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shansen008
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | shansen008 wrote:
I mean think about it, you still have people saying that if George ZImmerman hadnt disobeyed orders to stay in his truck, that Trayvon would still be alive.
I'm one of those people. If Zimmerman had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow Martin, gotten back in his truck and waited for the police, Trayvon would still be alive.
We know through the evidence that that isnt what happened, but TONS of people still see it that way. Because thats how they want to see it. It will be the same in this case too.
Some ignore what the dispatcher said, make excuses for Zimmerman following Martin because that's the way the want to see it. But that's digressing. Let's stay on point,
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Youre living in fantasy land then. Ive heard the pollice recording, and Zimmerman was clearly out of the truck already and following Martin when the dispatcher said they didnt need him to follow Martin. Believe what you like, but you cant honestly argue this point anymore. Everyone and theyre lawyer heard it.
I dont want to rehash TM and GZ, this is about Michael brown and Darren Wilson. But through your reply here, its obvious the point i was trying to make with the comparison has merit. |
Please stay on the topic at hand and do not intermix the Zimmerman/Martin case. The facts of this case have nothing to do with that one. |
It had everything to do with the topic in the context that i brought it up in. If you read my original post. |
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shansen008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | Nobody needs a lawyer to tell the truth. |
That's a load of BS and you know it. |
Not really, i guess as a cynic you have me beat. |
So if someone gets a lawyer, you assume that means they aren't telling the truth . . . and you call me the cynic?
That's irony at it's richest. |
I didnt assume anything. There you go again.....
In fact i believe ive said that i wasnt calling her a liar. You talking to yourself again? |
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shansen008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | shansen008 wrote:
I mean think about it, you still have people saying that if George ZImmerman hadnt disobeyed orders to stay in his truck, that Trayvon would still be alive.
I'm one of those people. If Zimmerman had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow Martin, gotten back in his truck and waited for the police, Trayvon would still be alive.
We know through the evidence that that isnt what happened, but TONS of people still see it that way. Because thats how they want to see it. It will be the same in this case too.
Some ignore what the dispatcher said, make excuses for Zimmerman following Martin because that's the way the want to see it. But that's digressing. Let's stay on point,
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Youre living in fantasy land then. Ive heard the pollice recording, and Zimmerman was clearly out of the truck already and following Martin when the dispatcher said they didnt need him to follow Martin. Believe what you like, but you cant honestly argue this point anymore. Everyone and theyre lawyer heard it.
I dont want to rehash TM and GZ, this is about Michael brown and Darren Wilson. But through your reply here, its obvious the point i was trying to make with the comparison has merit. |
OK, he was out of his truck, the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follw Martin. What's there to argue? If he'd gone back to his truck, waited for the police, not follow Martin as he was told it wasn't needed, he wouldn't have been in Martins's presense. How can you see it any other way? |
Listen to the full unedited police call. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just heard the alleged audio of the shooting. As most if not all the witnesses reported, there was a pause before the second round of shots were fired. I don't think that fact determines guilt or innocence for the PO.
But this audio recording is funny. I doubt anyone would give this out to the national radio if it was a fake. What the guy is saying over the shots is too funny and embarrassing to give the public otherwise.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/26/lead-tapper-dnt-audio-michael-brown-ferguson.cnn.html
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Fallout
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Just heard the alleged audio of the shooting. As most if not all the witnesses reported, there was a pause before the second round of shots were fired. I don't think that fact determines guilt or innocence for the PO.
But this audio recording is funny. I doubt anyone would give this out to the national radio if it was a fake. What the guy is saying over the shots is too funny and embarrassing to give the public otherwise.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/26/lead-tapper-dnt-audio-michael-brown-ferguson.cnn.html |
It sounds like a scene from a pron movie  funny that he or the girl recorded the conversation.
After a volley of shots anyone would surrender or be incapacitated. Unless the first volley missed and Brown was really affected by the weed and kept charging.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| shansen008 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | shansen008 wrote:
I mean think about it, you still have people saying that if George ZImmerman hadnt disobeyed orders to stay in his truck, that Trayvon would still be alive.
I'm one of those people. If Zimmerman had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow Martin, gotten back in his truck and waited for the police, Trayvon would still be alive.
We know through the evidence that that isnt what happened, but TONS of people still see it that way. Because thats how they want to see it. It will be the same in this case too.
Some ignore what the dispatcher said, make excuses for Zimmerman following Martin because that's the way the want to see it. But that's digressing. Let's stay on point,
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Youre living in fantasy land then. Ive heard the pollice recording, and Zimmerman was clearly out of the truck already and following Martin when the dispatcher said they didnt need him to follow Martin. Believe what you like, but you cant honestly argue this point anymore. Everyone and theyre lawyer heard it.
