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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Sako32 wrote: | Is Derrick Rose on their top 10 point guards? I really don't think he belongs on it if Kobe isn't on the top SGs list. |
It's just a list based on a dopey formula that penalizes older players and players who were injured last season. So Rose, Tony Parker and Rondo are outside the top 10 too. |
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doughboy90650 Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 15294 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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ESPN did what they wanted to do. Push a button and get people talking about them. And it constantly works. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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doughboy90650 wrote: | ESPN did what they wanted to do. Push a button and get people talking about them. And it constantly works. |
For stupid people, you mean. If it's a statistical evaluation based on the previous season there's no controversy. He doesn't belong. |
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ducasse Star Player
Joined: 05 Sep 2002 Posts: 8125
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Sako32 wrote: | Is Derrick Rose on their top 10 point guards? I really don't think he belongs on it if Kobe isn't on the top SGs list. |
It's just a list based on a dopey formula that penalizes older players and players who were injured last season. So Rose, Tony Parker and Rondo are outside the top 10 too. |
Tony Parker is only 31, played 68 games last year and was an all star. How exactly does he get knocked out of the top 10?
So the Spurs beat Lebron, Wade, and Bosh with a 37 year old center who is no longer all star caliber, a PG who isn't top 10, and no other all star on their team. LOL. |
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doughboy90650 Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 15294 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | doughboy90650 wrote: | ESPN did what they wanted to do. Push a button and get people talking about them. And it constantly works. |
For stupid people, you mean. If it's a statistical evaluation based on the previous season there's no controversy. He doesn't belong. |
I definitely concur. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54519
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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All of that will change once the season gets into full throttle. |
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Shaber Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 3731 Location: The other side
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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ducasse wrote: |
So the Spurs beat Lebron, Wade, and Bosh with a 37 year old center who is no longer all star caliber, a PG who isn't top 10, and no other all star on their team. LOL. |
Proves that basketball is a team sport.
And the best (?) coach can do it for you (pointing finger to the Lakers office). _________________ .
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan
Last edited by Shaber on Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Telleris Star Player
Joined: 28 May 2013 Posts: 2371
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:39 am Post subject: |
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70sdude wrote: | If performance in the prior season and player age are primary drivers to their "top ten" formula, it seems they may have a case for placing Kobe - at his age - outside the top ten.
If they're using more than one season's history, hmmm, it's rather a much stronger case to include our guy, but it's no slam dunk. Two consecutive years of leg and foot and knee injuries; that should weigh heavily in any analysis of a player's future. Too close to dispute. Let's also recall that ESPN is in the business of generating revenue, and what better way to do that than to weave in obvious hot omissions from any predictions. It's a self-regenerating force, creating hits and ad revenue and viewers, and keeping ESPN on everyone's mind. |
The age thing imo needs softening (at the old end at least), that's my main gripe anyway, because with medical technology improvements, historical aging curves are too pessimistic |
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LakersMDGurl Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 18015
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. _________________ New Beginings |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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LakersMDGurl wrote: | Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. |
You do realize that's kinda what we DO here don't you, at least for the half of us who are Kobe first fans! _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:56 am Post subject: |
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LakersMDGurl wrote: | Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. |
Well said. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:00 am Post subject: |
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zePokar wrote: | LakersMDGurl wrote: | Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. |
Well said. |
It's a flawed methodology IMO, but it's what they used. So the cries of "ESPN hates the Lakers" is a bit far-fetched. Do they love to dance on the grave so to speak? Sure. Do they punch teams like the Lakers when they're down? Absolutely. But this particular ratings, which I disagree with, is based on their projected WARP theory. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I just don't see how you can rank Kobe right now. |
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dmills Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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singlecamVTEC wrote: | jenopogi wrote: | singlecamVTEC wrote: | I don't really mind that Kobe isn't on this list. He pretty much didn't play last season to even be ranked.. Not sure why some of you are upset about it. |
i get you if they are consistent. DRose was in the PG List when he did not play last season.
It's Ok though, ESPN is due for a rude awakening when the season starts. I am excited to see how they backpedal from pre-season banters. |
Thing is, OP just provided a screenshot of the list. The list could be.. "Based on stats from 13-14 season, here's how the Top SG's stack up for next season"
Or maybe it's based off opinion from one of the writers there. Etc etc. All in all, ESPN is always like this lol. They've never liked the Lakers/Kobe. Yet their articles/lists/ratings/etc. continues to be posted here.
Either way, I've been ignoring ESPN for the longest time now. Just a small rant from me is all. Carry on. |
Its a prognostication based off of projected warp.
At any rate, whatev... Nothing new here. Carry on I say. _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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dmills Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:39 am Post subject: |
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LakersMDGurl wrote: | Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. |
Um, what? His words...
Quote: | As for Bryant, his playing-time forecast is predictably suppressed, but even if it weren't, his projected winning percentage would just barely get him into the top 10.
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That tells me (unless I'm missing something) that based on his projections, even if Kobe were 100% healthy and playing his usual minutes he'd barely crack the top 10. _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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LakersMDGurl Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 18015
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
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dmills wrote: | LakersMDGurl wrote: | Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. |
Um, what? His words...
Quote: | As for Bryant, his playing-time forecast is predictably suppressed, but even if it weren't, his projected winning percentage would just barely get him into the top 10.
