Assuming that Kobe and Nash are 100% healthy for the year...

Reflexx · Franchise Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163

This is a little different than the other thread because we all have to play by this premise: Kobe and Nash are both 100% healthy. That means no serious physical ailments.

They are still as old as they are, so they won't be jumping out of the building on every play or anything. But let's assume health.

Sure, there could be a small sprain here and there that takes them out of 2 games at a time. There may also be a need for reduced minutes because of fatigue.

These two are both all-time greats. Before Kobe went down with the Achilles injury he was playing some amazing basketball. He pretty much took the team on his back and willed them into the playoffs.

In the games where Nash was not in pain, he was extremely effective. People were here talking about how he looked like the old Steve Nash.

So, ASSUMING HEALTH... what do you think this team can do?

If you believe the team will still suck, please give reasons other than the health of these two.

Yes... you may believe that there's a 0% chance of this happening. But that doesn't matter here. Here we're assuming health.

I thought of this because of this article: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/los-angeles-lakers-trainer-gary-vitti-optimistically-talks-up-kobe-bryant-and-steve-nash-s-return-to-injury-200122851.html

In it, Vitti talks about Nash currently having no neural issues at all; unlike last summer when he still had some issues. He also talks about Kobe still being an amazing athlete and he'd never bet against him.

chrisca91 · Star Player Joined: 06 Jan 2013 Posts: 3446

barely miss the playoffs

ringfinger · Retired Number Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418

Yup. 40-45 games with both healthy. No playoffs.

yinoma2001 · Retired Number Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487

The IF HEALTHY argument can be used with almost every team:

Chicago: If Rose/Pau are healthy;
Spurs: If Manu is healthy;
Clippers: If CP3/Blake are healthy;
Indy: If Paul George...too soon.

But I'll oblige. I think about 42-44 wins if both were healthy. We have too many new pieces to incorporate, a new coach, a little undersized at the center position, defensive problems at the guard positions (both). We'd do better but both are 36 and 40 respectively. Father time is what it is.
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Aussiesuede · Franchise Player Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 10964

Hmm, 2 healthy MVP's, a playoff proven PF with legit Pick-n-Roll credentials? One of the best backup PG's running the 2nd unit? Impressive front court depth? A bunch of guys playing in contract years?

Considering that each year in the NBA brings surprises that aren't able to be predicted prior to a season, and seldom does the 2nd half of the seedings actually pan out as expected - I'd say a healthy backcourt COULD see this team make a 2nd round appearance, especially if the first round appearance is against a team like Houston, Golden State, Dallas or Phoenix. That said, if they draw San Antonio, Portland, or the Clippers, then doubt they can pull of an upset since the matchup game would not work for em.
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ringfinger · Retired Number Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418

Reflexx · Franchise Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163

I still regard Kobe very highly. I believe that he is a force on his own and is still a top 3 player in the league. He isn't as athletic or quick as the other guys, but his skill set is just so immense. I think that it's easily overlooked because nuances in footwork, positioning, and decision making aren't easy to quantify.

A healthy Nash would be amazing in my eyes. Mainly because he makes up for deficiencies that we have at other positions. He can make players like Wesley Johnson, Xavier Henry, Jordan Hill, etc... look like offensive powerhouses that can't be stopped just because he gets them the ball at the right place at the right time. That is really really really hard to do. I don't know if there is anyone in the league that is better at doing that than he is.

We'd still have challenges defensively. Hopefully Byron Scott will be able to help with instilling a defensive mentality. We have enough young energetic guys that are capable of playing great team defense if it's emphasized enough. I recall someone saying that Scott intends to spend the majority of of practice time each day on defense. That means that there will be a real defensive system for players to follow. There will be less dependence on individual defense. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I also think that Boozer still can shoot. He still can be a very effective pick and pop player. He's good at setting screens, and that will work great for guys like Kobe, Nash, and Lin.

