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| Who gets his team to a championship faster? |
| Jim Buss who hired Mike D'antoni and Mike Brown |
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| Steve Ballmer, the screaming CEO behind Windows Vista |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | Keeping Bernie would've been preferable to hiring MDA.
It wasn't as if they were taking some chance with Mike Brown and Mike D'antoni, where it could've paid off.
Almost all of the fans and the media knew what we were getting in these guys.
Mike Brown - a defensive coach who wasn't so charismatic or bright (just look at the interviews). Fired by Cleveland.
Mike D'antoni - a redneck who says odd things that don't make any sense who lucked out with Nash then was exposed later in NYC.
It's quite incredible that Lakers hired these guys. I really don't think it's hindsight bias either because at the time of hire, the board was very much negative on the hires. |
Keeping Bernie isn't a choice, he did not want to be the head coach. And the rest was just revisionist history... |
you thought MDA and brown were good choices at the time of the hires? |
MDA was an improvement over Brown.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | It's crazy... Transfer everyone on the Clippers to the Lakers minus Chris Paul, and would there be any doubt the Lakers would be the favorites for the title? What does that really say about Chris Paul? |
Yes there would be significant doubts.
Griffin does not seem to be capable of being the #1 player on a chapmpionship contender. |
I'm afraid I wasn't. Clear. Kobe replaces Paul as the #1 player. With supporting cast Kobe would definitely be in the finals. |
Not with a hobbled Kobe they won't.
Kobe is now very old and injured.
It would be very difficult to expect him to come back totally healthy after he's been hobbled for a year. |
We won't have a hobbled Kobe. And Kobe gives the Clips what CP3 and Griffin do not, someone to close out a tough game. Without that player the Clips will be happy with 2nd round playoff losses for the future. At least until CP3's knees give out for good and they are back in the lottery.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| BennyLava wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | Keeping Bernie would've been preferable to hiring MDA.
It wasn't as if they were taking some chance with Mike Brown and Mike D'antoni, where it could've paid off.
Almost all of the fans and the media knew what we were getting in these guys.
Mike Brown - a defensive coach who wasn't so charismatic or bright (just look at the interviews). Fired by Cleveland.
Mike D'antoni - a redneck who says odd things that don't make any sense who lucked out with Nash then was exposed later in NYC.
It's quite incredible that Lakers hired these guys. I really don't think it's hindsight bias either because at the time of hire, the board was very much negative on the hires. |
Keeping Bernie isn't a choice, he did not want to be the head coach. And the rest was just revisionist history... |
you thought MDA and brown were good choices at the time of the hires? |
I didn't like Mike Brown, but statistically, he was the best choice, it was between Mike Brown, Rick Adelman and Brian Shaw, .. I guess you would've picked Brian Shaw.
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Therein lies the problem, Jim was so quick to clear out the Phil brigade that he bit of his nose to spite his face. |
The problem is people believing and posting what you just did. You know, incorrect information, despite the fact that the truth has been posted over and over again.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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NomisR
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| BennyLava wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | Keeping Bernie would've been preferable to hiring MDA.
It wasn't as if they were taking some chance with Mike Brown and Mike D'antoni, where it could've paid off.
Almost all of the fans and the media knew what we were getting in these guys.
Mike Brown - a defensive coach who wasn't so charismatic or bright (just look at the interviews). Fired by Cleveland.
Mike D'antoni - a redneck who says odd things that don't make any sense who lucked out with Nash then was exposed later in NYC.
It's quite incredible that Lakers hired these guys. I really don't think it's hindsight bias either because at the time of hire, the board was very much negative on the hires. |
Keeping Bernie isn't a choice, he did not want to be the head coach. And the rest was just revisionist history... |
you thought MDA and brown were good choices at the time of the hires? |
I didn't like Mike Brown, but statistically, he was the best choice, it was between Mike Brown, Rick Adelman and Brian Shaw, .. I guess you would've picked Brian Shaw.
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Therein lies the problem, Jim was so quick to clear out the Phil brigade that he bit of his nose to spite his face. |
No, the problem was, Phil Jackson got swept by the Mavs in the 2nd round, if we got to the finals or even the conference finals, it would've been different. But since he didn't, and if it was actually Phil coaching, they probably would've continued as is. But since it was someone lesser than Phil with no actual head coach experience, it makes sense to go ahead with someone else. |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Fwiw, ballmer was kind of handed his fortune as well...
