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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: |
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I do care about FIBA tourneys, and this current team may be one of the weaker ones in the past 4-5 years. No lead dog, unless you consider harden to be it. Davis should be, but he's still easing into that role that was Durant's up until a week ago.
Size is going to hurt though we have such an athletic advantage on the perimeter.
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improper
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| carlosLisboa wrote: | Fair enough.
All I can say is most nations in the world see their basketball NT in a different way. |
That doesn't surprise me, as they don't have NBA teams in nearby cities.
I think that, if the USA wasn't already the best at basketball, we'd see a bit more national pride and hype in Team USA, similar to how we really show out for our team during the soccer World Cup. The difference there is that we're not the best in the world at soccer, so the stakes just seem higher when our team plays.
It's different in basketball. When we lose, it's just a disappointment because we know we should have won. It tends to make national team games less exciting because we're literally always favored. |
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carlosLisboa
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| improper wrote: | | carlosLisboa wrote: | Fair enough.
All I can say is most nations in the world see their basketball NT in a different way. |
That doesn't surprise me, as they don't have NBA teams in nearby cities.
I think that, if the USA wasn't already the best at basketball, we'd see a bit more national pride and hype in Team USA, similar to how we really show out for our team during the soccer World Cup. The difference there is that we're not the best in the world at soccer, so the stakes just seem higher when our team plays.
It's different in basketball. When we lose, it's just a disappointment because we know we should have won. It tends to make national team games less exciting because we're literally always favored. |
True to it, in the old Cold War days, USA x URSS was always a match worth seing.
The breakup of Yugoslavia cut short the strongest nemesis the USA could have.
If a team composed of Radja, Kukoc, Divac, Djordjevic, Danilovic, Bodiroga, Zdovc, Paspalj, Naumoski, Savic, Tabak, could have been together in the 90s...
Petrovi.. if...if...
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DJ Slik
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| lenouveau wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | i for one thought team USA looked horribly thin in the front court. brazil was the 10th ranked team in FIBA and they played them tough for 3 quarters. something happens to anthony davis, team USA is in some trouble. don't get me wrong they would STILL be the favorites to win because talent is talent, but spain has plenty of talent and they've been playing together as a unit for far longer--and their front court is better than team USA's with the Gasol boys by themselves. i think this is as big a banana peel year as we've had in a while. luckily it's not the olympics. |
I saw Brazil's front court (Spliter, Varejao, Nene) as a good test for facing Spain.
Spain's front court is impressive, but their shooters are playing very badly and most of the scoring comes from the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Whithout inspired shooters, team USA just need to pack the paint to win. |
yeah but you gotta admit splitter, varejao, and nene aren't the gasols + ibaka. and as much as i'm not impressed with rubio's offensive game, he is a tremendous upgrade over the brazilian PG who flat out dribbled it off his foot a couple times. leandro barbosa is decent but isn't even a claimed free agent. team USA i think would still be the favorite to beat spain, but i wouldn't be surprised in the least if they lost. |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| lenouveau wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | i for one thought team USA looked horribly thin in the front court. brazil was the 10th ranked team in FIBA and they played them tough for 3 quarters. something happens to anthony davis, team USA is in some trouble. don't get me wrong they would STILL be the favorites to win because talent is talent, but spain has plenty of talent and they've been playing together as a unit for far longer--and their front court is better than team USA's with the Gasol boys by themselves. i think this is as big a banana peel year as we've had in a while. luckily it's not the olympics. |
I saw Brazil's front court (Spliter, Varejao, Nene) as a good test for facing Spain.
Spain's front court is impressive, but their shooters are playing very badly and most of the scoring comes from the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Whithout inspired shooters, team USA just need to pack the paint to win. |
Don't count the back-court of Spain out just yet. They have a couple of weeks left to get their shooting back and shake off the summer rust. This year Team USA is merely one of the favorites. Not the favorite.
