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Chronicle
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 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Wait, hang on just a sec... Dreamshake do you really think McHale is a better than average coach? 
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Wait, hang on just a sec... Dreamshake do you really think McHale is a better than average coach? |
No. I just don't see why anyone would say Kerr, Hornacek or Joerger are. That goes for any team that finished 6 and below in the West last season, aside for the Mavs who clearly have a great coach. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | You're just too emotionally invested in the outcome of this discussion to speak rationally about it. I mean, I get it man. You're a Rockets fan (that was obvious from the start) and 4th seed feels better than 8th seed. Totally get it. And you'll say anything to hold to that. |
Please don't pull that weak card. I am asking you very rational questions. Comparing the talent remaining on each roster is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how losing a player that didn't provide much for the majority of the season, that the team won 65% of their games without, is a key loss (since we are projecting regular season record)....is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how Lin's production can't be replaced is a very rational question. If you want to take your own advice then we can continue to discuss the topic. If not then we can end it here agreeing to disagree.
Last edited by Dreamshake on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kind of nice to have Asik as a backup C if Dwight gets hurt or in foul trouble. So Dorsey/DMo is enough now? Not sure about that. |
Sure, it's nice to have a backup like that, but how does not having one equate to more losses? How did we manage to win 65% of our games without him, when he missed close to half the season? The Rockets actually played a lot without Asik. They did just fine since they have a great center.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Same with Lin. Bev's knee, how's that doing? I guess you have Nick Johnson now, but we'll see how he fares against NBA comp. |
His knee is fine. Surgery was not required. We have Johnson now and the PG we drafted last year. I also expect the team to sign another vet PG at some point. Either way, how is what Lin gave hard to replace? That's the question. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| fadeaway3 wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | Laughing that some people actually think Houston will miss the playoffs and yet at the same time believe in the idea of the Lakers making the 7th or 8th seed! Either of those things could happen, but the reality is that neither of those things will happen. |
On paper it sounds laughable but the Rockets leadership or lack thereof is a huge problem. Harden and Howard are not leaders despite their chest thumping. This team is held together by tape and bubble gum, and at first sight of rain its gonna get ugly. |
We are discussing getting to the playoffs. Last I checked, Harden led his team to the playoffs two years in a row (including one year when he didn't have much around him) and Howard has led his team to the playoffs for the majority of his career. Neither player has proven that they can lead a team to the title. Not too many players Harden's age have led a team to the postseason twice (see Kevin Love) and not too many players have led a team to the Finals like Howard has.
Who is the great leader on the Blazers, Grizz, Suns or Warriors? What Clipper has led a team further than Howard has? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Kind of nice to have Asik as a backup C if Dwight gets hurt or in foul trouble. So Dorsey/DMo is enough now? Not sure about that. |
Sure, it's nice to have a backup like that, but how does not having one equate to more losses? How did we manage to win 65% of our games without him, when he missed close to half the season? The Rockets actually played a lot without Asik. They did just fine since they have a great center.
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Same with Lin. Bev's knee, how's that doing? I guess you have Nick Johnson now, but we'll see how he fares against NBA comp. |
His knee is fine. Surgery was not required. We have Johnson now and the PG we drafted last year. I also expect the team to sign another vet PG at some point. Either way, how is what Lin gave hard to replace? That's the question. |
Since you've soured so much on Asik/Lin, would you finally admit that Morey's foray into getting them was a failure (since you admit they amounted to very little last year)? What was their purpose if they sucked so badly last year?
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Jason.fxt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: |
His knee is fine. Surgery was not required. We have Johnson now and the PG we drafted last year. I also expect the team to sign another vet PG at some point. Either way, how is what Lin gave hard to replace? That's the question. |
I think most independent observers agree that the rockets got worse with the loss of asik, parsons, and lin.
