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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Justice Antonin Scalia, in the 1992 Supreme Court case of United States v. Williams, explained what the role of a grand jury has been for hundreds of years.
It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | nickuku wrote: | In what world is it okay to commit strong-arm robbery, flee the scene, resist arrest and go for an officer's weapon. If I had done those things I would expect to get hurt. Its unfortunate he died from the cop's overreaction but why are we putting the onus solely on the cop? What happens if the cop drops his guard for a second or two?
Something else that bugged me is Michael Brown's mom creating a spectacle and inciting a riot. I don't know about the rest of you but that isn't how I typically grieve. |
Ever had your unarmed Son shot dead by a police officer? Ever had a DA fail to really try to obtain an indictment in such circumstances? I didn't think so. In any case, there are as many grief reactions as there are people in the World. Funny thing is, she's not beholden to fit your version of what her reaction to her Son's death should be. |
If my son committed a felony I sure as hell wouldn't put him on a pedestal. It's not like he was some innocent kid. Where was she and his father/stepfather to teach him right from wrong? They need to stop looking for people to blame and look at themselves. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:25 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: |
In the radio exchanges, the dispatcher describes the assailant as “a black male in a white T-shirt. He took a whole box of Swisher cigars.”
What a weird way to term it. Is there something about taking a whole box of cigars that is different than one or two? |
Just means he was serious about getting blunted up. |
Disgusting response. It amazes me how the death of a person, a teenager, can be treated so nonchalantly. SMH |
If you can think of another reason a teenager would steal Swishers then please indulge. If he took one or two, it would have meant he was going to roll a couple of blunts, probably to smoke that night. Taking an entire box means he was thinking more long term in his blunt rolling practice. |
That does not excuse your disgusting response. |
What exactly was the disgusting part? The term "blunted" is pretty common, but perhaps you're unfamiliar with it. |
I'm familiar with the terminology. The disgusting part was the use of blunt in a nonchalant manner. I took the term to be distasteful because of the circumstances. A teenager was killed, using street jargon didn't sit right with me. |
Michael Brown used the same "street jargon" that offends you.
Quote: | When he returned a little later, Brown, now with his friend Dorian Johnson, was rolling marijuana into lined notebook paper.
“You’re going to smoke it out of that?” the contractor asked. “No, we’re going to go to the store and get some skins or a blunt or something,” Brown replied, and off he went to the Ferguson Market. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-three-minutes-two-lives-collide-and-a-nation-divides-over-ferguson-shooting/2014/12/06/b78b878e-7983-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html |
What are you, about 6? Context has great weight. |
Yeah, and the context is a guy going to the market to get a blunt. You can use other euphemisms to describe a hollowed out cigar, filled with marijuana, or you can pretend that Michael Brown didn't use such "disgusting" language, but you'd just be disingenuous. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | nickuku wrote: | In what world is it okay to commit strong-arm robbery, flee the scene, resist arrest and go for an officer's weapon. If I had done those things I would expect to get hurt. Its unfortunate he died from the cop's overreaction but why are we putting the onus solely on the cop? What happens if the cop drops his guard for a second or two?
Something else that bugged me is Michael Brown's mom creating a spectacle and inciting a riot. I don't know about the rest of you but that isn't how I typically grieve. |
Ever had your unarmed Son shot dead by a police officer? Ever had a DA fail to really try to obtain an indictment in such circumstances? I didn't think so. In any case, there are as many grief reactions as there are people in the World. Funny thing is, she's not beholden to fit your version of what her reaction to her Son's death should be. |
If my son committed a felony I sure as hell wouldn't put him on a pedestal. It's not like he was some innocent kid. Where was she and his father/stepfather to teach him right from wrong? They need to stop looking for people to blame and look at themselves. |
I'm not blaming, nor is this thread about blaming. The problem in Ferguson is much bigger than the death of Michael Brown. It's about police impunity.
I don't place complete onus on the Brown family, I don't place complete onus on the Ferguson police department for the death of Michael Brown, they both have shelve levels of blame.
The reason for the looting and rioting is because Wilson wasn't indicted. Violence and looting are not the way to handle the problem but the root is what it's about.
