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Voices
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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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The opinions that a healthy Kobe will retire a Laker after this current huge contact is total speculation. If Kobe is healthy beyond this current contract and he is offered the MLE by a true contender he would IMO consider it. I believe the MLE is about 6 mil. per year which comes out to be $125,000 per week, where would Kobe make that kind of money if he did retire after this contract, that is serious money? If Kobe is close to setting or surpassing Lakers or NBA records he will definitely play longer than this current contract IMO.
Is Kobe tradeable now which is the topic of this thread, of course not, but why is this even being discussed as dissing Kobe? Kobe is only worth his basketball ability to other NBA teams, he is not worth 25 million in basketball ability at this point in his career, I would think most fans agree that the Lakers overpaid Kobe. Apparently, for whatever reason the Lakers think Kobe is worth the huge contract. IMO the Lakers management made a bad decision, that has been discussed already so end of conversation.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | This is a great example of how the lakers with kobe bryant have been taking low blows for over a decade.
Some people here have access dont you? How about asking a second question for me...
"would you trade your last 17 years for $(insert kobes total career pay), the best player in the game over that time, 5 rings AND $(insert the lakers total revenue over those years)?"
the writer's just as bad for publishing this nonsense.
if kobe didn't get injured, it's pretty amazing he willed us into the playoffs 2 years before retiring (which he would have done by now). |
Only that isn't what the writer wrote.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Floyd24NDLAL wrote: | | So If Kobe is scoring 24 PPG while still being one the best Clutch shooters you're going to tell me his trade value is going to still be 0? |
Using OKC as an example since they were mentioned earlier, they would have to include either Ibaka, Westbrook or Durant with Perkins in a trade for Kobe. Would they do that?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | The opinions that a healthy Kobe will retire a Laker after this current huge contact is total speculation. If Kobe is healthy beyond this current contract and he is offered the MLE by a true contender he would IMO consider it. I believe the MLE is about 6 mil. per year which comes out to be $125,000 per week, where would Kobe make that kind of money if he did retire after this contract, that is serious money? If Kobe is close to setting or surpassing Lakers or NBA records he will definitely play longer than this current contract IMO.
Is Kobe tradeable now which is the topic of this thread, of course not, but why is this even being discussed as dissing Kobe? Kobe is only worth his basketball ability to other NBA teams, he is not worth 25 million in basketball ability at this point in his career, I would think most fans agree that the Lakers overpaid Kobe. Apparently, for whatever reason the Lakers think Kobe is worth the huge contract. IMO the Lakers management made a bad decision, that has been discussed already so end of conversation. |
I disagree, Kobe has said repeatedly that retiring with the longest tenure with one team in the league is important to him.
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dmills
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | thejet24 wrote: | | ronnyjeremy wrote: | | alexjlake_gr8t wrote: | | ronnyjeremy wrote: | | He's right. The most stupidest contract out there. |
Please explain your statement. You cant support "We take care of our own" and say this is stupid. When was the last time you turned down a raise or didnt pay yourself more(bus owner) just because Other's thought you should take less? Dont forget, he actually could have taken more. | Quote: | | The most stupidest contract |
is still ongoing and that belongs to Joe Johnson at $23.1 this season and $24.3 the following. That my good sir is stupidity at its finest. |
The NBA is a business, it was a great deal for Kobe. But I root for the Lakers organization as a whole, not just Kobe. You don't pay a 36 year old who missed close to two seasons the most in the league. |
You were probably one of the millions who has rooted for the Lakers the last 19 years, enjoying 7 championship runs, 5 titles and countless of amazing games on the shoulders of Kobe Bryant.
And you were probably one of the millions who still rooted for the Lakers when they brought back Magic Johnson after a life-threathing disease derailed the team for a decade.
Unfortunantly, too many people today do not value loyalty over business.
Sports is entertainment, and even at 36, Kobe has entertainment value 99.99% of the league cannot match. |
And have to be honest, as much as I love winning, I value teams that value their players. I do NOT want to see franchise players dumped in the twilight of their careers. Would rather find a way to utilize their talents and keep them in the culture. |
I agree with this. It's one reason why I'm not as big an NFL fan as I once was. The NFL is essentially a mercenary league that will toss out a star player like yesterdays garbage the moment it becomes expedient for them to do so. It's truly at it's core a "name on the front, not the back" league which to me is a connotation for "spend your time and hard earned money rooting for team x regardless of how horrible the team is or how poorly managed they are".
