View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
GrimjowwLA Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2012 Posts: 183
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
GrimjowwLA wrote: | James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
That is true, but neither could Kobe.
Again, I think ESPN is too overly reliant on the stats guys when coming up these lists. I believe they used projected WARP as the basis and since Kobe/DRose didn't play they basically gave up predicting for them. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 22801
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Is this the basketball version of war? The per is getting old so we have to have a new system? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jeggs Star Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2013 Posts: 1659
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I kind of wonder where they put MJ in the top SG list when he was playing with the wizards. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JoJo Dancer Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 7474
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | GrimjowwLA wrote: | James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
That is true, but neither could Kobe.
. |
Bad comparison. According to ESPN rankings Harden couldn't get past the 1st Rd. with the #1 center and # 10 SF. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wino Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
oldschool32 wrote: | thejet24 wrote: | The most disrespected basketball player of all time |
Basically.
I have my doubts that Kobe will come back and play like he use to, but I'm fairly sure he should be on that list. |
What I have to ask everyone in America is, if Jordan was in the same situation as Kobe would ESPN have left him off this list??
Do I have to tell you what the answer is??
What is amazing to me is how much they had Jordans nuts covered, yet manage to disrespect Kobe at every turn.
F ESPN! They are absolutely horrible people. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Steve007 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Posts: 13165
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
GrimjowwLA wrote: | James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
I'm not thrilled about defending Harden here but getting past the first round of the West was harder than making the conference finals in the East. Even the Spurs who played the lowest seed in the West needed 7 games to beat Dallas. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
67ShelbyGT Star Player
Joined: 11 May 2008 Posts: 4048
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ESPN's mission in bball is just 2 major company-wide themes... and all analysts have to regurgitate the same bs or get fired (why do you think they are all (bleep) and sound the exact same). Simply put:
(1) We invested heavy in LBJ since Junior HS. So now we will shove him down your throat whether you like it or not. We will dis-spell every credible criticism of LBJ into oblivion. We will also belittle any credible threat to him. Threat #1 is and always has been Kobe.
(2) Lakers have a HUUUGE fanbase. But they also have the biggest Hate-Base too. Lets troll Lakers in very other article so we can get all the Laker fans riled up and click... while ALSO getting the HQ of Laker-Hate, New England (Bristol, CT hello!) nut base riled up and click... SEE all the Celdicks we hire like the mouthpiece Bill Simmons.
Thats it. Easy as that. Thats their MO. Kobe happen to violate both #1 and #2. Its killing 2 birds with one stone. _________________ Alltime lineup: Magic | Kobe | MJ | Hakeem | KAJ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Variant Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 1014 Location: Loma Linda, CA
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wino wrote: | oldschool32 wrote: | thejet24 wrote: | The most disrespected basketball player of all time |
Basically.
I have my doubts that Kobe will come back and play like he use to, but I'm fairly sure he should be on that list. |
What I have to ask everyone in America is, if Jordan was in the same situation as Kobe would ESPN have left him off this list??
Do I have to tell you what the answer is??
What is amazing to me is how much they had Jordans nuts covered, yet manage to disrespect Kobe at every turn.
F ESPN! They are absolutely horrible people. |
It does seem strange that Kobe is not on the list (and man, how weak is the SG position these days?), but if Jordan's body began breaking down as it seems Kobe's may be, I have no doubt there would have been some doubts about him too. Jordan was just so durable even into his 40's that the same scenario just never came up. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
singlecamVTEC Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 1473
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't really mind that Kobe isn't on this list. He pretty much didn't play last season to even be ranked.. Not sure why some of you are upset about it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jenopogi Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Jul 2014 Posts: 253
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
singlecamVTEC wrote: | I don't really mind that Kobe isn't on this list. He pretty much didn't play last season to even be ranked.. Not sure why some of you are upset about it. |
i get you if they are consistent. DRose was in the PG List when he did not play last season.
It's Ok though, ESPN is due for a rude awakening when the season starts. I am excited to see how they backpedal from pre-season banters. _________________ JL#7 in Purple and Gold. Shoutout to my Lakers4Life Buddy Ian M. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
singlecamVTEC Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 1473
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jenopogi wrote: | singlecamVTEC wrote: | I don't really mind that Kobe isn't on this list. He pretty much didn't play last season to even be ranked.. Not sure why some of you are upset about it. |
i get you if they are consistent. DRose was in the PG List when he did not play last season.