How one can side with one or the other is beyond me. Unless a trial is held I don't believe all will be known and a viable decision to side can be made. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52624 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | In what world is it okay to commit strong-arm robbery, flee the scene, resist arrest and go for an officer's weapon. If I had done those things I would expect to get hurt. Its unfortunate he died from the cop's overreaction but why are we putting the onus solely on the cop? What happens if the cop drops his guard for a second or two?
Something else that bugged me is Michael Brown's mom creating a spectacle and inciting a riot. I don't know about the rest of you but that isn't how I typically grieve. |
I don't see too many people (here anyway) saying that Brown did nothing wrong.
I think to most of us the issue is not that Brown was a complete victim. The issue is that it wasn't up to the Grand Jury to engage in what effectively amounted trying the case themselves and finding guilt or innocence on Wilson's part. That's not even remotely their duty or right.
Not to mention that the prosector gave the Grand Jury intentionally false information about what the current law states in regards to evaluating the case.
The issue is not that Wilson "got away with" anything and that Brown was not in anyway responsible for the events. The issues is that a case that should have been properly presented to a judge and jury in open court so that ALL of the facts could be properly known and evaluated was tossed aside for obvious political reasons.
I, for one, would have had no problem if after this case had been properly sent through all the appropriate legal stages Wilson had been clear of wrong doing and walked away. So the problem that I am having is not that Brown was completely innocent. The problem is that the potential for Wilson's culpability in this case was never properly determined.
That really should bother everyone. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: |
In the radio exchanges, the dispatcher describes the assailant as “a black male in a white T-shirt. He took a whole box of Swisher cigars.”
What a weird way to term it. Is there something about taking a whole box of cigars that is different than one or two? |
Just means he was serious about getting blunted up. |
Disgusting response. It amazes me how the death of a person, a teenager, can be treated so nonchalantly. SMH |
If you can think of another reason a teenager would steal Swishers then please indulge. If he took one or two, it would have meant he was going to roll a couple of blunts, probably to smoke that night. Taking an entire box means he was thinking more long term in his blunt rolling practice. |
That does not excuse your disgusting response. |
What exactly was the disgusting part? The term "blunted" is pretty common, but perhaps you're unfamiliar with it. |
I'm familiar with the terminology. The disgusting part was the use of blunt in a nonchalant manner. I took the term to be distasteful because of the circumstances. A teenager was killed, using street jargon didn't sit right with me. |
Michael Brown used the same "street jargon" that offends you.
Quote: | When he returned a little later, Brown, now with his friend Dorian Johnson, was rolling marijuana into lined notebook paper.
“You’re going to smoke it out of that?” the contractor asked. “No, we’re going to go to the store and get some skins or a blunt or something,” Brown replied, and off he went to the Ferguson Market. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-three-minutes-two-lives-collide-and-a-nation-divides-over-ferguson-shooting/2014/12/06/b78b878e-7983-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html |
What are you, about 6? Context has great weight. |
Yeah, and the context is a guy going to the market to get a blunt. You can use other euphemisms to describe a hollowed out cigar, filled with marijuana, or you can pretend that Michael Brown didn't use such "disgusting" language, but you'd just be disingenuous. |
Did you read the entire article? There was much more than a passing conversation about blunts chronicled. It says a lot about why things unfolded the way they did. Aslo written were good things about Michael's character. Quote: | Brown was 18, big, funny, a marijuana smoker, religious and, on that summer’s day, a kid who robbed a convenience store of a $15 packet of cigarillos. Wilson was 28, big, soft-spoken, divorced, the son of a woman who was convicted of stealing — an officer with a clean record, an officer who had never before fired his weapon on duty. | Disingenous much? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Fallout Star Player
Joined: 03 Jun 2002 Posts: 7626
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: |
In the radio exchanges, the dispatcher describes the assailant as “a black male in a white T-shirt. He took a whole box of Swisher cigars.”
