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| Pre-Achilles kobe is likely the best Laker we will have for the next 10 years? |
| True |
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85% |
[ 91 ] |
| False |
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14% |
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| Total Votes : 107 |
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youcantguardme
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| If you are 30 now, it might be when your grandkids are turn 30. Thats if the Lakers are lucky. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Considering this is a bias topic, I think they have that guy now, Randle. A guy who can be a top 5 player in the league after 3-4 seasons and maintain that for a decade. |
Randle is a "guy who can be a top 5 player in the league" ?
I don't think he can.
You complained about poll bias but you also tried to bend the poll narrative to suit your own bias too.
A top five player is still not a Kobe Bryant equivalent level player, now is it ?
Kobe's been a first team all-NBA guy eleven times. A league MVP. A two-time Finals MVP. Has four scoring titles.
There's a marked level of accomplishment between what the poll is written to elucidate and what you asserted is possible for young Randle.
That aside, I seriously doubt Randle has a better chance than probably 50 or so current players and another thirty incoming players to the league over the next five years. I sure don't see Randle ever garnering multiple selections to first team all-NBA, frankly. |
An example why a thread like this depends on a poster's bias. What is a Kobe Bryant equivalent player? Ask 10 posters and get 10 different answers. Depends on their bias since the OP does not define it. I see Kobe as a top 5 player for a good part of his career, and wouldn't be surprised to see Randle as that as well.
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Steve007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Considering this is a bias topic, I think they have that guy now, Randle. A guy who can be a top 5 player in the league after 3-4 seasons and maintain that for a decade. |
Randle is a "guy who can be a top 5 player in the league" ?
I don't think he can.
You complained about poll bias but you also tried to bend the poll narrative to suit your own bias too.
A top five player is still not a Kobe Bryant equivalent level player, now is it ?
Kobe's been a first team all-NBA guy eleven times. A league MVP. A two-time Finals MVP. Has four scoring titles.
There's a marked level of accomplishment between what the poll is written to elucidate and what you asserted is possible for young Randle.
That aside, I seriously doubt Randle has a better chance than probably 50 or so current players and another thirty incoming players to the league over the next five years. I sure don't see Randle ever garnering multiple selections to first team all-NBA, frankly. |
An example why a thread like this depends on a poster's bias. What is a Kobe Bryant equivalent player? Ask 10 posters and get 10 different answers. Depends on their bias since the OP does not define it. I see Kobe as a top 5 player for a good part of his career, and wouldn't be surprised to see Randle as that as well. |
You only see Kobe as a top 5 player for much of his career? Which players were better than him? I'm guessing you will say Duncan, Shaq until maybe around 2003-2004 (which means Kobe was better than him after those years), Lebron around 2006-2007 and after that, and who else? That sounds more like top 2 or top 3, or even better because many will argue over all 3 of those guys being ranked higher than him.
I can't think of anyone else that you might say is better then him? KG? Nowitzki? I don't think those guys were ever THAT great, as great as they were.
I think it makes more sense to compare Kobe to Magic instead of comparing Randle to Kobe. |
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FlyingSpur
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:26 am Post subject: |
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it takes a certain situation to create a player like Kobe.
and in todays NBA the only player i see who got the situation to be like kobe and will be a laker in the future is Wiggin.
the guy is a direwolf |
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Cup-of-noodles
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Joined: 07 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Once in a lifetime |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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In my lifetime, I've seen the following top 10-12 players (my own list):
Magic, MJ, KAJ, Bird, LBJ, Kobe, LBJ, Duncan just to name a few.
The chances Lakers get another one may be slim, but it's not impossible to see a Kobe-level player in the NBA the next 10-15 years. We saw LBJ/Duncan/Kobe follow the MJ era.
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C M B
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
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When Kobe was acquired, the Lakers were rich with the collective human genius, ethic, and reputations of Jerry West, Jerry Buss, Bill Sharman, Jack Kent Cooke, and Chick Hearn. This intellectual prosperity, enhanced by fortuitous circumstances, old fashioned know-how, brand quality, and the lure of playing Los Angeles, is what brought a force like Kobe Bryant to the organization. Today all of those people are now dead or are no longer affiliated with the organization and any residual benefit from their work is evaporating quickly. If any titans are to ever play here again it will have to come from the allowances of the current CBA, the creativity of Mitch Kupchak, and an organization's ability to inhibit the effects of any interference by Jerry Buss' stunted offspring. It's going to be a long time.
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AshesToAshes
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: |
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can't believe this topic is being discussed with names like LBJ and duncan.
