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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8839
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: i wish this buddy buddy era of NBA be over quick |
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from LeBron, to Durant to Melo, Dwight and CP3, seems like there isn't any competitiveness amongst today's stars. either they join teams or shrug their shoulders like hey whatever if got beaten by the other. i can't imagine this kind of attitude would fly during the super competitive 80's and 90's. |
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dubaholic1 Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 3016 Location: Quality over Quantity
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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It's because this current crop of players are from the Millennial Generation, who as a whole are quite happy people, as opposed the Gen X-ers who are chippy and cynical |
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TDRock Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 48595 Location: LA to the Bay
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
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Telleris Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013 Posts: 2371
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
The players don't see the teams like the fans. For them it's all very corporate, i don't care who you are, i care what you have to offer sort of thing.
Social media also makes it basically impossible to keep up personas like in the past, with everything you say or do being dissected a million times.
For example, do you think that Russell and Wilt were actually good friends and always had dinner together could today have escaped the prying eye through a decade long narrative of faux hostility ? Of course not, if anything, the players tend to troll the media by drumming up stuff to watch the snowball. |
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Reflexx Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 11163
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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I think a lot of it is due to stuff like AAU ball. They are discovered pretty early and play with each other since they're young. Of course they start building friendships. |
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Suckmaki Walker Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Dec 2012 Posts: 390
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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More and more the players are realizing they cant be putting their future in the hands of some moron GM or owner try to build a championship team around them. Lebron is the perfect example. The guy spends 7 seasons in a terrible team like the Cavs and at the end the best player they can surround him with is Mo Williams? You think Kobe would still be a Laker today if he were drafted 7 years ago and the best Mitch can do is put Mo Williams next to him?
Look at Kevin Love, do you really think its the best thing for him to stay in Minny for another 7 years? The guy has never made the playoffs due to crappy GM skills and poor drafting. Should Bosh have stayed with the Craptors? And why should he go to some other bum team that is incapable of putting talent around thier players? Because those are the only teams that would most likely have cap room to resign him.
A players loyalty to a team only exists when the team he is on is capable of surrounding him with talent. Magic, Bird and Kobe were all drafted to teams with allstar talent and for most of thier career had good players around them. If they were drafted to some team.
Its easy for people to say "why don't these players try and compete against each other instead of play with each other" but until you have been drafted to a horrible team with horrible management skills you can't really blame them. Not to mention there is a huge financial incentive for winning rings and these playing in larger markets. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38749
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Lebron left his "buddies" high and dry when he realized they couldn't cut it anymore in the NBA Finals...so he found some new friends back home in Cleveland. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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The_Dynasty24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2013 Posts: 2840
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. | That's not true at all. Firstly, people don't remember the specifics of how you won, all history cares about is the fact that you did. Secondly, that is not how this situation was portrayed at all. The image being painted, whether rightly or not is debatable, is that Lebron is returning home and 'saving' Cleveland. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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But make no mistake, he didn't decide to go home until he was sure he wasn't on top in Miami, and mostly because he wants to call the shots on and off court. I bet if he answered you honestly, he'd take 2 rings having run of the place over four under someone else's rules. But he's operating in a climate where he can dump his second team and go form yet a third pile of talent. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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dubaholic1 wrote: | It's because this current crop of players are from the Millennial Generation, who as a whole are quite happy people, as opposed the Gen X-ers who are chippy and cynical |
True in my case for sure. And jonnybravo. Don't even get him started.
Have a nephew 15 and a neice 13. Both are the most serene and unaffected teenagers I've ever seen. My nephew wanted me to taste some kinda green jamba drink he had and I splashed it. I said, "Ah, sorry...," and he goes, "Don't apologize, I'm the one who wanted you to try it." I gave him a hug and said, "You're such a good little sh. Where did you come from?" _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. |
And a 2-fer-5 one. Fans who fight the Kobe Wars needn't worry about Bron annnny more. That's all they gotta bring up. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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Telleris Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013 Posts: 2371
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:01 am Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. |
And a 2-fer-5 one. Fans who fight the Kobe Wars needn't worry about Bron annnny more. That's all they gotta bring up. |
The peculiar logic of the nba stan is that losing in the finals is worse than not making it to the finals. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Telleris wrote: |
The peculiar logic of the nba stan is that losing in the finals is worse than not making it to the finals. |
Fans find it easier to gauge a player's mettle, especially in head-to-head debates, by what Guy X does in the Finals. No one beats Kobe up for losing in the Semis in 2003 like they do for what happened in the Finals in 2004. Players who never made it to the Finals are dismissed as well (Nique, TMac, Vince), but that's an assessment based on their entire career. Well...no one ever said the internets were full of Jerry Wests. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:25 am Post subject: |
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I think the tone may change after the next CBA negotiations. Players have to take paycuts to play for a team while owners get cheap labor. That will sober up the "buddy system" real quick. I think lebron may be an anomoly, but with Durant's major deal, there may be a time where the income derived from the team is dwarfed by endorsements so players can willingly take less from a team and allow a superteam to be formed. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. |
And a 2-fer-5 one. Fans who fight the Kobe Wars needn't worry about Bron annnny more. That's all they gotta bring up. |
Yep. Ultimately, LBJ grew up a lot to win his rings, but mentally, he's just not in the Kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic/Isiah conversation. Never will be. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. |
And a 2-fer-5 one. Fans who fight the Kobe Wars needn't worry about Bron annnny more. That's all they gotta bring up. |
Yep. Ultimately, LBJ grew up a lot to win his rings, but mentally, he's just not in the Kobe/MJ/Bird/Magic/Isiah conversation. Never will be. |
I agree. I started hating him (post-Decision) but had to begrudgingly accept the fact he's an all-time great (I have him in the top 10 all time, and getting there was a major mental hurdle for me).