What a weird way to term it. Is there something about taking a whole box of cigars that is different than one or two? |
Just means he was serious about getting blunted up. |
Disgusting response. It amazes me how the death of a person, a teenager, can be treated so nonchalantly. SMH |
If you can think of another reason a teenager would steal Swishers then please indulge. If he took one or two, it would have meant he was going to roll a couple of blunts, probably to smoke that night. Taking an entire box means he was thinking more long term in his blunt rolling practice. |
That does not excuse your disgusting response. |
What exactly was the disgusting part? The term "blunted" is pretty common, but perhaps you're unfamiliar with it. |
I'm familiar with the terminology. The disgusting part was the use of blunt in a nonchalant manner. I took the term to be distasteful because of the circumstances. A teenager was killed, using street jargon didn't sit right with me. |
Michael Brown used the same "street jargon" that offends you.
Quote: | When he returned a little later, Brown, now with his friend Dorian Johnson, was rolling marijuana into lined notebook paper.
“You’re going to smoke it out of that?” the contractor asked. “No, we’re going to go to the store and get some skins or a blunt or something,” Brown replied, and off he went to the Ferguson Market. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-three-minutes-two-lives-collide-and-a-nation-divides-over-ferguson-shooting/2014/12/06/b78b878e-7983-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html |
What are you, about 6? Context has great weight. |
Yeah, and the context is a guy going to the market to get a blunt. You can use other euphemisms to describe a hollowed out cigar, filled with marijuana, or you can pretend that Michael Brown didn't use such "disgusting" language, but you'd just be disingenuous. |
Did you read the entire article? There was much more than a passing conversation about blunts chronicled. It says a lot about why things unfolded the way they did. Aslo written were good things about Michael's character. Quote: | Brown was 18, big, funny, a marijuana smoker, religious and, on that summer’s day, a kid who robbed a convenience store of a $15 packet of cigarillos. Wilson was 28, big, soft-spoken, divorced, the son of a woman who was convicted of stealing — an officer with a clean record, an officer who had never before fired his weapon on duty. | Disingenous much? |
Seems this thread is running its course if debating using slang is being disrespectful.
What happens to Brown if he wasn't shot? Would he be convicted for robbery, under the influence, assaulting a peace officer, resisting arrest and so on? Brown is legally an adult, not a teenager. Most likely jail time and classified as felony? The issue is police brutality, not Browns character. _________________ The journey to 17 begins... |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Fallout wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | jodeke wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | DaMuleRules wrote: |
In the radio exchanges, the dispatcher describes the assailant as “a black male in a white T-shirt. He took a whole box of Swisher cigars.”
What a weird way to term it. Is there something about taking a whole box of cigars that is different than one or two? |
Just means he was serious about getting blunted up. |
Disgusting response. It amazes me how the death of a person, a teenager, can be treated so nonchalantly. SMH |
If you can think of another reason a teenager would steal Swishers then please indulge. If he took one or two, it would have meant he was going to roll a couple of blunts, probably to smoke that night. Taking an entire box means he was thinking more long term in his blunt rolling practice. |
That does not excuse your disgusting response. |
What exactly was the disgusting part? The term "blunted" is pretty common, but perhaps you're unfamiliar with it. |
I'm familiar with the terminology. The disgusting part was the use of blunt in a nonchalant manner. I took the term to be distasteful because of the circumstances. A teenager was killed, using street jargon didn't sit right with me. |
Michael Brown used the same "street jargon" that offends you.
Quote: | When he returned a little later, Brown, now with his friend Dorian Johnson, was rolling marijuana into lined notebook paper.
“You’re going to smoke it out of that?” the contractor asked. “No, we’re going to go to the store and get some skins or a blunt or something,” Brown replied, and off he went to the Ferguson Market. |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-three-minutes-two-lives-collide-and-a-nation-divides-over-ferguson-shooting/2014/12/06/b78b878e-7983-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html |
What are you, about 6? Context has great weight. |
Yeah, and the context is a guy going to the market to get a blunt. You can use other euphemisms to describe a hollowed out cigar, filled with marijuana, or you can pretend that Michael Brown didn't use such "disgusting" language, but you'd just be disingenuous. |
Did you read the entire article? There was much more than a passing conversation about blunts chronicled. It says a lot about why things unfolded the way they did. Aslo written were good things about Michael's character. Quote: | Brown was 18, big, funny, a marijuana smoker, religious and, on that summer’s day, a kid who robbed a convenience store of a $15 packet of cigarillos. Wilson was 28, big, soft-spoken, divorced, the son of a woman who was convicted of stealing — an officer with a clean record, an officer who had never before fired his weapon on duty. | Disingenous much? |
Seems this thread is running its course if debating using slang is being disrespectful.
