet what everyone seems to forget was that the Lakers were perennial disappointments prior to Phil. Expectations were high though our roster was weaker in 1999, and to make matters worse Kobe Bryant suffered an injury that took him out the first six weeks of the regular season, making that roster even weaker. Rice did very well those first six weeks, and by the time Kobe returned to the lineup we were already something like 11-4. That really helped the morale of that team, and built confidence that carried through the season and into the postseason.
To me, that was perhaps Rice's greatest contribution as a Laker. |
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EmoDias
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Yall forgot about Mitch Richmond, sure he was old by the time he got to us but he still put up good numbers the year prior. Once he came to the Lakers it became evident that he had a fork stuck in him. Oh and Jerome Kersey too. |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| EmoDias wrote: | | Yall forgot about Mitch Richmond, sure he was old by the time he got to us but he still put up good numbers the year prior. Once he came to the Lakers it became evident that he had a fork stuck in him. Oh and Jerome Kersey too. |
Check my post |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: |
Looking back, yeah I agree. I hated seeing Nick leave tho...he was actually my first favorite Laker. |
Me too, I hated losing Nick Van Exel. And getting nothing for him essentially was even worse.
NVE brought pride back to the Lakers, he did a great job for a few years and the team was on the rise even before Kobe and Shaq came over to put us over the top.
Lakers overreacted in trading him, but it ended up working out well in the long run as far as titles. But they could have won titles with NVE also, he was a good enough player for sure.
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nslander32
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: |
Orlando Woolridge. He never fit in 100% with the team but that guy was another freak of nature. Orlando Woolridge. |
I have an interview of his with Chick where he says explicitly that the Lakers were the first and only team he had ever been on where they practiced offensive basics that they actually used in games. Not only that, but he said he was shocked at what serious practice habits from his teammates actually looked like. He came here from the Bulls where he and Mike and Quintin Dailey had free reign. What other option did those Bulls have? For 2 years in LA, Orlando looked like he was about to turn a corner only to fall right back into the ditch, looking confused, going back to old habits such as his "F it" charges to the rim (often bowling someone over). Then he'd have games where he was putting in lob plays in transition and being exactly what the Lakers had fantasized. When he had it right, he had every Laker fan thinking 3 peat. One of his d0nX on Manute produced the loudest Chick "Slaaaaaam DUNK!" in history. Hilarious clip. Our very first game against the Orlando Magic, it just so happened that Magic and Orlando had a good game, so KCAL put up a split screen for their stats (ORLANDO | MAGIC). Good guy though. If he was a little luckier and fell onto a good team like Boston or something, he would've known how to play for more than just stats. |
"There's a D in Woolridge, but its silent" |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Glen Rice did the best he could. He came to the Lakers after a right wrist surgery. He wasn't the same shooter after that.
I wish Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell stayed as Laker players while Phil Jackson was a head coach. You want to talk about extending the championship window? Keeping the team healthy? Actually getting out into transition?
The Lakers downtraded the talent to feed the egos of the superstar players. |
The downgrade to feed Shaq's ego was pretty damn severe. Though I have fond memories of Lue guarding Iverson during the 2001 Finals, he and Travis Knight (reacquired via Tony Battie) were a serious talent downgrade from Nick the Quick.
Dumping Campbell and Eddie was unfortunate, but necessary given the financial constraints and what was transpiring on the court. I loved Eddie, but would disappear every damn postseason. We also had an embryonic superstar at SG, which made him expendable. Campbell was great at C, but never worked out at PF with Shaq. On paper the Shaq and Campbell front court made me drool back in the summer of 1996, but what actually transpired on the court was underwhelming. Eddie and Eldon had to go.
The Rice acquisition looked brilliant. We were consolidating two players who would soon demand far more in salary than Rice alone would cost, and that factored in Rice playing at his old near-superstar level of play. People forget that he was absolutely money with that outside shot, but as you pointed out it abandoned him after surgery. The regression to third option didn't help either, as most shooters need to establish rhythm. I also had the impression he was souring on the game (perhaps a spillover from the unmet money demands) as he seemed to pick up weight.
I guess one of the reasons why it is easy to dismiss Rice's contributions is because we won two more championships without him. Yet what everyone seems to forget was that the Lakers were perennial disappointments prior to Phil. Expectations were high though our roster was weaker in 1999, and to make matters worse Kobe Bryant suffered an injury that took him out the first six weeks of the regular season, making that roster even weaker. Rice did very well those first six weeks, and by the time Kobe returned to the lineup we were already something like 11-4. That really helped the morale of that team, and built confidence that carried through the season and into the postseason.