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Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Voices wrote: |
Because of the new CBA it will be next to impossible to make a trade to get another KAJ or other all time great player, so don't anyone hold their breath, . |
Why is it next to impossible? In the three years since the last CBA went into place, the following guys have switched teams: Lebron James, Dwight Howard (twice), Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kevin Love,
That's half of last year's first and second all-NBA team, so superstars certainly still are traded or leave as free agents. |
LJ and Dwight were not traded, Joe Johnson and Harden are not superstars, Love was traded but the T Wolves got great return for Love, they traded a borderline superstar for potential superstar talent. CP3 is the only one on your list that was truly traded for potentially less return.
The Lakers have nothing to trade with and there is no superstar demanding that they play for the Lakers. Again, because of the new CBA it makes it very difficult to acquire a FA superstar and to trade for one unless you have assets to trade with. |
Howard was traded - to us. He didn't resign with us, but he was traded. And Lebron was actually traded to the Heat (after he made it clear he would leave anyway). Love was traded too.
Whether we have the assets to make a trade is a differently issue than whether such trades can be made under the CBA. If you're only saying the Lakers won't get a superstar in a trade in exchange for crap, sure, why would you expect us to get a superstar in exchange for crap? |
We got Dwight because he forced the trade, Lakers management did that trade even though Dwight said he did not want to play for the Lakers, Lakers management did not listen and Dwight took a pay cut to play somewhere else, the Lakers got nothing for him in return.
Sure Love was traded, but like I said he forced the trade, but Minny got good return for him, it could workout for both teams.
The Lakers had the cap room but could not sign Carmelo or LJ why? Carmelo was not going to take a pay cut (because of the CBA ) to play for the Lakers that have a poor team, and James could absorb the pay cut to go back home and play for a team that has potential to win big, and if the Lakers did not pay Kobe all that money, maybe, just maybe the Lakers could of signed both Carmelo and LJ because they would have instantly made the Lakers a contender when you add Kobe into the equation.
Not only does the new CBA make it harder to trade players, Laker management has not done a good job with the assets we had, we got nothing for Dwight or Gasol, and traded everything including the kitchen sink for Nash.
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Last edited by Voices on Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | | can't believe this topic is being discussed with names like LBJ and duncan. |
Why's that? The question is whether the Lakers (and the NBA) will see a player of Kobe's caliber soon. My answer is that it's possible. People have differences about the historical place of Kobe/Duncan/LBJ, but all 3 are firmly in my top 10 as of now.
And people were saying the same thing in 1999 when Jordan retired. But then Kobe emerged, Duncan became the best big man for nearly a decade, and Lebron has now jumped into the discussion. Not really that controversial.
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Voices
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Voices wrote: |
Because of the new CBA it will be next to impossible to make a trade to get another KAJ or other all time great player, so don't anyone hold their breath, . |
Why is it next to impossible? In the three years since the last CBA went into place, the following guys have switched teams: Lebron James, Dwight Howard (twice), Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, James Harden, Kevin Love,
That's half of last year's first and second all-NBA team, so superstars certainly still are traded or leave as free agents. |
LJ and Dwight were not traded, Joe Johnson and Harden are not superstars, Love was traded but the T Wolves got great return for Love, they traded a borderline superstar for potential superstar talent. CP3 is the only one on your list that was truly traded for potentially less return.
The Lakers have nothing to trade with and there is no superstar demanding that they play for the Lakers. Again, because of the new CBA it makes it very difficult to acquire a FA superstar and to trade for one unless you have assets to trade with. |
Howard was traded - to us. He didn't resign with us, but he was traded. And Lebron was actually traded to the Heat (after he made it clear he would leave anyway). Love was traded too.
Whether we have the assets to make a trade is a differently issue than whether such trades can be made under the CBA. If you're only saying the Lakers won't get a superstar in a trade in exchange for crap, sure, why would you expect us to get a superstar in exchange for crap? |
We got Dwight because he forced the trade, Lakers management did that trade even though Dwight said he did not want to play for the Lakers, Lakers management did not listen and Dwight took a pay cut to play somewhere else, the Lakers got nothing for him in return.
Sure Love was traded, but like I said he forced the trade, but Minny got good return for him, it could workout for both teams.
The Lakers had the cap room but could not sign Carmelo or LJ why? Carmelo was not going to take a pay cut ( partially because of the CBA ) to play for the Lakers that have a poor team, and James could absorb the pay cut to go back home and play for a team that has potential to win big, and if the Lakers did not pay Kobe all that money, maybe, just maybe the Lakers could of signed both Carmelo and LJ because they would have instantly made the Lakers a contender when you add Kobe into the equation.
