Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67312 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily.
We're in concert. No reason for not releasing the examination results of the car and clothing.
EDIT: What puzzles me is, most of the videos I've seen favor Michael Brown. If a shot was fired in the patrol car that's evidence that would support Wilson. What's really going on? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67312 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject:
KobeRe-Loaded wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fallout wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Why won't the police release the clothes of Wilson and Brown? Examination of them could shed light on what really happened. It would also make Johnson's eyewitness account more credible.
Well this is an ongoing investigation, can't just release evidence. Have to wait for the trial.
They don't have to wait to release it to investigators. I've seen nothing saying they have been examined. If testing shows powder burns, seems they would release it.
You're right, if you say the evidence needs to released then it will be. SMH
Not because I say so. You're being sarcastic. Why release some and not all? Videos are being released left and right. Why not forensic reports? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary.
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police.
I've heard a similar analysis but didn't Brown's friend also say Brown was shot in or around the car and was bleeding?
That we don't hear that shot may be because it was muffled by being in the car or was before the taping.
Also, Baden indicated only one shot could have been from behind.[/quothe]
Baden indicated shots could come from behind, the grazing wound to the hand and the similar wound in the bicep area. He didn't limit it to one shot. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Six shots a long pause, three more shots. Strange. I don't see how any valid conclusions could be drawn from the shots, pause, shots. I see speculation.
I'm not a student of law. It's odd in my eyes why it's taking so long to get evidence to a Grand Jury. Only think I can think of is allow time so recollections will start to vary.
There are valid conclusions if the audio is authentic:
There is no shot fired during a struggle for the gun (this is likely added in to make Brown seem dangerous enough to shoot at while running away, something the police admitted happened).
Brown could not have been missed while shot at running away, as the police contend. He was hit 6 times, and there are only 4 shots after the staccato first burst. Both of the grazing wounds, the only wounds that could be sustained from behind, would have to have been. (This supports witnesses seeing him jerk/spasm).
If there is no shot during a struggle and Brown must have been hit while running away, you have two clear false statements by police.
I've heard a similar analysis but didn't Brown's friend also say Brown was shot in or around the car and was bleeding?
That we don't hear that shot may be because it was muffled by being in the car or was before the taping.
Also, Baden indicated only one shot could have been from behind.
Baden indicated shots could come from behind, the grazing wound to the hand and the similar wound in the bicep area. He didn't limit it to one shot.
I just watched the whole press conference yesterday, looking at this very issue. I could not find or hear where there was any indication beyond the possibly of just one shot being fired from behind. The autopsy rear image shows only one wound from behind. I may have missed an account for more than the one shot being possibly from the rear, and if I did, if someone else catches it, let us know.
_________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily.
We're in concert. No reason for not releasing the examination results of the car and clothing.
EDIT: What puzzles me is, most of the videos I've seen favor Michael Brown. If a shot was fired in the patrol car that's evidence that would support Wilson. What's really going on?
The investigation is on going, I'm not sure why people are expecting them to release evidence or incomplete reports. All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis. When they are done and the legal stuff/trial is prepared we will see it. _________________ The journey to 17 begins...
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67312 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:29 am Post subject:
Fallout wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily.
We're in concert. No reason for not releasing the examination results of the car and clothing.
EDIT: What puzzles me is, most of the videos I've seen favor Michael Brown. If a shot was fired in the patrol car that's evidence that would support Wilson. What's really going on?
The investigation is on going, I'm not sure why people are expecting them to release evidence or incomplete reports. All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis. When they are done and the legal stuff/trial is prepared we will see it.
I'd agree if no evidence had been released. Autopsy reports, videos and audio of the shooting, video of Michael strong arming a convenience store clerk, those items are evidence in a incomplete investigation.
The pieces of evidence that I'm interested in that haven't been released are, the results of Wilson and Brown's clothing. Also if a shot was fired in the patrol car there should be evidence of it occurring. I'd be satisfied if those items have been released to federal investigators.