To me, that was perhaps Rice's greatest contribution as a Laker. |
Shaq's and Bryant's egos were severe, so much so, that Rice scored 40 points against Portland in the last home game before the playoffs in '99.
That guy was always open because of Shaq and Bryant. But two guys wanted to get 30ppg, not really split it with Rice.
Rice, didn't really have the intangibles outside of elite perimeter shooting. Usually 3rd option players contribute something else on the floor; defense, rebounding, playmaking.
Eddie Jones would have been Sefalosha. I think his personality would have fit the team better too.
Elden Campbell would have extended Shaq's career. Overpaid back up center and part time PF? Sure, but he averaged 20/10 when Shaq was out of the line up.
That's how powerful the perimeter was.
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nslander32
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Glen Rice did the best he could. He came to the Lakers after a right wrist surgery. He wasn't the same shooter after that.
I wish Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell stayed as Laker players while Phil Jackson was a head coach. You want to talk about extending the championship window? Keeping the team healthy? Actually getting out into transition?
The Lakers downtraded the talent to feed the egos of the superstar players. |
Pretty much. I suspect many of those who gloss over that deal because the team later won a chip with GR are closeted former apologists of Del Harris. Anyone suggesting Phil Jackson would have been unlikely to to have won with Eddie and Elden instead of Glen Rice is being dishonest. Also, assuming it was made purely for financial reasons, the org had YEARS to craft a decent deal. They were dumping talent and there was no reason not to get a pick. For instance, Charlotte was out of the Lotto at the time of the trade- if they refused to fork over what ultimately became Baron Davis, move on.
Supposedly NVE hastened his exist not only because of "Cancun", but also because of inappropriate comments directed to the owner's daughter. If so, he punched hi sown ticket. If not, we exchanged one of the better starting PGs in the game for Tony Battie and Tyronn Lu in order to placate Del.
There weren't many, but Jerry West's biggest sin was his loyalty to Delmer. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32752
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| nslander32 wrote: |
Pretty much. I suspect many of those who gloss over that deal because the team later won a chip with GR are closeted former apologists of Del Harris. Anyone suggesting Phil Jackson would have been unlikely to to have won with Eddie and Elden instead of Glen Rice is being dishonest. |
Strawman argument.
| Quote: | | Also, assuming it was made purely for financial reasons, the org had YEARS to craft a decent deal. |
What?!? Says who? It was common knowledge that Elden and Eddie were traded for financial reasons. They were both a season away from free agency. Eddie was a poor performer in the postseason; he sealed his doom when Jeff Hornacek played a decisive role in destroying the Lakers WCF prior to be traded. Eldon played well prior to Shaq's arrival, but crappy afterwards. Hell, Shaq at one point was proclaiming that Mario Bennett was our best PF. You really think the Lakers were going to pay a huge salary for a backup to Shaq? No way in Hades. Had West not found a trading partner, Elden would have eventually walked without so much as a Laker bid.
Acquiring Rice was a good idea on paper. Elden was not worth his contract as a Laker, and he had one foot out the door. Eddie was an All Star and was coming off his rookie contract. We couldn't afford him and he frankly was not producing during the postseason. He was not going to take a substantial discount just to hang in LA, he had to be traded. |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | SDLakersFan wrote: |
Looking back, yeah I agree. I hated seeing Nick leave tho...he was actually my first favorite Laker. |
Me too, I hated losing Nick Van Exel. And getting nothing for him essentially was even worse.
NVE brought pride back to the Lakers, he did a great job for a few years and the team was on the rise even before Kobe and Shaq came over to put us over the top.
Lakers overreacted in trading him, but it ended up working out well in the long run as far as titles. But they could have won titles with NVE also, he was a good enough player for sure. |
Getting what we got for Nick made more sense than the FO firing Harris 12 RS gms after Nick was gone. It seemed logical that he was dealt because he and the coach could no longer see eye to eye and then the coach is gone too. Huh?!...
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GonzagaAlum
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Eddie ended up getting paid BIG TIME, so that's why I don't really fault the deal.
Ironically while everyone loved Eddie.... Elden was the bigger loss.
