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rwongega
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Location: UCLA -> NY
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 Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | I totally get why the guy lied about his exposure to get into the US, but i find it really difficult to believe that:
A: he didn't connect his exposure to his symptoms, having been around it and them.
B. He figured that holding back information about his exposure to avoid having the hospital know he had lied would have been more important than treating a disease with an astronomical mortality rate.
"gee, i'm going to hold back details so no one knows i was in a region where there was ebola, i sure hope they still figure out if i have ebola..." |
You better believe this happens. More often than you think and not necessarily with just ebola.
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jodeke
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Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
I got this feeling when the story first broke. I couldn't and don't understand why a person was sent home after giving staff his itinerary and displaying all the symptoms of Ebola.
Why wasn't he suspected of having the disease?
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Why didn't he just tell them, "I just arrived from Monrovia [Liberia] and I believe I handled a person who was infected with Ebola".
I hate how the media, the host family, Jesse Jackson and even the CDC are trying to shift all the blame to the hospital. Sure, the hospital slipped up but if Duncan had been honest up front he could've received treatment sooner.
Now, a health care worker from that same hospital has tested positive for Ebola.
Yahoo |
Ebola patient told hospital he had been to Liberia
LINK
He told the nurse he had come from Libira
| Quote: | | Mark Lester, executive vice president at Texas Health Resources, said the patient "volunteered that he had been to Africa in response to the nurse operating the checklist and asking that question." |
According to this article the nurse was at fault not Duncan. |
Yes, but he also failed to disclose he had handled a person who was most likely infected with Ebola. Not once, but twice.
It's no different than any other visit to the doctor. You have to be honest to help them diagnose the issue. The pregnant woman he tried to help in Liberia died later that same day he tried to take her to the hospital. He couldn't even drop her off at the hospital because it was overwhelmed with Ebola patients. You can't tell me he didn't suspect he had come in contact with it. |
I'm not telling you anything, I'm posting articles.
If you were a professional who was told by a person with a fever and Ebola symptoms he had just arrived from Liberia as that professional don't you have the responsibility to make the appropriate decision?
The hospital is admitting it dropped the ball why can't you? |
You posted an opinion that you couldn't understand why he was sent home and I responded that if Duncan had been completely honest up front he would received greater scrutiny by the hospital staff.
The hospital did make an error with a newly established protocol but it was Duncan's dishonesty that was the primary cause of his delayed treatment. |
Why are you placing so much onus on Duncan? The nurse dropped the ball, something the hospital admitted.
You seem to be saying he knew he had Ebola and it was his responsibility to tell the nurse he had been in contact with a person who died from Ebola.
He told the nurse he had just arrived from Liberia and he had Ebola symptoms. They had protocol in place which she ignored.
His not telling her was a mistake but I don't see how you can say it was dishonest. |
That IS what I'm saying. He had to at least suspect he was infected given the area in Monrovia he had just left and that the neighbor he helped was seriously ill while he was exposed to her and died before he left for the U.S. You could argue he was in denial about it, but that's not the hospital's fault. The fault is still his.
His hospital records have been made public and the notes say he"Africa", not specifically "Liberia". They also show they didn't just stick a thermometer in his mouth, write him a prescription, and send him on his merry way.
| Quote: | | When he first showed up at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, the man complained of abdominal pain, dizziness, a headache and decreased urination. He reported severe pain — rating it an eight on a scale of 10. Doctors gave him CT scans to rule out appendicitis, stroke and numerous other serious ailments. Ultimately, he was prescribed antibiotics and told to take Tylenol, then returned to the apartment where he was staying with a Dallas woman and three other people. |
| Quote: | | The documents also show that a nurse recorded early in Duncan's first hospital visit that he recently came to the U.S. from Africa, though he denied having been in contact with anyone sick. |
HuffPost |
So you're saying a man who knew he had deadly disease purposely hid the truth that would allow him treatment for that ailment? Really?
Why are you disregarding the hospitals admitting they dropped the ball?
Wasn't the protocol in place for all foreign travel? |
I haven't disregarded the fact the hospital made an error and even acknowledged that in this same thread.
The red flag is not for ALL foreign travel. If hospitals started Ebola fire drills on everyone whose traveled to a foreign country recently they would be overwhelmed.
I can only speculate as to why he wasn't completely honest about his travel origins or his exposure to Ebola. I only maintain primary the delay in correctly diagnosing Duncan with Ebola was Duncan himself.
You can label his failure to disclose his exposure to an infected person as "mistake" instead of dishonesty but as you hold the hospital responsible for their "mistake" why isn't Duncan responsible for his? |
| Quote: | | Thank you lakersken80. This has caused me to change courses about him in my responses to numero-ocho. I was wrong he did know and should have made known his contact with the disease. |
I still give some responsibility to the hospital. They admit their mistake, I agree with them. |
Dallas Hospital Responds To Criticisms of Ebola Patient's Treatment
LINK
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NickF
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | I totally get why the guy lied about his exposure to get into the US, but i find it really difficult to believe that:
A: he didn't connect his exposure to his symptoms, having been around it and them.