I don't want the NBA to become that.
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GonzagaAlum
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Amare's expiring and two firsts... you think Phil says no? I don't. Just saying. Not that it's happening. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I can imagine that GM in 1997 offseason.
"Nobody is gonna trade for Jordan when he's getting paid 33 mill a year. His contract has no trade value!" |
Not a fair comparison. That Jordan re 9was younger, was healthy as a horse, and was winning the scoring title, MVPn,9and finals MVP nearly every season.
It'd be better to use Wizards Jordan for this comparison. Hadnt played in years and there were no guarantees about what he was still capable of. |
Kobe is 36.
Jordan was 35 when signing that 97 contract. He didn't win MVP that year. Krause wanted jordan to retire a bull after contract. jordan was better but that's why he got 8 mill more than kobe is now. It's a good comparison.
Jordan was 40,out of shape, and playing for a new team when he was in Washington.
Besides that was never my point. My point was: when teams give a legendary player (who's won them multiple chips) a huge contract at the tail end of their career, it's cause they don't want him going anywhere else via FA or trades. That's what Chicago did and that's what the lakers are doing.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I can imagine that GM in 1997 offseason.
"Nobody is gonna trade for Jordan when he's getting paid 33 mill a year. His contract has no trade value!" |
Not a fair comparison. That Jordan re 9was younger, was healthy as a horse, and was winning the scoring title, MVPn,9and finals MVP nearly every season.
It'd be better to use Wizards Jordan for this comparison. Hadnt played in years and there were no guarantees about what he was still capable of. |
Kobe is 36.
Jordan was 35 when signing that 97 contract. He didn't win MVP that year. Krause wanted jordan to retire a bull after contract. jordan was better but that's why he got 8 mill more than kobe is now. It's a good comparison.
Jordan was 40,out of shape, and playing for a new team when he was in Washington.
Besides that was never my point. My point was: when teams give a legendary player (who's won them multiple chips) a huge contract at the tail end of their career, it's cause they don't want him going anywhere else via FA or trades. That's what Chicago did and that's what the lakers are doing. |
Jordan in 97 had played like 5 fewer seasons than current Kobe, had no time off or injuries, and was running the league. I dont see how its a valid comparison to Kobes current situation at all.
If you look at Jordans first year with the wizards, those are the numbers people are hoping Kobe puts up this year and many think thats overly optimistic. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| GonzagaAlum wrote: | | Amare's expiring and two firsts... you think Phil says no? I don't. Just saying. Not that it's happening. |
thats a zero or negative value return. The Lakers got a #1 pick just for taking Lins contract. 2 picks to take on Amares seems more than fair. Kobe would only need to be included so salaries could match. |
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AshesToAshes
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ppineda wrote: | | AshesToAshes wrote: | This is a great example of how the lakers with kobe bryant have been taking low blows for over a decade.
Some people here have access dont you? How about asking a second question for me...
"would you trade your last 17 years for $(insert kobes total career pay), the best player in the game over that time, 5 rings AND $(insert the lakers total revenue over those years)?"
the writer's just as bad for publishing this nonsense.
if kobe didn't get injured, it's pretty amazing he willed us into the playoffs 2 years before retiring (which he would have done by now). |
Why? Because this article is right? Kobe has a zero trade value, because you can't trade for him. That's a fact. The only reason why you would take him, is if the team is close to contending. But then the team would have to trade $24 million - which would gut the team and take them out of contention. Unless they have $24 million of garbage to trade for Kobe, in which case the Lakers wouldn't trade Kobe. Unless the team sweetens it with high first round picks, which the team wouldn't have if they were the contenders that is required to make a trade for Kobe make sense.
I really can't believe how sensitive Kobe fans are. Kobe is untradeable and his contract is absolutely horrible for any team not named the Lakers. The contract only makes sense for the Lakers, so Kobe's trade value is zero. |
Don't really care that its about Kobe.. Who has trade value right before retirement?
It is horrible for any team but the lakers... But which team is he on? Even your reply says "no story here" but it's still a published slag article on the lakers and our franchise guy.
When's the story about how the best clipper of all time is really a failure? You don't write that article to pay homage to keeping facts straight.
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AshesToAshes
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | AshesToAshes wrote: | This is a great example of how the lakers with kobe bryant have been taking low blows for over a decade.
Some people here have access dont you? How about asking a second question for me...