If you've noticed, I'm not asking for all, just the forensics of the clothes and patrol car.
You say All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis, what do you think releasing what they have has done? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
The investigation is on going, I'm not sure why people are expecting them to release evidence or incomplete reports. All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis. When they are done and the legal stuff/trial is prepared we will see it.
Maybe what bothers some, is that, typically, the damming evidence is released piece-meal--to, I suspect, influence public opinion and possibly potential jurors. But then, typically, the police and the DA are on the same side. In this case, they may not be. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily.
We're in concert. No reason for not releasing the examination results of the car and clothing.
EDIT: What puzzles me is, most of the videos I've seen favor Michael Brown. If a shot was fired in the patrol car that's evidence that would support Wilson. What's really going on?
The investigation is on going, I'm not sure why people are expecting them to release evidence or incomplete reports. All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis. When they are done and the legal stuff/trial is prepared we will see it.
I'd agree if no evidence had been released. Autopsy reports, videos and audio of the shooting, video of Michael strong arming a convenience store clerk, those items are evidence in a incomplete investigation.
The pieces of evidence that I'm interested in that haven't been released are, the results of Wilson and Brown's clothing. Also if a shot was fired in the patrol car there should be evidence of it occurring. I'd be satisfied if those items have been released to federal investigators.
If you've noticed, I'm not asking for all, just the forensics of the clothes and patrol car.
You say All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis, what do you think releasing what they have has done?
I haven't kept up with all the stuff released. From the actual police, was the only thing that was released the store video? Most of the stuff I've seen are not from the police. Has the federal investigators release anything at all? _________________ The journey to 17 begins...
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67312 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject:
Fallout wrote:
Quote:
I haven't kept up with all the stuff released. From the actual police, was the only thing that was released the store video? Most of the stuff I've seen are not from the police. Has the federal investigators release anything at all?
You make a good point. I'm looking it from a laymen's perch and assume the videos we've seen will be used as evidence. As the old adage goes. You know what assume does, "Makes aASSout of U and ME"
I know the autopsy is evidence, the videos may have to be ruled in or out by the court.
I don't think the feds are in the loop as yet. Their position is investigative. If they go to court I think it will be in a civil case.
No charges have been filed to date so I'd guess jurisdiction is with the Ferguson police.
I've heard enough to vote for an indictment if I were on the Grand Jury panel. I don't have much faith in McCulloch. I'm still holding hope for a special prosecutor _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily.
We're in concert. No reason for not releasing the examination results of the car and clothing.
EDIT: What puzzles me is, most of the videos I've seen favor Michael Brown. If a shot was fired in the patrol car that's evidence that would support Wilson. What's really going on?
The investigation is on going, I'm not sure why people are expecting them to release evidence or incomplete reports. All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis. When they are done and the legal stuff/trial is prepared we will see it.
I'd agree if no evidence had been released. Autopsy reports, videos and audio of the shooting, video of Michael strong arming a convenience store clerk, those items are evidence in a incomplete investigation.
The pieces of evidence that I'm interested in that haven't been released are, the results of Wilson and Brown's clothing. Also if a shot was fired in the patrol car there should be evidence of it occurring. I'd be satisfied if those items have been released to federal investigators.
If you've noticed, I'm not asking for all, just the forensics of the clothes and patrol car.
You say All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis, what do you think releasing what they have has done?
I haven't kept up with all the stuff released. From the actual police, was the only thing that was released the store video? Most of the stuff I've seen are not from the police. Has the federal investigators release anything at all?
Store vid and 3rd party autopsy report. A lot of other stuff has come from people on social media or talking to reporters. I dont know why hes puzzled that they would keep a tight wrap on information during an ongoing investigation. Your guess is as good as mine there.
shansen008 wrote: I mean think about it, you still have people saying that if George ZImmerman hadnt disobeyed orders to stay in his truck, that Trayvon would still be alive.
I'm one of those people. If Zimmerman had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow Martin, gotten back in his truck and waited for the police, Trayvon would still be alive.
