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nevitt_smrek
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: If Spurs win 2015 title |
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That would make it six titles for Duncan, 5 each for the other big three guys. They would finally get the repeat. The stats and achievements could be enough to surpass any Lakers era, perhaps bar Mikan's.
This should spark some debates, eh?
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EZ-Ryder
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I think if Duncan wins another title an argument could be made that he is top 3 all time. |
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Wino
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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No offense to Duncan because I think he is an excellent player, but he is not that close to Jabbar.
I would take Jabbar in any era over Duncan, in a heartbeat.
I would take Magic and Jordan over him too. After that it's debatable and I would have Duncan somewhere in the top 20.
That's it, if he wins two more rings.
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DrWolf
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldnt like to see that happen, being that i dislike them. However, i wouldnt be surprised if they did win another title
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | No offense to Duncan because I think he is an excellent player, but he is not that close to Jabbar.
I would take Jabbar in any era over Duncan, in a heartbeat.
I would take Magic and Jordan over him too. After that it's debatable and I would have Duncan somewhere in the top 20.
That's it, if he wins two more rings. |
Agreed. Jabbar spent so many years of his prime in the 70s without the kind of coaching and personnel that Duncan has enjoyed his entire career. Duncan's a great player, but he should consider himself very, very fortunate to be in the situation he's been in from day 1.
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Exick
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ-Ryder wrote: | | I think if Duncan wins another title an argument could be made that he is top 3 all time. |
At this point, I think there's no reason to say that Duncan would have to win X number more rings to be considered in the top Y players. He's been in the league for 17 years. As an individual and a team player, you know exactly what he brings. Him winning another championship (or not) isn't going to change my opinion of him. He has a ridiculous number of accolades already.
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Telleris
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| An additional title will probably more cement Pop as top 2, or maybe even the best than it will Duncan given how that team has evolved. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: If Spurs win 2015 title |
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| nevitt_smrek wrote: | That would make it six titles for Duncan, 5 each for the other big three guys. They would finally get the repeat. The stats and achievements could be enough to surpass any Lakers era, perhaps bar Mikan's.
This should spark some debates, eh? |
It would spark debates among people who enjoy debating this type of thing. It wouldn't affect how most people think of Duncan. |
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: If Spurs win 2015 title |
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| activeverb wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | That would make it six titles for Duncan, 5 each for the other big three guys. They would finally get the repeat. The stats and achievements could be enough to surpass any Lakers era, perhaps bar Mikan's.
This should spark some debates, eh? |
It would spark debates among people who enjoy debating this type of thing. It wouldn't affect how most people think of Duncan. |
True. Most people's opinions on Duncan were probably set in stone long before the 2014 title. He's either tremendously skilled or boring. I do feel a more positive stance towards him and Spurs, if only because they destroyed the Heat. For Kobe, he's lost much of the goodwill earned from Decision 2010 due to the contract he signed.
Debating these things is what sports are about. Who is better between 90s Cowboys and 70s Steelers, Wilt vs Shaq, etc.
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Steve007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:49 am Post subject: |
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This is dumb IMO. The Spurs didn't win because they relied so much on one, two, or even three guys. They are one of the best examples of a "team" that I've ever seen in the league. Let's not forget that Duncan is nowhere near the player he used to be. I think giving so much credit to one guy on that team is insulting to the rest of the team. That was not the 2007 Spurs we watched in the playoffs.
Now if Duncan had at least done better than go 1-3 in the playoffs against Shaq and Kobe, then this discussion would make more sense. |
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chubby_1_kenobi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Must be nice being Duncan.
Even when his teammates outplayed him in some of the finals, he still "earned" his 5 titles.
"Coat-tails" anyone?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Must be nice being Duncan.
Even when his teammates outplayed him in some of the finals, he still "earned" his 5 titles.
"Coat-tails" anyone? |
Well, he did pay for the "alleged" coat-tails by taking less money.
I disagree though, Duncan is instrumental to all the title runs and remember last season, he only made $10m. It's not like he's out there screaming that he's the Alpha dog.
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chubby_1_kenobi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Must be nice being Duncan.
Even when his teammates outplayed him in some of the finals, he still "earned" his 5 titles.
"Coat-tails" anyone? |
Well, he did pay for the "alleged" coat-tails by taking less money.