"would you trade your last 17 years for $(insert kobes total career pay), the best player in the game over that time, 5 rings AND $(insert the lakers total revenue over those years)?"
the writer's just as bad for publishing this nonsense.
if kobe didn't get injured, it's pretty amazing he willed us into the playoffs 2 years before retiring (which he would have done by now). |
Only that isn't what the writer wrote. |
Obviously not. But hey let's just ignore how this makes the team look like idiots because I sound like a Kobe fan.
You're all correct we should just Cuban the team after every ring. That would be the smart thing for an organization todo I'm sure the facts support that too.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe's contract makes no basketball sense. But it makes a whole lot of business sense.
Remember it is the last of the old contracts on the old CBA. His yearly escalations should have given him over $30M this year. He actually took a 20% paycut this year.
The "broken down old man" will be on the nightly ESPN scroll. Countless articles and stories will be posted on him and the Lakers all season long because of his stature. Lakers will be a bigger story then the entire Western Conference. Only the Cavs and Lebron will get more press.
What other expected 30 win team is getting 18 Nationally televised games and is playing on Christmas Day. (Yes the Knicks are too). He will fill every arena in the League with Laker Jerseys and chants of MVP.
Lakers are rebuilding and Kobe is still worth every penny he earns. |
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Jeggs
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty sure it is Dan Gilbert that is saying Kobe has zero trade value. |
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I Love LA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| It is 0. But that's fine...that contract was created to be a tradable asset. I don't know why that was brought up. Deron Williams trade value is 0 too. Who cares? |
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Voices
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Voices wrote: | The opinions that a healthy Kobe will retire a Laker after this current huge contact is total speculation. If Kobe is healthy beyond this current contract and he is offered the MLE by a true contender he would IMO consider it. I believe the MLE is about 6 mil. per year which comes out to be $125,000 per week, where would Kobe make that kind of money if he did retire after this contract, that is serious money? If Kobe is close to setting or surpassing Lakers or NBA records he will definitely play longer than this current contract IMO.
Is Kobe tradeable now which is the topic of this thread, of course not, but why is this even being discussed as dissing Kobe? Kobe is only worth his basketball ability to other NBA teams, he is not worth 25 million in basketball ability at this point in his career, I would think most fans agree that the Lakers overpaid Kobe. Apparently, for whatever reason the Lakers think Kobe is worth the huge contract. IMO the Lakers management made a bad decision, that has been discussed already so end of conversation. |
I disagree, Kobe has said repeatedly that retiring with the longest tenure with one team in the league is important to him. |
What is important to Kobe today may not be important to him 2 years from now, situations change.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| True. I don't think a single team would trade anything of substance for Kobe right now. It's irrelevant because Lakers won't try to trade Kobe anyway, even if he had great trade value. |
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CabinCreek44
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | True. I don't think a single team would trade anything of substance for Kobe right now. It's irrelevant because Lakers won't try to trade Kobe anyway, even if he had great trade value. |
This is entirely the point. They didn't sign him to trade him. They signed him to keep him in a Lakers uni, and keep the fannies in the seats.
They "paid him too much"? His contract is a "disaster"? Please. Wait and see what these same folks are saying/writing when a past his prime LeBron gets some huge contract near the end of his career when he's already past his physical prime. I can see it now..."Classy move by the (Cavs). Taking care of their own. Rewarding him for all of his stellar years of service!"
Kobe is still going to be a great player in this league. I believe he will possibly see a little less lift/mobility from the Achilles, but outside of that he is still going to be great. He's been losing lift for years and had already lost a step defensively. So what? He still looked pretty good to me.
Anyone who pays attention to the media can spot their falsity from a mile away. So some hack quotes an anonymous GM about Kobe's "trade value". This has to be one of the biggest non-stories of the year. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:33 am Post subject: |
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Agreed the Lakers didn't extend Kobe with the mindset that they wanted it to be a tradeable asset. The business side of the deal is not disputed.
The on-court value is different, but a moot point at this juncture. Let Kobe ride off to the sunset and hopefully the FO can put together a semi-competitive team for him while he's riding out.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Even at this stage he will help put butts in the seats at Staples, as long as he is capable of playing credible minutes. However I don't think that translates into significantly increased attendance at another venue at this stage of his career. As a result the contract does have arguably zero or negative trade value, but then as others have pointed out the Lakers didn't sign Kobe for the purpose of using him as a trading chip. |
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Gepetto
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| CabinCreek44 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | True. I don't think a single team would trade anything of substance for Kobe right now. It's irrelevant because Lakers won't try to trade Kobe anyway, even if he had great trade value. |
This is entirely the point. They didn't sign him to trade him. They signed him to keep him in a Lakers uni, and keep the fannies in the seats.