Not only does the new CBA make it harder to trade players, Laker management has not done a good job with the assets we had, we got nothing for Dwight or Gasol, and traded everything including the kitchen sink for Nash. |
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe Andrew Wiggins when rookie contract is up... pair him up with Randle... and 40 yr old Kobe |
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fadeaway3
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| How long before the Bulls get another MJ, or the Celtics another Russell? When you frame the question in that manner you'll realize how crazy talented KB really is. I would not be surprise if we never get anyone to match the likes of KB. Overpaid or not, cherish the last few seasons you can because it will be over soon. |
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fadeaway3
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| AshesToAshes wrote: | | can't believe this topic is being discussed with names like LBJ and duncan. |
I agree LBJ is not on Kobe's level but I think you are under valuing Duncan. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Considering this is a bias topic, I think they have that guy now, Randle. A guy who can be a top 5 player in the league after 3-4 seasons and maintain that for a decade. |
Randle is a "guy who can be a top 5 player in the league" ?
I don't think he can.
You complained about poll bias but you also tried to bend the poll narrative to suit your own bias too.
A top five player is still not a Kobe Bryant equivalent level player, now is it ?
Kobe's been a first team all-NBA guy eleven times. A league MVP. A two-time Finals MVP. Has four scoring titles.
There's a marked level of accomplishment between what the poll is written to elucidate and what you asserted is possible for young Randle.
That aside, I seriously doubt Randle has a better chance than probably 50 or so current players and another thirty incoming players to the league over the next five years. I sure don't see Randle ever garnering multiple selections to first team all-NBA, frankly. |
An example why a thread like this depends on a poster's bias. What is a Kobe Bryant equivalent player? Ask 10 posters and get 10 different answers. Depends on their bias since the OP does not define it. I see Kobe as a top 5 player for a good part of his career, and wouldn't be surprised to see Randle as that as well. |
You only see Kobe as a top 5 player for much of his career? Which players were better than him? I'm guessing you will say Duncan, Shaq until maybe around 2003-2004 (which means Kobe was better than him after those years), Lebron around 2006-2007 and after that, and who else? That sounds more like top 2 or top 3, or even better because many will argue over all 3 of those guys being ranked higher than him.
I can't think of anyone else that you might say is better then him? KG? Nowitzki? I don't think those guys were ever THAT great, as great as they were.
I think it makes more sense to compare Kobe to Magic instead of comparing Randle to Kobe. |
I am guessing Magic won't be suiting up in the near future while Randle will. I am not sure what your post has to do with the topic.
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| ^You said Randle could be the next Kobe because Kobe was only a top 5 player. I think Randle will not be the next Kobe because Kobe was better than you say. So who do you think was better than Kobe since you only think he was a top 5 player? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Actually I didn't say Kobe was only a top 5 player, but why let that get in the way. Posting about Magic has no bearing on this topic, his career is done. I think that Randle can be that next star who can carry the Lakers to the top and be a top 5 player in the league over a large span of his career.
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Actually I didn't say Kobe was only a top 5 player, but why let that get in the way. |
Let me refresh your memory then. Earlier you posted this:
| venturalakersfan wrote: |
An example why a thread like this depends on a poster's bias. What is a Kobe Bryant equivalent player? Ask 10 posters and get 10 different answers. Depends on their bias since the OP does not define it. I see Kobe as a top 5 player for a good part of his career, and wouldn't be surprised to see Randle as that as well. |
I can't blame you for backtracking though. Only a troll would start naming names when I asked who was better than him. The moment you realized how silly your top 5 comment was you started acting like you never said it. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Posting about Magic has no bearing on this topic, his career is done. . |
Saying his career is done has no bearing on this topic. You missed the point on Magic. Magic was the Kobe of the team before Kobe. He was the guy that led the team to titles. And he wasn't just a top 5 player. At worst he was arguably the best player. Then Kobe came along and was arguably the best player. This thread is asking when the next Laker comes along that's at the same level as those guys.
| Quote: | I think that Randle can be that next star who can carry the Lakers to the top and be a top 5 player in the league over a large span of his career
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That's not what the thread is asking. It's asking who will be the next Magic, Kobe, etc. Throw Shaq in there too if you want to. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Actually I didn't say Kobe was only a top 5 player, but why let that get in the way. |
Let me refresh your memory then. Earlier you posted this:
| venturalakersfan wrote: |
An example why a thread like this depends on a poster's bias. What is a Kobe Bryant equivalent player? Ask 10 posters and get 10 different answers. Depends on their bias since the OP does not define it. I see Kobe as a top 5 player for a good part of his career, and wouldn't be surprised to see Randle as that as well. |
I can't blame you for backtracking though. Only a troll would start naming names when I asked who was better than him. The moment you realized how silly your top 5 comment was you started acting like you never said it. |
I see reading isn't your strength, show me where I used the word "only"? And adding that word makes a big difference. And show me where I said anyone was better than Kobe, again, it isn't there. Stop imagining others are posting things that they aren't. Hell, this thread isn't even about who is better than Kobe, it is about the Laker future.