It's Ok though, ESPN is due for a rude awakening when the season starts. I am excited to see how they backpedal from pre-season banters. |
Thing is, OP just provided a screenshot of the list. The list could be.. "Based on stats from 13-14 season, here's how the Top SG's stack up for next season"
Or maybe it's based off opinion from one of the writers there. Etc etc. All in all, ESPN is always like this lol. They've never liked the Lakers/Kobe. Yet their articles/lists/ratings/etc. continues to be posted here.
Either way, I've been ignoring ESPN for the longest time now. Just a small rant from me is all. Carry on. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
THE_TWELFTH Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 733 Location: Los Angeles, CA.
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Variant wrote: | Wino wrote: | oldschool32 wrote: | thejet24 wrote: | The most disrespected basketball player of all time |
Basically.
I have my doubts that Kobe will come back and play like he use to, but I'm fairly sure he should be on that list. |
What I have to ask everyone in America is, if Jordan was in the same situation as Kobe would ESPN have left him off this list??
Do I have to tell you what the answer is??
What is amazing to me is how much they had Jordans nuts covered, yet manage to disrespect Kobe at every turn.
F ESPN! They are absolutely horrible people. |
It does seem strange that Kobe is not on the list (and man, how weak is the SG position these days?), but if Jordan's body began breaking down as it seems Kobe's may be, I have no doubt there would have been some doubts about him too. Jordan was just so durable even into his 40's that the same scenario just never came up. |
He is on the list... He's listed as #11. _________________ Blood, sweat, tears,
We dripped all three just to get here.
No longer will I wake up and my dreams just vanished.
It’s staring right at me, I must take advantage.
Juelz Santana - "The Second Coming" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Looking at that list, the SG position is really weak. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23753
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Peoples Hernandez wrote: | Vancouver Fan wrote: | Bulletin board material. Shock the world. Gunning for that #1 spot. |
I've gone on record as saying that Kobe is the most universally disliked all-time great in any sport ever. The complete opposite of Jordan in terms of likeability. This article further proves my point. |
He's probably the most universally loved, too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
eddiejonze Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 7192
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
THE_TWELFTH wrote: | Variant wrote: | Wino wrote: | oldschool32 wrote: | thejet24 wrote: | The most disrespected basketball player of all time |
Basically.
I have my doubts that Kobe will come back and play like he use to, but I'm fairly sure he should be on that list. |
What I have to ask everyone in America is, if Jordan was in the same situation as Kobe would ESPN have left him off this list??
Do I have to tell you what the answer is??
What is amazing to me is how much they had Jordans nuts covered, yet manage to disrespect Kobe at every turn.
F ESPN! They are absolutely horrible people. |
It does seem strange that Kobe is not on the list (and man, how weak is the SG position these days?), but if Jordan's body began breaking down as it seems Kobe's may be, I have no doubt there would have been some doubts about him too. Jordan was just so durable even into his 40's that the same scenario just never came up. |
He is on the list... He's listed as #11. |
but but but kobe raped a girl ! _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GrimjowwLA Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2012 Posts: 183
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JoJo Dancer wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | GrimjowwLA wrote: | James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
That is true, but neither could Kobe.
. |
Bad comparison. According to ESPN rankings Harden couldn't get past the 1st Rd. with the #1 center and # 10 SF. |
True. Kobe coudnt get his team past 1st round since he had no one to rely on to. Harden had Dwight , Parsons , Lin , Beverly lol but still couldnt do it |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lonlyamongus Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Aug 2014 Posts: 35
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
GrimjowwLA wrote: | JoJo Dancer wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | GrimjowwLA wrote: | James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
That is true, but neither could Kobe.
. |
Bad comparison. According to ESPN rankings Harden couldn't get past the 1st Rd. with the #1 center and # 10 SF. |
True. Kobe coudnt get his team past 1st round since he had no one to rely on to. Harden had Dwight , Parsons , Lin , Beverly lol but still couldnt do it |
Harden shoot 6 times more per game in the Playoffs, and shoot about 10% worse in the playoffs. Rocket had no real coach, (taking care of business Mchale doesn't count, he don't even know what business is he taking care of.) And Harden also happen to be the SG and PG on offense. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shaber Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 3731 Location: The other side
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JoJo Dancer wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | GrimjowwLA wrote: | James Harden on 1st place who couldnt even get his team past the 1st round of the playoffs.. LOL |
That is true, but neither could Kobe.
. |
Bad comparison. According to ESPN rankings Harden couldn't get past the 1st Rd. with the #1 center and # 10 SF. |
Might not be Hardens fault. Could be bad coaching. You can't blame a single player for a team failure. Or success. _________________ .
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wino Star Player
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
eddiejonze wrote: | THE_TWELFTH wrote: | Variant wrote: | Wino wrote: | oldschool32 wrote: | thejet24 wrote: | The most disrespected basketball player of all time |
Basically.