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carlosLisboa
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| improper wrote: |
It's different in basketball. When we lose, it's just a disappointment because we know we should have won. It tends to make national team games less exciting because we're literally always favored. |
Tha feeling is what Portuguese feel when we play soccer against Andorra, Liechtenstein and other small teams that play as it their life depend on it, and if we win anything short of 5-0 it is a national disaster at home.
The same would have been felt when we played the US in Brazil, but this time we knew there were more americans attending the game than Portuguese, and we know the american team has really evolved in the last years. So the 2-2 draw had some sweet flavour despite the disaster it meant for us.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I do care about FIBA tourneys, and this current team may be one of the weaker ones in the past 4-5 years. No lead dog, unless you consider harden to be it. Davis should be, but he's still easing into that role that was Durant's up until a week ago.
Size is going to hurt though we have such an athletic advantage on the perimeter. |
FIBA is one of those basketball tournaments NBA stars tend to turn down. Just because it doesn't have the media exposure or prestige of the Olympics. I don't think Kobe has ever played in a FIBA tournament. The 1998 one was during the lockout, he turned down invites in 2002, 2006, and 2010 as well. |
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voylash
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I do care about FIBA tourneys, and this current team may be one of the weaker ones in the past 4-5 years. No lead dog, unless you consider harden to be it. Davis should be, but he's still easing into that role that was Durant's up until a week ago.
Size is going to hurt though we have such an athletic advantage on the perimeter. |
FIBA is one of those basketball tournaments NBA stars tend to turn down. Just because it doesn't have the media exposure or prestige of the Olympics. I don't think Kobe has ever played in a FIBA tournament. The 1998 one was during the lockout, he turned down invites in 2002, 2006, and 2010 as well. |
He didn't turn down 2006 - he was injured. He was going to play in that tournament. If I recall correctly Odom was also supposed to be on that team. |
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improper
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| carlosLisboa wrote: | | improper wrote: |
It's different in basketball. When we lose, it's just a disappointment because we know we should have won. It tends to make national team games less exciting because we're literally always favored. |
Tha feeling is what Portuguese feel when we play soccer against Andorra, Liechtenstein and other small teams that play as it their life depend on it, and if we win anything short of 5-0 it is a national disaster at home.
The same would have been felt when we played the US in Brazil, but this time we knew there were more americans attending the game than Portuguese, and we know the american team has really evolved in the last years. So the 2-2 draw had some sweet flavour despite the disaster it meant for us. |
Yup, and that's why we tend to get so much more into the FIFA World Cup than the FIBA one despite the fact that basketball dwarfs soccer in popularity in the states. The stakes are just higher for us because we don't have that history of dominance, and thus every game takes on a higher meaning.
It's just hard to care about the basketball World Cup in a similar manner because of how good our teams have been, and how we know that the majority of the best basketball players in the world are American. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: | | lenouveau wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | i for one thought team USA looked horribly thin in the front court. brazil was the 10th ranked team in FIBA and they played them tough for 3 quarters. something happens to anthony davis, team USA is in some trouble. don't get me wrong they would STILL be the favorites to win because talent is talent, but spain has plenty of talent and they've been playing together as a unit for far longer--and their front court is better than team USA's with the Gasol boys by themselves. i think this is as big a banana peel year as we've had in a while. luckily it's not the olympics. |
I saw Brazil's front court (Spliter, Varejao, Nene) as a good test for facing Spain.
Spain's front court is impressive, but their shooters are playing very badly and most of the scoring comes from the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Whithout inspired shooters, team USA just need to pack the paint to win. |
Don't count the back-court of Spain out just yet. They have a couple of weeks left to get their shooting back and shake off the summer rust. This year Team USA is merely one of the favorites. Not the favorite. |
It's a one off game, if the US shoots badly or Spain's back court shoots well, Spain will win. Doesn't help that the FIBA ball is supposedly pretty bad to shoot. |
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carlosLisboa
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | s_habe wrote: | | lenouveau wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | i for one thought team USA looked horribly thin in the front court. brazil was the 10th ranked team in FIBA and they played them tough for 3 quarters. something happens to anthony davis, team USA is in some trouble. don't get me wrong they would STILL be the favorites to win because talent is talent, but spain has plenty of talent and they've been playing together as a unit for far longer--and their front court is better than team USA's with the Gasol boys by themselves. i think this is as big a banana peel year as we've had in a while. luckily it's not the olympics. |
I saw Brazil's front court (Spliter, Varejao, Nene) as a good test for facing Spain.
