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Sccit
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 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | looks like you're clearly arguing against the fact that he will improve right here:
| ringfinger wrote: |
You're just saying there's a good chance he improves because he's a Laker and that's what you want. You haven't given anyone any specific basketball reasons -- you just keep saying he had his best year last year. So what, his best year was god awful for a lottery pick. I'm the tallest member of family but that doesn't make me tall. I'm 5'9". |
And I don't know if he will be a rising star or not .. The potential is there, but there's no way to tell how a player will improve from season to season. Is there a chance? Yea.. But there's no telling for now. What I can tell you is that he's young enough to where his game should still be developing on a daily basis. |
And that's been my point to you from the very beginning. His game SHOULD be developing on a daily basis but it is not. His game has remained the same since he entered the league and that's why I don't think he will "break out".
I would expect Xavier to do what he's always done. Shoot around 40%, score around 10 points per game, and shoot poorly from the free throw line. He hasn't shown that he's capable of doing much more than that. |
Why do u keep saying he's a 40% shooter when he shot a career best 42% last season?.. That means if he continues growing at that rate he'll be a 44%
shooter next season. You keep acting like it's over for him when it's far from the truth. Just own up to your pessimism and we can keep it moving. |
I keep saying 40% because he's a career 40.8% shooter who always shoots around that mark. Some seasons he's been slightly below that and some seasons he's been slightly above that.
In his BEST season ever, he shot 41.1 eFG% on jumpers which is absolutely atrocious by the way. That's even worse than Jordan Hill (.417 eFG).
Xavier was the worst jump shooter of any Laker rotation player last year with the lone exception being a center: Robert Sacre. Imagine that. On jump shots, Xavier could only beat a center. In his best season. In an MDA offense ideally suited for a guard. The worst shooter is a guy playing SHOOTING guard? That isn't good. That would be like a point guard being the worst player at distributing the ball.
His best season ever has him sitting among the worst jump shot eFG% in the entire league. It's going to be hard for us to come to a consensus when I'm bringing history and data while you're bringing pom poms. |
So now u ignore that he shot a career best 42% from the field last season and jump to something else negative that u can find on him......good job. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Dude, give it up already. You said there is only bust or rising star and no in between.
So i picked bust and you're picking in between.
#pompomsftw |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Dude, give it up already. You said there is only bust or rising star and no in between.
So i picked bust and you're picking in between.
#pompomsftw |
Dont switch up your stance, you kept lying and saying Xavier has never improved and shot 40% from the field every year, when he clearly made strides last year and shot 42%... U initially acted like he had a slim chance of getting better. When that argument was no longer in your favor, you quickly jumped to "oh he has a good chance of getting better, but he's not a rising star"... Well I don't really think he's shown that he's a rising star, so you're using a strawman argument. I do think he'll keep getting better, and rising star mighta been putting extra on it, but my point of this thread was not to point these players out as rising stars, but rather that they're developing players who were lottery picks and still have their worth to prove. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sccit wrote: |
Dont switch up your stance, you kept lying and saying Xavier has never improved and shot 40% from the field every year, when he clearly made strides last year and shot 42%... U initially acted like he had a slim chance of getting better. When that argument was no longer in your favor, you quickly jumped to "oh he has a good chance of getting better, but he's not a rising star"... Well I don't really think he's shown that he's a rising star, so you're using a strawman argument. I do think he'll keep getting better, and rising star mighta been putting extra on it, but my point of this thread was not to point these players out as rising stars, but rather that they're developing players who were lottery picks and still have their worth to prove. |
How many games are you expecting Kobe to play this season and what will be the distribution of minutes for Kobe, Nick and X? |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe I got right in the 65-75 range .. Kobe 32 mpg Swaggy 28 mpg Xavier 25 mpg with all three alternating between SG and SF |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Dude, give it up already. You said there is only bust or rising star and no in between.
So i picked bust and you're picking in between.
