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Rivershow
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 Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| What being an elite scorer means to Kobe and means to his fans aren't necessarily the same. I don't think I've personally seen Kobe say that he has to be at a superstar going for a scoring record for him to not retire. Obviously fans of kobe's will more embellish than what Kobe himself has in his mind. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | What being an elite scorer means to Kobe and means to his fans aren't necessarily the same. I don't think I've personally seen Kobe say that he has to be at a superstar going for a scoring record for him to not retire. Obviously fans of kobe's will more embellish than what Kobe himself has in his mind. |
That's fair. But the person I was replying to, referred to elite as being at a superstar caliber level. Not at a Rudy Gay level. Wouldn't you agree that's what he was asserting? (He was the one who said "most elite skilled scorer").
And that's the post I commented on before you jumped in. Just giving you some context. I do realize that everyone has a different definition of elite and for some it means superstars and for others it might mean we're all elite as humans or something.
I was disagreeing that Kobe will walk away if he can't perform at the level of elite that he was referring to. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Interesting tidbit from Chris Ballard's article (that weren't included in the official article):
| Quote: | | In preparing for this season Bryant told friends that the player her is analyzing as an example of adjusting your game as you get older is fellow 36-year-old Paul Pierce. This is part of his goal to become more efficient on the court. |
This should pretty much tell you that Kobe isn't going to be playing 35mpg and gunning for 30 points every night. He's going to rightfully pace himself and Scott will make sure he does.
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dakidblu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting tidbit from Chris Ballard's article (that weren't included in the official article):
| Quote: | | In preparing for this season Bryant told friends that the player her is analyzing as an example of adjusting your game as you get older is fellow 36-year-old Paul Pierce. This is part of his goal to become more efficient on the court. |
This should pretty much tell you that Kobe isn't going to be playing 35mpg and gunning for 30 points every night. He's going to rightfully pace himself and Scott will make sure he does. |
Lol or that he just needs to be more efficient with his loss of athleticism and speed. He already said hes not staying around if hes not elite kobe level of play. Hes not gonna play and only average 20 points like some of you people think. And the lowest minutes i can see kobe going for is 34 ala 2011. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| dakidblu wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting tidbit from Chris Ballard's article (that weren't included in the official article):
| Quote: | | In preparing for this season Bryant told friends that the player her is analyzing as an example of adjusting your game as you get older is fellow 36-year-old Paul Pierce. This is part of his goal to become more efficient on the court. |
This should pretty much tell you that Kobe isn't going to be playing 35mpg and gunning for 30 points every night. He's going to rightfully pace himself and Scott will make sure he does. |
Lol or that he just needs to be more efficient with his loss of athleticism and speed. He already said hes not staying around if hes not elite kobe level of play. Hes not gonna play and only average 20 points like some of you people think. And the lowest minutes i can see kobe going for is 34 ala 2011. |
Kobe isn't walking away from nearly $50m so he knows it's I his interest to stay healthy. Interesting he is studying Paul pierce who has really taken it easy the past years.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Pierce was hardly anything special last season. He only played 28 minutes per for one thing. This is oddly setting the bar very low. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Interesting tidbit from Chris Ballard's article (that weren't included in the official article):
| Quote: | | In preparing for this season Bryant told friends that the player her is analyzing as an example of adjusting your game as you get older is fellow 36-year-old Paul Pierce. This is part of his goal to become more efficient on the court. |
This should pretty much tell you that Kobe isn't going to be playing 35mpg and gunning for 30 points every night. He's going to rightfully pace himself and Scott will make sure he does. |
I don't know that at all. It might just as well mean that Kobe recognizes that PP has been an elite scorer without nearly having Kobe's athleticism and figures that he is planning on being better than PP ever was in case his athleticism doesn't return.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years...
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years... |
Yep
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years... |
How does that make any sense? First, Pierce's game to begin with, wasn't predictated on athleticism. Second, during the 2008-10 era, Pierce was 30-32, and still in the end of his prime. So Kobe is going to model or adapt his game to fit Pierce's end of prime level basketball?
I think you're looking a bit too much into the quote. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I know Kobe respects Pierce, and will look to lessons learned from Pierce as he aged (32 y.o. and beyond) where his overall minutes were reduced and his field goal attempts decreased. Pierce plays a lot more methodical now with his decreased athleticism.