I dont want to rehash TM and GZ, this is about Michael brown and Darren Wilson. But through your reply here, its obvious the point i was trying to make with the comparison has merit. |
OK, he was out of his truck, the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follw Martin. What's there to argue? If he'd gone back to his truck, waited for the police, not follow Martin as he was told it wasn't needed, he wouldn't have been in Martins's presense. How can you see it any other way? |
Listen to the full unedited police call. |
P-l-e-a-s-e.
This is not for your singular purpose. A mod asked you to cool it. The contemporaneous Zimmerman thread was locked. Let's not invite this to follow suit.
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| shansen008 wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | shansen008 wrote:
I mean think about it, you still have people saying that if George ZImmerman hadnt disobeyed orders to stay in his truck, that Trayvon would still be alive.
I'm one of those people. If Zimmerman had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow Martin, gotten back in his truck and waited for the police, Trayvon would still be alive.
We know through the evidence that that isnt what happened, but TONS of people still see it that way. Because thats how they want to see it. It will be the same in this case too.
Some ignore what the dispatcher said, make excuses for Zimmerman following Martin because that's the way the want to see it. But that's digressing. Let's stay on point,
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Youre living in fantasy land then. Ive heard the pollice recording, and Zimmerman was clearly out of the truck already and following Martin when the dispatcher said they didnt need him to follow Martin. Believe what you like, but you cant honestly argue this point anymore. Everyone and theyre lawyer heard it.
I dont want to rehash TM and GZ, this is about Michael brown and Darren Wilson. But through your reply here, its obvious the point i was trying to make with the comparison has merit. |
Please stay on the topic at hand and do not intermix the Zimmerman/Martin case. The facts of this case have nothing to do with that one. |
It had everything to do with the topic in the context that i brought it up in. If you read my original post. |
I didn't ask you to justify the context,
I told you not to do it.
See the difference? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Fallout wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Just heard the alleged audio of the shooting. As most if not all the witnesses reported, there was a pause before the second round of shots were fired. I don't think that fact determines guilt or innocence for the PO.
But this audio recording is funny. I doubt anyone would give this out to the national radio if it was a fake. What the guy is saying over the shots is too funny and embarrassing to give the public otherwise.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/26/lead-tapper-dnt-audio-michael-brown-ferguson.cnn.html |
It sounds like a scene from a pron movie funny that he or the girl recorded the conversation.
After a volley of shots anyone would surrender or be incapacitated. Unless the first volley missed and Brown was really affected by the weed and kept charging. |
What it categorically does not support is the shot fired in the car as they struggle for the gun. It supports Wilson blazing away as Brown runs away though (and those two grazing wounds), a significant pause (Brown stops and turns around?), then another shot, a short pause and a much more measured three shot burst. In Wilson's version, you would expect a single shot, a pause, a shot or 3, a pause, and then blazing away as Brown charged. The oannicked or hurried shots are all up front instead, and the later stuff very controlled. While not conclusive, much more supportive of eyewitness narrative. There certainly isn't any time for Brown to stand there taunting Wilson, as the plant "Josie" was forwarding. This is of course why she was out out there. The police can deny any portion of her tale as dictated by evidence coming out, without themselves having to retract their own story.
It sounds for all the world like the narrative of Wilson stopping to tell Brown to get out of the street, not knowing he's a robbery suspect. Brown however, thinks the stop is for the robbery, shoves Wilson back into the car and runs. Wilson, surprised and angered by the unexpected (and to him unprovoked) behavior, leaps out and gives chase, firing away wildly. Brown is nicked by a couple rounds, and stops, turning around and raising his arms. Wilson, perhaps realizing he is in a pickle, or perhaps angry, pops him with a single shot, takes a slight pause, and then pumps three more quick but deliberate shots into him, finishing him off.
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Fallout
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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New Audio Allegedly Captures Moment Michael Brown Was Shot
LINK
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only thing I can think of is, allow time so recollections will start to vary.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| shansen008 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | Nobody needs a lawyer to tell the truth. |
That's a load of BS and you know it. |
Not really, i guess as a cynic you have me beat. |
So if someone gets a lawyer, you assume that means they aren't telling the truth . . . and you call me the cynic?
That's irony at it's richest. |
I didnt assume anything. There you go again.....
In fact i believe ive said that i wasnt calling her a liar. You talking to yourself again? |
Nope. I'm talking to you, the guy who said the above when stating that you give the witness in question a lesser degree of credibility because she got a lawyer. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | Nobody needs a lawyer to tell the truth. |
That's a load of BS and you know it. |
Not really, i guess as a cynic you have me beat. |
So if someone gets a lawyer, you assume that means they aren't telling the truth . . . and you call me the cynic?