#pompomsftw |
Dont switch up your stance, you kept lying and saying Xavier has never improved and shot 40% from the field every year, when he clearly made strides last year and shot 42%... U initially acted like he had a slim chance of getting better. When that argument was no longer in your favor, you quickly jumped to "oh he has a good chance of getting better, but he's not a rising star"... Well I don't really think he's shown that he's a rising star, so you're using a strawman argument. I do think he'll keep getting better, and rising star mighta been putting extra on it, but my point of this thread was not to point these players out as rising stars, but rather that they're developing players who were lottery picks and still have their worth to prove. |
"U"? Really? *sigh*. Your point was whether or not X would live up to their lottery selection wasn't it?
| Sccit wrote: | | This is about players who haven't lived up to their draft position, nothing more nothing less. |
My point hasn't changed -- X hasn't shown any improvement to warrant a conclusion that he will live up to his draft position. He's had 4 seasons, multiple teams and multiple coaches to do so and has failed each time. Can we find a common ground here and at least agree he has failed to meet expectations every season he's ever played? |
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30
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: |
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I see ringfinger is derailing another thread with a one on one debate.  |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| 30 wrote: | | I see ringfinger is derailing another thread with a one on one debate. |
Takes two to tango my friend.
What is your take on this thread topic? |
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30
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | I see ringfinger is derailing another thread with a one on one debate. |
Takes two to tango my friend.
What is your take on this thread topic? |
In regards to your debate with Sccit, I think Xavier Henry has not shown enough to be considered a rising star, but I still think he has potential to improve (He is only 23) and be a nice role-player (Still not living up to his selection).
In regards to the thread topic, I think the question is really unnecessary. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| 30 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | I see ringfinger is derailing another thread with a one on one debate. |
Takes two to tango my friend.
What is your take on this thread topic? |
In regards to your debate with Sccit, I think Xavier Henry has not shown enough to be considered a rising star, but I still think he has potential to improve and be a nice role-player (Still not living up to his selection).
In regards to the thread topic, I think the question is really unnecessary. |
I'd agree that a "nice role player" is probably where I can see X's upside. I don't see him as much more than that. If he has more than that, he certainly hasn't shown it. I'm not sure "nice role player" is what teams are expecting from a lottery pick though. But you never know as some teams have pretty low standards. |
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30
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 30 wrote: | | I see ringfinger is derailing another thread with a one on one debate. |
Takes two to tango my friend.
What is your take on this thread topic? |
In regards to your debate with Sccit, I think Xavier Henry has not shown enough to be considered a rising star, but I still think he has potential to improve and be a nice role-player (Still not living up to his selection).
In regards to the thread topic, I think the question is really unnecessary. |
I'd agree that a "nice role player" is probably where I can see X's upside. I don't see him as much more than that. If he has more than that, he certainly hasn't shown it. I'm not sure "nice role player" is what teams are expecting from a lottery pick though. But you never know as some teams have pretty low standards. |
Exactly. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Sccit wrote: | | Kobe I got right in the 65-75 range .. Kobe 32 mpg Swaggy 28 mpg Xavier 25 mpg with all three alternating between SG and SF |
What about Wes? |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Dude, give it up already. You said there is only bust or rising star and no in between.
So i picked bust and you're picking in between.
#pompomsftw |
Dont switch up your stance, you kept lying and saying Xavier has never improved and shot 40% from the field every year, when he clearly made strides last year and shot 42%... U initially acted like he had a slim chance of getting better. When that argument was no longer in your favor, you quickly jumped to "oh he has a good chance of getting better, but he's not a rising star"... Well I don't really think he's shown that he's a rising star, so you're using a strawman argument. I do think he'll keep getting better, and rising star mighta been putting extra on it, but my point of this thread was not to point these players out as rising stars, but rather that they're developing players who were lottery picks and still have their worth to prove. |
"U"? Really? *sigh*. Your point was whether or not X would live up to their lottery selection wasn't it?