B. He figured that holding back information about his exposure to avoid having the hospital know he had lied would have been more important than treating a disease with an astronomical mortality rate.
"gee, i'm going to hold back details so no one knows i was in a region where there was ebola, i sure hope they still figure out if i have ebola..." |
He had a 103 degree fever at atleast some point during the initial contact, he may have been completely off his head and not know exactly what was happening. |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Ebola |
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| Drifts wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | This Ebola outbreak is getting scary. Over 600 deaths and wide spread infection in the affected areas in Africa. Now on CNN they said they are flying 2 infected Americans to Georgia for treatment. Obama is meeting with some African leaders next week at the White House which may or may not be cancelled. With the air travel these days this could get out of hand. Scary times!! |
I don't think transporting infected Americans will cause an outbreak, more so, Obama meeting African leaders... come on, you do know how Ebola is transmitted? |
I don't think its clear how its really transmitted and to what degree of contact will cause an infection. These last few months have proven that. There is too much ignorance on this disease and the CDC is way to arrogant in their ability to contain it. Hopefully we all wake up before it becomes a pandemic. |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| NickF wrote: | | 24 wrote: | I totally get why the guy lied about his exposure to get into the US, but i find it really difficult to believe that:
A: he didn't connect his exposure to his symptoms, having been around it and them.
B. He figured that holding back information about his exposure to avoid having the hospital know he had lied would have been more important than treating a disease with an astronomical mortality rate.
"gee, i'm going to hold back details so no one knows i was in a region where there was ebola, i sure hope they still figure out if i have ebola..." |
He had a 103 degree fever at atleast some point during the initial contact, he may have been completely off his head and not know exactly what was happening. |
I had a 102 degree temperature once and actually went to school in 7th grade. I made it through about 2 periods before I went to the nurse's office and she freaked out. |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Ebola |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | This Ebola outbreak is getting scary. Over 600 deaths and wide spread infection in the affected areas in Africa. Now on CNN they said they are flying 2 infected Americans to Georgia for treatment. Obama is meeting with some African leaders next week at the White House which may or may not be cancelled. With the air travel these days this could get out of hand. Scary times!! |
I don't think transporting infected Americans will cause an outbreak, more so, Obama meeting African leaders... come on, you do know how Ebola is transmitted? |
I don't think its clear how its really transmitted and to what degree of contact will cause an infection. These last few months have proven that. There is too much ignorance on this disease and the CDC is way to arrogant in their ability to contain it. Hopefully we all wake up before it becomes a pandemic. |
I watched some guy talking about how there is a remote possibility of it going airborne. The chance is very very very small, but that chance slowly grows the more the disease spreads. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32754
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ebola |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | This Ebola outbreak is getting scary. Over 600 deaths and wide spread infection in the affected areas in Africa. Now on CNN they said they are flying 2 infected Americans to Georgia for treatment. Obama is meeting with some African leaders next week at the White House which may or may not be cancelled. With the air travel these days this could get out of hand. Scary times!! |
I don't think transporting infected Americans will cause an outbreak, more so, Obama meeting African leaders... come on, you do know how Ebola is transmitted? |
I don't think its clear how its really transmitted and to what degree of contact will cause an infection. These last few months have proven that. There is too much ignorance on this disease and the CDC is way to arrogant in their ability to contain it. Hopefully we all wake up before it becomes a pandemic. |
I watched some guy talking about how there is a remote possibility of it going airborne. The chance is very very very small, but that chance slowly grows the more the disease spreads. |
The chance is small, but that chance grows exponentially as the disease spreads. The greater the number of active hosts, the greater the reservoir of viruses capable of mutating. |
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NickF
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Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ebola is showing exponential growth and we have done very little to stop that http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/Diseased_Ebola_2014.png/426px-Diseased_Ebola_2014.png , doesn't matter if it becomes airborne, there will soon be very large number of people dead or dying in any case, whatever resources have been thrown into this need to 100x more, if this gets a foothold in asia or south america.. |
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loslakersss
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Where is that dude with the mullet from Walking Dead? He could find a way to fight ebola.  |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Nurses at the Dallas hospital have anonymously said that the guy that died from Ebola was in the waiting room with other people for several hours.
They also said the hospital had no protocols and are angry that the hospital appeared to be blaming the nurse for breaking protocols that didn't exist. Also said that hospital administration gave a lot of resistance when a senior nurse insisted that the guy with Ebola be put into quarantine there immediately.
Last edited by Reflexx on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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C M B
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | Nurses at the Dallas hospital have anonymously said that the side that does from Ebola was in the waiting room with other people for several hours. They also said the hospital had no protocols and are angry that the hospital starts to be blaming the nurse for breaking protocols that didn't exist. Also said that hospital administration have a lot of resistance when a senior nurse insisted that the guy with eBooks be put into quarantine there immediately. |
This is an autocorrect nightmare, reflexx!