I disagree though, Duncan is instrumental to all the title runs and remember last season, he only made $10m. It's not like he's out there screaming that he's the Alpha dog. |
If Duncan is more of a polarizing figure maybe the Spurs could've secured a 3 billion dollar TV deal, eh?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Must be nice being Duncan.
Even when his teammates outplayed him in some of the finals, he still "earned" his 5 titles.
"Coat-tails" anyone? |
Well, he did pay for the "alleged" coat-tails by taking less money.
I disagree though, Duncan is instrumental to all the title runs and remember last season, he only made $10m. It's not like he's out there screaming that he's the Alpha dog. |
If Duncan is more of a polarizing figure maybe the Spurs could've secured a 3 billion dollar TV deal, eh? |
Huh? My point is, the guy is content being 3rd fiddle, took a paycut reflecting same. He's not a Kobe type of player by any means and of course, Spurs not even in the same stratosphere in terms of market size.
You are deriding Duncan for something that he's glad to be doing. That's my point.
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chubby_1_kenobi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Must be nice being Duncan.
Even when his teammates outplayed him in some of the finals, he still "earned" his 5 titles.
"Coat-tails" anyone? |
Well, he did pay for the "alleged" coat-tails by taking less money.
I disagree though, Duncan is instrumental to all the title runs and remember last season, he only made $10m. It's not like he's out there screaming that he's the Alpha dog. |
If Duncan is more of a polarizing figure maybe the Spurs could've secured a 3 billion dollar TV deal, eh? |
Huh? My point is, the guy is content being 3rd fiddle, took a paycut reflecting same. He's not a Kobe type of player by any means and of course, Spurs not even in the same stratosphere in terms of market size.
You are deriding Duncan for something that he's glad to be doing. That's my point. |
Not talking about Duncan's state of mind. My comment was about the double standard of "earning" 5 titles.
Better not bring up more Kobe's contract talks in other threads. Haven't you been warned by the mod for that?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | Must be nice being Duncan.
Even when his teammates outplayed him in some of the finals, he still "earned" his 5 titles.
"Coat-tails" anyone? |
Well, he did pay for the "alleged" coat-tails by taking less money.
I disagree though, Duncan is instrumental to all the title runs and remember last season, he only made $10m. It's not like he's out there screaming that he's the Alpha dog. |
If Duncan is more of a polarizing figure maybe the Spurs could've secured a 3 billion dollar TV deal, eh? |
Huh? My point is, the guy is content being 3rd fiddle, took a paycut reflecting same. He's not a Kobe type of player by any means and of course, Spurs not even in the same stratosphere in terms of market size.
You are deriding Duncan for something that he's glad to be doing. That's my point. |
Not talking about Duncan's state of mind. My comment was about the double standard of "earning" 5 titles.
Better not bring up more Kobe's contract talks in other threads. Haven't you been warned by the mod for that? |
Huh? When did I bring it up? And no, why would a mod warn me about it? I have never been accused of being disrespectful in contracts concerning it. You brought it up.
How has Duncan not "earned" his 5 titles?
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chubby_1_kenobi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Huh? When did I bring it up? And no, why would a mod warn me about it? I have never been accused of being disrespectful in contracts concerning it. You brought it up.
How has Duncan not "earned" his 5 titles? |
No, you brought it up.
Duncan and Kobe both "earned" their 5 titles. There's no distintion between the two.
Agreed?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Huh? When did I bring it up? And no, why would a mod warn me about it? I have never been accused of being disrespectful in contracts concerning it. You brought it up.
How has Duncan not "earned" his 5 titles? |
No, you brought it up.
Duncan and Kobe both "earned" their 5 titles. There's no distintion between the two.
Agreed? |
Interesting analysis. Where did I bring up Kobe's contract? Are you that sensitive that anything that could intimately be associated with Kobe makes you go bat ish? I said Duncan isn't an Alpha personality and he also isn't making a max salary. That can apply to numerous players across the NBA but of course you intimate that it had to be Kobe. Ridiculous.
And of course I believe Duncan earned his 5 titles. Since you put everything in "quotations," I could not discern your real position since it made it look like you didn't think he earned it.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| In the "all time career" category he'd a top 5 player, but as other's have mentioned, his skill and dominance individually isn't up there with others. |
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chubby_1_kenobi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Huh? When did I bring it up? And no, why would a mod warn me about it? I have never been accused of being disrespectful in contracts concerning it. You brought it up.
How has Duncan not "earned" his 5 titles? |
No, you brought it up.