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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eureca
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 15830
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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So Ballmer's first move as owner is giving up a 1st rounder in order to get rid of Dudley's contract. They got Delfino but he is not expected to play this season. Interesting move especially since Clippers are not in the luxury tax.
Lakers could have given up Pau/Hill for nothing last season in order to save money while they were in the tax during their worse season ever. Clippers are not in the tax and are trying to win a championship and are looking for salary dumps.
I am not saying Lakers have never done salary dumps, but an an interesting start for Ballmer. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Fwiw, ballmer was kind of handed his fortune as well... |
Maybe. But Ballmer chose/gambled to work at Microsoft (was 30th employee hired). Grew up in an affluent household but from the looks of it, a very bright guy:
| Quote: | | with a perfect score of 800 on the mathematical section of the SAT. He now sits on the school's board of directors. In 1977, he graduated magna (bleep) laude from Harvard College with an A.B. in applied mathematics and economics. |
Jim didn't exactly choose to be born in the Buss family, but I guess he chose to work for the Lakers. Not saying Jim is stupid, but I think Ballmer's situation is a bit different from Jim's.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21499
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Fwiw, ballmer was kind of handed his fortune as well... |
In exchange for labor performed, you mean. |
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shnxx
Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | It's crazy... Transfer everyone on the Clippers to the Lakers minus Chris Paul, and would there be any doubt the Lakers would be the favorites for the title? What does that really say about Chris Paul? |
Yes there would be significant doubts.
Griffin does not seem to be capable of being the #1 player on a chapmpionship contender. |
I'm afraid I wasn't. Clear. Kobe replaces Paul as the #1 player. With supporting cast Kobe would definitely be in the finals. |
Not with a hobbled Kobe they won't.
Kobe is now very old and injured.
It would be very difficult to expect him to come back totally healthy after he's been hobbled for a year. |
We won't have a hobbled Kobe. And Kobe gives the Clips what CP3 and Griffin do not, someone to close out a tough game. Without that player the Clips will be happy with 2nd round playoff losses for the future. At least until CP3's knees give out for good and they are back in the lottery. |
How do you know? Divine revelation?
It is likely that an old injured player who missed a year will likely not be back to pre-injury.
To make any claim to the contrary would require extraordinary evidence. |
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shnxx
Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| NomisR wrote: | | BennyLava wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | Keeping Bernie would've been preferable to hiring MDA.
It wasn't as if they were taking some chance with Mike Brown and Mike D'antoni, where it could've paid off.
Almost all of the fans and the media knew what we were getting in these guys.
Mike Brown - a defensive coach who wasn't so charismatic or bright (just look at the interviews). Fired by Cleveland.
Mike D'antoni - a redneck who says odd things that don't make any sense who lucked out with Nash then was exposed later in NYC.
It's quite incredible that Lakers hired these guys. I really don't think it's hindsight bias either because at the time of hire, the board was very much negative on the hires. |
Keeping Bernie isn't a choice, he did not want to be the head coach. And the rest was just revisionist history... |
you thought MDA and brown were good choices at the time of the hires? |
I didn't like Mike Brown, but statistically, he was the best choice, it was between Mike Brown, Rick Adelman and Brian Shaw, .. I guess you would've picked Brian Shaw.
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Therein lies the problem, Jim was so quick to clear out the Phil brigade that he bit of his nose to spite his face. |
No, the problem was, Phil Jackson got swept by the Mavs in the 2nd round, if we got to the finals or even the conference finals, it would've been different. But since he didn't, and if it was actually Phil coaching, they probably would've continued as is. But since it was someone lesser than Phil with no actual head coach experience, it makes sense to go ahead with someone else. |
Mike D'antoni and Mike Brown sound like (bleep) IDIOTS in the interviews.
They can't be all that charming in real life could they?
I really cannot understand why Lakers or any other team ever hired these people.
More inexplicable is the fact that they were hired after they were unceremoniously discharged by the Cavs for Brown and Knicks and MDA. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21499
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | Keeping Bernie would've been preferable to hiring MDA.
It wasn't as if they were taking some chance with Mike Brown and Mike D'antoni, where it could've paid off.
Almost all of the fans and the media knew what we were getting in these guys.
Mike Brown - a defensive coach who wasn't so charismatic or bright (just look at the interviews). Fired by Cleveland.
Mike D'antoni - a redneck who says odd things that don't make any sense who lucked out with Nash then was exposed later in NYC.