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years... |
That's still "only" about 20 ppg. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years... |
That's still "only" about 20 ppg. |
Technically, 18-19 ppg range on about 13 shots per game. I heard from people here on LG that Kobe would retire if he sunk that low. 
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years... |
How does that make any sense? First, Pierce's game to begin with, wasn't predictated on athleticism. Second, during the 2008-10 era, Pierce was 30-32, and still in the end of his prime. So Kobe is going to model or adapt his game to fit Pierce's end of prime level basketball?
I think you're looking a bit too much into the quote. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I know Kobe respects Pierce, and will look to lessons learned from Pierce as he aged (32 y.o. and beyond) where his overall minutes were reduced and his field goal attempts decreased. Pierce plays a lot more methodical now with his decreased athleticism. |
The issue here is, and I'm not saying 24 is one of these people, that too many people here tie Kobe's greatness–and by extension the greatness of other players–to the PPG stat. So they apparently aren't willing to accept anything less than elite PPG. There's much more to being an effective basketball player than putting up 25 PPG, and I think Kobe is smart enough to know that. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I don't think Kobe is necessarily looking at pierce last year, but around the finals years... |
How does that make any sense? First, Pierce's game to begin with, wasn't predictated on athleticism. Second, during the 2008-10 era, Pierce was 30-32, and still in the end of his prime. So Kobe is going to model or adapt his game to fit Pierce's end of prime level basketball?
I think you're looking a bit too much into the quote. I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I know Kobe respects Pierce, and will look to lessons learned from Pierce as he aged (32 y.o. and beyond) where his overall minutes were reduced and his field goal attempts decreased. Pierce plays a lot more methodical now with his decreased athleticism. |
The issue here is, and I'm not saying 24 is one of these people, that too many people here tie Kobe's greatness–and by extension the greatness of other players–to the PPG stat. So they apparently aren't willing to accept anything less than elite PPG. There's much more to being an effective basketball player than putting up 25 PPG, and I think Kobe is smart enough to know that. |
That's what I've been trying to say too. Unfortunately it's met with the "hater" tag when I truly think this is the final evolution of Kobe. When I read his comments about Pierce, I really felt much better about Kobe the next 2 seasons. He's going to pace himself and they finally got a coach who can help to that end.
Seeing Kobe shoot 25 shots a game and trying to hit 25-27 ppg will be a futile effort that will only wear him down. I want to see a healthy Kobe go out on his own terms, not as a result of excessive wear and tear.
Kobe to me, has already proved his greatness. He has nothing further to prove to me. I just want him to end his career on a right note (of course championship contention would be best, but it's hard to see that happening).
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | It's not like minutes restrictions of these kind are usually absolute (unless its specifically injury management). It's a round number for a period, it's not as though Pop goes, ooo, 30 minutes are up, time to come off. He's not going to pull him out of a close game, but he probably will throw the towel in on games far earlier than previously.
As for Kobe's mentality, well he did write an article about his own basketball mortality, it might have changed a little from the past... |
Agree with this. |
I don't see it happening. Kobe absolutely will not go out like Wizards MJ. He'll walk away first. If he isn't elite, he'll quit. He loves the game, but he loves the game as Kobe, as the most elite skilled scorer of all time. He doesn't love, IMO, mind you, the game as a good but not elite player. He's not TD or KG. Or even MJ. He's a different beast. |
Kobe has been saying this for a while. I don't think he'll hang on if he can't be a legit alpha and back it up |
That's his strength and weakness encapsulated right there. His supporters and detractors alike use this same line of thought. |
Except I don't buy it. If Kobe comes out and spends the first 3-4 months of the season averaging in the low 20s, he's not going to give up all that money and retire.
He's going to play through these next 2 years no matter what. Kobe says a lot of things which sound bad ass. |
He wants that longevity record, he won't check out before playing the next two seasons.
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LakersMDGurl
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I don't know that Kobe has ever been an athletic freak. When he was younger, he had explosiveness. I would not call that being athletic. LeBron/Dwight, those are athletic freaks. What Kobe has always been and will always be regardless of explosiveness is SKILLED
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:58 am Post subject: |
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whatever it takes to win!  |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | It's not like minutes restrictions of these kind are usually absolute (unless its specifically injury management). It's a round number for a period, it's not as though Pop goes, ooo, 30 minutes are up, time to come off. He's not going to pull him out of a close game, but he probably will throw the towel in on games far earlier than previously.