That's irony at it's richest. |
I didnt assume anything. There you go again.....
In fact i believe ive said that i wasnt calling her a liar. You talking to yourself again? |
Nope. I'm talking to you, the guy who said the above when stating that you give the witness in question a lesser degree of credibility because she got a lawyer. |
There are a lot of witnesses with a lesser degree of credibility. Just about all that came forward came with a lawyer.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | New Audio Allegedly Captures Moment Michael Brown Was Shot
LINK
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary. |
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: |
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I drew one conclusion from the audio, homie got no game. 
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | New Audio Allegedly Captures Moment Michael Brown Was Shot
LINK
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary. |
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police. |
I've heard a similar analysis but didn't Brown's friend also say Brown was shot in or around the car and was bleeding?
That we don't hear that shot may be because it was muffled by being in the car or was before the taping.
Also, Baden indicated only one shot could have been from behind.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | New Audio Allegedly Captures Moment Michael Brown Was Shot
LINK
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary. |
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police. |
I've heard a similar analysis but didn't Brown's friend also say Brown was shot in or around the car and was bleeding?
That we don't hear that shot may be because it was muffled by being in the car or was before the taping.
Also, Baden indicated only one shot could have been from behind. |
I don't remember him saying he was shot in or around the car. I haven't pulled the video.
Off the top of my head I remember him saying Brown pulled away, was running and a bullet hit him, he turned around, put his hands up and said he didn't have a gun and Wilson kept firing.
Why Brown and Wilson's clothes aren't available is suspicious. Forensics could shed much light on what actually happened.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | New Audio Allegedly Captures Moment Michael Brown Was Shot
LINK
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary. |
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police. |
I've heard a similar analysis but didn't Brown's friend also say Brown was shot in or around the car and was bleeding?
That we don't hear that shot may be because it was muffled by being in the car or was before the taping.
Also, Baden indicated only one shot could have been from behind. |
I don't remember him saying he was shot in or around the car. I haven't pulled the video.
Off the top of my head I remember him saying Brown pulled away, was running and a bullet hit him, he turned around, put his hands up and said he didn't have a gun and Wilson kept firing.
Why Brown and Wilson's clothes aren't available is suspicious. Forensics could shed much light on what actually happened. |
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri
About a 1:30 into the All In show with Chris Hayes (scroll down).
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | New Audio Allegedly Captures Moment Michael Brown Was Shot
LINK
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary. |
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police. |
I've heard a similar analysis but didn't Brown's friend also say Brown was shot in or around the car and was bleeding?
That we don't hear that shot may be because it was muffled by being in the car or was before the taping.
Also, Baden indicated only one shot could have been from behind. |
I don't remember him saying he was shot in or around the car. I haven't pulled the video.
Off the top of my head I remember him saying Brown pulled away, was running and a bullet hit him, he turned around, put his hands up and said he didn't have a gun and Wilson kept firing.
Why Brown and Wilson's clothes aren't available is suspicious. Forensics could shed much light on what actually happened. |
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri
About a 1:30 into the All In show with Chris Hayes (scroll down). |
I pulled the video. He did say he was shot in the car and was bleeding. LINK Why won't the police release the clothes of Wilson and Brown? Examination of them could shed light on what really happened. It would also make Johnson's eyewitness account more credible.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
I pulled the video. He did say he was shot in the car and was bleeding. LINK Why won't the police release the clothes of Wilson and Brown? Examination of them could shed light on what really happened. It would also make Johnson's eyewitness account more credible. |
It is possible that the police are preventing the building a story around the evidence as its being released, for Wilson or witnesses.
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Fallout
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Why won't the police release the clothes of Wilson and Brown? Examination of them could shed light on what really happened. It would also make Johnson's eyewitness account more credible. |
Well this is an ongoing investigation, can't just release evidence. Have to wait for the trial.
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
Last edited by Fan0Bynum17 on Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Fallout wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Why won't the police release the clothes of Wilson and Brown? Examination of them could shed light on what really happened. It would also make Johnson's eyewitness account more credible. |
Well this is an ongoing investigation, can't just release evidence. Have to wait for the trial. |
They don't have to wait to release it to investigators. I've seen nothing saying they have been examined. If testing shows powder burns, seems they would release it.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car? |
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Fallout wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | Why won't the police release the clothes of Wilson and Brown? Examination of them could shed light on what really happened. It would also make Johnson's eyewitness account more credible. |
Well this is an ongoing investigation, can't just release evidence. Have to wait for the trial. |
They don't have to wait to release it to investigators. I've seen nothing saying they have been examined. If testing shows powder burns, seems they would release it. |
You're right, if you say the evidence needs to released then it will be. SMH
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Fan0Bynum17
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Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 15436
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car? |
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling. |
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily. |
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