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | Nurses at the Dallas hospital have anonymously said that the side that does from Ebola was in the waiting room with other people for several hours. They also said the hospital had no protocols and are angry that the hospital starts to be blaming the nurse for breaking protocols that didn't exist. Also said that hospital administration have a lot of resistance when a senior nurse insisted that the guy with eBooks be put into quarantine there immediately. |
This is an autocorrect nightmare, reflexx! |
LoL. Sorry! Fixed. Quarantine for eBooks probably not a priority. |
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C M B
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm surprised it hasn't spread faster honestly. In the age of air travel, people can travel to different continents in a span of 12 hours. All you need is one person who is undetected to infect everyone. Frankly, they need to start synthesizing that ebola drug that saved the doctor ASAP. |
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Air Apparent
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | I'm surprised it hasn't spread faster honestly. In the age of air travel, people can travel to different continents in a span of 12 hours. All you need is one person who is undetected to infect everyone. Frankly, they need to start synthesizing that ebola drug that saved the doctor ASAP. |
Easier said than done. That experimental drug ZMapp was synthesize from a protein that they had to grow on a mice. Imagine trying to scale up production, it takes a ton of mice and a ton of time. Not to mention the FDA regulations and steps it takes to get the drug approved, clinical trials etc. With all that said, its not even sure fire drug that works, hence the experimental label.
There should have been a sense of urgency years ago to find a vaccine for a disease that has a 50-90% mortality rate.
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angrypuppy
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nickuku
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Going to be an interesting Holiday season.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | I totally get why the guy lied about his exposure to get into the US, but i find it really difficult to believe that:
A: he didn't connect his exposure to his symptoms, having been around it and them.
B. He figured that holding back information about his exposure to avoid having the hospital know he had lied would have been more important than treating a disease with an astronomical mortality rate.
"gee, i'm going to hold back details so no one knows i was in a region where there was ebola, i sure hope they still figure out if i have ebola..." |
You have absolutely no idea how much and to what a great extent patients are willing to lie, even in life threatening situations, to their physicians. It happens every single shift I work. I once had a dude with 23 balloons of heroin in his intestines who had come off of the plane from some African nation and came in with a complaint of diarrhea and not feeling well. Turns out that he had started taking laxatives as soon as he arrived at his hotel room. He was extremely dehydrated and was treated as such. He was doing better and I wrote for him to be discharged. It was a busy night and it took about 45 minutes for the nurse to discharge him. I saw him stumbling down towards the hallway and towards the door and had him brought back into a room. By then he had decreased mental status and pinpoint pupils. I gave him the antidote to opiate poisoning and he became more alert. Then I knew what was going on but he still denied any drugs. I took an XR of his Abdomen and it revealed the heroin bags. If he had been discharged immediately, he would have likely gone back to his hotel room and died there.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
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30,000 children a day die World Wide from diarrheal disease and or starvation.. Ebola won't ever touch that, even in the poorest nations.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | I'm surprised it hasn't spread faster honestly. In the age of air travel, people can travel to different continents in a span of 12 hours. All you need is one person who is undetected to infect everyone. Frankly, they need to start synthesizing that ebola drug that saved the doctor ASAP. |
Kinda tells you a lot about how difficult it is to spread and contract.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Ebola |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | This Ebola outbreak is getting scary. Over 600 deaths and wide spread infection in the affected areas in Africa. Now on CNN they said they are flying 2 infected Americans to Georgia for treatment. Obama is meeting with some African leaders next week at the White House which may or may not be cancelled. With the air travel these days this could get out of hand. Scary times!! |
I don't think transporting infected Americans will cause an outbreak, more so, Obama meeting African leaders... come on, you do know how Ebola is transmitted? |
I don't think its clear how its really transmitted and to what degree of contact will cause an infection. These last few months have proven that. There is too much ignorance on this disease and the CDC is way to arrogant in their ability to contain it. Hopefully we all wake up before it becomes a pandemic. |
I watched some guy talking about how there is a remote possibility of it going airborne. The chance is very very very small, but that chance slowly grows the more the disease spreads. |
The chance is small, but that chance grows exponentially as the disease spreads. The greater the number of active hosts, the greater the reservoir of viruses capable of mutating. |
They would have to mutate to become airborne and then to take hold in the cells of the respiratory tree. It's an incredibly unlikely scenario.
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“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Geez ... anyone still interested in barring flights from Liberia and the infected regions. Glad O is not fundraising now, probably smart to try and stop a mass epidemic 
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe they ought to suspend, temporarily, inbound flights from Africa or any connecting flights that originated in Africa. Or something to that effect. |
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| KobeRe-Loaded wrote: |
Geez ... anyone still interested in barring flights from Liberia and the infected regions. Glad O is not fundraising now, probably smart to try and stop a mass epidemic |
The really alarming statistic shared by the CDC was that over 1,000 people from these countries arrive in the U.S. every week. Given the huge spikes in the number of infected people from these regions getting bigger each month, the odds of a few more Duncans slipping past the screenings increases.
I'm less concerned about the epidemic spreading on a large scale at this time as I am about small pockets of it popping up throughout the country.
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