Spain's front court is impressive, but their shooters are playing very badly and most of the scoring comes from the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Whithout inspired shooters, team USA just need to pack the paint to win. |
Don't count the back-court of Spain out just yet. They have a couple of weeks left to get their shooting back and shake off the summer rust. This year Team USA is merely one of the favorites. Not the favorite. |
It's a one off game, if the US shoots badly or Spain's back court shoots well, Spain will win. Doesn't help that the FIBA ball is supposedly pretty bad to shoot. |
Spain has the same old team, and a (IMHO) a really crap coach, Juan Orenga. They need new blood, players who have not won anything and are hungry to take it all. They were at times apathetic in the Euro last year.
Something the US has managed to bring along every time. "An old fat crocodile is not hungry anymore".
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Steve007
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Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| s_habe wrote: | | lenouveau wrote: | | DJ Slik wrote: | | i for one thought team USA looked horribly thin in the front court. brazil was the 10th ranked team in FIBA and they played them tough for 3 quarters. something happens to anthony davis, team USA is in some trouble. don't get me wrong they would STILL be the favorites to win because talent is talent, but spain has plenty of talent and they've been playing together as a unit for far longer--and their front court is better than team USA's with the Gasol boys by themselves. i think this is as big a banana peel year as we've had in a while. luckily it's not the olympics. |
I saw Brazil's front court (Spliter, Varejao, Nene) as a good test for facing Spain.
Spain's front court is impressive, but their shooters are playing very badly and most of the scoring comes from the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Whithout inspired shooters, team USA just need to pack the paint to win. |
Don't count the back-court of Spain out just yet. They have a couple of weeks left to get their shooting back and shake off the summer rust. This year Team USA is merely one of the favorites. Not the favorite. |
What? We are the favorite. You make it sound like a team like Argentina has just as good of a chance. Have you seen the other rosters besides Spain? I think the Lakers roster looks much scarier. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| improper wrote: | | carlosLisboa wrote: | Fair enough.
All I can say is most nations in the world see their basketball NT in a different way. |
That doesn't surprise me, as they don't have NBA teams in nearby cities.
I think that, if the USA wasn't already the best at basketball, we'd see a bit more national pride and hype in Team USA, similar to how we really show out for our team during the soccer World Cup. The difference there is that we're not the best in the world at soccer, so the stakes just seem higher when our team plays.
It's different in basketball. When we lose, it's just a disappointment because we know we should have won. It tends to make national team games less exciting because we're literally always favored. |
I think the difference is the World Cup in soccer is much bigger than anything international basketball has to offer. Is there anything bigger than the World Cup in soccer? In basketball, international competitions aren't the most important event. It's the NBA Finals. Nobody argues that MJ is the best because he won a gold medal. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| improper wrote: | | carlosLisboa wrote: | | improper wrote: |
It's different in basketball. When we lose, it's just a disappointment because we know we should have won. It tends to make national team games less exciting because we're literally always favored. |
Tha feeling is what Portuguese feel when we play soccer against Andorra, Liechtenstein and other small teams that play as it their life depend on it, and if we win anything short of 5-0 it is a national disaster at home.
The same would have been felt when we played the US in Brazil, but this time we knew there were more americans attending the game than Portuguese, and we know the american team has really evolved in the last years. So the 2-2 draw had some sweet flavour despite the disaster it meant for us. |
Yup, and that's why we tend to get so much more into the FIFA World Cup than the FIBA one despite the fact that basketball dwarfs soccer in popularity in the states. The stakes are just higher for us because we don't have that history of dominance, and thus every game takes on a higher meaning.
