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| Pre-Achilles kobe is likely the best Laker we will have for the next 10 years? |
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85% |
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| False |
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14% |
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| Total Votes : 107 |
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Voices
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 Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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There was only a few players that were in the same league as Kobe pre injury. There are 30 teams in the league and there was only a few players as good or better than Kobe, do the math, there were 27 teams that did not have a player as good or better than Kobe IMO, so if the Lakers in the next several years get a player as good as Kobe it would be a miracle. Kobe's do not come around very often, he is an all time top 10 players at the least, top 10 players of all time do not come around very often.
Because of the new CBA it will be next to impossible to make a trade to get another KAJ or other all time great player, so don't anyone hold their breath, rebuilding a team good enough to be champions is going to be very difficult without a superstar player or two. If Lakers management makes all the right moves it will not matter if the Lakers do not have superstars.
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DJ Slik
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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how long before the bulls get someone as good as MJ? DRose isn't even CLOSE for perspective.
even if the lakers got KD--he's no kobe, sorry. kobe is in rarefied territory along with MJ, duncan, magic.... IMO the only player comparable to him is lebron--so if the lakers get lebron in the next 5 years it counts. other than that? keep waiting. it'll be a LOOOOOONG time. |
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DJ Slik
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | If Lakers management makes all the right moves it will not matter if the Lakers do not have superstars. |
in general true, but there is the occasional squad that wins a chip without a superstar--and by that i mean one of lebron/kobe/duncan level. pistons come to mind. |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | Two months
Kobe's not done yet |
Well played sir.
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-Showtime-
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Number 42. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:43 am Post subject: |
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I think Derozan will be a top 10 player when he's a FA in 2016. Not the 27 ppg scorer Kobe was but a 24/5/5 player with more athleticism and better defense. Kobe pre achilles injury was top 5 offensively but his defense has been bad the past 4 years, keeping him from being in the top 5 but more in the 6-10 range.
Remember that Kobe has been given the 1st team defense off of name the last 3 years and has been turnover prone. Kobe was great for his age as a 34 year old but let's not go too far and make him out as the best player in 2012, we were a 7th seed that year and only won 45 games with a stacked team. The numbers Kobe put up were impressive but Lebron, Durant, CP3, Westbrook and Parker were better and more complete players that year. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: |
Because of the new CBA it will be next to impossible to make a trade to get another KAJ or other all time great player, so don't anyone hold their breath, . |
Why is it next to impossible? In the three years since the last CBA went into place, the following guys have switched teams: Lebron James, Dwight Howard (twice), Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kevin Love,
That's half of last year's first and second all-NBA team, so superstars certainly still are traded or leave as free agents. |
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lakurluv
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | I think Derozan will be a top 10 player when he's a FA in 2016. Not the 27 ppg scorer Kobe was but a 24/5/5 player with more athleticism and better defense. Kobe pre achilles injury was top 5 offensively but his defense has been bad the past 4 years, keeping him from being in the top 5 but more in the 6-10 range.
Remember that Kobe has been given the 1st team defense off of name the last 3 years and has been turnover prone. Kobe was great for his age as a 34 year old but let's not go too far and make him out as the best player in 2012, we were a 7th seed that year and only won 45 games with a stacked team. The numbers Kobe put up were impressive but Lebron, Durant, CP3, Westbrook and Parker were better and more complete players that year. |
A little perspective, when Kobe was 25 years old he averaged 24ppg with Shaq on his team and he only played 65 games. That was the year we had Malone and Payton and lost to the pistons and shouldn't have.
DeRozan at 25 is averaging 22ppg with no Shaq on his team and played 79 games. I will have to totally disagree with you on athleticism, because Kobe was every bit the athlete DeRozan is when he was his age. If Kobe had never played with Shaq his career averages would probably be like 32-35ppg, close to MJ but not quite. In 12 seasons with Philly, Iverson came close to 30ppg and being under 6' tall that was phenomenal in the NBA. Kobe is a way better scorer than AI. You can never compare DeRozan to Kobe in any way other than his imitation of Kobe to be a good player, he will avg. double digits for his career and might be an All-Star, but will never pan out to be a Kobe in anyway.
Any talk about 2012 is totally unfair, it was a one and done year, every other team in the league gets a year to develop with new players on it, like Miami with LeBron, D-Wade, Bosh, but the Lakers get Coward and instantly we're suppose to win it all no matter what...LOL.
I think everyone knew Coward was leaving after that year and it was one big Mess.