Nothing to back track about, I think Kobe was top 5 throughout most of his career. Sometimes the best, sometimes not, but usually in the top 5. If you don't think he was, then you are welcome to your opinion.
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Actually I didn't say Kobe was only a top 5 player, but why let that get in the way. |
Let me refresh your memory then. Earlier you posted this:
| venturalakersfan wrote: |
An example why a thread like this depends on a poster's bias. What is a Kobe Bryant equivalent player? Ask 10 posters and get 10 different answers. Depends on their bias since the OP does not define it. I see Kobe as a top 5 player for a good part of his career, and wouldn't be surprised to see Randle as that as well. |
I can't blame you for backtracking though. Only a troll would start naming names when I asked who was better than him. The moment you realized how silly your top 5 comment was you started acting like you never said it. |
I see reading isn't your strength, show me where I used the word "only"? And adding that word makes a big difference. . |
No it doesn't. If you thought Kobe was better than only a top 5 player you would have said top 3 or top 2 at least. I never hear people call MJ a top 5 player in the 90's, or Magic a top 5 player in the 80's. Also, you suggested that Randle is the next Kobe.
| Quote: | | And show me where I said anyone was better than Kobe, again, it isn't there. |
It's implied when you call him a top 5 player. It's not like you called him arguably the best player of the last decade.
| Quote: | | Stop imagining others are posting things that they aren't. |
I'm going by what you said and I even showed you calling him a top 5 player. Then you did it again! I'm not imagining anything because it's all right there.
| Quote: | | Nothing to back track about, I think Kobe was top 5 throughout most of his career. |
Wow, there you go again. From 2000-2012 I think he was better than that. And that means finding the next Kobe will be tougher than you say it is.
| Quote: | | Sometimes the best, sometimes not, but usually in the top 5. |
So which years was he as low as #4 or #5 and which players were better than him in those years?
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Hell, this thread isn't even about who is better than Kobe, it is about the Laker future |
I just explained it. It's about finding the next Magic, Kobe, etc. If Kobe was as bad as you say then it's not going to be as difficult as I think it is. You think we can just draft a guy like Randle and that's it. I think it's much harder than that. |
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saacman5033
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get it with the nitpicking on VLF's post. He clearly explained that it depends on how you define the question.
The statement you take issue with (for no legitimate reason I might add) is VLF stating that Kobe has been a top 5 player for most of his career. I take that to mean that most seasons Kobe had played he has had one of the 5 best seasons of players playing that year. I agree with that statement. His first few seasons and certainly his last one wouldn't make it, but certainly most years he has ranked as one of the top 5 players in the league. Some years he's been closer to or at #1 and some years he's been closer to #5 in terms of production, but I agree that for most seasons of his career Kobe has been a top 5 player.
Now do I think that Randle will be a top 5 player in the league more seasons than not? Hell no, but I'm willing to let VLF dream! |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| saacman5033 wrote: | I don't get it with the nitpicking on VLF's post. He clearly explained that it depends on how you define the question.
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Is the question so unclear that it could lead a reasonable person to conclude that Randle could be the next Kobe?
| Quote: | | The statement you take issue with (for no legitimate reason I might add) is VLF stating that Kobe has been a top 5 player for most of his career. I take that to mean that most seasons Kobe had played he has had one of the 5 best seasons of players playing that year. I agree with that statement. His first few seasons and certainly his last one wouldn't make it, but certainly most years he has ranked as one of the top 5 players in the league. Some years he's been closer to or at #1 and some years he's been closer to #5 in terms of production, but I agree that for most seasons of his career Kobe has been a top 5 player. |
The only reason that I agree with much of this is injuries and age really started to take their toll on Kobe around 2008-2009. But at his peak I think he was the best. And at other times he was second best in my opinion. But personally, I would never rank him #4 or lower when he was tearing up the league and scoring 81 points in a game, and 60 in another game, etc.
Even if someone thinks Randle will consistently be a top 5 player, that doesn't mean he is going to play at the same level as a prime Kobe. For Randle to be the next Magic/Kobe/etc. he would need to have seasons that make him look like the #1 player in the league. That's a higher standard than being in the top 5 every year. |
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