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AirShooter
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 Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Sorry guys.
I didn't envision this turning into a "Hate D'antoni" thread.
Was just wondering if you guys agreed with Vitti or not.
It seems difficult to correlate, IMO. Too many instances of simple accidents, i.e. Andrew Bynum being taken out by his own teammates twice.
I don't recall the Pho Suns having more injuries than normal, but I didn't check. But then again, did Nash have those back problems before Pho? I don't remember and am too lazy to check  |
I don't agree with Vitti.
It's not the pace that causes the injuries. It's the mismanagement of minutes.
Pop runs a fast pace Spurs team with old guys like Duncan and Ginobili.
D'Antoni fails to manage his player's minutes.
It's not the pace that causes injuries, but the mismanagement of minutes. So Vitti is wrong. |
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epak
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Strong points guys.
I'm tending to agree with the aspect that Coach Mike isn't a great minutes manager (playing guys too many minutes). I believe this can definitely help attribute to injury.
1. It gives guys more opportunity to get injured
2. It doesn't allow your body to recuperate
I can see that. |
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NomisR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| AirShooter wrote: | | epak wrote: | Sorry guys.
I didn't envision this turning into a "Hate D'antoni" thread.
Was just wondering if you guys agreed with Vitti or not.
It seems difficult to correlate, IMO. Too many instances of simple accidents, i.e. Andrew Bynum being taken out by his own teammates twice.
I don't recall the Pho Suns having more injuries than normal, but I didn't check. But then again, did Nash have those back problems before Pho? I don't remember and am too lazy to check |
I don't agree with Vitti.
It's not the pace that causes the injuries. It's the mismanagement of minutes.
Pop runs a fast pace Spurs team with old guys like Duncan and Ginobili.
D'Antoni fails to manage his player's minutes.
It's not the pace that causes injuries, but the mismanagement of minutes. So Vitti is wrong. |
Yeah, i think it's more the mins than the pace. But then again.. look at Pau last year, he was playing the least amount of mins he's had in a long time while putting up career average numbers.
So maybe it's not entirely that either. And if you look at Kobe's numbers, even during Phil's days during the most recent championship run, he was playing 36-38 min, as was Pau. I think it's basically everything compounding together along with age more than anything.
And I remember an ESPN article showing that pace and injury correlation isn't true. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Minutes played, age, and mileage play a much bigger role in the injuries than pace imo. Otherwise the Showtime Lakers would've been injury plagued for the entire decade.
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Voices
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Minutes played, age, and mileage play a much bigger role in the injuries than pace imo. Otherwise the Showtime Lakers would've been injury plagued for the entire decade. |
I agree with your post for the most part, where I disagree, even showtime did not play with the pace of MDA coached teams. Showtime played the game on both ends of the court, they ran off their defense, MDA could care less about defense.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Don't agree.
See Showtime Lakers and Phoenix Suns.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| I'd also surmise that a high paced jump shooting team would generally experience fewer injuries than a halfcourt team that consistently attacks the paint. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Driving faster doesn't increase the risk of accidents.
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Lakers#1Team
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:12 am Post subject: |
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One thing that can't be disputed about last year is how D'antoni kept trying new starting lineups which kept readjusting players minutes. Even with the constant injuries he could have stuck to a more consistent rotation and minute distribution.
Kaman would have several DNP's and all of a sudden have a breakout 30 minute game. It seemed that way for most of the players. Sounds like a plausible way for bodies to all of a sudden break down. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| golaker wrote: | | Driving faster doesn't increase the risk of accidents. |
Actually driving both faster and slower than the average range increases accident risk, so it's the deviation from the norm that increases the risk. But excessive speed significantly increases risk of fatality though.
Relative to the basketball court, a higher speed at point of collision increases the risk of injury due to physical laws of mass when two objects collide. Increasing pace also increases opportunity for collision, and most injuries result from collisions.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Couldn't a statistical analysis of this be done? |
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ch3cky0selff00
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Sorry guys.
I didn't envision this turning into a "Hate D'antoni" thread.
Was just wondering if you guys agreed with Vitti or not.
It seems difficult to correlate, IMO. Too many instances of simple accidents, i.e. Andrew Bynum being taken out by his own teammates twice.
I don't recall the Pho Suns having more injuries than normal, but I didn't check. But then again, did Nash have those back problems before Pho? I don't remember and am too lazy to check |
Lol. You can't be serious. You didn't envision this turning into a D'Antoni thread? Before I even clicked on the thread I knew what it was about or what it was going to turn into.
I don't buy it though. I remember reading that players actually prefer to play a faster style of basketball as its easier on the body.
With that said -- I can envision Byron Scott playing a slower pace of basketball.. having a few players get hurt and then people here saying the slower pace of basketball is too hard on the players. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Great, yet another confirmation that hiring Mike D'Antoni was one of the worst decisions ever in Lakers history. |
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Xtreme
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| It's the minutes , MDA rides his players to the ground |
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | Don't agree.
See Showtime Lakers and Phoenix Suns. |
end of thread.
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dvdrdiscs
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Gary Vitti believe pace of play influences injuries |
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| epak wrote: | I'm listening to ESPN 710's "Mason and Ireland." Don't worry, this isn't from one of those morons. But Mike Trudell is on.
He's saying that Gary Vitti believes that the style of play has influenced the influx of injuries. He's not blaming Mike D'antoni specifically, but the style does matter. They point to the 2 peat years while the team ran the slower paced triangle, and the number of injuries for our smalls were far less.