IMO in 2012 we should have went after DWill, and Javale McGhee, it would have been a better team... |
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Voices
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| DJ Slik wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | If Lakers management makes all the right moves it will not matter if the Lakers do not have superstars. |
in general true, but there is the occasional squad that wins a chip without a superstar--and by that i mean one of lebron/kobe/duncan level. pistons come to mind. |
Yes Detroit was a team without a superstar talent, but they had big time talent that played defense at an extremely high level, you might say they had superstar defensive talent. That Detroit team had great chemistry.
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rebirth
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:11 am Post subject: |
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I consider kobe before the ankle and knee to be top 3 in nba history (magic, jordan, kobe).. I think its going to be a while till you have a player equal to Kobe. I am sure there will be great players in the fold sooner rather than later. but players like Kobe are once in a generation players.. Magic, Jordan Kobe now LBJ. Who will be next and how long will it be before they surface. I tell you one kid I really like and would love in purple n gold is Lilard
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Voices
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Voices wrote: |
Because of the new CBA it will be next to impossible to make a trade to get another KAJ or other all time great player, so don't anyone hold their breath, . |
Why is it next to impossible? In the three years since the last CBA went into place, the following guys have switched teams: Lebron James, Dwight Howard (twice), Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kevin Love,
That's half of last year's first and second all-NBA team, so superstars certainly still are traded or leave as free agents. |
LJ and Dwight were not traded, Joe Johnson and Harden are not superstars, Love was traded but the T Wolves got great return for Love, they traded a borderline superstar for potential superstar talent. CP3 is the only one on your list that was truly traded for potentially less return.
The Lakers have nothing to trade with and there is no superstar demanding that they play for the Lakers. Again, because of the new CBA it makes it very difficult to acquire a FA superstar and to trade for one unless you have assets to trade with.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Let's see ... Kobe contends with MJ for consideration as greatest player of his position of all-time. Jerry West was considered greatest shooting guard of all-time prior to MJ's coronation. So, that was a twenty-plus year wait between Jerry's retirement and Kobe's arrival. Yeah, it's likely a long freaking wait for another guy like that. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Considering this is a bias topic, I think they have that guy now, Randle. A guy who can be a top 5 player in the league after 3-4 seasons and maintain that for a decade.
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AshesToAshes
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: |
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There's a difference between as good as kobe and good enough to win.
no up and coming "contender" has an MJ level player, let alone a kobe.
leflake has as much chance as Stephcurry as dDuncan as dirk as Gasol. ... That's really how bad it is.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Considering this is a bias topic, I think they have that guy now, Randle. A guy who can be a top 5 player in the league after 3-4 seasons and maintain that for a decade. |
Randle is a "guy who can be a top 5 player in the league" ?
I don't think he can.
You complained about poll bias but you also tried to bend the poll narrative to suit your own bias too.
A top five player is still not a Kobe Bryant equivalent level player, now is it ?
Kobe's been a first team all-NBA guy eleven times. A league MVP. A two-time Finals MVP. Has four scoring titles.
There's a marked level of accomplishment between what the poll is written to elucidate and what you asserted is possible for young Randle.
That aside, I seriously doubt Randle has a better chance than probably 50 or so current players and another thirty incoming players to the league over the next five years. I sure don't see Randle ever garnering multiple selections to first team all-NBA, frankly. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | The only player in the league who was playing at Kobe's level AT THAT TIME was LBJ. Not KD, CP3 or anyone else. Just looking at the # of all star games, All NBA teams, All NBA Defensive teams-the most in league history- and the 81, 62 in 3, 40xmonth 4 times, 5 rings, 7 finals in a Western Conference that has been stacked every year he has been in the league, unlike Magic's Laker teams for example, intensity, heart, ability to play through pain and injury, impossible shot after impossible shot, most skilled player in league history, greatest footwork in league history, greatest ball denial defensive player in league history........I'd say........A LONG TIME. |
Yep. I'm not sure what is meant by "pre-achilles Kobe". Does that mean Kobe in the last year or so before the injury or does it mean his career prior?
Either way it's going to be a long wait. While there may have been players who came close to Kobe's level of play in the last few years, there hasn't been one to match Kobe's career.
I know this, it took almost 44 years for someone to even come close to Wilt's 100 when Kobe got his 81. There's a lot that is required to do that other than just the talent necessary. You have to have the confidence to be able to just completely take over a game, the willingness to take the risk that it will blow up in your face if it doesn't work and the balls not to care if it does. People may meet a couple of those, but the ones who meet all of those criteria are extremely rare.
If it's less than 44 years for someone to come along with the same combination of can-do attitude, drive, talent, focus and willfulness I will be shocked. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Well for those who think Kobe is the GOAT people were saying that it would take decades for a MJ level player to play again in the nba. All it took was half a decade after MJ retired. Then you got Kobe and lbj within the span of a decade. So while it's remote lakers will get one we never know if someone is out there gunning to be the next Kobe.