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Precisely.
There was no real chance a true contender could be put together around Kobe this year-although I will admit LeBron's interest in and and then leaving Miami certainly warped that kind of possibility all over the league in ways I didn't foresee. Lesser moves to keep the next two years interesting, and add pieces in year 2 is all that could be expected.
It's when Kobe's contract expires that the return to contender status becomes possible-Durant's free agency, the Spurs are actually, finally done, Mavs clock is run out and the Rox, Blazers, Clips & Warriors all have Achilles' heels as currently constructed. That's the next window for the Lakers.
If Kobe's comeback works out well and he's still dangerous at 38, do you really think he wouldn't be interested at 38 in staying a Laker, taking a Ginobili-like role as a true game-changer and team leader on a Laker team built around Durant and another all-star? It would be an exciting role, not a token by any means and you know what? O.G. already showed us in the 2012 Olympics he could enjoy this key role on a seriously loaded team. A truly proud way to go out-competing for a 6th ring, an all-time scoring title and true relevance at 40. All on the same team. Even MJ can't claim that. |
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ppineda
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | | ppineda wrote: | | AshesToAshes wrote: | This is a great example of how the lakers with kobe bryant have been taking low blows for over a decade.
Some people here have access dont you? How about asking a second question for me...
"would you trade your last 17 years for $(insert kobes total career pay), the best player in the game over that time, 5 rings AND $(insert the lakers total revenue over those years)?"
the writer's just as bad for publishing this nonsense.
if kobe didn't get injured, it's pretty amazing he willed us into the playoffs 2 years before retiring (which he would have done by now). |
Why? Because this article is right? Kobe has a zero trade value, because you can't trade for him. That's a fact. The only reason why you would take him, is if the team is close to contending. But then the team would have to trade $24 million - which would gut the team and take them out of contention. Unless they have $24 million of garbage to trade for Kobe, in which case the Lakers wouldn't trade Kobe. Unless the team sweetens it with high first round picks, which the team wouldn't have if they were the contenders that is required to make a trade for Kobe make sense.
I really can't believe how sensitive Kobe fans are. Kobe is untradeable and his contract is absolutely horrible for any team not named the Lakers. The contract only makes sense for the Lakers, so Kobe's trade value is zero. |
Don't really care that its about Kobe.. Who has trade value right before retirement?
It is horrible for any team but the lakers... But which team is he on? Even your reply says "no story here" but it's still a published slag article on the lakers and our franchise guy.
When's the story about how the best clipper of all time is really a failure? You don't write that article to pay homage to keeping facts straight. |
True. It really is just a swipe at Kobe's contract. Which is a valid critisism, but like I said before the contract makes sense to give him if you are the Lakers. Which is why it was done.
Though to be honest, lots of veterans and superstars have trade value at the end of their career. As long as their contract is reasonable. Off the top of my head - Duncan, Dirk, Paul Pierce, Manu. All of those people can be traded near the end of the career. Their respective teams may or may not ever want to trade them. But if they put them out there, other teams would be able to offer legit trades for them. |
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ppineda
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| I Love LA wrote: | | It is 0. But that's fine...that contract was created to be a tradable asset. I don't know why that was brought up. Deron Williams trade value is 0 too. Who cares? |
Truth. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I can imagine that GM in 1997 offseason.
"Nobody is gonna trade for Jordan when he's getting paid 33 mill a year. His contract has no trade value!" |
Not a fair comparison. That Jordan re 9was younger, was healthy as a horse, and was winning the scoring title, MVPn,9and finals MVP nearly every season.
It'd be better to use Wizards Jordan for this comparison. Hadnt played in years and there were no guarantees about what he was still capable of. |
Kobe is 36.
Jordan was 35 when signing that 97 contract. He didn't win MVP that year. Krause wanted jordan to retire a bull after contract. jordan was better but that's why he got 8 mill more than kobe is now. It's a good comparison.
Jordan was 40,out of shape, and playing for a new team when he was in Washington.
Besides that was never my point. My point was: when teams give a legendary player (who's won them multiple chips) a huge contract at the tail end of their career, it's cause they don't want him going anywhere else via FA or trades. That's what Chicago did and that's what the lakers are doing. |
Jordan in 97 had played like 5 fewer seasons than current Kobe, had no time off or injuries, and was running the league. I dont see how its a valid comparison to Kobes current situation at all.