Year: Wing player injury
2007-08: Ariza late in the season
2008-09: Farmar a few games
2009-10: Sasha a few games
2010-11: Barnes
2011-12: -
2012-13: Nash, Kobe late in the season
2013-14: Young, Farmar, Henry, Blake, Nash, Kobe
Tough to say.
Farmar, Henry and Nash have a history of injuries.
And Kobe is older.
What do you guys think? Does pace increase injury? |
I agree with Vitti. People who say the two years with MDA were a fluke are naive. The guy's system is fast paced and he plays the same short rotations. Fast pace + bigger minutes = injuries. Two years of some of the worst injuries in a long time is not bad luck. It's poor coaching. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | I'd also surmise that a high paced jump shooting team would generally experience fewer injuries than a halfcourt team that consistently attacks the paint. |
The Lakers were a high paced jump shooting team last year.
Most injuries in a Laker season ever.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | Couldn't a statistical analysis of this be done? |
Need to 360* GPS the uniforms, cover distances, max speed, quickness in short distance, leaping, etc.
The technology is out there in NCAA football. I forgot what program is using it. Apparently, it's working wonders. Treatment is more dynamic though.
I would actually argue that FASTER pace reduces injuries.
Why?
Less likely to come across an obstacle while attacking the basket. Obstacle? The opposing team. Sometimes your own teammates.
Fast pace teams tend to have players spread all over the court in transition situations. This minimizes contact between opponents.
Chances are, when a team trains for that level of conditioning, they are also more prepared to withstand issues with running.
See Steve Nash post prime, until he hit the Lakers.
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l4kerz
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| oliverginob wrote: | | Id blame it on minutes which D'Antoni doesn't manage well. you could expect to play anywhere between 4 seconds and 40 minutes as a role player. |
+1. D'Antoni doesn't know how to manage players and make use of the bench. Kobe was playing a lot of minutes (38+/game) and all D'Antoni said was, "He won't let me take him out of the game." In NY, Lin only got a chance when Shumpert got injured and there were no other options. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| oliverginob wrote: | | Id blame it on minutes which D'Antoni doesn't manage well. you could expect to play anywhere between 4 seconds and 40 minutes as a role player. |
If a guy is used to playing 4 seconds a game and he's unfit to be called on when they need him for 40 minutes, that's on him. These guys play basketball for a living. The last guy on the bench should be just as conditioned and have just as much endurance as the starter who averages 43 minutes a game. That's what being a professional athlete is all about.
I keep hearing all of this talk about pace but as others have said, the fast pace is easier for basketball players. That's all we do at the gym. If you're playing half court, you have more bodying underneath and more bodies in one confined area. A lot easier to come down on someone or catch an elbow or whatever. In a fast paced game, basketball is just pure cardio and I never see anyone get hurt (knock on wood)
If Vitti doesn't like the pace they play at, why not tell the coach? Or research some training techniques that will make guys more resilient to increased cardio? That's his job right? |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| l4kerz wrote: | | oliverginob wrote: | | Id blame it on minutes which D'Antoni doesn't manage well. you could expect to play anywhere between 4 seconds and 40 minutes as a role player. |
+1. D'Antoni doesn't know how to manage players and make use of the bench. Kobe was playing a lot of minutes (38+/game) and all D'Antoni said was, "He won't let me take him out of the game." In NY, Lin only got a chance when Shumpert got injured and there were no other options. |
Kobe is the only player that was really playing a lot of minutes under D'Antoni. Part of that was necessity and the other part was that Kobe admittedly said he wasn't willing to come out. I can't think of any other injuries the last 2 years that could be blamed on the player having some dangerous workload. The other guys were playing 30 or so minutes a game or fewer. |
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | oliverginob wrote: | | Id blame it on minutes which D'Antoni doesn't manage well. you could expect to play anywhere between 4 seconds and 40 minutes as a role player. |
If a guy is used to playing 4 seconds a game and he's unfit to be called on when they need him for 40 minutes, that's on him. These guys play basketball for a living. The last guy on the bench should be just as conditioned and have just as much endurance as the starter who averages 43 minutes a game. That's what being a professional athlete is all about.
I keep hearing all of this talk about pace but as others have said, the fast pace is easier for basketball players. That's all we do at the gym. If you're playing half court, you have more bodying underneath and more bodies in one confined area. A lot easier to come down on someone or catch an elbow or whatever. In a fast paced game, basketball is just pure cardio and I never see anyone get hurt (knock on wood)
If Vitti doesn't like the pace they play at, why not tell the coach? Or research some training techniques that will make guys more resilient to increased cardio? That's his job right? |
Actually his job is to give the drawing board to the coach as well as keep track of who the opposing team is subbing in
I'm serious. It was on backstage lakers.
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rst08tierney
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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can we simply not blame the training staff in this thread?
did we forget Nash was doing weighted squats on a fracture under staff supervision?
Like any sport its all about recovery and I honestly think with all the young blood on the team these guys were not shutting it down during off time. The body needs SLEEP to recover properly. Its the training staffs job to pound the basics into the team or self destructions going to happen |
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ReaListik
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Don't agree.
See Showtime Lakers and Phoenix Suns. |
end of thread. |
Pretty...much
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epak
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ReaListik wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Don't agree.
See Showtime Lakers and Phoenix Suns. |
end of thread. |
Pretty...much |
I think what came out of this thread is that people are more inclined to blame the mismanagement of minutes played. As well as certain players playing more than they ever have before in their careers.
So I'm appreciative of the POVs provided. |
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