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That tells me (unless I'm missing something) that based on his projections, even if Kobe were 100% healthy and playing his usual minutes he'd barely crack the top 10. |
All this is pretty much because they really do not think the Lakers or Kobe can do crap this season. Again, I could care less what they think. LeBron is their poster boy, they will continue to diss any one they feel is a threat. The only reason they do diss Durant is that he is too nice. Kobe is an easier target IMO; injuries, age and his "f****-you attitude". _________________ New Beginings |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | doughboy90650 wrote: | ESPN did what they wanted to do. Push a button and get people talking about them. And it constantly works. |
For stupid people, you mean. If it's a statistical evaluation based on the previous season there's no controversy. He doesn't belong. |
Fundamentally, the controversy is over the statistical system they choose to use. Personally, if I was at ESPN, and I saw the rankings that the formula was spitting out, I'd pause and say, "Is this really a good statistical evaluation to use?" |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | greenfrog wrote: | doughboy90650 wrote: | ESPN did what they wanted to do. Push a button and get people talking about them. And it constantly works. |
For stupid people, you mean. If it's a statistical evaluation based on the previous season there's no controversy. He doesn't belong. |
Fundamentally, the controversy is over the statistical system they choose to use. Personally, if I was at ESPN, and I saw the rankings that the formula was spitting out, I'd pause and say, "Is this really a good statistical evaluation to use?" |
Yup. You could use a number of statistical prisms and come out with different results. If you used PER for example, a different group of 10 IMO. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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dmills Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005 Posts: 3711
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:31 am Post subject: |
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LakersMDGurl wrote: | dmills wrote: | LakersMDGurl wrote: | Folks need to stop being butt hurt about how ESPN 'disrespects" Kobe. They are not the Lakers, Kobe has hardly played the last two years, they are not going to rate him based on what he has done in the past. These ratings are for guys who played last season. If Kobe comes in and plays like the Kobe we know and still gets dissed, then we can say something.
Until I see Kobe play again, I could care less what they say. |
Um, what? His words...
Quote: | As for Bryant, his playing-time forecast is predictably suppressed, but even if it weren't, his projected winning percentage would just barely get him into the top 10.
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That tells me (unless I'm missing something) that based on his projections, even if Kobe were 100% healthy and playing his usual minutes he'd barely crack the top 10. |
All this is pretty much because they really do not think the Lakers or Kobe can do crap this season. Again, I could care less what they think. LeBron is their poster boy, they will continue to diss any one they feel is a threat. The only reason they do diss Durant is that he is too nice. Kobe is an easier target IMO; injuries, age and his "f****-you attitude". |
True dat. Although I do think that Russell Westbrook, not necessarily KD, is the new ESPN (read stat geeks) pariah. But it was BS how some writers over there essentially tried to sale the storyline that KD only won the MVP due to voter fatigue with LBJ as opposed to outright earning it. That's BS. Dude straight up took the MVP and was clearly the best player in the league last season. _________________ A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless. |
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KingKobe20 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 18577 Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Can't find a box score on the USA vs Slovenia game but James Harden's shooting selection is soo garbage. He's like 3-18 from the field. Not forgetting the fact that Slovenia has the worst ranked defense in Fiba. LoL
How in Gods world do people actually think he's the best 2 guard? _________________ "Tryin' to get that Kobe number, One Over Jordan"
-Kanye
aka ILLWiLL20
R.I.P PHIL |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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KingKobe20 wrote: | Can't find a box score on the USA vs Slovenia game but James Harden's shooting selection is soo garbage. He's like 3-18 from the field. Not forgetting the fact that Slovenia has the worst ranked defense in Fiba. LoL
How in Gods world do people actually think he's the best 2 guard? |
Because they are using a statistical slant that proves their assumption that Harden is the best 2 guard. Also, speaks to just how weak the 2 guard position has become. It's the SF world right now. At one point you had prime Kobe and Wade as the 1-2 shooting guards. Even at their respective ages (and injuries) they're still in the mix for top 5-6 SGs. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ppineda Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Aug 2003 Posts: 701
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Peoples Hernandez wrote: | Vancouver Fan wrote: | Bulletin board material. Shock the world. Gunning for that #1 spot. |
I've gone on record as saying that Kobe is the most universally disliked all-time great in any sport ever. The complete opposite of Jordan in terms of likeability. This article further proves my point. |
Disliked by whom? The media? fans?
Bill Lambier, A-Rod, Ron Artest, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong. Mayweather. All more hated... And that's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are lots of thug hockey enforcers that are even more hated than them (I don't watch hockey)... And does OJ Simpson count?
Fans hate LeBron a whole lot more than Kobe. Everyone rooted against that guy ever since he became a heat.
The only thing I see is that Kobe fans are the most sensitive fans of any superstar in any sport, ever. If you don't say he's the best, GOAT, or he will be #1 in the NBA coming off of a devestating injury and not really playing for two years... You are a hater. The commentary here proves my point. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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ppineda wrote: | Peoples Hernandez wrote: | Vancouver Fan wrote: | Bulletin board material. Shock the world. Gunning for that #1 spot. |
I've gone on record as saying that Kobe is the most universally disliked all-time great in any sport ever. The complete opposite of Jordan in terms of likeability. This article further proves my point. |
Disliked by whom? The media? fans?
Bill Lambier, A-Rod, Ron Artest, Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong. Mayweather. All more hated... And that's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are lots of thug hockey enforcers that are even more hated than them (I don't watch hockey)... And does OJ Simpson count?
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I would add Pete Rose to that list. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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teebone Sixth Man
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 93
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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If ESPN is going to base this list entirely off of last years stats, then aren't they just listing the top 10 shooting guards of 2013-2014? 1. Last year is done with and 2. unlike last year where they ranked Kobe 25th, he's healthy and is expected to play in the first game. This list is flat out disrespectful. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: |
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teebone wrote: | If ESPN is going to base this list entirely off of last years stats, then aren't they just listing the top 10 shooting guards of 2013-2014? 1. Last year is done with and 2. unlike last year where they ranked Kobe 25th, he's healthy and is expected to play in the first game. This list is flat out disrespectful. |
So is Steve Nash. |
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