We know through the evidence that that isnt what happened, but TONS of people still see it that way. Because thats how they want to see it. It will be the same in this case too.
Some ignore what the dispatcher said, make excuses for Zimmerman following Martin because that's the way the want to see it. But that's digressing. Let's stay on point,
Youre living in fantasy land then. Ive heard the pollice recording, and Zimmerman was clearly out of the truck already and following Martin when the dispatcher said they didnt need him to follow Martin. Believe what you like, but you cant honestly argue this point anymore. Everyone and theyre lawyer heard it.
I dont want to rehash TM and GZ, this is about Michael brown and Darren Wilson. But through your reply here, its obvious the point i was trying to make with the comparison has merit.
Please stay on the topic at hand and do not intermix the Zimmerman/Martin case. The facts of this case have nothing to do with that one.
It had everything to do with the topic in the context that i brought it up in. If you read my original post.
I didn't ask you to justify the context,
I told you not to do it.
See the difference?
On what grounds? I brought it up as an example of how people might feel after Ferguson is settled, i didnt bring it up to re-examine the case. There is no semantic argument, just evidence. The point was will people still be dissatisfied with the verdict even in the face of evidence if in fact Wilson is vindicated in this case.
I referenced the publics feelings about a case, being perhaps similar to this one. Its about distrust in the legal system. Im not INTERMIXING a damn thing. I was talking about FERGUSON. Do YOU see the difference? It was a perfectly valid reference.
Go talk to the other guy if you want to keep people from arguing about Trayvon. That case is done. He was acquitted, remember?
shansen008 wrote: I mean think about it, you still have people saying that if George ZImmerman hadnt disobeyed orders to stay in his truck, that Trayvon would still be alive.
I'm one of those people. If Zimmerman had followed the dispatchers instructions not to follow Martin, gotten back in his truck and waited for the police, Trayvon would still be alive.
We know through the evidence that that isnt what happened, but TONS of people still see it that way. Because thats how they want to see it. It will be the same in this case too.
Some ignore what the dispatcher said, make excuses for Zimmerman following Martin because that's the way the want to see it. But that's digressing. Let's stay on point,
Youre living in fantasy land then. Ive heard the pollice recording, and Zimmerman was clearly out of the truck already and following Martin when the dispatcher said they didnt need him to follow Martin. Believe what you like, but you cant honestly argue this point anymore. Everyone and theyre lawyer heard it.
I dont want to rehash TM and GZ, this is about Michael brown and Darren Wilson. But through your reply here, its obvious the point i was trying to make with the comparison has merit.
Please stay on the topic at hand and do not intermix the Zimmerman/Martin case. The facts of this case have nothing to do with that one.
It had everything to do with the topic in the context that i brought it up in. If you read my original post.
I didn't ask you to justify the context,
I told you not to do it.
See the difference?
On what grounds? I brought it up as an example of how people might feel after Ferguson is settled, i didnt bring it up to re-examine the case. There is no semantic argument, just evidence. The point was will people still be dissatisfied with the verdict even in the face of evidence if in fact Wilson is vindicated in this case.
I referenced the publics feelings about a case, being perhaps similar to this one. Its about distrust in the legal system. Im not INTERMIXING a damn thing. I was talking about FERGUSON. Do YOU see the difference? It was a perfectly valid reference.
Go talk to the other guy if you want to keep people from arguing about Trayvon. That case is done. He was acquitted, remember?
More excuses for why you won't do what I told you to twice.
I even said 'please'.
Ignoring my gentle instruction makes me search for another option.
See you in a month.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67312 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject:
shansen008 wrote:
Fallout wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fallout wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
Are they still saying there was a shot fired inside the police car? Because if so, wouldn't that be incredibly easy to find out by a bullet hole and/or powder burns inside the car?
I'd say so, which is why their not releasing the car or clothing for examination is baffling.