Would you agree that Lin was the second best playmaker on the rockets last year? If so, who will replace that role? |
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qiantom
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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With the current roster, Houston is going to be fine if they stay healthy. If either Harden or Howard misses more than 10 games, they could be in big trouble with the depth gone. Houston had a good record last year with either Harden or Howard not playing.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Please don't pull that weak card. I am asking you very rational questions. Comparing the talent remaining on each roster is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how losing a player that didn't provide much for the majority of the season, that the team won 65% of their games without, is a key loss (since we are projecting regular season record)....is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how Lin's production can't be replaced is a very rational question. If you want to take your own advice then we can continue to discuss the topic. If not then we can end it here agreeing to disagree. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | You're just too emotionally invested in the outcome of this discussion to speak rationally about it. I mean, I get it man. You're a Rockets fan (that was obvious from the start) and 4th seed feels better than 8th seed. Totally get it. And you'll say anything to hold to that. |
Please don't pull that weak card. I am asking you very rational questions. Comparing the talent remaining on each roster is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how losing a player that didn't provide much for the majority of the season, that the team won 65% of their games without, is a key loss (since we are projecting regular season record)....is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how Lin's production can't be replaced is a very rational question. If you want to take your own advice then we can continue to discuss the topic. If not then we can end it here agreeing to disagree. |
How was it weak? I could tell you were speaking from a Rocket fan perspective before I even confirmed you were a Rockets fan! Pretty strong there if you ask me =)
Once again, you're pulling out all the stops to try to keep that 4th seed placement. I get why you're doing it.
Even if you had the exact same team as last year, you could still be the 5th seed quite easily given the fact you had the same record as the actual 5th seed last year.
Yet, you say 5th seed is "unreasonable". If you can't speak from a reasonable perspective, there's no discussion to be had. But quite frankly, that is often the case when people irrationally approach discussions from a fan's seat. |
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fadeaway3
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | Laughing that some people actually think Houston will miss the playoffs and yet at the same time believe in the idea of the Lakers making the 7th or 8th seed! Either of those things could happen, but the reality is that neither of those things will happen. |
On paper it sounds laughable but the Rockets leadership or lack thereof is a huge problem. Harden and Howard are not leaders despite their chest thumping. This team is held together by tape and bubble gum, and at first sight of rain its gonna get ugly. |
We are discussing getting to the playoffs. Last I checked, Harden led his team to the playoffs two years in a row (including one year when he didn't have much around him) and Howard has led his team to the playoffs for the majority of his career. Neither player has proven that they can lead a team to the title. Not too many players Harden's age have led a team to the postseason twice (see Kevin Love) and not too many players have led a team to the Finals like Howard has.
Who is the great leader on the Blazers, Grizz, Suns or Warriors? What Clipper has led a team further than Howard has? |
I don't agree that he didn't have much around him. It was basically the same team -Howard. If anything it proves the importance of Asik, Lin, and Parsons. Now that those guys are gone, its going to be interesting how things work out.
I for one don't think the Rockets are a better team than last season. So I predict a reduction in wins, and probably another first round exit. |
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JBizzlethethird
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Cool426 wrote: | | jjww28 wrote: | Lin is a supersub, he played more 4th quarter and OT minutes per game than anyone else, Go check clutch time stats at nba.com, one of two rockets players could creat their own shoot effectively at clutch time.
Lin was nominated "Player of the week" two times last season, why? Beacuse he puts up big stats and wins over good teams during the absence of Harden. Is there any other bench player nominated twice last season? |
Go back to Lin's thread with this. Here is about Houston's pick.
No one cares what he did in the 4th quarter OT minutes last year.
No one cares about his nominations last year.