It's quite incredible that Lakers hired these guys. I really don't think it's hindsight bias either because at the time of hire, the board was very much negative on the hires. |
Keeping Bernie isn't a choice, he did not want to be the head coach. And the rest was just revisionist history... |
When they asked Bernie why, he said, because "this is Phil's job". |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144466
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | | It's crazy... Transfer everyone on the Clippers to the Lakers minus Chris Paul, and would there be any doubt the Lakers would be the favorites for the title? What does that really say about Chris Paul? |
Yes there would be significant doubts.
Griffin does not seem to be capable of being the #1 player on a chapmpionship contender. |
I'm afraid I wasn't. Clear. Kobe replaces Paul as the #1 player. With supporting cast Kobe would definitely be in the finals. |
Not with a hobbled Kobe they won't.
Kobe is now very old and injured.
It would be very difficult to expect him to come back totally healthy after he's been hobbled for a year. |
We won't have a hobbled Kobe. And Kobe gives the Clips what CP3 and Griffin do not, someone to close out a tough game. Without that player the Clips will be happy with 2nd round playoff losses for the future. At least until CP3's knees give out for good and they are back in the lottery. |
How do you know? Divine revelation?
It is likely that an old injured player who missed a year will likely not be back to pre-injury.
To make any claim to the contrary would require extraordinary evidence. |
I pay attention to what is reported.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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NomisR
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| shnxx wrote: | | NomisR wrote: |
No, the problem was, Phil Jackson got swept by the Mavs in the 2nd round, if we got to the finals or even the conference finals, it would've been different. But since he didn't, and if it was actually Phil coaching, they probably would've continued as is. But since it was someone lesser than Phil with no actual head coach experience, it makes sense to go ahead with someone else. |
Mike D'antoni and Mike Brown sound like (bleep) IDIOTS in the interviews.
They can't be all that charming in real life could they?
I really cannot understand why Lakers or any other team ever hired these people.
More inexplicable is the fact that they were hired after they were unceremoniously discharged by the Cavs for Brown and Knicks and MDA. |
I wouldn't go that far, but LA media's pretty stunted. And after 2 years of dealing with.. Why aren't you Phil Jackson, you either tune them out and give short answered a la Popovich, or talk cryptically like Phil, or sarcasm like Bynum, or basically lash out. If you serious try to answer the questions like the Mikes did, they get their asses handed to them because everything Lakers related is overly scrutinized and news gets made up, overblown, and what not..
As for the hiring of MDA and Brown, .. so are you in favor of the Scott hire? |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Fwiw, ballmer was kind of handed his fortune as well... |
In exchange for labor performed, you mean. |
He had the right friends. He nearly ruined Microsoft with both his strategy and management style. I have several friends inside the company and he was both an internal terror and his monopoly strategy at the price of real innovation was horrible.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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magna (bleep) laude
The swear filter is artificially unintelligent. |
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shnxx
Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| NomisR wrote: | | shnxx wrote: | | NomisR wrote: |
No, the problem was, Phil Jackson got swept by the Mavs in the 2nd round, if we got to the finals or even the conference finals, it would've been different. But since he didn't, and if it was actually Phil coaching, they probably would've continued as is. But since it was someone lesser than Phil with no actual head coach experience, it makes sense to go ahead with someone else. |
Mike D'antoni and Mike Brown sound like (bleep) IDIOTS in the interviews.
They can't be all that charming in real life could they?
I really cannot understand why Lakers or any other team ever hired these people.
More inexplicable is the fact that they were hired after they were unceremoniously discharged by the Cavs for Brown and Knicks and MDA. |
I wouldn't go that far, but LA media's pretty stunted. And after 2 years of dealing with.. Why aren't you Phil Jackson, you either tune them out and give short answered a la Popovich, or talk cryptically like Phil, or sarcasm like Bynum, or basically lash out. If you serious try to answer the questions like the Mikes did, they get their asses handed to them because everything Lakers related is overly scrutinized and news gets made up, overblown, and what not..
As for the hiring of MDA and Brown, .. so are you in favor of the Scott hire? |
I'm not in favor of Scott hire.
His history with Cavs, Hornets and Nets suggest that he tends to underachieve with the exception of the one year when Jason-led Nets made a run in the East.
Granted there aren't many fantastic choices and the team is not going to compete with this roster so it doesn't really matter. |
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