What happens to Brown if he wasn't shot? Would he be convicted for robbery, under the influence, assaulting a peace officer, resisting arrest and so on? Brown is legally an adult, not a teenager. Most likely jail time and classified as felony? The issue is police brutality, not Browns character. | Something I've been saying for quite some time. Thanks for making my point. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Quote: |
Did you read the entire article? There was much more than a passing conversation about blunts chronicled. It says a lot about why things unfolded the way they did. Aslo written were good things about Michael's character. |
Quote: | Brown was 18, big, funny, a marijuana smoker, religious and, on that summer’s day, a kid who robbed a convenience store of a $15 packet of cigarillos. Wilson was 28, big, soft-spoken, divorced, the son of a woman who was convicted of stealing — an officer with a clean record, an officer who had never before fired his weapon on duty. | Disingenous much? |
That's great, but doesn't change the fact that he used the same disgusting language that I'm being accused of using here. Brown's character wasn't being discussed, just his use of the word blunt. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Quote: |
Did you read the entire article? There was much more than a passing conversation about blunts chronicled. It says a lot about why things unfolded the way they did. Aslo written were good things about Michael's character. |
Quote: | Brown was 18, big, funny, a marijuana smoker, religious and, on that summer’s day, a kid who robbed a convenience store of a $15 packet of cigarillos. Wilson was 28, big, soft-spoken, divorced, the son of a woman who was convicted of stealing — an officer with a clean record, an officer who had never before fired his weapon on duty. | Disingenous much? |
That's great, but doesn't change the fact that he used the same disgusting language that I'm being accused of using here. Brown's character wasn't being discussed, just his use of the word blunt. |
You just don't get it. It's not the word it's the circumstances. If you want to talk about something I said, talk to me. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | Justice Scalia Explains What Was Wrong With The Ferguson Grand Jury
LINK
Quote: | As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented. |
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They don't have the right to refuse to testify, either, though they can take the Fifth like anyone else. It is common for prosecutors to call police officers in shooting cases.
There is nothing unusual about the way that this case got handled. Let's not lose the signal in the noise. The real lesson of this case -- and the Staten Island case -- is that grand juries don't indict cops very often and that prosecutors do not push hard for indictments. I agree with the ex-cop who wrote the article that someone cited here. If you want to fix this issue, you need a special prosecutor or a state prosecutor from outside the community. This should sound familiar to you from another case that we discussed at great length not so long ago. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jodeke wrote: | Justice Scalia Explains What Was Wrong With The Ferguson Grand Jury
LINK
Quote: | As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented. |
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They don't have the right to refuse to testify, either, though they can take the Fifth like anyone else. It is common for prosecutors to call police officers in shooting cases.
There is nothing unusual about the way that this case got handled. Let's not lose the signal in the noise. The real lesson of this case -- and the Staten Island case -- is that grand juries don't indict cops very often and that prosecutors do not push hard for indictments. I agree with the ex-cop who wrote the article that someone cited here. If you want to fix this issue, you need a special prosecutor or a state prosecutor from outside the community. This should sound familiar to you from another case that we discussed at great length not so long ago. |
Does the law allow the accused to present exculpatory testimony? If so is a prosecutor allowed to debunk it? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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^^^^
The prosecution can present whatever evidence it wants, and usually the grand jury can subpoena witnesses if it wants. The accused has no special rights at this stage because he or she hasn't been indicted yet. If the prosecutor calls the accused, or if the grand jury subpoenas the accused, then the accused can testify. If a witness is the target of the grand jury's investigation, the prosecution sometimes must provide a "target warning" prior to the grand jury testimony. There is no right to counsel before a grand jury.