If you look at Jordans first year with the wizards, those are the numbers people are hoping Kobe puts up this year and many think thats overly optimistic. |
What do you call the season and a half he took off for baseball. Is that not time off? He dealt with cramps game 4 of the finals in 97, and a 103 degree flu in game 5. But you're right I guess those are ailments and not injuries. With the Wizards Jordan missed nearly 30 games the first season. I haven't heard that being the expectation for Kobe next year.
Truth is. Kobe will likely be somewhere between 98 jordan and Wizards Jordan when he returns. But non of us know for sure how he'll look. It's speculation. Pre-achilles Kobe was much closer to Bulls jordan than Wizards Jordan though.
Besides that wasn't my point. I will copy and paste it again. If you argue with me on something that isn't this point again I'll just ignore it.
My point was: when teams give a legendary player (who's won them multiple chips) a huge contract at the tail end of their career, it's cause they don't want him going anywhere else via FA or trades. That's what Chicago did and that's what the lakers are doing.
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LakersMDGurl
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Lord, when Jordan was with the wizards at 100, fans were tripping just to come watch him labor up and down the court. Kobe is no were near that age right now. If people went crazy over 40 year old Jordan they def will over 36 year old Kobe. The contract is such that the Lakers are saying " thank you for 18 years, 5 rings, now put on a show the next two years, make us some good money, because when you leave we will struggle to be relevant again".
He can have "zero" value to other teams, but but that's the point of the damn contract anyways; no one would be interested in taking that on.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I can imagine that GM in 1997 offseason.
"Nobody is gonna trade for Jordan when he's getting paid 33 mill a year. His contract has no trade value!" |
Not a fair comparison. That Jordan re 9was younger, was healthy as a horse, and was winning the scoring title, MVPn,9and finals MVP nearly every season.
It'd be better to use Wizards Jordan for this comparison. Hadnt played in years and there were no guarantees about what he was still capable of. |
Kobe is 36.
Jordan was 35 when signing that 97 contract. He didn't win MVP that year. Krause wanted jordan to retire a bull after contract. jordan was better but that's why he got 8 mill more than kobe is now. It's a good comparison.
Jordan was 40,out of shape, and playing for a new team when he was in Washington.
Besides that was never my point. My point was: when teams give a legendary player (who's won them multiple chips) a huge contract at the tail end of their career, it's cause they don't want him going anywhere else via FA or trades. That's what Chicago did and that's what the lakers are doing. |
Jordan in 97 had played like 5 fewer seasons than current Kobe, had no time off or injuries, and was running the league. I dont see how its a valid comparison to Kobes current situation at all.
If you look at Jordans first year with the wizards, those are the numbers people are hoping Kobe puts up this year and many think thats overly optimistic. |
What do you call the season and a half he took off for baseball. Is that not time off? He dealt with cramps game 4 of the finals in 97, and a 103 degree flu in game 5. But you're right I guess those are ailments and not injuries. With the Wizards Jordan missed nearly 30 games the first season. I haven't heard that being the expectation for Kobe next year.
Truth is. Kobe will likely be somewhere between 98 jordan and Wizards Jordan when he returns. But non of us know for sure how he'll look. It's speculation. Pre-achilles Kobe was much closer to Bulls jordan than Wizards Jordan though.
Besides that wasn't my point. I will copy and paste it again. If you argue with me on something that isn't this point again I'll just ignore it.
My point was: when teams give a legendary player (who's won them multiple chips) a huge contract at the tail end of their career, it's cause they don't want him going anywhere else via FA or trades. That's what Chicago did and that's what the lakers are doing. |
I was only responding to the comment you made in the quoted post above. I just don't see any parallels between a 1997 Jordan and a 2014 Kobe. While the Bulls would not have got fair value for Jordan (it's almost impossible with a contract like that), teams certainly would have given up value for him. Just like teams would have given up plenty for Kobe back in 2009 or 2010 when he was in the running for scoring title, MVP, and finals mvp.
As for the point you were making in your other post, I agree and I don't think anyone here thinks Kobe's trade value is even a hot topic right now. There are no plans to trade him in the next two years so if they can't get anything back for him in a hypothetical scenario, that's completely fine and irrelevant. This only even came up because anytime anyone anywhere says anything about Kobe, it gets a ton of attention. Whether its a nobody like Smush saying he's a bad teammate or a nobody like Darius Morris saying he's a good teammate, it generates hits and debates from all over. |
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