But his legacy won't be one of a killer assassin ala Kobe/MJ et. al. I think he's just a crazy amalgamation of a lot of great players' games wrapped up into a tank-built body. It's just such a unique player he has become and he now has the rings to enter the conversation. I do think that ultimately, all of his jumping off the sinking ships will hurt his climb to the top of the top echelon. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | dubaholic1 wrote: | It's because this current crop of players are from the Millennial Generation, who as a whole are quite happy people, as opposed the Gen X-ers who are chippy and cynical |
True in my case for sure. And jonnybravo. Don't even get him started.
Have a nephew 15 and a neice 13. Both are the most serene and unaffected teenagers I've ever seen. My nephew wanted me to taste some kinda green jamba drink he had and I splashed it. I said, "Ah, sorry...," and he goes, "Don't apologize, I'm the one who wanted you to try it." I gave him a hug and said, "You're such a good little sh. Where did you come from?" |
Awesome kid. Great story - warms the heart it does. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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I think part of why we see this is the total access of the NBA and off the court money. Due to league pass and NBA TV, you can play in Toronto and be seen, while back in the day we used to get NBA games on Sunday only. We now watch games 7 days a week. And the off the court money is huge for the stars and go for those who aren't. If I am Lebron, why worry about getting $15 mil where I can compete instead of $20 mil where I won't when I know I am making $80 mil off the court? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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kwase Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 3069
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Kobe and Duncan are the last of that generation of tough-minded men. This new generation is full of a bunch of softies that had everything handed to them their entire lives. Just look at the way they dress and that'll tell you all you need to know! |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I think part of why we see this is the total access of the NBA and off the court money. Due to league pass and NBA TV, you can play in Toronto and be seen, while back in the day we used to get NBA games on Sunday only. We now watch games 7 days a week. And the off the court money is huge for the stars and go for those who aren't. If I am Lebron, why worry about getting $15 mil where I can compete instead of $20 mil where I won't when I know I am making $80 mil off the court? |
Agreed. Endorsement totals now dwarf salaries for most of the top players. So "shaving" off 4-5m a year isn't going to kill them anymore as compared to the old school days where endorsements were nowhere near what they are now.
Will be interesting. Gives guys like Durant even more freedom to pick freely when he's a free agent. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Kobe>Lebron Star Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2002 Posts: 3571
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Telleris wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | TDRock wrote: | ^ interesting theory.
Anyway I think it will die soon because there aren't really *that* many "buddies" in the NBA, and IMO LeBron showed that no matter what comes out of people's mouths the buddy system does not equal any kind of long term loyalty. |
Speaking of LeBron. I think he's shot himself in the foot. No matter how many rings he wins, he'll be looked at as a ring chaser who took his ball home whenever the going got tough. |
And a 2-fer-5 one. Fans who fight the Kobe Wars needn't worry about Bron annnny more. That's all they gotta bring up. |
The peculiar logic of the nba stan is that losing in the finals is worse than not making it to the finals. |
Kobe lost in the Finals in 2008 to the Celtics. Looking back at a photo of the Lakers 2008 roster and it was almost laughable considering he was going up against Garnet, Pierce, Allen and Rondo. When we compare that to Brons finals losses with the Heat stacked roster it just doesnt compare. _________________ "I was laying myself on the line by saying, if this doesn't work in three to four years, if we're not back on the top then I will step down because that means I have failed,"
Jim Buss (2013) |
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Kobe>Lebron Star Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2002 Posts: 3571
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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As much as it pains me to say it, Lebron would have undoubtedely been the GOAT if he had paired that Secretariat body with a Kobe MJ brain. _________________ "I was laying myself on the line by saying, if this doesn't work in three to four years, if we're not back on the top then I will step down because that means I have failed,"
Jim Buss (2013) |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe>Lebron wrote: | As much as it pains me to say it, Lebron would have undoubtedely been the GOAT if he had paired that Secretariat body with a Kobe MJ brain. |
As a wing, yes, but I don't think you can really compare bigs v. wings although if I have my way, I'd take a great wing over a great big because they don't need anyone to get them the ball in position to score. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: i wish this buddy buddy era of NBA be over quick |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | from LeBron, to Durant to Melo, Dwight and CP3, seems like there isn't any competitiveness amongst today's stars. either they join teams or shrug their shoulders like hey whatever if got beaten by the other. i can't imagine this kind of attitude would fly during the super competitive 80's and 90's. |
I don't think what's happening is new. Stars have always wanted to be surrounded by great talent. And guys we think of as hyper competitive (Bird and Magic) were surrounded by super teams and were happy to add former MVPs (Walton and McAdoo) when they had the chance.
I think there are two main differences:
1. Players are just as competitive now, but they aren't as hung up on the notion of rivalries with specific teams/individuals as they were in the past.
2. Players don't feel a need to keep up the pretense that they care what team they're playing for. They might care about relationships they have with specific players or coaches, say, but one jersey is as good as another.
And with social media, players now position themselves as individual corporations or brands more easily. We're starting to see that players lease their services to a particular team for a set amount of time, but each player is really his own corporation that is apart from the team as well. |
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