I have my doubts that Kobe will come back and play like he use to, but I'm fairly sure he should be on that list. |
What I have to ask everyone in America is, if Jordan was in the same situation as Kobe would ESPN have left him off this list??
Do I have to tell you what the answer is??
What is amazing to me is how much they had Jordans nuts covered, yet manage to disrespect Kobe at every turn.
F ESPN! They are absolutely horrible people. |
It does seem strange that Kobe is not on the list (and man, how weak is the SG position these days?), but if Jordan's body began breaking down as it seems Kobe's may be, I have no doubt there would have been some doubts about him too. Jordan was just so durable even into his 40's that the same scenario just never came up. |
He is on the list... He's listed as #11. |
but but but kobe sexual assaulted a girl ! |
Bingo! _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
KendrickLamar wrote: | dmorans1 wrote: | So DeRozan is not on the SG or the SF list. This guy is the most underrated guy in the NBA. Lowry gets all the love in TOR while no one noticed how DeRozan jumped from an average player to a stud while having the highest usage rating on that team. |
I'm from TDOT and everyone here knows just how important of a piece Derozan has been and how much he has improved throughout the years. Lowry is shown a lot of love, i agree but don't get it wrong Derozan gets love as well respect is given where it is deserved and both those players deserve it. |
Coach K obviously noticed as DeRozan made the USA Team. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
|
Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001 Posts: 47565
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
ducasse wrote: | cheetos82 wrote: | The entire list:
PG:
1. Chris Paul, Los Angeles Clippers
2. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder
3. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
4. John Wall, Washington Wizards
5. Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers
6. Kyle Lowry, Toronto Raptors
7. Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers
8. Mike Conley, Memphis Grizzlies
9. Ricky Rubio, Minnesota Timberwolves
10. Ty Lawson, Denver Nuggets |
Tony Parker is not a top 10 PG anymore? |
LMAO, Tony Parker not on the list and Rubio is? Right there this "list" should be printed out on toilet paper and passed out at gas station bathrooms. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny |
|
Back to top |
|
|
70sdude Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 4567
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
If performance in the prior season and player age are primary drivers to their "top ten" formula, it seems they may have a case for placing Kobe - at his age - outside the top ten.
If they're using more than one season's history, hmmm, it's rather a much stronger case to include our guy, but it's no slam dunk. Two consecutive years of leg and foot and knee injuries; that should weigh heavily in any analysis of a player's future. Too close to dispute. Let's also recall that ESPN is in the business of generating revenue, and what better way to do that than to weave in obvious hot omissions from any predictions. It's a self-regenerating force, creating hits and ad revenue and viewers, and keeping ESPN on everyone's mind. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Illusions Johnson Rookie
Joined: 15 Jul 2014 Posts: 18
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here is their ranking methodology:
"The annual offseason position rankings offer a snapshot of the top players in the league by base position, according to the forecast quantity and quality of performance for the coming season. Players are ranked by wins above replacement player (WARP), an estimate of the number of wins a player adds to a team's bottom line above what would be expected of any easily acquired talent from outside the NBA. Players are measured for usage and efficiency on both ends of the floor, and these ratings are converted to an individual winning percentage. From there, WARP is calculated based on the player's winning percentage and forecast playing time for the coming season. Playing-time projections are based on recent seasons, health and role on the player's current team. Players are assigned a position according to where they appeared most often in their most recent NBA season, though subjective adjustments have been made for some players based on anticipated usage in 2014-15.
The underlying methodology of calculating the player efficiencies used in these rankings has changed since last year and now relies on real plus-minus methodology, with adjustments. Each player's offensive and defensive RPM is converted to efficiency ratings for each end of the floor. Those ratings are then evaluated for "direct" and "indirect" impact. Direct impact is composed of points scored and possessions used, as calculated from traditional box scores. Indirect impact uses RPM to evaluate how a player affects the possessions finished by his teammates while he's on the floor. RPM has been split in this manner for a couple of reasons. First, indirect impact has a higher season-to-season correlation and is less affected by player aging patterns. Also, splitting direct impact and indirect impact is useful for projecting how players will perform in new environments and in calculating team projections. For first-year NBA players, their SCHOENE projection is used as their WARP projection in these rankings." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23753
|
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've said it before, I'll say it again, for people who think the predictions for Kobe and the Lakers are unfair, go to Vegas and make them pay for it. Complaining on here won't help the pocketbook.
They ranked him 25th last year and people got all bent out of shape and he ended up getting hurt again and playing only 6 games. Based on his age and health, people were expecting things to go wrong last year and they were right. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|