It's just hard to care about the basketball World Cup in a similar manner because of how good our teams have been, and how we know that the majority of the best basketball players in the world are American. |
I think ESPN only recently got rights to the FIBA basketball tournament....I remember they used to show it on NBA TV or something. It wasn't exactly a big tournament where lots of networks are fighting over the rights. |
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carlosLisboa
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: |
I think the difference is the World Cup in soccer is much bigger than anything international basketball has to offer. Is there anything bigger than the World Cup in soccer?
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This raises a key point: event competition. In soccer the Olympics suck, because only under 23 year old players (plus 3 older) qualify to play. I don't even bother watching it, even if Portugal plays. The World Cup takes all the spotlight, par with the Euro championship (better football played than the WC, since hardly any bad teams qualify, and competition is always with your "neighbour").
Concerning international basketball the Olympics are the centre stage, of course.
| Quote: |
Nobody argues that MJ is the best because he won a gold medal. |
The Dream Team was the best because they trashed every legend euro team in the Olympics. They were the best ever because they beat the best ever team of Croatia, Lithuania and some others. The roster was the best ever, but what people remember is Magic behind the back to MJ's dunk and other all-star plays against professional teams that were really trying to do something...
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| carlosLisboa wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: |
I think the difference is the World Cup in soccer is much bigger than anything international basketball has to offer. Is there anything bigger than the World Cup in soccer?
|
This raises a key point: event competition. In soccer the Olympics suck, because only under 23 year old players (plus 3 older) qualify to play. I don't even bother watching it, even if Portugal plays. The World Cup takes all the spotlight, par with the Euro championship (better football played than the WC, since hardly any bad teams qualify, and competition is always with your "neighbour").
Concerning international basketball the Olympics are the centre stage, of course.
| Quote: |
Nobody argues that MJ is the best because he won a gold medal. |
The Dream Team was the best because they trashed every legend euro team in the Olympics. They were the best ever because they beat the best ever team of Croatia, Lithuania and some others. The roster was the best ever, but what people remember is Magic behind the back to MJ's dunk and other all-star plays against professional teams that were really trying to do something... |
The world cup was the incumbent for soccer due to the amateurism requirements at the Olympics though, however FIFA was always wary of the pull the olympics could have, hence the U23 rules when the restrictions softened.
The Olympics in essence became the incumbent for basketball because the Dream Team made it so, it's a lot harder to reverse what's already there. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Twenty years from now, we might look at this differently. Basketball is growing in popularity worldwide. It might grow into a truly major sport around the world. As of today, however, it isn't. It may be the second biggest team sport worldwide, but the gap is enormous. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Twenty years from now, we might look at this differently. Basketball is growing in popularity worldwide. It might grow into a truly major sport around the world. As of today, however, it isn't. It may be the second biggest team sport worldwide, but the gap is enormous. |
Technically cricket is, due to its almost religious stature in India, basketball's biggest hindrance is that it isn't really the favorite sport in any country. |
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carlosLisboa
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Twenty years from now, we might look at this differently. Basketball is growing in popularity worldwide. It might grow into a truly major sport around the world. As of today, however, it isn't. It may be the second biggest team sport worldwide, but the gap is enormous. |
Technically cricket is, due to its almost religious stature in India, basketball's biggest hindrance is that it isn't really the favorite sport in any country. |
Maybe Lithuania 
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | carlosLisboa wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: |
I think the difference is the World Cup in soccer is much bigger than anything international basketball has to offer. Is there anything bigger than the World Cup in soccer?
|
This raises a key point: event competition. In soccer the Olympics suck, because only under 23 year old players (plus 3 older) qualify to play. I don't even bother watching it, even if Portugal plays. The World Cup takes all the spotlight, par with the Euro championship (better football played than the WC, since hardly any bad teams qualify, and competition is always with your "neighbour").