| Sccit wrote: | | This is about players who haven't lived up to their draft position, nothing more nothing less. |
My point hasn't changed -- X hasn't shown any improvement to warrant a conclusion that he will live up to his draft position. He's had 4 seasons, multiple teams and multiple coaches to do so and has failed each time. Can we find a common ground here and at least agree he has failed to meet expectations every season he's ever played? |
soundin pretty pretentious there, bud...do u also drive a prius and speak with your eyes closed? seriously, just stop. my underlying point was that we should expect more from X and that it wont be a huge surprise to watch him take another step forward this season...at this point, you're just grasping at straws, looking for a way to come out on top, which is not what this is about. |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | Kobe I got right in the 65-75 range .. Kobe 32 mpg Swaggy 28 mpg Xavier 25 mpg with all three alternating between SG and SF |
What about Wes? |
i got wes in the 25 mpg range as well, i guess depending on match-ups....some nights we'll see more wes, and some nights we'll see more xavier. but nick and kobe's minutes will probably remain the same on a nightly basis. |
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qiantom
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | Kobe I got right in the 65-75 range .. Kobe 32 mpg Swaggy 28 mpg Xavier 25 mpg with all three alternating between SG and SF |
What about Wes? |
i got wes in the 25 mpg range as well, i guess depending on match-ups....some nights we'll see more wes, and some nights we'll see more xavier. but nick and kobe's minutes will probably remain the same on a nightly basis. |
They do not add up. There are only so many minutes to distribute. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Sccit wrote: | | my underlying point was that we should expect more from X and that it wont be a huge surprise to watch him take another step forward this season... |
| Sccit wrote: | | This is about players who haven't lived up to their draft position, nothing more nothing less. |
| Sccit wrote: | | You ever heard of players breaking out? |
Let's just leave at this. I don't think X will ever live up to his draft position. Hasn't shown me enough in the 4 seasons he's been in the pros. Same with Wes. I know you don't agree ....
... bUt U R able 2 have UR own onion on this 1 my brohamburglar. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| qiantom wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | Kobe I got right in the 65-75 range .. Kobe 32 mpg Swaggy 28 mpg Xavier 25 mpg with all three alternating between SG and SF |
What about Wes? |
i got wes in the 25 mpg range as well, i guess depending on match-ups....some nights we'll see more wes, and some nights we'll see more xavier. but nick and kobe's minutes will probably remain the same on a nightly basis. |
They do not add up. There are only so many minutes to distribute. |
If we hot potato everyone throughout every position at one point or another, everyone can just average like 3 mins per game. It's like ... an NBA commune kind of thing. |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | my underlying point was that we should expect more from X and that it wont be a huge surprise to watch him take another step forward this season... |
| Sccit wrote: | | This is about players who haven't lived up to their draft position, nothing more nothing less. |
| Sccit wrote: | | You ever heard of players breaking out? |
Let's just leave at this. I don't think X will ever live up to his draft position. Hasn't shown me enough in the 4 seasons he's been in the pros. Same with Wes. I know you don't agree ....
... bUt U R able 2 have UR own onion on this 1 my brohamburglar. |
was this supposed to prove something, other than the fact that you're a pretentious grammar-nazi?
again, you're missing the point...i don't disagree that wes and X haven't shown enough. if i did, i woulda never made this thread now, would i? think before u post, jack. |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| qiantom wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | Kobe I got right in the 65-75 range .. Kobe 32 mpg Swaggy 28 mpg Xavier 25 mpg with all three alternating between SG and SF |
What about Wes? |
i got wes in the 25 mpg range as well, i guess depending on match-ups....some nights we'll see more wes, and some nights we'll see more xavier. but nick and kobe's minutes will probably remain the same on a nightly basis. |
They do not add up. There are only so many minutes to distribute. |
heres a breakdown
kobe- 20 minutes at sg, 12 minutes at sf
xavier- 15 minutes at sg, 10 minutes at sf
nick- 13 minutes at sg, 15 minutes at sf
wes- 11 minutes at sf, 14 minutes at pf
very doable. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | my underlying point was that we should expect more from X and that it wont be a huge surprise to watch him take another step forward this season... |
| Sccit wrote: | | This is about players who haven't lived up to their draft position, nothing more nothing less. |
| Sccit wrote: | | You ever heard of players breaking out? |
Let's just leave at this. I don't think X will ever live up to his draft position. Hasn't shown me enough in the 4 seasons he's been in the pros. Same with Wes. I know you don't agree ....