Duncan and Kobe both "earned" their 5 titles. There's no distintion between the two.
Agreed? |
Interesting analysis. Where did I bring up Kobe's contract? Are you that sensitive that anything that could intimately be associated with Kobe makes you go bat ish? I said Duncan isn't an Alpha personality and he also isn't making a max salary. That can apply to numerous players across the NBA but of course you intimate that it had to be Kobe. Ridiculous.
And of course I believe Duncan earned his 5 titles. Since you put everything in "quotations," I could not discern your real position since it made it look like you didn't think he earned it. |
Calm down. I was just reminding you not to bring up Kobe's contract into the discussion and since you admit you were not trying to then it's all good.
I just told you my real position: Kobe and Duncan both earn their 5 titles. No distinction.
I even removed the quotations for your viewing pleasure.
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | chubby_1_kenobi wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Huh? When did I bring it up? And no, why would a mod warn me about it? I have never been accused of being disrespectful in contracts concerning it. You brought it up.
How has Duncan not "earned" his 5 titles? |
No, you brought it up.
Duncan and Kobe both "earned" their 5 titles. There's no distintion between the two.
Agreed? |
Interesting analysis. Where did I bring up Kobe's contract? Are you that sensitive that anything that could intimately be associated with Kobe makes you go bat ish? I said Duncan isn't an Alpha personality and he also isn't making a max salary. That can apply to numerous players across the NBA but of course you intimate that it had to be Kobe. Ridiculous.
And of course I believe Duncan earned his 5 titles. Since you put everything in "quotations," I could not discern your real position since it made it look like you didn't think he earned it. |
Calm down. I was just reminding you not to bring up Kobe's contract into the discussion and since you admit you were not trying to then it's all good.
I just told you my real position: Kobe and Duncan both earn their 5 titles. No distinction.
I even removed the quotations for your viewing pleasure. |
Yinoma didn't bring up Kobe's contract and I don't recall a warning for doing so in the past.
Duncan is a great player, possibly the best PF of all time. His team will continue to contend because the big 3 have accpeted smaller roles and contracts to for the greater good of the team allowing the FO to add talent around them and the coaches have made it all work. Fantastic effort by all. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Much as I hate the Spurs I really appreciate what they have done given their market size and budget. I think the two sterling franchises in the past 20 years are the Lakers and Spurs which have vastly different views on roster construction. Lakers have traditionally focused on big names due to competition in a big market for entertainment $s.
Both teams have been blessed with top 10 all-time players in Kobe and Duncan. I'm fascinated to see how both of these two top franchises do post Kobe/Duncan.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Duncan is great, but if the Spurs had KG for his whole career and Duncan was stuck on the T-Wolves during his prime, we'd be talking about Garnett right now and Tim wouldn't even be mentioned as a Top 10 all-time player.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Duncan is great, but if the Spurs had KG for his whole career and Duncan was stuck on the T-Wolves during his prime, we'd be talking about Garnett right now and Tim wouldn't even be mentioned as a Top 10 all-time player. |
Maybe. But I don't see why that should diminish Duncan's place in the all-time greats (I have him in my top 10-12 all time).
There are lots of hypotheticals that can be made but at the end of the day, it's a combination of talent and luck. Imagine if Dominique Wilkins was on the Lakers instead of Worthy? Or if Jordan never got Pippen. Or Kobe was stuck on Charlotte? On and on.
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nevitt_smrek
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | In the "all time career" category he'd a top 5 player, but as other's have mentioned, his skill and dominance individually isn't up there with others. |
I think most experts don't argue with Duncan's skill level, but he doesn't rank up there in terms of dominance statistically. This has to do with sacrificing personal stats for the betterment of the team, theoretically. But it can be argued that too much sacrificing can be detrimental also. Maybe carrying more of the load would have led to more success. While he did turn it on and save some of his best of the biggest games, dominating more offensively wasn't in his personality or maybe that wasn't the most effective way to use him.
There are other things like anchoring the defense, like how Russell did for his teams, that are more difficult to measure statistically. Others have brought up KG, but he never had the same presence defensively in the paint.
As far as starting this thread, I guess the main point was to bring up a topic that's not exactly comfortable to discuss for Lakers fans. Many of us are quietly assuming or hoping that the Spurs will get taken down next year. A sixth title for that team would give Spurs fans the upper hand in the back n forth.
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