Concerning international basketball the Olympics are the centre stage, of course.
| Quote: |
Nobody argues that MJ is the best because he won a gold medal. |
The Dream Team was the best because they trashed every legend euro team in the Olympics. They were the best ever because they beat the best ever team of Croatia, Lithuania and some others. The roster was the best ever, but what people remember is Magic behind the back to MJ's dunk and other all-star plays against professional teams that were really trying to do something... |
The world cup was the incumbent for soccer due to the amateurism requirements at the Olympics though, however FIFA was always wary of the pull the olympics could have, hence the U23 rules when the restrictions softened.
The Olympics in essence became the incumbent for basketball because the Dream Team made it so, it's a lot harder to reverse what's already there. |
FIFA was smart enough to create their own separate football tournament in the early days so that they could control the destiny of the sport versus letting the IOC control it. With their own separate history, they were able to create their own prestige and didn't need the Olympics to achieve this. The Olympic soccer tournament is probably way down the ladder when it comes to achievements a soccer player wants in their career. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Has the rest of the world improved much in the last decade? When I look at the rosters for teams like Spain and Argentina they don't look any better, and many of the best players are the same players from the past. When I look at Argentina, I don't feel like much has changed since 2004. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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This event reminds me of The World Baseball Classic which we haven't done well at despite having one of the better rosters each time. I forgot that the latest one happened last year until I looked it up. The US team finished with a 3-3 record which was good for 6th place. In 2009 the US was 4-4. In 2006 the US was 3-3. Overall that's a 10-10 record for the US team in those 3 events.
Those results are horrible, but has that motivated more major league stars to play for the US? I don't think it has. |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | This event reminds me of The World Baseball Classic which we haven't done well at despite having one of the better rosters each time. I forgot that the latest one happened last year until I looked it up. The US team finished with a 3-3 record which was good for 6th place. In 2009 the US was 4-4. In 2006 the US was 3-3. Overall that's a 10-10 record for the US team in those 3 events.
Those results are horrible, but has that motivated more major league stars to play for the US? I don't think it has. |
The FIBA championships are an afterthought for Team USA. We never send our best players to the tournament because it doesn't rank high in terms of accomplishments that NBA players see as something they need to accomplish in their careers. |
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The_Dynasty24
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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For some reason Damien Lillard just doesn't look as effective the few times I've seen him on this year's team. I honestly thought that Kyrie would get cut instead of him but Kyrie is performing much better and it seems his game translates better to the international stage. Kyrie's defense even looks better than Lillards  |
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Telleris
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Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | carlosLisboa wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: |
I think the difference is the World Cup in soccer is much bigger than anything international basketball has to offer. Is there anything bigger than the World Cup in soccer?
|
This raises a key point: event competition. In soccer the Olympics suck, because only under 23 year old players (plus 3 older) qualify to play. I don't even bother watching it, even if Portugal plays. The World Cup takes all the spotlight, par with the Euro championship (better football played than the WC, since hardly any bad teams qualify, and competition is always with your "neighbour").
Concerning international basketball the Olympics are the centre stage, of course.
| Quote: |
Nobody argues that MJ is the best because he won a gold medal. |
The Dream Team was the best because they trashed every legend euro team in the Olympics. They were the best ever because they beat the best ever team of Croatia, Lithuania and some others. The roster was the best ever, but what people remember is Magic behind the back to MJ's dunk and other all-star plays against professional teams that were really trying to do something... |
The world cup was the incumbent for soccer due to the amateurism requirements at the Olympics though, however FIFA was always wary of the pull the olympics could have, hence the U23 rules when the restrictions softened.
The Olympics in essence became the incumbent for basketball because the Dream Team made it so, it's a lot harder to reverse what's already there. |
FIFA was smart enough to create their own separate football tournament in the early days so that they could control the destiny of the sport versus letting the IOC control it. With their own separate history, they were able to create their own prestige and didn't need the Olympics to achieve this. The Olympic soccer tournament is probably way down the ladder when it comes to achievements a soccer player wants in their career. |
It wasn't forward thinking, it's that the olympics required you to be amateur, if they didn't have that restriction, the olympics would have become the gold standard. |
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