... bUt U R able 2 have UR own onion on this 1 my brohamburglar. |
was this supposed to prove something, other than the fact that you're a pretentious grammar-nazi?
again, you're missing the point...i don't disagree that wes and X haven't shown enough. if i did, i woulda never made this thread now, would i? think before u post, jack. |
Well John, where we disagree is that I don't think X or Wes will ever live up to their draft positions. Not this year, not the next and not the year after or the year after that. And I doubt either of us will convince the other otherwise right? |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sccit wrote: | | my underlying point was that we should expect more from X and that it wont be a huge surprise to watch him take another step forward this season... |
| Sccit wrote: | | This is about players who haven't lived up to their draft position, nothing more nothing less. |
| Sccit wrote: | | You ever heard of players breaking out? |
Let's just leave at this. I don't think X will ever live up to his draft position. Hasn't shown me enough in the 4 seasons he's been in the pros. Same with Wes. I know you don't agree ....
... bUt U R able 2 have UR own onion on this 1 my brohamburglar. |
was this supposed to prove something, other than the fact that you're a pretentious grammar-nazi?
again, you're missing the point...i don't disagree that wes and X haven't shown enough. if i did, i woulda never made this thread now, would i? think before u post, jack. |
Well John, where we disagree is that I don't think X or Wes will ever live up to their draft positions. Not this year, not the next and not the year after or the year after that. And I doubt either of us will convince the other otherwise right? |
i'm not saying whether they will or wont. i'm saying.................wait for it.....................
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........................we don't know |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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And that's why we disagree my friend. =)
They won't. IMO. All good though. I know at the end of the day we both HOPE they blow up to become all-star caliber players. |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, there's clearly a higher chance for Xavier to continue developing, and a much lower chance for Wes to meet the expectations of his draft position .. But if Wes ends up being a solid role player/defensive stopper ala Trevor Ariza, I'll take it. And if Xavier ends up being an integral piece off the bench ala Devean George, I'll take that too. |
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ch3cky0selff00
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Xavier Henry will likely never become that all-star starter that people expect out of a lottery pick.
Wesley Johnson may become a situational starter based on his attributes and things he can bring to the table. Think, Thabo Sefolosha. Thabo is an excellent defender. Wesley Johnson potential to be an excellent defender -- its up to him to put it together. It's also up to a team to take a flyer on him and develop him. It's why the Spurs are so good - they take players and put them into situations where they can succeed rather than turning them into something they're not.
One thing people are forgetting are these players were given up on. Wesley and Xavier were never with a team for longer than 2 years and when they were they weren't exactly given a role on the team.
As starters, they're iffy no doubt. As bench players.. they're excellent. They're someone you can throw into the game and change the pace of it or give your starters some good rest without embarrassing you too much.
I was a HUGE fan of the Lakers bench before injuries took players out of their roles as bench players and thrust them into starters.
I hope to see either Lin (or Nash), Xavier Henry, Nick Young, Julius Randle (or Ryan Kelly) and Robert Sacre be the Lakers bench. The Lakers will miss Jordan Farmar and Jodie Meeks but I think that bench right there has the potential to be best in the NBA. |
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Sccit
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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^ i don't think the expectations are set at "all-star" for a 12th overall pick....the previous ten 12th overall picks have been:
Steven Adams
Jeremy Lamb
Alec Burks
Geald Henderson
Jason Thompson
Thaddeus Young
Hilton Armstrong
Yaroslav Korolev
Robert Swift
Nick Collison
none have been all-stars and the best player on that list is Thaddeus Young.. if thats the expectation, then I wouldn't call it a stretch to say he still has a chance to reach that caliber. |
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