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BruceLeroy1985
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, this is one of the dumbest questions ever? Why would you ask a question about a post and pre achilles Kobe when no one knows exactly what the post-achilles Kobe is?
The Lakers most likely will never get another pre OR post achilles kobe. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Considering this is a bias topic, I think they have that guy now, Randle. A guy who can be a top 5 player in the league after 3-4 seasons and maintain that for a decade. |
If one goes with the scenario that all of the older players such as LeBron, C Paul, Aldridge, Melo etc will have declined quite a bit over the next 3 - 4 years, I would have a group of younger players such as Durant, S Curry, A Davis and probably Drummond getting strong consideration as being top five players.
Other young players currently in the NBA such as:
Paul George
Harden
N Noel
Embiid
Lillard
J Parker
Wiggins
Love
etc
could also be candidates with Randle for consideration in a top five list of the future.
Also, there could be a player (or players) drafted in the next season or two that could surpass Randle.
What does your top five list of the future look like beyond Randle? |
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L.A.M.B
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:43 am Post subject: |
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maybe never?
we talkin bout kobe. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:10 am Post subject: |
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2006 Kobe - likely several decades away from finding another player as good, if ever
2012 Kobe - likely several years away, perhaps a decade
2014 Kobe - could be years, could be weeks, need to see him play before anyone knows that answer.
As for the premise of the OP, that we're not going to find another Kobe therefore our best chance to win is in the next 2 years - Kobe's had a great career so far, but he's 36, he's coming off an achilles injury, the Lakers tried this 2 years ago and that 'win-now' ship has sailed. Time to rebuild.
Then, if somehow Kobe's still around as a role player/mentor for the next title contender I'd be thrilled. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Again, when NBA fans said there will never be anyone close to Jordan, we had Kobe and LBJ spring up within 10 years of MJ. We just may not have enough information at this time.
Now, whether the Lakers get that player, it's unlikely. Goes to show how great of a player Kobe has been.
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Wilkes52
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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The highest potential player on the current roster is Randle. He's gonna be a nice complementary player but that's it. I see his career ceiling being something akin to a Taj Gibson or a Nik Vucevic, in terms of level of impact to his team and in terms of getting league-wide recognition.
It's pretty hard to envision Randle being destined for much more than that. There are so many superior guys in this league already grooved in his own position, pretty much well ahead of him, both young and mid-career guys:
Blake Griffin
Greg Monroe
Kevin Love
Larry Sanders
Anthony Davis
Al Horford
Zach Randolph
LaMarcus Aldridge
Maybe next season we can pick up someone having even better potential. But there's no telling when the next Kobe-quality player comes on board here, none. We could be incredibly fortunate in next year's draft, or work out a deal for Kevin Durant, or simply miss out on the next GOAT contender forever. No way to know. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: |
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You could double or perhaps even triple that time frame from just 10 years and you'd still have a relatively large majority voting "True"....
.... just think about where Kobe ranks among all-time greats and then consider how many people at that level have been a Laker player over the history of the NBA and keep in mind we are talking about the most successful sports franchise in not only basketball but virtually all-sports.... still with all this in mind, the odds are very long indeed that the Lakers franchise will have both the combination of luck first of all as well as secondly the front office skill to acquire a player at the super-star level of a Kobe Bryant type of player in the next 20 years much less 10....
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Voices wrote: |
Because of the new CBA it will be next to impossible to make a trade to get another KAJ or other all time great player, so don't anyone hold their breath, . |
Why is it next to impossible? In the three years since the last CBA went into place, the following guys have switched teams: Lebron James, Dwight Howard (twice), Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kevin Love,
That's half of last year's first and second all-NBA team, so superstars certainly still are traded or leave as free agents. |
LJ and Dwight were not traded, Joe Johnson and Harden are not superstars, Love was traded but the T Wolves got great return for Love, they traded a borderline superstar for potential superstar talent. CP3 is the only one on your list that was truly traded for potentially less return.
The Lakers have nothing to trade with and there is no superstar demanding that they play for the Lakers. Again, because of the new CBA it makes it very difficult to acquire a FA superstar and to trade for one unless you have assets to trade with. |
Howard was traded - to us. He didn't resign with us, but he was traded. And Lebron was actually traded to the Heat (after he made it clear he would leave anyway). Love was traded too.
Whether we have the assets to make a trade is a differently issue than whether such trades can be made under the CBA. If you're only saying the Lakers won't get a superstar in a trade in exchange for crap, sure, why would you expect us to get a superstar in exchange for crap? |
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