It's interesting because Eddie would have probably been a better option at the 3 instead of Fox, but Fox was the teams enforcer with the wing type players (Shaq obviously in the paint), I'm not sure if eddie had that in him. Which most teams do need an enforcer against the gritty teams (see the Lakers finals loss to the Celtics with Vlad/Walton).
What hurt the Lakers though as pointed out was not getting value.
Glen Rice was not needed.
The move that really bugs me however, was not drafting Tayshaun Prince. They trade UP in the draft... to get Rush. Prince goes later... but his length and the fact that he was a money shooter in college, and really in a position of need bugged me.
Rush was a SG and they had Kobe. They needed a SF as Fox had begun to get old... Prince was the best on the board.
Ironically the pick ended up doubly biting them in the ass... Prince was key to the Dtown title, with his shutdown D of Kobe... plus with Fox aging... no SF and PF became too much for the team to overcome. |
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gumby
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2500
Location: Inland Empire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I missed NVE.
Even though he cancuned, pushed the ref, and didn't get along with Del, he was the guttiest guy on the team. He made up in spades for Eddie Jones dissapearing in the playoffs.
Until young Kobe got his mojo, NVE was still the fearless clutch player he was and the only real player they had that could break down a defense with his drives.
I guess its all afterthought wondering how he would have done in the three peat era.
Bye.
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"This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O. |
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gumby
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Posts: 2500
Location: Inland Empire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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About Rice, I still consider him a bust for the Lakers.
Servicable, yes.
But for what the Lakers gave up to get the "all star mvp", he wasn't worth it.
They must have seen that tape of him and fell in love.
At least they didn't fall for Allan Houston, that would have been disastrous.
Bye.
_________________
"This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13221
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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How would Van Exel perform in the triangle?
Eddie Jones usually disappointed in the playoffs but he came up huge in 98 against Seattle (a 61 win team that crushed LA in game 1) and even when he was off, he was a much better defender than Rice. Trading away Jones ruined the 99 season because the defense took a big step down with Rice replacing him and the team wasn't able to get out in transition as much. But on the other hand, the disappointment of 99 led to the hiring of Phil Jackson.
I think people are forgetting one reason the trade for Rice was made. A year earlier, there were rumors of a possible trade of Eddie Jones for Mitch Richmond. When Jones disappeared against Utah in the playoffs, people thought West made a huge mistake by not making that deal happen. As a result, the next year Jerry West "fixed" his mistake when he pulled the trigger and traded Jones for a scorer. |
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Trevacious
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | Orlando Woolridge. He never fit in 100% with the team but that guy was another freak of nature. |
Nobody looked more spectacular Missing the dunk. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| George McCloud. Lakers traded Joe Klein, a first and a second round pick for him to try to find someone to stretch the floor for Shaq mid-season. McCloud had averaged 19 points per game the season before in Dallas, and was averaging 14 that year. He played 23 games averaging 4 points and shooting 35% in limited minutes. Became disgruntled and they didn't even put him on the playoff roster. |
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japanesebeef1
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1473
Location: Colton, CA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | George McCloud. Lakers traded Joe Klein, a first and a second round pick for him to try to find someone to stretch the floor for Shaq mid-season. McCloud had averaged 19 points per game the season before in Dallas, and was averaging 14 that year. He played 23 games averaging 4 points and shooting 35% in limited minutes. Became disgruntled and they didn't even put him on the playoff roster. |
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding . . . we have a winner! Good post. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: | | People get mad at the Laker brass today, but I think losing Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones and Elden Campbell for Tyronn Lue, Travis Knight, Glen Rice and a half-year rental of JR Reid were two of the worst deals the franchise has ever made. |
Looking back, yeah I agree. I hated seeing Nick leave tho...he was actually my first favorite Laker. |
I absolutely agree with this. Eddie could have been a big guard in the triangle. Nick was an assassin. And for all the flack he caught, Elden was a solid player. |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| japanesebeef1 wrote: | | J.C. Smith wrote: | | George McCloud. Lakers traded Joe Klein, a first and a second round pick for him to try to find someone to stretch the floor for Shaq mid-season. McCloud had averaged 19 points per game the season before in Dallas, and was averaging 14 that year. He played 23 games averaging 4 points and shooting 35% in limited minutes. Became disgruntled and they didn't even put him on the playoff roster. |
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding . . . we have a winner! Good post. |
Wow, I had completely blocked that guy from my memory. It's all coming flooding back unfortunately... |
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Sccit
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Posts: 886
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| i named george mcloud too...people sleepin on my list |
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