Don't get lost in the noise. The relevant issue has nothing to do with the right of the accused to present exculpatory testimony or whether a prosecutor can debunk it. If you get past the screechy nonsense like that article you linked, the lesson is that grand juries and prosecutors operate very differently in cases involving law enforcement than they do in cases involving civilians. This is true pretty much everywhere, and it has been true for a long time. Cops regularly testify, and prosecutors do not press hard for indictments. The Ferguson grand jury is the rule, not the exception. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: |
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^^^^ Do you think the DOJ's envolvment will bring Wilson to trial, if so what will the filing be? Do you see Wilson being tried for anything, if so what? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/breaking-the-real-michael-brown-they-dont-want-you-to-see-shocking-video-release/
FYI. Someone just posted this on facebook. I can't tell for sure if its him but there is a strong resemblance. |
You can't tell that's not Michael Brown? LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | nickuku wrote: | http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/breaking-the-real-michael-brown-they-dont-want-you-to-see-shocking-video-release/
FYI. Someone just posted this on facebook. I can't tell for sure if its him but there is a strong resemblance. |
You can't tell that's not Michael Brown? LINK |
its pixelated as (bleep). _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | jodeke wrote: | nickuku wrote: | http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/breaking-the-real-michael-brown-they-dont-want-you-to-see-shocking-video-release/
FYI. Someone just posted this on facebook. I can't tell for sure if its him but there is a strong resemblance. |
You can't tell that's not Michael Brown? LINK |
its pixelated as (bleep). |
No way that dude is 6'4' and he looks nothing like Brown.
We don't all really look alike. I say again LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/breaking-the-real-michael-brown-they-dont-want-you-to-see-shocking-video-release/
FYI. Someone just posted this on facebook. I can't tell for sure if its him but there is a strong resemblance. |
Can't tell if it's him or not. But dude definitely can't fight. Typical big bully. He'd be taken out by a middleweight MMA fighter in about 30 seconds. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | ^^^^
The prosecution can present whatever evidence it wants, and usually the grand jury can subpoena witnesses if it wants. The accused has no special rights at this stage because he or she hasn't been indicted yet. If the prosecutor calls the accused, or if the grand jury subpoenas the accused, then the accused can testify. If a witness is the target of the grand jury's investigation, the prosecution sometimes must provide a "target warning" prior to the grand jury testimony. There is no right to counsel before a grand jury.
Don't get lost in the noise. The relevant issue has nothing to do with the right of the accused to present exculpatory testimony or whether a prosecutor can debunk it. If you get past the screechy nonsense like that article you linked, the lesson is that grand juries and prosecutors operate very differently in cases involving law enforcement than they do in cases involving civilians. This is true pretty much everywhere, and it has been true for a long time. Cops regularly testify, and prosecutors do not press hard for indictments. The Ferguson grand jury is the rule, not the exception. |
Heard on the radio today that GJ's have indicted only 1 of 81 cops in cases of shootings but have failed to indict only 11 out of 162,000 civilians in such cases. Clearly THIS is one of the main problems. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | ^^^^ Do you think the DOJ's envolvment will bring Wilson to trial, if so what will the filing be? Do you see Wilson being tried for anything, if so what? |
I would bet against the Feds getting involved in Ferguson. Regardless of what you personally think about the evidence (which has some force, in my opinion), it would be tough to win beyond a reasonable doubt.
Staten Island is a different ballgame. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Heard on the radio today that GJ's have indicted only 1 of 81 cops in cases of shootings but have failed to indict only 11 out of 162,000 civilians in such cases. Clearly THIS is one of the main problems. |
I would wager that several of those 11 cases were self-defense cases aka Zimmerman. We had one in Houston about a year ago. I doubt that the DA pushed hard for an indictment. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | jodeke wrote: | ^^^^ Do you think the DOJ's envolvment will bring Wilson to trial, if so what will the filing be? Do you see Wilson being tried for anything, if so what? |
I would bet against the Feds getting involved in Ferguson. Regardless of what you personally think about the evidence (which has some force, in my opinion), it would be tough to win beyond a reasonable doubt.
Staten Island is a different ballgame. |
I don't understand. I thought they were already involved, investigating. What's the depth of their investigation? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ContagiousInspiration Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Not him.. Dude looks
Older
Blacker
Has stubble from facial hair |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | I don't understand. I thought they were already involved, investigating. What's the depth of their investigation? |
Who knows? However, there is a big difference between investigating and actually doing something. They investigated Zimmerman, too. |
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