I really hate this, so many people have all these opinions about what happened, people are getting angry on both sides, but all the facts should be there and easily tell the story of what happened. We don't need to rely on what people say happened, the physical evidence should say who's full of (bleep) rather easily.
We're in concert. No reason for not releasing the examination results of the car and clothing.
EDIT: What puzzles me is, most of the videos I've seen favor Michael Brown. If a shot was fired in the patrol car that's evidence that would support Wilson. What's really going on?
The investigation is on going, I'm not sure why people are expecting them to release evidence or incomplete reports. All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis. When they are done and the legal stuff/trial is prepared we will see it.
I'd agree if no evidence had been released. Autopsy reports, videos and audio of the shooting, video of Michael strong arming a convenience store clerk, those items are evidence in a incomplete investigation.
The pieces of evidence that I'm interested in that haven't been released are, the results of Wilson and Brown's clothing. Also if a shot was fired in the patrol car there should be evidence of it occurring. I'd be satisfied if those items have been released to federal investigators.
If you've noticed, I'm not asking for all, just the forensics of the clothes and patrol car.
You say All it does is people to jump to conclusions and not qualified people to make analysis, what do you think releasing what they have has done?
I haven't kept up with all the stuff released. From the actual police, was the only thing that was released the store video? Most of the stuff I've seen are not from the police. Has the federal investigators release anything at all?
Store vid and 3rd party autopsy report. A lot of other stuff has come from people on social media or talking to reporters. I dont know why hes puzzled that they would keep a tight wrap on information during an ongoing investigation. Your guess is as good as mine there.
You don't have a guess, you have a mind set and what doesn't fit your agenda you ignore. Read my response to Fallout. I advise you to be careful.
EDIT: Oops, to late, didn't see JMK's post. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
The death of Brown is already making a difference in Ferguson. It'll be interesting to see if the number of stops and altercations decrease.
I expect the biggest changes to be made in the political arena. Ferguson is in the spotlight. It's up to Ferguson citizenry to keep it there. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
The death of Brown is already making a difference in Ferguson. It'll be interesting to see if the number of stops and altercations decrease.
I expect the biggest changes to be made in the political arena. Ferguson is in the spotlight. It's up to Ferguson citizenry to keep it there.
All uniformed officers everywhere should wear them. Protects both the cops and the citizens.
It won't be long until cops start having technical difficulties on certain interactions. Oops. Sorry, apparently the camera malfunctioned. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
The death of Brown is already making a difference in Ferguson. It'll be interesting to see if the number of stops and altercations decrease.
I expect the biggest changes to be made in the political arena. Ferguson is in the spotlight. It's up to Ferguson citizenry to keep it there.
All uniformed officers everywhere should wear them. Protects both the cops and the citizens.
It won't be long until cops start having technical difficulties on certain interactions. Oops. Sorry, apparently the camera malfunctioned.
I think that would create so much controversy a good lawyer would get a client exonerated and paid for life. Especially in today's day and age. Everybody has a cell video. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:47 am; edited 2 times in total
Federal investigators are focused on one Ferguson, Mo., police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black teenager, but at least five other police officers and one former officer in the town’s 53-member department have been named in civil rights lawsuits alleging the use of excessive force.
Reading this article Ferguson hired a officer with prior civil rights violations. That doesn't bode well for the department.
Quote:
One officer has faced three internal affairs probes and two lawsuits over claims he violated civil rights and used excessive force while working at a previous police department in the mid-2000s. That department demoted him after finding credible evidence to support one of the complaints, and he subsequently was hired by the Ferguson force.
_________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
New cell phone vid. Doesn't capture the shooting, but it supposedly captures the reaction of some of the witnesses in the immediate aftermath. If this is true, then Wilson is guilty as sin of murder no matter what happened before.
New cell phone vid. Doesn't capture the shooting, but it supposedly captures the reaction of some of the witnesses in the immediate aftermath. If this is true, then Wilson is guilty as sin of murder no matter what happened before.
Yup. The evidence must come out and the facts must be heard. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
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