No one cares about his clutch time shooting last year. |
(tentatively raising his hand)...I kind of care 
It actually goes to the point of where the pick will fall. |
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JBizzlethethird
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: |
I'm a Rockets fan that knows who the instrumental players were for us last season. You are a Lakers fan calling a guy (Asik) who didn't provide much for the majority of the season a key loss, even though the team won 65% of their games without him. I can't recall any other instance of a player being considered a key loss when he didn't provide much for the majority of the year and the team won 65% of thier games without him. In your unbiased view, please make me understand how that player is a key loss? In your unbiased view, please describe what Lin brought to the team that another bench guard can't provide? |
Stop quoting the win percentage. Small sample sizes do not accurately predict future performance. |
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| qiantom wrote: | With the current roster, Houston is going to be fine if they stay healthy. If either Harden or Howard misses more than 10 games, they could be in big trouble with the depth gone. Houston had a good record last year with either Harden or Howard not playing.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Please don't pull that weak card. I am asking you very rational questions. Comparing the talent remaining on each roster is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how losing a player that didn't provide much for the majority of the season, that the team won 65% of their games without, is a key loss (since we are projecting regular season record)....is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how Lin's production can't be replaced is a very rational question. If you want to take your own advice then we can continue to discuss the topic. If not then we can end it here agreeing to disagree. |
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If your talking regular season sure. Come playoffs, they ain't doing squat.
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JBizzlethethird
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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1. SAS
2. OKC
3. LAC (unless Blake's injury is worse than reported)
4. Port (their young players should improve as they enter their primes)
5. Mem (Should vastly improve their position by simply remaining healthy - best Center in the league)
6. Dal (very good coach. Improved offense -Parsons- and defense -Chandler-)
7. Hou (barring injuries)
8. GS
My two cents. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Since you've soured so much on Asik/Lin, would you finally admit that Morey's foray into getting them was a failure (since you admit they amounted to very little last year)? What was their purpose if they sucked so badly last year? |
I haven't soured on Asik. I'm simply stating the fact that the team won a ton of games last regular season without getting much of a contribution from him. I'm failing to understand how the team would be in trouble now without him.
I've been sour on Lin since we acquired him.
I don't think it was a failure to acquire either as Morey paid them $5M per season. That's average player money. I do think it was a mistake to give up assets to dump Lin at this point, as opposed to holding those assets for a midseason trade (since no star came in with his caproom). |
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EddieJonesss
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| fadeaway3 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | fadeaway3 wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | Laughing that some people actually think Houston will miss the playoffs and yet at the same time believe in the idea of the Lakers making the 7th or 8th seed! Either of those things could happen, but the reality is that neither of those things will happen. |
On paper it sounds laughable but the Rockets leadership or lack thereof is a huge problem. Harden and Howard are not leaders despite their chest thumping. This team is held together by tape and bubble gum, and at first sight of rain its gonna get ugly. |
We are discussing getting to the playoffs. Last I checked, Harden led his team to the playoffs two years in a row (including one year when he didn't have much around him) and Howard has led his team to the playoffs for the majority of his career. Neither player has proven that they can lead a team to the title. Not too many players Harden's age have led a team to the postseason twice (see Kevin Love) and not too many players have led a team to the Finals like Howard has.
Who is the great leader on the Blazers, Grizz, Suns or Warriors? What Clipper has led a team further than Howard has? |
I don't agree that he didn't have much around him. It was basically the same team -Howard. If anything it proves the importance of Asik, Lin, and Parsons. Now that those guys are gone, its going to be interesting how things work out.
I for one don't think the Rockets are a better team than last season. So I predict a reduction in wins, and probably another first round exit. |
Yaaaaa... that's about right. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason.fxt wrote: |
Would you agree that Lin was the second best playmaker on the rockets last year? If so, who will replace that role? |
I would disagree that Lin was a good playmaker. He turned the ball over too much (4.1 dimes to 2.5 turnovers). The Rockets system doesn't require a playmaking PG. It requires a PG that can play defense and hit open shots.