As for Kobe's mentality, well he did write an article about his own basketball mortality, it might have changed a little from the past... |
Agree with this. |
I don't see it happening. Kobe absolutely will not go out like Wizards MJ. He'll walk away first. If he isn't elite, he'll quit. He loves the game, but he loves the game as Kobe, as the most elite skilled scorer of all time. He doesn't love, IMO, mind you, the game as a good but not elite player. He's not TD or KG. Or even MJ. He's a different beast. |
Kobe has been saying this for a while. I don't think he'll hang on if he can't be a legit alpha and back it up |
That's his strength and weakness encapsulated right there. His supporters and detractors alike use this same line of thought. |
Except I don't buy it. If Kobe comes out and spends the first 3-4 months of the season averaging in the low 20s, he's not going to give up all that money and retire.
He's going to play through these next 2 years no matter what. Kobe says a lot of things which sound bad ass. |
He wants that longevity record, he won't check out before playing the next two seasons. |
Who is the current holder of the longevity record? Seriously, I just typed this into Google and still don't have an answer. I find it hard to believe this is a record more than 5 people are aware or even care about, or that Kobe is willing to pull a Willie Mays just to achieve it. Money, as always, is the reason he's not going anywhere. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Yet Kobe himself has said how important that is for him to achieve. And the record is held by Stockton.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| So if he plays one game into his 20th season and retires does he still get it? It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing you brag about at the next Hall of Fame dinner. Parish "played" 21 seasons and a few of those should have an asterisk, for instance. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| LakersMDGurl wrote: | | I don't know that Kobe has ever been an athletic freak. When he was younger, he had explosiveness. I would not call that being athletic. LeBron/Dwight, those are athletic freaks. What Kobe has always been and will always be regardless of explosiveness is SKILLED |
Kobe had an elite, blazing quick first step and regularly posterized some of the best players and bigs in the league. I think sometimes people want to focus so much on Kobe's skill level, which is high, that they want to under sell his natural talent. Kobe was an elite level athlete. |
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Spirit
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | LakersMDGurl wrote: | | I don't know that Kobe has ever been an athletic freak. When he was younger, he had explosiveness. I would not call that being athletic. LeBron/Dwight, those are athletic freaks. What Kobe has always been and will always be regardless of explosiveness is SKILLED |
Kobe had an elite, blazing quick first step and regularly posterized some of the best players and bigs in the league. I think sometimes people want to focus so much on Kobe's skill level, which is high, that they want to under sell his natural talent. Kobe was an elite level athlete. |
Concur. One of the most overlooked and possibly underappreciated aspects of Kobeʻs game is his body control/balance. You donʻt pull off half the moves heʻs made on the ground and in the air without being an elite-level athlete. |
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King beef
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: |
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I disagree with Byron Scott's approach. I hate coaches who substitute players at a particular time every game just because that is what they do. I hate coaches who appear to not play rookies because they simply dont play rookies.
I dont think that is coaching. Granted, I would like to see how Byron coaches the entire team before coming to a definitive conclusion, "Coaching by script". LImiting minutes does not necessarily mean "Coaching by script", so we will have to see.
And if you want to limit minutes, why didnt management get personnel that is good enough to limit KObes minutes. Signing Kobe by himself is a commitment to mediocrity. Being mediocre in the NBA is a waste of time. So why not give Kobe enough so that other guys could pick up the slack when you limit minutes.
I simply dont see any planning. The Lakers should attempt to be very good or very bad. I dont see Byron having the personnel to monitor Kobes minutes. I dont blame Kobe, I blame management. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Spirit wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | LakersMDGurl wrote: | | I don't know that Kobe has ever been an athletic freak. When he was younger, he had explosiveness. I would not call that being athletic. LeBron/Dwight, those are athletic freaks. What Kobe has always been and will always be regardless of explosiveness is SKILLED |
Kobe had an elite, blazing quick first step and regularly posterized some of the best players and bigs in the league. I think sometimes people want to focus so much on Kobe's skill level, which is high, that they want to under sell his natural talent. Kobe was an elite level athlete. |
Concur. One of the most overlooked and possibly underappreciated aspects of Kobeʻs game is his body control/balance. You donʻt pull off half the moves heʻs made on the ground and in the air without being an elite-level athlete. |
Co-sign
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Let's hope for sacrificing 20-25% off his scoring average for increased efficiency. Play smarter, not harder. 15 shots a game max, with higher quality looks generating FG% in the high 40s, perhaps even 50%.
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