I'm actually surprised that some people think that we wouldn't even make the playoffs.

yinoma2001 · Retired Number Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487

Reflexx. It's about defense. Not once did you or anyone else mention defense. Even assuming Nash/Kobe are relatively healthy, they are not good defenders anymore. Boozer's lackluster defense is well-documented. That's why this team will have a tough time making the playoffs, lack of defense.

Scott is right to emphasize it. But the team hasn't given him the horses to play top level defense. His NJ Nets teams had above average defenders at all 5 positions (Kidd, Kittles, Jefferson, Martin and Collins). His Hornets team had CP3 and Chandler. We have...um...
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Jackobe · Star Player Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 4466

if they are both 100%.........we are gonna win...not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, but 7 championships!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ringfinger · Retired Number Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418

Reflexx · Franchise Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163

Reflexx · Franchise Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163

yinoma2001 · Retired Number Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487

mastersworddude · Star Player Joined: 25 Aug 2012 Posts: 1937

Barely miss playoffs. The west is too tough.

deal · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject:

Healthy?

LakersMDGurl · Franchise Player Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 18015

Its all about how the coach manages both Nash and Kobe. If he plans to run them down like MDA ran both down they won't last 6 games into the season.
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fansincemagic · Franchise Player Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 11051

After last season, I don't know if anyone takes "if healthy" seriously.

Voices · Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject:

Nash is a horrible defensive player that if healthy IMO still b a pretty good offensive player. But, does playing an over the hill former 2 time MVP the right option for a team that needs to be rebuilt?

Kobe is also a dilemma, he will not change from being a scorer, since the Lakers did not get a big time FA, it probably be in the Lakers best interest to developed the younger talent, however how does Kobe help developed the keeper younger talent without hurting his legacy as a scorer?
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ringfinger · Retired Number Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418

I think the other problem with this type of question, is what does it mean to be healthy exactly?

Does that mean we have to assume Kobe/Nash won't be limited by age?

Do we have to pretend Kobe never tore his achilles? If 100% healthy, I'd still expect a significant decline for Kobe because of the achilles tear. So if I'm assuming he is healthy, I'm assuming he is as healthy as he can be for an achilles tear. Or, is that assuming he is not healthy?

I also struggle because I have no idea what post-achilles Kobe looks like. I'm not going to use the 6-game sample. I refuse to believe his falloff is that great and I chalk that up to getting back in to game shape more than representative of post-achilles Kobe.

LHQ · Starting Rotation Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 611

Half of voters are delusional.
Championship? Conference Finals?

OP said said "if healthy". Not "if healthy and cloned/time machine to the past".
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Reflexx · Franchise Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163

Reflexx · Franchise Player Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163

kinein · Starting Rotation Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 274

I don't see Nash starting, his Defense at 40 isn't going to last very long per game.

eureca · Franchise Player Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 15824

I think we would barely miss the playoffs in the West. Like the 9th seed. We would make the playoffs easily in the East.

I am hoping for a competitive season. I don't want to give the Suns that good of a pick.

You never know though. What if Marc Gasol and Zbo have injury ridden seasons? I just hope to see a team with heart this season that plays hard and plays defense.

MickMgl · Star Player Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 1987

100% at their respective ages, and after the injuries they've suffered, is not 100% of what they were before. At 100% this season, it is still unlikely that they'd be able to be more than just above average for multiple consecutive games.

The problem is, when somebody speculates about these particular players being "100%", what's implied is that they'd be more than just "above average", but in fact, that they'd resemble the caliber of play that won them MVP trophies. That's what this team would need from them to contend for the playoffs, and I don't think either of them have that in them, even at their new standards of 100%, so I still think they miss by a wide margin.

If 100% means "MVP caliber", the team could be good, but that's just not going to happen. If 100% means "healthy enough to play all season", at least that has a chance of happening, but it won't be enough to make a difference with this team.