I do think we will miss Parson's playmaking, but not to the degree of falling out of the playoffs. His playmaking wasn't that vital to the team. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | How was it weak? I could tell you were speaking from a Rocket fan perspective before I even confirmed you were a Rockets fan! Pretty strong there if you ask me =) |
It's weak because every question I have posed, some that you flat out avoided, is quite rational.
| ringfinger wrote: | | Yet, you say 5th seed is "unreasonable". |
I said predicting a fall out of the playoffs because of the players we lost is unreasonable. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JBizzlethethird wrote: | | Stop quoting the win percentage. Small sample sizes do not accurately predict future performance. |
41% of the regular season is a small sample size? Interesting.... |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | How was it weak? I could tell you were speaking from a Rocket fan perspective before I even confirmed you were a Rockets fan! Pretty strong there if you ask me =) |
It's weak because every question I have posed, some that you flat out avoided, is quite rational. |
The answers to your questions are irrelevant. Even if you put out the EXACT same team as you had last season, you could still come 5th considering you had the same record as the 5th seeded team.
| ringfinger wrote: | | Yet, you say 5th seed is "unreasonable". |
I said predicting a fall out of the playoffs because of the players we lost is unreasonable.[/quote]
There is clearly some confusion here.
I said ....
| Quote: | | ...it isn't unreasonable to surmise that maybe they'd finish 5-8 in the West. |
In response, you said...
Thusly, you said being a 5th seed is unreasonable. How is that possible when you had the same record as the 5th seed this year? |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | qiantom wrote: | With the current roster, Houston is going to be fine if they stay healthy. If either Harden or Howard misses more than 10 games, they could be in big trouble with the depth gone. Houston had a good record last year with either Harden or Howard not playing.
| Dreamshake wrote: | | Please don't pull that weak card. I am asking you very rational questions. Comparing the talent remaining on each roster is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how losing a player that didn't provide much for the majority of the season, that the team won 65% of their games without, is a key loss (since we are projecting regular season record)....is a very rational question. Asking you to describe how Lin's production can't be replaced is a very rational question. If you want to take your own advice then we can continue to discuss the topic. If not then we can end it here agreeing to disagree. |
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If your talking regular season sure. Come playoffs, they ain't doing squat. |
This thread is discussing your draft pick from us. I don't believe the playoffs have anything to do with that. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | There is clearly some confusion here.
I said ....
| Quote: | | ...it isn't unreasonable to surmise that maybe they'd finish 5-8 in the West. |
In response, you said...
Thusly, you said being a 5th seed is unreasonable. How is that possible when you had the same record as the 5th seed this year? |
Then that is my mistake. I don't think that is unreasonable. I do think it is unreasonable to say we will miss the playoffs. |
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Jason.fxt
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Joined: 11 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: |
I would disagree that Lin was a good playmaker. He turned the ball over too much (4.1 dimes to 2.5 turnovers). The Rockets system doesn't require a playmaking PG. It requires a PG that can play defense and hit open shots.
I do think we will miss Parson's playmaking, but not to the degree of falling out of the playoffs. His playmaking wasn't that vital to the team. |
interesting that I saw things differently.
I felt that Parsons was not a good playmaker but a very good finisher. he would run and cut and be the recipient of passes from Lin and Harden.
never felt Parsons could create his own shot or create shots for others very well. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | There is clearly some confusion here.
I said ....
| Quote: | | ...it isn't unreasonable to surmise that maybe they'd finish 5-8 in the West. |
In response, you said...
Thusly, you said being a 5th seed is unreasonable. How is that possible when you had the same record as the 5th seed this year? |
Then that is my mistake. I don't think that is unreasonable. I do think it is unreasonable to say we will miss the playoffs. |
What's the lowest win total a person could predict for the Rockets before you'd say that that is impossibly low? 45? 48? 51? 60? |
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qiantom
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| fadeaway3 wrote: | I don't agree that he didn't have much around him. It was basically the same team -Howard. If anything it proves the importance of Asik, Lin, and Parsons. Now that those guys are gone, its going to be interesting how things work out.
I for one don't think the Rockets are a better team than last season. So I predict a reduction in wins, and probably another first round exit. |
You need to understand this using Rockets' bball philosophy. You see, Harden is the cornerstone while the other three players are "pieces". "Pieces" don't win games. They are there to serve the cornerstone. |
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